August 30, 2006
Armored Vehicle Experts: Reuters News Vehicle Not Hit By Israeli Missile
There has been quite a bit of debate in the blogosphere surrounding
this story (note: link has been deactivated) of several days ago:
An Israeli air strike hit a Reuters vehicle in Gaza City on Saturday, wounding two journalists as they covered a military incursion, doctors and residents said.
One of the Palestinian journalists, who worked for a local media organization, was seriously wounded. A cameraman working for Reuters was knocked unconscious in the air strike, one of several in the area.
The Israeli army said the vehicle was hit because it was acting suspiciously in an area of combat and had not been identified as belonging to the media.
"During the operation, there was an aerial attack on a suspicious vehicle that drove in a suspicious manner right by the forces and in between the Palestinian militant posts," army spokeswoman Captain Noa Meir said.
"This car was not identified by the army as a press vehicle," she said. "If journalists were hurt, we regret it."
Despite the Israeli acknowledgement that they did fire on a "suspicious vehicle," bloggers were inherently suspicious of the story due to apparently staged and in some cases definitively falsified information provided by Arab news stringers and photojournalists in the recent Israeli-Hezbollah War. Some were quick to cast doubts on the veracity of the story.
Other bloggers, notably AllahPundit, Ace of Spades and Dan Riehl cautioned that we should resist jumping on the "Pallywood" bandwagon without having support for the claims being made.
I wanted support to prove or disprove these allegations, and so I went to the people who should know most about the kind of vehicles damaged in the attack, armored vehicle manufacturers themselves.
I sent an email to these five armored vehicle manufacturers, asking them to look at the photo (above) that seems to be the center of the debate, and asked them two questions:
- Is this damage consistent with what you might expect from a 70MM rocket's warhead detonating roughly a foot above an civilian-manufactured armored vehicle such as the one pictured? If not, would you expect more damage, or less?
- People suspicious of the attack are citing the obvious rust around the impact site on the vehicle as proof that these are old markings, while the expert claims that vehicles can rust in this kind of climate in the short time mentioned. Does that sound logical, or would alloys used in civilian armored vehicles take longer to show this level of rust? Would you provide an estimate of how long it would take?
Within an hour, I had responses from representatives of two armored vehicle manufacturing companies.
David Khazanski of Inkas Armored Vehicle Manufacturing responded first, stating:
Looking at the picture received through the link on your email, the damage on the vehicle was sustained very long time ago and probably not by the rocket, or it was already tempered [sic] with[.]
In no uncertain terms, Mr. Khazankski doubts that the vehicle was damaged recently, or by rocket fire, and suggests that the vehicle may have been tampered with.
Chris Badsey, chairman and CEO of First Defense International Group, which has armored vehicles deployed in the Middle East and has professional knowledge of Israeli weaponry, graciously offered up a very detailed analysis of the vehicle in the photo above (minor spelling errors corrected):
1.) Firstly as an armouring company we are familiar with all weapons, weapons damage, collateral damage and the destruction of armoured vehicles from blasts and various types of rockets and ammunition.
2.) Secondly we are familiar with the Israeli weapons of choice and uses in the field as we continue to work with them and have a manufacturing relationship with them both in Israel and Iraq.
3.) Whether the Reuters vehicle was attacked by who I could not verify but In my expert opinion the damage, the hole is NOT consistent of a Hellfire Missile or a 70mm rocket nor any armoured piercing bullet/trajectory.
4.) The Reuters armoured van would only be armoured to threat level IV which would consist of 8mm of High Hard 4140 Steel armouring on the roof which you can see in the picture as peeled open somewhat. The damage to the roof looks to me very consistent with possible shrapnel penetration from an object other than a rocket or missile itself.
5.) Furthermore the armored glass would be 62mm for threat level IV protection against blasts and armour piercing rounds. The damage to the back window is certainly NOT consistent with any missile, bomb, rocket blast that would have occurred on impact if a rocket was fired around and directly at the vehicle.
Mr. Badsey went on to bring up a point that few of us seemed to have considered, and that is the primary blast effect involved in any explosive projectile used against an armored vehicle.
There are essential four kinds of blast effects (mechanisms) related to the detonation of any explosive device on the human body, and the first three carry over to the kind of damage we should expect warheads to have on vehicles.
They are:
- primary: Unique to high-order explosives; results from the impact of the overpressurization wave with body surfaces ;
- secondary: Results from flying debris and bomb fragments;
- tertiary: Results when bodies
are thrown by blast wind; - quaternary: All explosion-related injuries, illnesses, or diseases not due to primary, secondary, or tertiary mechanisms; includes exacerbation or complications of existing conditions
The vehicle in the picture above shows only very minor damage that some allege are consistent with the secondary, or shrapnel effect of a warhead detonating in close proximity. But a vehicle either hit by or suffering a near miss from a helicopter warhead would also sustain major primary blast damage, as shown below.
The photo above is of one of First Defense International Group's armored Ford Expeditions which was heavily damaged by an IED blast near Baghdad, Iraq. Note how the vehicle has been heavily dented by the blast. Teh hood is crumpled and the bumbers are destroyed. All bulletproof windows have been heavily damaged, with the left rear glass completely imploded (to FDI's credit, there were no casualties).
The Reuter's vehicle, however seems to show far less damage than one may expect. The sheet metal is not damaged, and the spider-webbing of the windshield would seem to be the only damage to the vehicle's glass. If a warhead detonated on or within feet of this vehicle as seems to be the claim, Mr. Badsey would have expected far more damage, what one word did he use to describe what we should see of this vehicle?
"Pieces."
It was preceded by the words, "nothing left but."
I then forwarded this link to Mr. Badsey, and asked him if what he saw was consistent with the kind of damage he might expect from a 70MM rocket explosion above the vehicle as an intelligence expert opined to Allah at Hotair.com.
He responded:
There is clearly no blast damage internally and only from some object inconsistent with any rocket or missile attack. I'm unable to see any burn or secondary explosion or markings from the picture so apologize for not been 100% able to see from this picture.
A 70mm rocket has certain features and destructive mechanisms that are not consistent in either pictures especially on entry and internal damage from what you have shown me.
The inside is too intact including the upholstery for this type of ammunition detonation on impact. It looks as if the armor was penetrated by probably flying shrapnel. Not consistent with missiles or rockets of any kind
And so here we stand, weighing conflicting stories.
Reuters says they were fired upon, and Israel agrees that they fired at a suspicious vehicle, but two armored vehicle experts state that the damage to this Reuters vehicle is not even close to being consistent with what they would expect from Israeli rockets or missiles. The first expert, Mr. Khazanski, indicated that he thinks the damage on the roof was sustained a "long time ago."
From what these experts tell me, it does not appear that the vehicle Reuters claimed was hit was hit by either a rocket or a missile, that the damage appears to be from some time prior to the attack, but that the damage may be consistent with shrapnel from something else.
Something damaged this Reuters armored vehicle, but when and how seems to be very much in doubt.
Update: Allah has another photo... no rust. that would possibly rule out the the damage being old, but what precisely hit the vehicle is still up in the air.
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1
Looked at Allah's photo. I am not sure that there has not been a replacement of rust with a dark gray. Possible? I don't know, not my area of expertise. But if that is primer, would it rust? It doesn't look like bare metal.
Posted by: Loren at August 30, 2006 02:21 PM (sIRhH)
2
I can't believe everyone is missing the completely different color of the ambulance. Whats the correct color? The allah shot is at night and the vehicle is very white and the reds are off. The daylight shot shows a more natural white and next to it a very bright white cars. The night picture has incorrect white balance. The basic question here is :
Which pictures color is correct? Then we will have the answer.
Posted by: NortonPete at August 30, 2006 02:30 PM (fVuwW)
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The photo of the vehicle where the rust is "grey" is the only one taken at night, with a flash. Plug the flash picture into any photo-editing program, adjust the color balance so the white of the vehicle's exterior matches how it looks in the natural-daylight pics, and the spots that looked gray with a flash do indeed look like rust.
Posted by: hcq at August 30, 2006 02:37 PM (4vf9L)
Posted by: Bill Faith at August 30, 2006 03:12 PM (n7SaI)
5
Well, I was going to comment on the color differences, but that has been well discussed.
The interior shot with the damage is not the vehicle pictured twice (unlinked). Look at the interior damage in the windshield area and look at the front passenger door (the one missing); two different vehicles.
Now for the hole: ever notice the entrance hole made by high speed projectiles? Entrance holes are round or tubular if oblique. Metal, even armor metal hit by a high speed projectile like a Hydra 70 rocket would have a round entrance hole. Any explosion would have occurred inside so there would be interior explosion damage (swelling out of panels, glass blown out, etc.)
Tearing occurs when a mass moving at slow velocity contacts the metal, like a sledge hammer or chunk of flying concrete debris from a larger explosion (say perhaps a HELLFIRE or artillery round hitting a building nearby). The damage is definitely not characteristic of Hydra 70 rocket and definitely not characteristic of a HELLFIRE (the high explosive variant, not the anti-armor variant).
I submit the truth will probably never be known.
Posted by: Old Soldier at August 30, 2006 06:22 PM (owAN1)
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Methinks there was dust on the rust:
http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2006_08_27.html#005980
And darn you, Bob, and your quick-responding armor experts!
Posted by: See-Dubya at August 30, 2006 06:34 PM (UodmQ)
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I am no expert but I have a sneaking suspicion that when David Khazanski said tempered he actually meant tempered and not tampered as you have so helpfully suggested.
Posted by: Dicko at August 30, 2006 06:34 PM (+rGR2)
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A little something else to put into the mix. The "rust" could be nothing more than the primer under the paint. In the U.S. we use mainly grey primer but also the "rust red" primer.
I have seen three photos of this vehicle. In two, the area around the hole is discolored red, in one it is discolored grey.
Photoshopping, development variations or just different lighting will change colors slightly in photos. I opt that this discoloration is primer exposed when the paint was knocked off by "something".
That something could be shrapnel, an earlier accident where something fell on the roof or prehaps an Alien weapon of some kind.
But in the end it makes no difference, the Arab PR dept. has convinced almost all Arabs that the Jews were trying to kill their Journalists.
Score another for the Arab Media, the same one's that Rummy is worried about.
He has good reason to worry.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Posted by: Papa Ray at August 30, 2006 06:51 PM (B6ERo)
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Dicko - Highly doubtful, considering the context and the fact that "tempered with" doesn't make sense.
Posted by: FzxGkJssFrk at August 30, 2006 06:56 PM (GNCtp)
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"Dicko - Highly doubtful, considering the context and the fact that "tempered with" doesn't make sense."
What a lame response, brushing over the story by way of attention to a typo. In your heart are you trying to demonstrate the utmost imbecility?
Posted by: Dom at August 30, 2006 07:37 PM (ykuo9)
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New rust is orange and uneven , old rust is red and everywhere.
I wish I could form a better song to those who bewhere...
Perhaps....
Rust Never Sleeps...
I work with metal of all types all day...
Posted by: NortonPete at August 30, 2006 07:41 PM (fVuwW)
12
Dom - were you talking to me or Dicko? I was responding to Dicko's comment, not CY's post. To be clear, I think it's highly doubtful that David Khazanski meant "tempered with". "Tampered with" makes much more sense, as CY inferred. I agree with CY's interpretation.
Posted by: FzxGkJssFrk at August 30, 2006 10:35 PM (1dTef)
13
You can see that the rust is not that comprehensive. unlike the ambulance and that it has a greyish to yellowish tone in some places where oxidation is not complete.
The edges of the paintwork or sticker for the word 'press' is raised and jagged, so is recent. The paint seems, but is hard to determine, seems to have been subjected to heat and faint staining may be present.
The metal of the hole is a tear and not a puncture. it is got characteristics with pressing down in a concentrated area untill it gives usually tearing along three points that make a triangle.
At a guess to me... Ummm Mortar round, small one. Someone was taking potshots fer a joke and got a hit by the looks. Give the journo's a shake up. lol nearly got em killed.
Posted by: j hansford at August 31, 2006 12:16 AM (rBX4j)
14
The journo's would've seen and heard choppers buzzin' about,as per usual. They would've been proceeding down a road and a sedate pace so as not to alarm anyone.
next second. Flash, Bang. Blood noses ruptured ear drums, woosh of hot air and stinging fragments, but mainly spurling and only small.
The first thought is, bang on roof plus helicopters. Awww the helicopter guy woz th' one wot did it. It wozzz him it tells ya!!!
But giggling and guffawin' away in a firing possition 2000 to 3000 meters away is a mortar team either Hezb' or Israeli, pissing themselves that they are soooo baaad, but ohhhh sooo goood LoL.
The road would've been all ranged in so its only their judgment that is good. But hats off, if it is like I've completely surmised. Damn fine shot!!
Posted by: j hansford at August 31, 2006 12:42 AM (rBX4j)
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Here is a question I have not yet seen posed (except by me, because I keep asking!!). Who filmed the "injured" "victims" being rushed to the hospital? It wasn't the victims themselves, who were dutifully posed in full-tragic status (one having borrowed a slightly-bloodied jacket to wear over his pristine-white T-shirt). It wasn't with the victim's video camera, which was proudly displayed as covered in blood. How convenient was it that other camera crews were standing by? And, how convenient was it that there were at least TWO crews, and still photographers, waiting at the hospital for the dramatic arrival footage.
One other point. Look at the seats. They are, except for the blood, pristine. No holes at all. This rules out shrapnel, or pretty much anything except intentionally inflicted damage to the dash -- maybe someone was trying to steal the car radio.
Okay, one more point. The Reuters report said that the cameraman reported "FIRE" (in all caps, no less). But, there is absolutely nothing burned in the nicely-white-painted vehicle.
Just another day on the set in Paliwood. But, as I have said before, faked pics are only news if they make Katie Couric look thinner.
Posted by: Watergate at August 31, 2006 01:53 AM (BC1Xw)
16
FzxGkJssFrk,
I misunderstood. I didn't realise you were addressing anyone in particular and thought you were just trashing the story. Sorry for the wildly inappropriate insult! And Dicko is a lovely name.
Dom
Posted by: Dom at August 31, 2006 08:04 AM (BKtXQ)
17
Dom - Apology accepted, no harm done.
Posted by: FzxGkJssFrk at August 31, 2006 09:41 AM (DYedO)
18
Just some more crap by the arab media.
YW Editor.
Posted by: YW Editor at August 31, 2006 11:02 AM (5MQer)
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August 29, 2006
Will Thoretz Watch, Day One
Will Thoretz is the company spokesman for VNU Media, the company that owns
Editor & Publisher and employs Editor Greg Mitchell, a man that has something of a "
truth problem" according to Michael Silence, and seems to be on the wrong side of an example of "
journalistic malpractice" according to Stephen Spruiell.
Mary Katharine Ham of Townhall.com attempted to contact Mitchell at Editor & Publisher for comment several times yesterday, but Mitchell has thus far decline to respond. Ham also tried to contact Will Thoretz of Editor & Publisher's parent company, VNU Media, and while she was able to speak to his assistant, Thoretz has not responded to Ham to date.
Color me skeptical, but evidence indicating that one of your editors has severe ethical issues should demand an immediate response of some sort, unless, of course, the decision has been made to stonewall the story and hope it goes away.
Hopeing that this would not turn out to be the case, I sent the following email to Mr. Thoretz moments ago, hoping to spur him to action:
Dear Will Thoretz,
My name is Bob Owens, and I am the blogger that noticed Greg Mitchell's 2003 editorial admitting that he manufactured elements of a story as a young reporter, was suddenly changed within hours of my having linked it. I also know that you have been contacted by Mary Katharine Ham of Townhall.com regarding the unacknowledged and unethical rewrite of the 2003 column, a rewrite apparently designed to cast Mr. Mitchell in a more favorable light.
I have also noticed that while the article now features a correction to the timeline elements that Mitchell got wrong, it still includes elements of the rewrite (specifically the new addition of the phrase "as a summer intern" which did not exist before 4:00 PM Friday, Aug 26).
I would like to ask why this article has not been restored to the 2003 form in which it has existed for over three years until an unfavorable light was cast on Mitchell's admitted journalistic fraud, and why these changed elements are allowed to still exist without an acknowledgement that such changes took place.
The self-serving rewrite of Mr. Mitchell's column has been described as "journalistic malpractice," and I think the public has a right to know how this happened, who was responsible, and what policies will be put in place by VNU Media to keep such incidents from occurring in the future.
To date, I have noticed that Mr. Mitchell seems to be ducking phone calls from Ms. Ham, and you have not (to the best of my knowledge) responded to her either. I certainly hope that an effort to "stonewall" this issue is not underway, as that would be quite counterproductive to all concerned.
All it takes is a simple look to the server logs to conclusively identify who rewrote Mitchell's 2003 column late this past Friday afternoon. An even application of the kind of company policies I expect in any large media organization against this kind of unethical behavior should provide the remedy.
Please let me know what steps VNU Media intends to take to resolve this matter.
Thank you very much for your time.
Respectfully,
I certainly hope Mr. Thoretz and VNU Media will choose to publicly respond to this issue sooner rather than later. By now, they should know that the longer things linger the more time people have to dig, and the worse things get, day by day.
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August 28, 2006
Editor & Publisher's Evolving Implosion
This past Friday afternoon, an unscrupulous revision to a forgotten three year-old editorial by Greg Mitchell became the bomb that threatens to blow apart
Editor & Publisher, a media industry trade publication, and it's parent company,
VNU Media.
Mitchell wrote a two part editorial last week, "In Defense of War Photographers," attacking bloggers for exposing Reuters news photographers as the author of two faked photos, and calling into question other events bloggers felt were possibly staged.
I hypothesized on Friday that Mitchell's stirring defense of the suspected fakers might have arisen from his own past as someone who has admitted staging the news in a 2003 editorial.
The story should have died right there, but then, in a surprisingly stupid and petty act, someone with access to Mitchell's editorial decided to change the lede of the editorial to paint Mitchell in a more favorable light. Someone at Editor & Publisher was rewriting history within hours of unwanted attention cast upon the editorial by a handful of blogs.
Suddenly, the sleepy little editorial that had lain dormant for three years had detonated into charges of "journalistic malpractice" and calls for Mitchell to resign. Surely, someone who represents an industry trade publication as its editor must be held to the same standards as other journalists, if not higher standards.
And so while other fact errors in Mitchell's editorial have been addressed, Editor & Publisher pointedly refuse to even mention the blatant rewrite of the column's lede that suddenly brought this sleepy editorial back to the nation's attention.
Editor & Publisher and Greg Mitchell could easily defuse an increasingly volatile situation by simply admitting that Mitchell "tweaked" the article because he wanted to write off his fraud as a youthful indiscretion, but instead of taking a small bite of well-deserved crow, it seems Editor & Publisher and their parent company, VNU Media, may attempt instead to act as if nothing ever happened, and hope that the storm will pass without them having to admit their ever-compounding errors in judgement.
Mary Katharine Ham is trying to reach Mitchell at Editor and Publisher for comment, but so far has had no luck. I think she should try Will Thoretz, VNU's company spokesman instead. It seems that sooner rather than later that this particular ball will be in his court as Mitchell continues to hope that his fradulent past and present won't catch up to him.
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1
I've been following this off and on, so excuse me if this comment is redundant - but has anyone informed Mr. Mitchell that at no time in 1967 did the water stop pouring over Niagra Falls? It actually occured in 1969. Linkeroo: www.coolquiz.com/trivia/canada/niagra.asp
Now, I would imagine that this two year descrepancy between Mitchell's recollection and recorded history would be pretty easy to verify, considering the original article probably had a date to attach to it. It just seems like this would all be pretty easy to verify if someone could find the original article.
Posted by: shank at August 28, 2006 01:25 PM (+H1yK)
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Excuse me? Am I missing something? That someone made a mistake remembering an event from 35+ years ago and then corrects it when someone points out the mistake, is evidence of what?
And what does it show about your integrity when you bold and link to charges of 'staging the news' and 'calls for resignation' and they are links only to charges you've made?
Confederacy of Dunces is right.
Posted by: Ed at August 28, 2006 01:30 PM (yfKhZ)
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Why do I care? Its an editorial. An opinion expressed by a writer. Not a factual news story. Its VNU's content. Why can't they change it every 5 seconds from now until the end of time? Online venues do it all the time. USAToday, WaPo, NYT, WSJ, etc.
This is so SOP, you don't like the message so attack the messenger. Big deal. He changed an editorial from 3 years ago. Where's the drama everytime a blogger adds an update to their blog "tweaking" the contents? A blog is an opinion of someone. An editorial is the same thing, different medium.
Posted by: matt a at August 28, 2006 01:35 PM (GvAmg)
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Ed,
the issue of whether or not someone remembers the events of so long ago is irrlevant; it matters not at all to the issue at hand as far as I am concerned. The issue is that
someone decided to edit Mitchell's 3-year-old editorial to cast him in a more favorable light within hours of it being brought back to the public's attention. It was and is a clear attempt to rewrite the past, and a breach of journalistic ethics.
That Mitchell or someone acting in his steady is willing to rewrite such a minor story in an attempt to mitigate their personal failings indicates that journalistic ethics have been abandoned in favor of "feel good" journalism.
I'm sorry if you could not take the time to click on the link back to the home page and read the several posts on the subject leading up to this one, but that is a sign of your intellectual laziness on your part, not an issue of integity on mine. Anyone with any questions cold easily read about the entire issue on this site if they had the least amount of curiosity; you obviously would rather whine and run.
matt a,
Online news sources can and do add to news stories as they evolve, and when they do, they show the date and time when the post was last updated. they do this at USAToday, WaPo, NYT, WSJ, and any other source you would like to cite. Even blogs--at least most of the more criedibly ones--post clear updates when they change or add to their stories, as I do here.
Mitchell's editorial dishonestly states it has not been updated since being published on May 20, 2003. Mitchell admitted to committing fraud once as a journalist, and committed another ethical violation when he changed the article admitting that three years later, to cast himself in a more favorable light and try to deflect criticism.
Why do I only have to explain the concept of ethics to liberals?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 28, 2006 02:08 PM (g5Nba)
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CY - Nice non-answer. Notice how you didn't respond to his article, simply started the attacks. Must be amazing to be perfect. BTW, is this the update you are claiming wasn't there? http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030
CORRECTION, August 27, 2006: Several readers of the 2003 story below have informed us that the water flowing over Niagara Falls was turned off in June 1969, not in 1967, as the article below stated. We have corrected or deleted that date and MitchellÂ’s age where they appeared in this column. Mitchell worked at the Gazette in the summers of 1968 and 1969 before graduating from college in 1970. The incident recounted below occurred in his second summer at the paper, not in the first, as the original had it.
I know, I know, they finally acknowledged the "modification" on Sunday, 2 days after your eminently predicted "implosion" entry. So is this still an "ethics" issue now that the paper has updated the column or you just don't like being held to the same level of scrutiny you give?
Posted by: matt a at August 29, 2006 07:42 AM (GvAmg)
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matt a,
Your reading comprehension skills are simply not up to par.
The correction
in no way at all addresses the fact that Mitchell's article was reworded, unethically I made add, to cast a more favorable light on Mitchell. The correction It addresses timeline issues investigated by Dan Riehl and others that were in the original post, but refuses to even address the journalistic malpractice that has been committed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 29, 2006 08:30 AM (g5Nba)
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CY - They added 8 words, they changed some of the 8 words to other words and ran a correction. As far as you know, the first correction was a draft of the rewored article that mistakenly got published.
Again, nothing about his actual article. Just attacks. SOP.
Posted by: matt a at August 29, 2006 11:58 AM (GvAmg)
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Hoping for Transparency, But Expecting the Norm
Mary Katharine Ham has a
new column up at Townhall.com discussing the "Fauxtography" scandals and the journalistic malpractice in Greg Mitchell's 2003 column that I highlighted over the weekend.
I should hope that Editor & Publisher's parent company VNU Media follows David Perlmutter's suggested option on how to handle similar scandals:
News picture-making media organizations have two paths of possible response to this unnerving new situation. First, they can stonewall, deny, delete, dismiss, counter-slur, or ignore the problem. To some extent, this is what is happening now and, ethical consideration aside, such a strategy is the practical equivalent of taking extra photos of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The second, much more painful option, is to implement your ideals, the ones we still teach in journalism school. Admit mistakes right away. Correct them with as much fanfare and surface area as you devoted to the original image. Create task forces and investigating panels. Don't delete archives but publish them along with detailed descriptions of what went wrong. Attend to your critics and diversify the sources of imagery, or better yet be brave enough to refuse to show any images of scenes in which you are being told what to show. I would even love to see special inserts or mini-documentaries on how to spot photo bias or photo fakery—in other words, be as transparent, unarrogant, and responsive as you expect those you cover to be.
The stakes are high. Democracy is based on the premise that it is acceptable for people to believe that some politicians or news media are lying to them; democracy collapses when the public believes that everybody in government and the press is lying to them.
While Perlmutter was specifically talking about photojournalism, the same principles apply to print journalism as well. VNU Media would be wise to opt for a transparent investigation.
We should know just how seriously they value their credibility by their action or inaction later today.
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Is it possible that the vehicle was entirely rusted out, only to be painted over by Reuters hastily (w/o removing the rust), so that when it got hit, the blast simply ripped off the paint, exposing the pre-existing rust?
Posted by: Bret at August 28, 2006 11:13 AM (JHRJI)
Posted by: Bret at August 28, 2006 11:17 AM (JHRJI)
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August 27, 2006
Before and After
A
bit of three years after-the-fact editing in a 2003 Greg Mitchell editorial at
Editor & Publisher got quite a bit of attention in the blogosphere yesterday.
For those you now just coming to this story, Mitchell wrote a May, 20, 2003 article in which he admitted to faking a news story as a young reporter. Jon Ham tipped me off to the existence of the article, which led me to write this post opining that perhaps Mitchell wrote his sympathetic and spirited defenses of photojournalists accused of staging photographs precisely because he, too, had an admitted history as a fraudulent journalist.
My post, complete with a link to Mitchell's 2003 editorial, went "live" early Friday afternoon, complete with quotes pulled from Mitchell's article.
Many blogs linked the story quickly starting at 1:56 PM, and by 4:00 PM, no fewer than five other blogs had copied sections of text, including the opening paragraph. By 5:00 PM, in the course of an hour, the long-dormant story reappeared, rewritten to emphasize Mitchell's youth and inexperience.
As Mary Katharine Ham noted:
This is just so phenomenally stupid. CY rounded up all the blogs that excerpted the original article, and he has the link to the original article from the Wayback Machine. It's all there, for everyone to see. All of the incredible dishonesty. If it was pathetic to fake a story about tourists at Niagara, it's downright embarrassing to alter the confession after a couple people bring attention to it.
Stephen Spriuell, writing at National Review Online's Media Blog, says this represents journalistic malpractice, and if true, calls Mitchell's professional ethics into question.
And so as the work week begins again tomorrow, I suspect we're going to learn some lessons not only about Mitchell, but about the company Mitchell works for, VNU Business Media, and it's President and CEO, Michael Marchesano. Marchesano's site states that, "VNU Business Media takes pride in being one of the most prestigious and respected business information companies in the world."
I have no reason to doubt that, and at this point on a Sunday morning, would be quite surprised if Mr. Marchesano even knew about the potential damage to his company's reputation committed by "someone" trying to mitigate the damage to the reputation of someone who is already a self-admitted fraud.
VNU Business Media claims "45 market-leading trade magazines, 17 directories, 70 events and conferences, 65 trade shows and 165 eMedia products." We will learn tomorrow how willing they are to defend their credibility, and how transparently they choose to respond to what is a flagrant and well-documented cases of dishonesty by someone on their editorial staff. This case is easily proven by an internal audit showing precisely who updated the May 20, 2003 article between 4:00PM and 5:00 PM (Eastern) this past Friday afternoon.
The actual investigation should take less than an hour, but how VNU Business Media, Editor & Publisher, and Greg Mitchell choose to respond may affect them all for a long time to come.
Update: It might not be VNU Business Media that looks into Mitchell's apparent transgressions, but VNU eMedia, who can be contacted here. If you choose to write VNU, please respectfully ask for a review of the changes to the article, and explain who you think it warrants a review.
Update: Dan Riehl establishes that Mitchell seems to have lied about other elements of this story as well. Riehl argues Mitchell was neither nineteen, nor an intern, but 21-year-old professional journalist when he committed his first journalistic fraud. It seems Greg Mitchell has a pattern of behavior that should call his entire body of work into question.
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I'm betting E&P "responds" with silence. They are that smug.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 27, 2006 05:27 PM (+u+9/)
Posted by: Bill Faith at August 27, 2006 07:24 PM (n7SaI)
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So someone in the MSM gets caught making things up.
And this is news ?
Posted by: Actual at August 27, 2006 07:41 PM (jSipq)
4
hi....
Read Hamm's piece. Excellent research on your part. Idiocy like this is rarely reported in the main-stream, however, for obvious reasons.
Buuuuuuuuut....if only to get the word out, we should take a lesson from the Left.....
Somebody out there can probably show personal duress from said false stories. They should sue the hell out of said media, and we as conservatives should back them.
Until that happens, we will never show just how biased, and in some cases traitorous the main stream really is.
paul
Posted by: paul at August 28, 2006 03:35 AM (OaZ/u)
5
So let me get this straight, CY and others are up in arms about an editorial written 3 years ago that had 8 words added to it (nothing removed) about something that happened to the editor 27 years before that.
Where can I get in line for the mandatory efigy burning and storming of the E&P building?
Posted by: matt a at August 28, 2006 10:04 AM (GvAmg)
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August 26, 2006
The More Things Change...
Acting on a tip yesterday from Jon Ham, I wrote
this post, ripping into
Editor & Publisher editor Greg Mitchell for his guilty history of staging the news.
The story was quickly picked up in the blogosphere, including NRO's Media Blog, Instapundit, and Ace of Spades HQ.
The "meat" of the story was Greg Mitchell's 2003 admission that he had faked a minor news story in his past, and this "re-broke" after Mitchell had just written a pair of columns blasting bloggers for questioning the apparent staging and faking of news stories by the media in the recent Israeli-Hezbollah war. The article read:
Since the press seems to be in full-disclosure mode these days, I want to finally come clean. Back when I worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette), our city editor asked me to find out what tourists thought about an amazing local event: Engineers had literally "turned off" the famous cataracts, diverting water so they could shore up the crumbling rock face. Were visitors disappointed to find a trickle rather than a roar? Or thrilled about witnessing this once-in-a-lifetime stunt?
I never found out. Oh, I went down to the falls, all right, but when I got there, I discovered that I just could not wander up to strangers (even dorky ones wearing funny hats and knee socks) and ask them for their personal opinions, however innocuous. It was a puffball assignment, but that wasn't why I rebelled. I just could not bring myself to do it.
So I sat on a park bench and scribbled out a few fake notes and then went back to the office and wrote my fake story, no doubt quoting someone like Jane Smith from Seattle, honeymooning with her husband Oscar, saying something like, "Gosh, I never knew there was so much rock under there!"
Of course, I got away with it.
That was exactly the text of this article when I, Mary Katharine Ham of Townhall.com, Jeff Goldstein of Protein Wisdom, Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs, Mike of Cold Fury, and Suitably Flip cited the text of the article this afternoon.
And yet now, things have mysteriously changed within the article.
As cited by the six blogs listed in the proceeding paragraph, the opening lines of the article began:
Since the press seems to be in full-disclosure mode these days, I want to finally come clean. Back when I worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette), our city editor asked me to find out what tourists thought about an amazing local event: Engineers had literally “turned off” the famous cataracts, diverting water so they could shore up the crumbling rock face. Were visitors disappointed to find a trickle rather than a roar? Or thrilled about witnessing this once-in-a-lifetime stunt?
By 5:01 PM Eastern time, someone pasting at CY under the name Barfly, in a comment defending Mitchell, noted:
"Back when I was 19 and worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette) as a summer intern[ . . .]"
I think its hilarious how you take Greg to task - and do it in such a dishonest way! Why did you omit the part about his being an intern at the time? Did it interfere with your narrative?. . .
And Barfly was correct: the narrative had changed. It had changed to this:
Since the press seems to be in full-disclosure mode these days, I want to finally come clean. Back in 1967, when I was 19 and worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette) as a summer intern, our city editor asked me to find out what tourists thought about an amazing local event: Engineers had literally "turned off" the famous cataracts, diverting water so they could shore up the crumbling rock face. Were visitors disappointed to find a trickle rather than a roar? Or thrilled about witnessing this once-in-a-lifetime stunt?
Not sure what changed? Let's show the newly added words in bold just to make it a bit more obvious:
Since the press seems to be in full-disclosure mode these days, I want to finally come clean. Back in 1967, when I was 19 and worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette) as a summer intern, our city editor asked me to find out what tourists thought about an amazing local event: Engineers had literally "turned off" the famous cataracts, diverting water so they could shore up the crumbling rock face. Were visitors disappointed to find a trickle rather than a roar? Or thrilled about witnessing this once-in-a-lifetime stunt?
Someone substantially altered the text of the mediainfo.com story, after six different bloggers cited the article. If you type in the URL of http://www.mediainfo.com/ and press "enter" so that you could investigate who mediainfo.com belongs to, wondering how they could change such an old story so quickly, the URL will resolve to adweek.com.
Adweek is owned by VNU Business Media, the same company that runs media web sites BrandWeek, MediaWeek and--you guessed it--Editor & Publisher, where Greg Mitchell is the editor on the hotseat.
It is readily apparent that someone at Editor and Publisher has been manipulating the news a lot more recently than 1967, and if I was a corporate officer at VNU Business Media, I think I'd start my Monday morning by asking who has access rights to post and repost stories, and I'd make a thorough investigation of the server logs to see who uploaded the changes to that article Friday afternoon, sometime between 2:30 PM and 5:01 PM. I'd ask, because that someone is torpedoing my company's credibility.
When they talk to "that person," I hope they remind him that 1967 is long past, but character flaws are forever.
Update: Ed Driscoll notes that the original, unaltered article exists on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.
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Well, this is something of a bombshell. Obviously it suggests the intellectual dishonesty Greg Mitchell engaged in as a “19-year-old intern” (or staff reporter or whatever) is still very much apart of his journalistic persona.
What’s especially ironic is that E&P presents itself as being the conscious and “watchdog” of the journalistic trade or “profession.” Yet here’s an apparent example of E&P going into archival materials and making changes – without notifying readers. If true, it’s going to be fascinating to see how this plays out.
Incidentally, when E&P was covering the Sago Mine disaster in West Virginia, I noticed an online discussion (I donÂ’t remember where) between journalists about how the wording in E&PÂ’s hard-hitting stories criticizing the mediaÂ’s coverage had mysteriously changed during the day. And these changes, to be sure, apparently went beyond typos, misspellings, and that sort of thing. E&P allegedly tweaked substantive parts of its articles -- just like itÂ’s apparently done with archival material -- rather than notifying readers of clarifications or corrections.
To be sure, I donÂ’t know if my anecdote involving E&PÂ’s mine coverage is accurate. But it certainly is consistent with whatÂ’s being described in respect to the mysterious changes in MitchellÂ’s retrospective piece.
Finally, as I noted in an earlier comment, even if Mitchell was only an intern, itÂ’s highly probable he had enough journalism experience and training to know that what he was doing was wrong.
There’s a final irony here. Like many senior editors in the MSM, Mitchell came of age during the Watergate and Vietnam War eras. That’s when the word “cover-up,” among other things, became part of the journalistic lexicon. And those engaging in cover-ups of any kind -- according to the journalistic culture that sprang from that era -- were given no quarter. Now that E&P is engaging in an apparent cover-up, let’s see how much slack Mitchell’s MSM pals give him.
Posted by: dpaulin at August 26, 2006 02:47 AM (AN+Gn)
Posted by: Ed Driscoll at August 26, 2006 03:07 AM (thF07)
3
Someone substantially altered the text of the mediainfo.com story, after six different bloggers cited the article. If you type in the URL of http://www.mediainfo.com/ and press "enter" so that you could investigate who mediainfo.com belongs to, wondering how they could change such an old story so quickly, the URL will resolve to adweek.com.
It is readily apparent that someone at Editor and Publisher has been manipulating the news a lot more recently than 1967, and if I was a corporate officer at VNU Business Media, I think I'd start my Monday morning by asking who has access rights to post and repost stories, and I'd make a thorough investigation of the server logs to see who uploaded the changes to that article Friday afternoon, sometime between 2:30 PM and 5:01 PM. IÂ’d ask, because that someone is torpedoing my companyÂ’s credibility.
When they talk to "that person," I hope they remind him that 1967 is long past, but character flaws are forever."
Posted by Confederate Yankee at August 26, 2006 01:19 AM | TrackBack
So you have no proof of this "change", correct? And we're supposed to just trust that you wingers aren't covering for each other?
Here's an alternate theory: one blogger (perhaps "Jon Ham") altered the text for partisan reasons, and sent it out, and you guys ran with it. When I pointed out the discrepancy, you went into CYA mode. Since I caught the change, and not you, I could just as easily ascribe this "change" to you, as you did to someone at E&P as you have no proof. The alternative is to take you guys at your word, without proof. This stinks like a "family" cover-up, and I don't mean Greg Sargent and E&P.
Why would he include the info, after leaving it out? What purpose would it serve?
But you, your motives are crystal, buddy.
Posted by: Barfly at August 26, 2006 03:16 AM (LaWWK)
Posted by: Ed Driscoll at August 26, 2006 03:26 AM (thF07)
5
Mayhap it's time for Greg Mitchell to be exiled to the Island of Misfit Journalists along with Mary Mapes, Dan Rather, Jayson Blair, and a good chunk of Reuters' photo stringers.
There's a certain principle in law enforcement that says for evey time someone is caught doing something wrong, there were probably ten times they were not caught. Character matters quite a lot in a business based so much on trust.
Posted by: TallDave at August 26, 2006 07:11 AM (H8Wgl)
6
Barfly,
My hacking skills aren't what you imagine. I would have no idea how to get into E&P's server to change wording in a column.
I remembered that column from four years ago because it enraged me so at the time. I wrote a letter contemporaneously to Romenesko's blog about it, but no one seemed to think this was a big deal. But that's because at the time I worked for the MSM and when writing to Romenesko I was talking to the MSM, and E&P circulated only to the MSM. Talk about a closed circuit!
As for the word changes, I don't see the point. Mitchell made clear in the original (fifth graf) that he was a 19-year-old intern and I referenced that in my letter. Putting it in the lede ex post facto doesn't change much.
Anyway, this whole episode has been an instructive lesson in how the new media has changed everything.
Posted by: Jon Ham at August 26, 2006 08:04 AM (oaai4)
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Mike Wallace can learn a thing or two from Greg Mitchell.
Posted by: jay at August 26, 2006 08:20 AM (tG/yU)
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"And we're supposed to just trust that you wingers aren't covering for each other?"
Barfly: it looks like you owe them an apology. Will one be forthcoming? I doubt it.
Posted by: Charlie the Hammer at August 26, 2006 09:01 AM (F427A)
9
With the original article clearly stored in the Internet Archives, "Barfly" and Mr. Mitchell will have to back up from the "smear campaign" claims and try something else. Attacking the bloggers as Wing Nuts is no doubt one plan, which they've already started. Hard to see that that will work when anyone with a spare minute can confirm this for themselves. E&P can only pray that a bigger story will surface that will distract their critics.
But bigger than the challenge to E&P will be the challenge for the New York Times. Mr. Mitchell has been a "long time contributor" for the paper of record. I wonder what similar "skills" he's applied there? Anyone care to look?
Posted by: Regret at August 26, 2006 09:13 AM (4Rdaz)
Posted by: Patterico at August 26, 2006 09:16 AM (nzgAx)
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It's not the crime, it's the coverup. Except in this case it's the crime too.
Posted by: Barfy at August 26, 2006 09:17 AM (9dLdW)
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Coverup ?
Who does he think you are? The Edgartown police investigating an automobile accident on Chappaquiddick Island?
Posted by: Actual at August 26, 2006 09:32 AM (jSipq)
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That wasn't much of an apology, Barfly.
Posted by: Laddy at August 26, 2006 09:39 AM (4/q5L)
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Barfly:
Come on, don't apologize, dig deeper! Obviously, those right-wing ideologues at the WaybackMachine are in on the act. Google's cache--and everybody else who will have looked at the prior-to-change version is part of the conspiracy, too! Call Oliver Stone!
Posted by: A. Rickey at August 26, 2006 09:52 AM (BWWt2)
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What's new? Making up stories is part of lazy journalism practiced since Guttenburg. Its now getting more notice because of the blogging community which has become like a uncontrollable thruth serum. Of course, 3 martini journalists don't like it - why should they.
Posted by: Jack Lillywhite at August 26, 2006 09:52 AM (y0YKw)
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Laddy, if you look closely, 'Barfy' is not 'Barfly'. They even indicate different email addresses.
I think the best we can hope for is that 'Barfly' will STFU, having no sane response that can be fit into the Derangement Syndrome worldview.
Posted by: The Monster at August 26, 2006 09:52 AM (tw5mW)
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Hmmn, he was there in 1967 reporting about the Falls being turned off? I thought the Corp of Engineers did that in 1969 not 1967.
Posted by: Uncle_Walther at August 26, 2006 09:58 AM (u0+aA)
18
That doesn't sound like an apology to John Ham to me, Barfly.
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 10:04 AM (DRifx)
19
This little fracas is getting to be par for the course with Editor and Publisher. The magazine is as much about left-wing editorializing and activism as it is about media criticism.
See here:
http://blogs.rocky
mountainnews.com/denver/temple/archives/2006/08/why_editor_publ.html
And here:
http://www.inopinion.com/features/?itemid=951
And here:
http://www.inopinion.com/features/index.php?itemid=805
Posted by: David Mastio at August 26, 2006 10:13 AM (ac6h5)
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I've always wondered how the barking moonbats could support the conspiracy theories they come up with. Now ... evidence that at least one of them is a drunk and has pickled his brain.
It begins to come together.
Posted by: NahnCee at August 26, 2006 10:15 AM (p1fbb)
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1967... 1969... what's the difference?
Uncle looks to be correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagra_Falls
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 10:19 AM (DRifx)
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Barfly,
In your original comment, you thought that C.Y. had misquoted the E&P article by Mitchell, right?
Then in this thread, you wrote (8/26/06 3:16am) that a right-wing blogger might have altered the text of Mitchell's E&P article to create this kerfluffle. You mean that Jon Ham or somebody hacked E&P's site and made the text alterations illicitly and without Mitchell's or E&P's knowledge, right?
Jon Ham noted the obvious (8:04am), that it's a bit of a stretch to hang the subtle changes in the article on uberhacking feats by bloggers unaffiliated with E&P.
Then you recently commented (9:17am)
It's not the crime, it's the coverup. Except in this case it's the crime too.
I'm confused. What do you now see as the crime, and what do you think the coverup is?
Posted by: AMac at August 26, 2006 10:19 AM (GWP+/)
23
Wow, IÂ’ve heard of rewriting history, but that is a literal rewrite.
I would think that in the long run, the MSM would be grateful to bloggers, for helping them with their fact checking. ItÂ’s not like bloggers want to destroy all news agencies, but rather for them to tighten up the screws. When youÂ’re caught, you have to repent and move on. You donÂ’t get to counter accuse. I guess thatÂ’s the new definition of good journalism.
Posted by: brando at August 26, 2006 10:20 AM (K+VjK)
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Okay, am i the only person who doesn't really care. Okay, so he added that he was 19 and an intern. He added a little mitigating info. so what? At worst, he should have noted the minor change, but so long as it is true, i don't see how its a big ethical lapse to add it in.
The real headline is he has done this himself.
Posted by: A.W. of Freespeech.com at August 26, 2006 10:22 AM (ajx3n)
25
Except, A.W., it looks like he was lying about being 19 if the falls were actually turned off in 1969 as Wikipedia indicates.
What we appear to have hear is an interesting story...
Posted by: Jason Blair at August 26, 2006 10:30 AM (retis)
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off coarse, Eye mint "here". Stupdi tiepos.
Posted by: Jason Blair at August 26, 2006 10:32 AM (retis)
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The Falls were shut off in 1969, not 1967. Was this just a typo at E&P or another clumsy lie? When was Greg Mitchell born? Was he a 19 year old intern in 1969, when he fabricated the Falls story?
Posted by: Lewis at August 26, 2006 10:33 AM (hfEuj)
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The Monster wrote (9:52am):
if you look closely, 'Barfy' is not 'Barfly'. They even indicate different email addresses.
Sorry, Barf
ly, my bad at 10:19am--missed that.
I still hope you do share your current thinking on how the changes at E&P came to pass.
Posted by: AMac at August 26, 2006 10:34 AM (GWP+/)
29
A classic case of digging deeper, and an extraordinary irony. Mitchell presented the tale as a learning experience: he was only 19, an intern. As he wrote it, he must have thought how safely distant that lapse was, his position at the helm of E&P proof of how far he'd come. Who could doubt he had learned right from wrong? Changing the article, assuming Mitchell did it, suggests he would have profitted from a few more lessons in ethics, particularly given parallels with the recent photo scandals.
That old E&P article is a historical artifact, a piece of evidence, that an honest journalist would have to deal with as is. However, as in the case of the corrupt photojournalists, the evidence (text/image) that's available didn't tell quite the right story, so it had to be altered.
The change is modest, as Jon Ham points out above. It does not change the facts of the story, only the effect of the story on the reader. But it does change the fact of the story itself, and it does reveal a distrust of the reader great enough to rationalize dishonesty.
How common is this attitude among journalists? How often do well-meaning journalists rationalize dishonesty in the name of "truth"? Truth of this sort is unmoored from facts and essentially a literary effect.
Posted by: clazy at August 26, 2006 10:38 AM (BJOWr)
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What do you now see as the crime
I've submitted this case to the Kos jury for deliberation.
The charge: Criticism of an apparent leftwing moonbat who admits to "making shit up" as a journalist.
The defense: incoherant rambling and nonsense.
Verdict: Innocent by reason of being a fellow traveler ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 26, 2006 10:39 AM (+u+9/)
Posted by: spacemonkey at August 26, 2006 10:42 AM (qSKHX)
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Well... Wikipedia seems pretty certain that it was June, 1969 that the falls were turned off to work on the rock faces, not 1967.
So the question is, was Mitchell 21, not 19, when he fabricated those quotes? Anybody got access to Mitchell's DOB?
Posted by: MrJimm at August 26, 2006 10:43 AM (K4jYa)
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that was supposed to be a mathematical 'not equal' sign.
Posted by: spacemonkey at August 26, 2006 10:44 AM (qSKHX)
34
They should have put a note saying the article had been updated. So that's a little sneaky.
However--the issue itself is a non-issue. Yeah, he made a minor mistake 40 years ago!~ And he is admitting it in the article because it's relevant.
And yet the "character" death squads get called out. Absurd. How is dialogue to exist with such over-the-top over-reaction--please. Without sin, throw the first stone and all that. Come on. Cripes.
Posted by: lee kane at August 26, 2006 10:48 AM (T3vq4)
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Btw, how old was Domenech when he plagiarized?
And what happened to him?
Posted by: Patterico at August 26, 2006 10:58 AM (nzgAx)
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Lee.
A mistake is when you grab the wrong coffee cup. "Mistake" has no component of will in it. Mitchell didn't make a mistake. He lied on purpose. And he did it for a reason, to make it easy on himself.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at August 26, 2006 10:59 AM (rAMA0)
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Umm, lee -
rewriting the article three years after the fact is not a good journalistic practice.
Adding an 'Update' would be okay.
Updated: This article has generated some recent interest, I'd like to make it more clear that the example I give is from when I was 19 years old, working as an intern. Greg Mitchell
------------------
Original text.
------------------
Posted by: BumperStickerist at August 26, 2006 11:03 AM (PcDvW)
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Lee Kane,
For a business engaged in reporting facts, a "little sneaky" is like "a little bit pregnant".
Posted by: Chants at August 26, 2006 11:03 AM (PvJWa)
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Looks like Mitchell was indeed 21 at the time, based on a 2003 article listing his age as 55.
http://suitablyflip.blogs.com/suitably_flip/2006/08/recovering_fabu.html
Posted by: Flip at August 26, 2006 11:11 AM (OmwM3)
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Will Editor & Publisher finally change their name to Fabricator & Airbrusher? The MSM deserves a worthies cataloger of its demise than this.
Posted by: hehster at August 26, 2006 11:26 AM (S7FHT)
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No updated response from Barfly yet....
If this were a 1337 h4x0r website, they'd have a word for what happened to Barfly...
PWNED!!11!!
Hey Spacemonkey, I kind of like Barfy.
Posted by: Lubbert Das at August 26, 2006 11:35 AM (jz18l)
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Just a thought: Have you checked barfly's IP address?
-- Erik
Posted by: Erik at August 26, 2006 11:37 AM (H2vXM)
Posted by: Tood at August 26, 2006 11:52 AM (QRBhQ)
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A.W.,
I guess it's just you.
The post-publication edits are not, as you pointed out, noted. The piece is simply edited as if it were written that way in 2003. Was the piece edited as recently as August 2006? If so, why?
You seem to believe the details are simply mitigating, but Barfly brings forward the accusation that it was Jon Ham who edited the piece to make Greg Mitchell look back. I would present to you that it was someone working on behalf of Greg Mitchel to make Jon Ham look unethical in the face of Ham's disgust at what Mitchell calls trivial and common fabrication.
Think about it.
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 11:52 AM (DRifx)
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I must immediately retract my accusation. Looking at the edit history at the Wayback Machine it seems as if the story was edited between November 5, 2003 and January 17, 2004. So it does indeed look as if the details are mitigating even if they are not accurate.
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 11:56 AM (DRifx)
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Faking the news is nothing new.
In one of his memoirs, Henry Louis Mencken relates that as a cub reporter covering the waterfront for the Sunpapers in Baltimore, he and the other cub reporters for the other 5 dailies in the city decided the weather was too nasty to work, and so they spent the day in a tavern, eating & drinking. To cover themselves, they made up a story which they all turned in to their editors.
The next day, Mencken's editor confronted him: Nice work, he said, this time at least you spelled the names right.
Now if any researcher happened upon that story in the archives of the Sunpapers, and confirmed that all of the daily newspapers in the city had the identical story, he would be certain that the events recounted actually occurred.
But it was all made up.
Making up the news is an old story.
Getting caught by the blogosphere is what's new.
Posted by: Gandalin at August 26, 2006 11:57 AM (ltFM+)
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Barfly has cut 'n run.
Posted by: Garth Farkley at August 26, 2006 12:02 PM (2y863)
48
AW of Freespeech's comment is not unfair, and it would be tempting to go with it. If they had been true (see, conservatives understand stuff like the subjunctive too, y'know) the additions, though clearly intended to offer youth and inexperience as excuses, would have been fairly minor.
But they're not just nothing. They actually illuminate his original comments interestingly, suggesting a person of low social courage who has an inordinate fear of looking foolish. Which ties in pretty strongly with the criticism of MSM figures as "all on the same page," "living in a bubble," "drawn from the same political class," etc.
So by giving us less information, then having to backtrack and grudgingly give more to cover their asses, they end up by revealing more about themselves than they ever intended.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at August 26, 2006 12:03 PM (1w197)
Posted by: Abu Al-Poopypants at August 26, 2006 12:14 PM (QB67L)
50
And here's the edit history according to the archive: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mediainfo.com/editorandpublisher/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030
You have to click on each edit to determine when the excuses, er I mean details, were added.
CY, where did you find the May-November 2003 version of the story or is it your assertion that the story on mediainfo.com to which you linked was the source for your blockquote?
Can you clarify?
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 12:17 PM (DRifx)
51
The version on the WayBack machine does explicitly state that Mitchell was a 19-year-old summer intern:
Still, I felt bad about it for years and (obviously) have never forgotten it. On the other hand, I was, at the time, just 19, it was a summer internship, and I'd only been on the job about a month.
One of the many alarming things about the Jayson Blair scandal is that he never grew up, and no one at The New York Times ever seemed to notice. My ethical breach at 19 in Niagara Falls was bad enough. One expects a bit more from a 27-year-old with years of experience in New York.
Posted by: Lindsay Beyerstein at August 26, 2006 12:43 PM (endTl)
52
Checking the Wayback Machine more closely, not only was the article substantively editted, but the audit trail for changes was faked, as well.
The article was in 2003. There are 3 change entries listed in 2003, and their web address gives a matching datestamp. For example, the change listed as "Nov 05, 2003" has a "20031105072113" embedded in the archive URL. The 2003 updates do not have the bit about being a 19 year old intern.
There are 2 changes listed in 2004. They both have the 19 year old intern bit. However, the url shows the updates occuring in 2006. For example, the change linked on Wayback as "Jan 17, 2004" has embedded "20060826173129". Assuming those are Greenwich timestamps (5 hours ahead of the US east coast), it means the update was added earlier today.
Here's the Wayback change history url for the article in question
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mediainfo.com/editorandpublisher/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030
It shows 5 changes, purporting that 3 were in 2003 and 2 in 2004. Each change link goes to a url of the form http://web.archive.org/web/ TIMESTAMP ARTICLESPECIFIC
The 3 2003 changes have url parts that agree with the date. None of these have the 19 year old intern bit. The 2 changes purporting to be from 2004 have timestamps in with 20060826 in them. The 2 changes are seconds apart and both have the 19 year old intern claim.
It wouldn't shock me if the change history gets altered again. For posterity, the current link for the first version with the 19 year old intern claim purports to be "Jan 19, 2004" but the link goes to the url "http://web.archive.org/web/20060826175353/http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030"
Posted by: Lewis at August 26, 2006 12:57 PM (hfEuj)
53
Lewis, I cannot confirm your claims. The URLs I get are now:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040117221659/http://www.mediainfo.com/editorandpublisher/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030
and
http://web.archive.org/web/20041128205109/http://www.mediainfo.com/editorandpublisher/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030
As you can see, there is no 2006 timestamp there.
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 01:09 PM (DRifx)
54
I see. When I click on the links to the 2004 versions it resolves to a URL that is formatted as Lewis claims.
When I click on the links to the 2003 versions they resolve to URLs that are formatted as though the date stamp is 2003.
Maybe this time stamp does not indicate what you think it is? I don't know. Curiouser and curiouser.
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 01:20 PM (DRifx)
55
E&P used to be nothing but a classified ad vehicle for journalism jobs. Nobody ever paid attention to its editorial content before Mitchell came on board.
He made it a vehicle for a sort of preserved-in-amber 1960s ethos, dressed in 21st century clothes.
Strangest thing about this story: Why would a 19-year-old whose internship revealed to him that he could not approach strangers then continue on as a newspaperman?
I was a 19-year-old intern a few years earlier than Mitchell, and if I'd found I was that shy about approaching strangers, I would have found another career.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at August 26, 2006 01:24 PM (byoh1)
56
We're forgetting what is most important in all of this:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Not to mention Ted Turner's Ministry of Truth self-censorship of decades of cartoons to eliminate what is not politically correct today (i.e. smoking in Tom and Jerry)
Posted by: Symes at August 26, 2006 01:44 PM (EXkFi)
57
Lindsay, the article has also been edited without notation. Do you agree?
I'm guessing that Greg has heard the story of the annual competition at the Prevaricator's Club. The reigning champ tells a tale of having been the only person ever to go UP Niagra Falls in a barrel. The challeneger, in a winning bid, simply says: "I know you did. I saw you do it."
E&P: You lie, we swear to it.
Posted by: Pablo at August 26, 2006 01:55 PM (EErm0)
58
The original at TWM does have the references to him being a 19 year old intern in the fifth and sixth paragraphs -- just not the first one. And the asterisks on the Way Back Machine search page don't necessarily indicate changes in the text. Updating the page could be something like a change in formatting (which does occur here). But today's date in the URL of an update that was supposedly made back in 2004 is disturbing. That's pretty good evidence of a deliberate attempt to mislead people -- why, I can't imagine, since moving information already found later in the article up to the lede doesn't accomplish much. And pretty stupid not to have forged the change all the way back to the beginning. Unless he couldn't.
Posted by: LB at August 26, 2006 02:05 PM (r/50u)
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 02:12 PM (DRifx)
60
Yes, the E&P article was edited without notation. Looks fishy to me, and utterly pointless. Why bother covertly rewriting a lede when the relevant information was already in the article?
Posted by: Lindsay Beyerstein at August 26, 2006 02:15 PM (endTl)
61
Exactly the right question, Lindsay. I think the answer lies in disrespect for your (or his, as it were) readers and your profession. He's just so much more clever than the rest of us.
Posted by: Pablo at August 26, 2006 02:24 PM (EErm0)
62
I believe CY took his blockquote from the link that I sent him yesterday. That version on the MediaInfo site did NOT have the 19-year-old intern info in the lede as of yesterday. It was as I remembered it from May 2003 when I posted
my letter on the Poynter site. I don't think there's any question that it got changed yesterday afternoon or late last night.
Posted by: Jon Ham at August 26, 2006 02:30 PM (oaai4)
63
w3, upon further checking, I see the links purporting to be for changes in 2004 behave differently. The 2003 links give a timestamp in 2003 in the url. The links purporting to be in 2004 give an embedded timestamp that appears to be the Greenwich time of when the link was clicked. So, if you click the link twice, 2 minutes apart, you'll get different links, with timestamps 2 minutes apart and representative of the Greenwich time of when you click the links.
Note that the old links persist, at least for a few hours. The first link, which I noted in my post above, still works. I find it hard to believe they save directories for every time someone clicks a link for years.
I've checked other urls with changes in 2004. All of them give timestamps in the url which agree with the purported change date on the Wayback page. I've tried this for pages with multiple stories (e.g. instapundit.com) and single articles in other publications with 2004 changes.
So, Confederate Yankee quoted what he thought to be the story. The story was changed, with an audit log that claimed the change which added the 19 year old intern claim were in 2004. However, Wayback recovery of "intern" links doesn't use Wayback's mechanism for retrieving archives. Wayback uses a uniform mechanism for the 2003 archives and the archives in 2004 for every other article or page I've checked. It's just the change for this article adding the "intern" claim, purported to be in 2004, that doesn't act like an archive. When Confederate Yankee first linked the story, he didn't go searching for an old copy. I don't think he got an old copy. I think the version without the "intern" claim was the version of record as recently as yesterday.
It's odd someone would make 2 changes, separated by months in 2004, that got the date of Niagara closing wrong by 2 years. Especially if the biographical info linked earlier in the comments is correct, i.e. that Mitchell was 19 in 1967 when he interned but was 21 when he actually faked the story.
We know Mitchell faked the original Niagara story because he admitted it. We know the update on his article about his fakery is factually incorrect (since Niagara wasn't shut down in 1967 but in 1969). We have an old interview that puts Mitchell's age at 19 in 1967 and 21 in 1969, when he actually faked the article. We have an audit trail for the addition of the "19 year old intern" claim that does not behave like other articles on Wayback or even like the earlier change logs for that article.
This looks like deliberate fakery, not when Mitchell was 19 or 21 or even a factually incorrect mea culpa added in 2004. It looks like a fake planted this month. I'd appreciated it if those more familiar with Wayback can doublecheck me. Perhaps there is a special nonarchive archive that behaves in this manner for a special class of articles and only in a special date range. At this point, that's not the way to bet.
Posted by: Lewis at August 26, 2006 02:51 PM (hfEuj)
64
Well -- E&P has rewritten things before. In 2005 (I think ..looking for the email) they had an article in which President Bush "refused" to leave the school class he was at after being informed of the attacks. I wrote questioning the use of the word "refused." (I told them that English was only my first language, so maybe I could be wrong as to its meaning.) Interestingly they re-wrote that sentence in the online article.
I want to know how come they are the journalism-editor gurus when they don't know how to use language accurately? Anyway -- they have done rewrites of posted articles with no mea culpas. The question is why is it so important to rewrite this one when, as some others have pointed out, the age and intern info was already in there. I suppose one could say that young shy (??) journalists are allowed to make stuff up.
"Everybody" does. :-(
Posted by: JAL at August 26, 2006 03:07 PM (/XUEA)
65
I agree with you, Lewis. The only point I want to make clear is that when Wayback lacks an actual copy of a page they indicate has changed on a particular date, it will redirect to either the lastest copy they have or a live version of the page. It seems as though the 2004 versions were not archived by Wayback but marked as changed in some way. The links to the 2004 pages seem to redirect to what is there now.
I don't think Wayback ever archived the pages from 2004, only 2003.
Posted by: w3 at August 26, 2006 03:14 PM (DRifx)
66
w3 writes "I don't think Wayback ever archived the pages from 2004, only 2003."
I'd state it more strongly. Wayback was given an indication that updates were made in 2004, but it isn't true. The updates were made this month, after Confederate Yankee posted the article of record. Confederate Yankee posted and linked to the article of record August 25, 2006. At that time (yesterday), it did not contain the "19 year old intern" claim. The 2004 change dates are fakes. The reason Wayback performs differently here than on other articles is because there has been an incomplete attempt to corrupt the audit trail. I strongly suspect the attempt to corrupt the audit trail happened this month and was deliberate.
I don't know enough about how Wayback works to say how they did it. It's probably something simple like setting a change date of record field that, if left blank, picks up when a web crawl notices the change. If such a thing is event driven (eg an RSS feed of changes) an automatic method will record it changing on the day the change was posted, unless specified otherwise.
Posted by: Lewis at August 26, 2006 03:45 PM (hfEuj)
67
Good catch, Confederate Yankee! You've got another scalp.
No surprise that people who defend Hizballah propaganda manipulating the news out of Lebanon would turn out to be filthy liars themselves. Cleaning up the reporting out of Lebanon should never have been a partisan issue to begin with, but for whatever reason the Left has made it one.....
Posted by: LoafingOaf at August 26, 2006 03:51 PM (vFS/o)
68
Apparently to Mitchell and people like him truth and honor are flexible. Mistakes made as a youth just minor mistakes...inconsequntial. And the idea seems to carry on. Why bother with a few cheats and liars in the press?
When I was 19 I was carrying an M-16 and at 21 commanding an infantry platoon. Honor and truthfulness were not inconsequential; they had real consequences and cheats and liars could not be tolerated.
In today's world the media has a huge impact on public opinion, and in a democracy that translates to what our leaders do. Cheats and liars cannot be tolerated; the stakes are just too high. Yet Mitchell can't even see this and the reason is quite clear. Personal moral failure.
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at August 26, 2006 03:57 PM (MtuFC)
69
Have you checked barfly's IP address?
I'll bet one of Ace's juiceboxs it is somewhere in Brazil ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 26, 2006 03:59 PM (+u+9/)
70
OK so you're insane, right?
Posted by: jason at August 26, 2006 04:39 PM (PGGTb)
71
Wait! I got it!
That date - 1967 - was seared...seared in his memory!
Just think - if it indeed happened in 1969 (verified by at least two independent sources, judging by the above comments), then he must have been 21 - much, much closer in age to when he got his first "real" job in journalism.
Posted by: MrJimm at August 26, 2006 05:31 PM (K4jYa)
72
I put up the definitive proof of the timestamp issue just now at
LGF, simply because I'm more familiar with what I can get away with, formatting-wise.
Bottom line is that the two '2004' edits were crawled in REVERSE ORDER of how they purport to having been made.
Posted by: The Monster at August 26, 2006 06:36 PM (tw5mW)
73
JAL, E&P and its staff are not gurus of publishing. It was a job-hunting service -- a money-making one for a long time, although the Internet has pretty much eclipsed it now. My boss dropped his subscription at least 8 years ago.
Mitchell got to be editor of a moribund publication and started punching out Tom Haydenish editorials. Except for Jim Romenesko, who will link to anything, nobody in newspapering pays any attention.
In that sense, this is a tropical low -- not even a tempest -- in a very small teapot.
I have enjoyed the dismantling of Mitchell not because he is an important spokesman for my profession. He is not even an unimportant spokesman for my profession. He is a nobody. I have enjoyed it because I think his editorials are a disgrace (and I've told him so) and I enjoy watching incompetents get theirs.
Posted by: Harry Eagar at August 26, 2006 07:16 PM (PXKeq)
74
This is such a non-story, is this a joke? Are there not real stories out there, talk about trying to invent a contreversy. I have seen LGF and Michelle Malkin change content without indications before.
Posted by: RealityCheck at August 26, 2006 09:38 PM (j2vGP)
75
Garth Farkley:
Remember, it isn't cut and run, it "redeployed over the horizon."
Posted by: clark at August 26, 2006 11:39 PM (VmpAc)
76
"And we're supposed to just trust that you wingers aren't covering for each other?"
-- Barfly
Lord Rove hacked the passwords to the Google cache.
Posted by: Laika's Last Woof at August 27, 2006 03:30 AM (XAylz)
77
From
June 12, 1969 to November 25, 1969 he only found a weekend to visit the dry falls? CouldnÂ’t find any friends who had been there and talk to them? By July it was a major attractionÂ…
Just lazy, I guess.
I mean, really, 19 or 21 he could have interviewed a few of his buddies at a bar and seen if they had seen the falls. That is *also* tourism. And what is even worse is that with
just a bit of background he could have made a puff piece into something a bit less puffy. But that would require *dedication* to being a journalist, adhering to journalistic ethics and going after *more* than the story.
The Perlmutter piece by E&P was bad. And I wrote to them on that before this debacle
here. Excuse me if I do not think much of them and *their* dedication to the public.
Posted by: ajacksonian at August 27, 2006 06:34 AM (4rGOl)
78
RealityCheck:
"I have seen LGF and Michelle Malkin change content without indications before."
When? What content? Both sites use updates prodigiously. Please advise.
Posted by: Pablo at August 27, 2006 07:34 AM (EErm0)
79
things must be pretty desperate in wingnutland when this is all you guys have to talk about. "ooh, mitchell was 21, not 19, when he faked a quote -- yet another liberal media conspiracy revealed."
get a grip, people. your president (he's definitely not mine) has sent this country swirling down the toilet. two-thirds of America agrees with me. and all you can do use flimsy prextexts to attack his critics. it's sad and pathetic.
Posted by: dt at August 27, 2006 08:31 AM (g/Qrs)
80
Someone calling themselves "RealityCheck" giving assertions as proof. Our schools really do not teach the appreciation of irony enough.
Funny, but when I see non-stories I don't even bother to waste my time to comment. If there's nothing to see, just move along.
Posted by: w3 at August 27, 2006 08:48 AM (DRifx)
81
I think what you have to give Mitchell credit for is the fact that somehow in 1967 he knew the falls were going to be shut down in 1969. Either that or he completely fabricated a story in 1967....LOL. BTW - I am being facetious.
dt - great name - stand for delerium tremons? Are you Barfly in disguise? At any rate - Bush's ratings have been back over 40% for some time now so your two-thirds comment is off track. Care to revise? It seems to me that you and yours spend an awful lot of time piping the same tune about a President that can't run again....LOL. What a waste of time on your part. Got anything else?
Posted by: Specter at August 27, 2006 09:21 AM (ybfXM)
82
Maybe I am not understanding all of this correctly-
Is it the contention of Mr. Mitchell, E&P, Barfly, el al, that aside from the cover-up issue (not really an issue, is it?) that Mr. Mitchell can be forgiven the fact that he manufactured a story out of the ether because he was a 19 year old intern?
I worked for a local paper starting as a senior in high school and the first and most important lesson that was CONSTANTLY hammered into me was being accurate and honest in my reporting. I was told that without the ability to report accurately and with some honest attempt at impartiality, there would be no support from the public, and rightly so.
It doesn't matter if Mr. Mitchell was 19, 39, or 49, the fact that he admitted falsifing a story IS the news. (Yet another cardinal sin-becoming the news rather than reporting it)
In the absense of any genuine remorse and apology, I cannot help but believe that the general public would have little reason to trust anything that Mr. Mitchell, and by association, the organization that publishes him, prints.
Posted by: Richard at August 28, 2006 01:53 PM (12umn)
83
[When they talk to "that person," I hope they remind him that 1967 is long past, but character flaws are forever.]
Kind of like a president being a cocaine user and alcoholic in the '70's.
Just saying.
Posted by: TimWB at August 28, 2006 03:46 PM (n6rxJ)
84
Oh Timmy,
But it is YOU folks who constantly tell us that being addicted to such substances is a DISEASE, not a character flaw.
ADMITTING to having such habits, and successfully kicking them demonstrates great character. And, Timmy, please note that announcing that you've kicked your habit as you step into your limo at Betty Ford is not equivalent to having actually done so.
So, Timmy, you are a typical lib driven only by your NEED to bash Bush. You utterly fail to see that using this particular line of "reasoning" hoists you on your own patoot:
Bush drank, and Mitchell lied way back when.
Mitchell is still lying. Badly.
Posted by: BillSmith at August 28, 2006 05:11 PM (3kalG)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 25, 2006
E&P Editor Has First Hand Experience with Staging News
Greg Mitchell, the editor of the influential news trade publication
Editor and Publisher has recently raised a
spirited defense against questions and allegations that news may have been staged in some instances in the recent Israeli/Hezbollah war in Lebanon, may sound particularly defensive because of his own
guilty history of staging news:
Since the press seems to be in full-disclosure mode these days, I want to finally come clean. Back when I worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette), our city editor asked me to find out what tourists thought about an amazing local event: Engineers had literally "turned off" the famous cataracts, diverting water so they could shore up the crumbling rock face. Were visitors disappointed to find a trickle rather than a roar? Or thrilled about witnessing this once-in-a-lifetime stunt?
I never found out. Oh, I went down to the falls, all right, but when I got there, I discovered that I just could not wander up to strangers (even dorky ones wearing funny hats and knee socks) and ask them for their personal opinions, however innocuous. It was a puffball assignment, but that wasn't why I rebelled. I just could not bring myself to do it.
So I sat on a park bench and scribbled out a few fake notes and then went back to the office and wrote my fake story, no doubt quoting someone like Jane Smith from Seattle, honeymooning with her husband Oscar, saying something like, "Gosh, I never knew there was so much rock under there!"
Of course, I got away with it.
Somehow, Greg, I don't think that you did. (h/t Jon Ham)
Update: Mary Katharine Ham has more.
Major update: More Fakery?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:41 PM
| Comments (34)
| Add Comment
Post contains 303 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Sounds like maybe he was loathe to associate with "dorky" strangers. Elitism at an early age, perhaps?
Posted by: Mark Tapscott at August 25, 2006 02:33 PM (kJDEh)
2
A sad example of a man with a self-esteem problem. He needed someone to say, "Really, you can just talk to them, Greg, they won't bite or judge you (well, as anything worse than a "reporter".)" Poor guy.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at August 25, 2006 02:44 PM (KsQ11)
3
I don't see how anyone could work as a reporter without being able to go up to strangers and ask them questions. Reporters do this all the time. Most people are delighted to give their opinions, especially on something that's not controversial. (They may not have anything interesting to say, but they're happy to say it.) He must have worked very briefly as a reporter and then switched to copy editing.
Posted by: Joanne Jacobs at August 25, 2006 02:46 PM (7Oz0F)
4
Journalism is easy. Basket weaving is hard.
Posted by: yhandlarz at August 25, 2006 03:22 PM (AizGd)
5
"Reporters do this all the time."
Not so much as one might hope, obviously.
Posted by: eric at August 25, 2006 03:24 PM (KR6o5)
6
Of course! Whenever somebody presents a case offering facts and reality to refute your desperate delusions, your only recourse is to attack the messenger. It's got to be challenging for you folks to keep your faith-based reality intact while the real world is constantly reminding you how very, very wrong you are. No wonder you're all so angry and petty. You're sick. Very sick.
Posted by: Lordy Lou at August 25, 2006 03:35 PM (oC1oV)
7
Can someone tell me what Lordy Lou is babbling about? It doesn't appear to be anything related to reporters or journalism, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is.
Posted by: Pat at August 25, 2006 03:48 PM (c6S8U)
8
Boy, you guys just don't understand how icky tourists are. They're not cool like journalists at all. They wear funny clothes and they talk funny. They're also not nearly as smart as journalists.
Besides, everyone knows that what few thoughts those gross, icky, obtuse tourists have are so simplistic that reproducing them accurately doesn't absolutely require that you find out what they are by talking (let alone listening) to them.
As for lordy lou, I figure she/he is a journo grad student. She/he is at about that point where they've removed all the critical faculties and have downloaded the crapola generator into the brain but not yet given it the direction rules.
Posted by: JorgXMcKie at August 25, 2006 03:56 PM (OIFDa)
9
Gag. A journalist thinking that he/she is superior to anyone. Gimme a break. The dorkiest geek has dreamed more logic than came from any modern "journalist". The name brings to mind the fact that there used to be janitors (a quite honerable profession)...who are now "sanitary engineers". There used to be reporters (even then, a less than honorable profession) who are now "journalists". To those of us in science, these folks were the D students...who now dream of Pulitzers...a prize virtually as worthless as the Nobel Peace Prize.
Posted by: Da Coyote at August 25, 2006 04:29 PM (9kYWY)
10
OK, spelled honor incorrectly. Sue me!!
Posted by: Da Coyote at August 25, 2006 04:30 PM (9kYWY)
11
Lordy Lou, try not to project so excessively.
Posted by: Jim C. at August 25, 2006 04:34 PM (bb3wC)
12
"So I sat on a park bench and scribbled out a few fake notes and then went back to the office and wrote my fake story, . . ."
In my humble opinion (OK, I've NEVER been humble),
I don't know what the hell "Lordy Lou" is smoking.
Or injecting.
But, Greg is SICK.
Sick to write that fake stuff.
Twice as sick to admit it to the world.
Greg, why don't you just admit you just get off
masturbating all over your printed page
for the edification of us "lesser types" ?
I could accept THAT. {:^)
Posted by: Dan Pursel at August 25, 2006 04:43 PM (eOxCX)
13
Heh, thanks. You didn't have to do that. I was just giving Dad a hard time. But thank you. I hear we'll be seeing each other at the blog conference?
Posted by: Mary Katharine at August 25, 2006 04:50 PM (uuQ+w)
14
"Back when I was 19 and worked for the Niagara Falls (N.Y.) Gazette (now the Niagara Gazette) as a summer intern[ . . .]"
I think its hilarious how you take Greg to task - and do it in such a dishonest way! Why did you omit the part about his being an intern at the time? Did it interfere with your narrative? Sorry. and your readers are as dumb as you: NONE bothered to actually read the article did they? You started on the rum and cokes a little early . . .
Posted by: barfly at August 25, 2006 05:01 PM (LaWWK)
15
Your "mistake" was definitely Coulter-esqe.
Posted by: Barfly at August 25, 2006 05:04 PM (LaWWK)
16
Mary Katharine, I look forward to seeing you
there.
It should be a lot of fun.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 25, 2006 05:09 PM (BTdrY)
17
It makes no difference if he was an intern when he did this. That's like saying a medical intern is not at fault because he didn't sew a patient back up because he didn't want to.
Posted by: PattyAnn at August 25, 2006 05:12 PM (tDAyS)
18
There's a line in Heinlein's "Rolling Stones" that says "A man who won't design sewers isn't an engineer, he's just a man who knows engineering." Mr. Mitchell just knows journalism.
Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at August 25, 2006 05:21 PM (xU4AB)
19
I too worked for Gannett in scenic upstate New York "in the day". I too was an intern. I too was given icky assignments.
In most cases, I *did* them, figuring it was a necessary part of paying one's dues in the business. In one case I told the editor it was a story idea that was literally insulting to both its subjects and the readers, and told him I wouldn't do it, at the risk of losing my job.
Oh well, those were the good old days...
Posted by: Bucky Dent at August 25, 2006 06:25 PM (sB9Sl)
20
I have read the whole story by Mr. Mitchell, I have a Journalism degree and once upon a time made my living at it. (Based on some comments here this apparently marks me as a low grade idiot, but I toss in my two-cents anyway.)
I appreciate Mr. Mitchell coming clean. What I do not understand is why he was compelled to fake a story rather than do some interviews. Was he too shy? He writes that it was not because it was a “puffball” piece. I clearly recall my first class in news writing in which the professor stated that there were three primary rules, accuracy, accuracy and accuracy. (Maybe J-school was different in the 70’s?) After I had become a working reporter I was assigned an interview I didn’t want to do. I was certainly in no position to be picky about what I covered, but I could not bring myself to do the assignment. I finally went back to the editor and told him I wasn’t even going to try to do the interview. He was not happy, but he assigned the story to someone else. What was the assignment? Interview the family of a local resident who had just been killed in a plane crash. I have never seen any news value in assaulting the bereaved and I rebelled. On the other hand getting people’s reaction to learning that Niagara Falls was missing would be a pretty good story.
Posted by: Rick at August 25, 2006 06:56 PM (Kwn4z)
21
Leaving out the part about him being a 19-year-old intern is flat-out wrong and earns you every bit of scorn you seem to want to heap on Greg -- and you should know better!
That said, what Greg did was certainly wrong. Having worked in all sorts of media for 30+ years, my suspicion is that he was scared of talking to people he didn't know in a scenario he wasn't comfortable in. (Second possibility: He was too lazy, but that sounds implausible). I was an intern once and remember being scared/nervous most of the time I was at the radio station (blessings to the staffer I finally wound up with, who took time to work with me instead of treating me as an annoyance. I wouldn't be surprised if he was every bit as scared as I was.
Posted by: DonK at August 25, 2006 08:47 PM (AjlLX)
22
You also left out the part about him wearing matching socks. That shows he's got real standards, man.
Posted by: Tia at August 25, 2006 09:03 PM (qiocq)
23
Don't waste your time on Barfly or Lordy Lou. They are both clearly morons. It's like trying to teach a hog to read a wristwatch: It only wastes your time and annoys the hog.
Posted by: snakeeater at August 26, 2006 12:00 AM (vOBjc)
24
Greg Mitchell may have been only a 19-year-old intern when committing the act of journalistic dishonesty he described. However, it’s likely that he possessed some journalism experience and training – perhaps in high school or as a college freshman (assuming he was heading into his sophomore year).
Assuming that's the case, Mitchell should have understood he was betraying his employer and readers. To be sure, he would have had more room to excuse himself he if had zero journalism experience. But I suspect this was not the case; otherwise, his editor probably would not have trusted him with this story after one month on the job.
So why did Mitchell do it? I suspect it went beyond what he suggested was his painful shyness. In MitchellÂ’s account, I sensed an attitude of superiority to those around him -- including his employer who, it seems, he may have felt had insulted him with a "puffball assignment."
Faced with doing a ridiculous story and confident in his superiority -- Mitchell thus felt no compunction to overcome his shyness and do what was required of him. Reporters and people in many jobs, incidentally, do this all the time in order to fulfill their responsibilities. Their character and sense of responsibility enables them to do this.
Interestingly, Mitchell felt confident that he could get away with being dishonest because he was “quoting" out-of-staters; therefore, nobody was going to complain about the bogus quotes and names. Coincidentally, this lack of accountability goes hand in hand with foreign reporting and photojournalism: Both rely heavily on stringers and freelancers (perhaps with not much more experience than Mitchell). They can easily make stuff up. Nobody will complain.
Finally, the “puffball” story Mitchell derides actually could have turned out to be quite interesting in the hands of an able reporter. But as a 19-year-old, Mitchell apparently felt he was headed for bigger and better things -- far beyond interviewing "dorky" tourists.
Posted by: dpaulin at August 26, 2006 01:32 AM (AN+Gn)
25
Don't waste your time on Barfly or Lordy Lou. They are both clearly morons. It's like trying to teach a hog to read a wristwatch: It only wastes your time and annoys the hog.
To the contrary, I owe Barfly in particular a huge debt of gratitude. You see, the text he cited from the current version of the E&P article has been tampered with today,
after I wrote this article.
I didn't omit the part about Mitchell being an intern, becuase it wasn't simply wasn't there until after this blog entry was written.
Details
here.
Thanks, barfly. I couldn't have done it without you.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 26, 2006 01:39 AM (BTdrY)
26
So the Mitchell "excuse" (as it were) for the fake Niagra piece is that he was just "young and stupid"?
OK, I can buy that - but now he's not young anymore, so why is he still so stupid ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 26, 2006 04:26 AM (+u+9/)
27
Nice job, barfly! What say you, DonK?
Posted by: Pablo at August 26, 2006 01:13 PM (EErm0)
28
The crucial changes to the article occurred on January 17, 2004 when the website format underwent a change.
The original article doesn't mention that he was a intern.
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Mitchell_Greg_743122.aspx
On Feb 4, 2002 he was promoted and his age was 54.
From Wikipedia: Niagara falls was dammed in June 1969 to remove the Talus under the falls (and the temporary dam was dynamited in November).
2002 - 1969 = 33 .. So in February Greg was at least 21. In June he was 21 or 22 and out of college - which means this was his first job and not a "summer internship"
1. He consistently lied about how old he was.
2. He consistently lied about when the story happened.
3. The "summer internship" was likely a lie which is why there are two years+ of time displacement in the story.
In Greg's defense this is likely to be the result of cognitive dissonance (you rewrite your memories so they make a better read).
However it indicates that he really isn't honest with himself, and by extention, with us.
His stealth editing of the piece to emphasize his "innocence" without correcting the obvious factual errors on which the presumption of "innocence" is based, is simply reinforces the fact that he isn't honest and all of his articles should be read very critically.
Posted by: JustTheFacts at August 26, 2006 01:29 PM (kHxBu)
29
"Barfly" is merely the latest victim of the "Progressive" experience" make a big "Aha!!!" deal, only to see it crumble to "Oops."
Mary Mapes can tell Barfly all about it, if she's recovered from her denial.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at August 26, 2006 02:07 PM (t5P1h)
30
Rick, I suspect you are a nice man.
And, I don't want to pick a fight.
But, you said
"Mary Mapes can tell Barfly all about it, if she's recovered from her denial."
I'm sorry, but Mary Mapes "recovering from her denial" is just about as likely as Saddam saying,
"Please forgive me. Upon considerable reflection over past events, I realize I was really not a very nice man in several areas."
A Zebra just CAN NOT change its . . .
Posted by: Dan Pursel at August 26, 2006 02:50 PM (eOxCX)
31
In 1952 or 53, I was assigned by The Buffalo [Evening] News to interview visitors to Niagara Falls on their reaction to viewing the collapsed rockpile of the abutting Scholkopf Generator plant earlier in the week. It was a Sunday and the crowd was large and impressed. I enjoyed talking to them and their comments. Whether it was a fitting assignment for recent grad school product, or not, was beside the point. There were a lot of names, local and tourist, which meant, to me, a lot of people buying the paper the next day to read about themselves. Names make news, remember? The story was played on the front or split page, as I member.
Posted by: al popiel at August 27, 2006 08:57 PM (VtLd7)
32
According to Wikipedia, the major “shut down” of Niagara Falls (the American side) occurred in 1969, not 1967. I don’t know how long Mr. Mitchell worked as an intern at the Niagara Falls Gazette, or how many years he spent as a 19 year-old, but he may want to verify he is remembering his facts correctly.
Fair warning: there has been much work done on the Falls and this has probably included any number of at least partial water diversions. Mr. Mitchell may be referring to some other event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Falls#Preservation_efforts
"In addition to the effects of diversion of water to the power stations, erosion control efforts have included underwater weirs to redirect the most damaging currents, and actual mechanical strengthening of the top of the Falls. The most dramatic such work was performed in 1969. In June of that year, the Niagara River was completely diverted away from the American Falls for several months through the building of a temporary rock and earth dam (clearly visible in the photo at right), effectively shutting off the American Falls.5"
Posted by: Agim Zabeli at August 28, 2006 12:26 PM (QYQVO)
33
No one here is addressing the issues raised by Greg Mitchell in his article. Your perspective must be bankrupt when you can no longer address the issues and choose instead to attack the messenger to undermine the power of the article. I wonder how many of you have actually read it? It seems your intellectual curiousity is about as ambitious and rigid as our Supreme Leader's. You all seem quite willing to abandon reality for your own version of it. Your paranoid delusions about this issue are on par with those who think the Earth is flat, the moon landing was staged, the Holocaust never happened, and 9/11 was a Jewish plot. In other words- you're all wacky. Your selective morality disgusts me. It is the quintessence of hypocrisy. The fact is Israel has killed about 1600 innocent civilians in Lebanon. You can choose to pretend this never happened but it doesn't change the fact that it did.
Posted by: Lordy Lou at August 28, 2006 04:09 PM (oC1oV)
34
just trolling thru, read the comment by Lordy Lou and can't stop myself from commenting.
Lou... put the koolaid down before you drown in it. It appears you're just another apologist for the Hezbo. Try to answer this without making my brain bleed, what should Israel have done? Sit by patiently while rockets were fired into residential areas, until Hezbo ran out of rockets or Lebanese civilians to hide behind. Pray tell Lou, how DO YOU protect yourself if the enemy hides among the populace?? Wouldn't the death toll have been a little more disproportinal had not the Iraelis cared about the innocents, whereas Hezbo obviously did not. I know, now your brain is bleeding.
Posted by: wonkanator at August 29, 2006 11:55 AM (oBHYb)
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August 24, 2006
Self-Inflicted Wounds
First published as a weekly in 1884 as
The Journalist,
Editor & Publisher (E&P) is a monthly journal covering the North American newspaper industry.
Since 2002, Greg Mitchell has been the Editor of E&P, and he writes both an online and print column. While I've never read the print version, I have occasionally read Mitchell's online Pressing Issues column, and have actually written about what he has had to say twice in the past.
Click. Print. Bang. was a reaction to the mind of Mitchell, as in his column he advocated that the media should attempt to actively undermine (subscriber-only) the current U.S. President:
No matter which party they generally favor or political stripes they wear, newspapers and other media outlets need to confront the fact that America faces a crisis almost without equal in recent decades.
Our president, in a time of war, terrorism and nuclear intrigue, will likely remain in office for another 33 months, with crushingly low approval ratings that are still inching lower. Facing a similar problem, voters had a chance to quickly toss Jimmy Carter out of office, and did so. With a similar lengthy period left on his White House lease, Richard Nixon quit, facing impeachment. Neither outcome is at hand this time.
Lacking an impeachable offense and disappointed that Bush was reelected to a second term, Mitchell made the following alarmist cry to the journalistic community:
The alarm should be bi-partisan. Many Republicans fear their president's image as a bumbler will hurt their party for years. The rest may fret about the almost certain paralysis within the administration, or a reversal of certain favorite policies. A Gallup poll this week revealed that 44% of Republicans want some or all troops brought home from Iraq. Do they really believe that their president will do that any time soon, if ever?
Democrats, meanwhile, cross their fingers that Bush doesn't do something really stupid -- i.e. nuke Iran -- while they try to win control of at least one house in Congress by doing nothing yet somehow earning (they hope) the anti-Bush vote.
Meanwhile, a severely weakened president retains, and has shown he is willing to use, all of his commander-in-chief authority, and then some.
Mitchell's tone is both decidedly shrill and purposefully ominous, as he advocates his solution (while saying he doesn't) for what he seems to regard as the Bush problem.
I don't have a solution myself now, although all pleas for serious probes, journalistic or official, of the many alleged White House misdeeds should be heeded. But my point here is simply to start the discussion, and urge that the media, first, recognize that the crisis—or, if you want to say, impending crisis -- exists, and begin to explore the ways to confront it.
Not content with the news being reported by the media about the administration, Mitchell was publicly pushing for a confrontational antagonistic policy to be used to try to undermine the White House; a smear campaign to "start the discussion." He pushes, in no uncertain terms, to use the media to dig up scandals, building doubts and fears (his warning that people should, "cross their fingers that Bush doesn't do something really stupid -- i.e. nuke Iran" is a clear indication of his mindset).
What he hopes to accomplish by building distrust and fear of the White House in an influential media is open to interpretation, but based upon his earlier comments that Bush seemed neither likely to be impeached nor voted out, Mitchell seems to hope that with enough fear-mongering, someone sufficiently alarmed by the kind of coverage he hopes to gin up might find another way to remove Bush from office.
Not just hostile to the President, however, Mitchell has gone out of his way to condemn Israel's response to Hezbollah's rain of rockets on Israeli civilian targets, while dismissing Hezbollah's attempts at mass murder:
The word “rockets” makes Hezbollah's terror weapon of choice seem very space age, but they are in fact crude, unguided and with limited range – nothing like the U.S. prime grade weapons on the Israeli side. The vast majority of them land in the water or an empty field or explode in the air.
Mitchell again made his opinion on who was more at fault in the recent Hezbollah-triggered war in this column, and as you might expect, Mitchell placed the blame for Lebanese deaths squarely upon Israel and the White House, refusing to even mention Hezbollah's role in the column except to say that Israel created it.
Given his obvious biases, it should have been no surprise when Mitchell released this first part of a two-part column yesterday, attacking those bloggers who questioned the manipulation and staging of photos from some photojournalists in the recent war, primarily fought in Lebanon. His defense should have been expected, as every example of staged or manipulated stories and photographs attacked Israel, and the exposure of this journalistic fraud undermined the anti-Israeli view Mitchell has clearly decided to advocate.
Allahpundit at Hot Air rightfully took Mitchell's column to task, pointing out that clear examples of journalistic fraud did in fact occur, and catches Mitchell misrepresenting the comments made by Bryan Denton, a U.S. photojournalist witness to the sight of some staging performed by Lebanese wire service photographers.
Allah also notes that while Mitchell blasts bloggers and the suspicions and allegations they've made of staged photos, he pointedly refuses to discuss the fact that a German television station captured live video showing just such staging as it occurred in Qana. One can only imagine how much effort Mitchell took to avoid this well-documented proof that one of the most influential stories of the Hezbollah-Israeli war, the so-called Red Cross ambulance attack, was, in fact, almost certainly a complete fraud.
All of this sets up today's editorial from Mitchell, In Defense of War Photographers: Part II, in which Mitchell continues:
In a column here on Tuesday, I mounted a defense of the overwhelming number of press photographers in the Middle East who bravely, under horrid conditions, in recent weeks have sent back graphic and revealing pictures from the war zones, only to be smeared, as a group, by rightwing bloggers aiming, as always, to discredit the media as a whole.
Which is not to say that this is much ado about nothing. Obviously, Adnan Hajj, the Reuters photographer who doctored at least two images, deserved to be dismissed. A handful of other pictures snapped by others warrant investigation. In a few cases, caption information was wrong or misleading, and required correction. In addition, the controversy has sparked an overdue discussion -- some of it here at E&P -- on the credibility of all photography in the Photoshop age and the wide use of local stringers abroad in a time of cutbacks in supervision.
But, in general, the serious charges and wacky conspiracy theories against the photographers, and their news organizations, are largely unfounded, and politically driven, while at times raising valid questions, such as what represents "staging."
Were press photographers smeared, as Mitchell states, as a group?
I have heard no one doubting that news photographers have put their lives on the line to capture stories, and even when what they capture on film isn't always popular or what we want to hear in the past, we've debated it without clearly taking sides based upon ideology.
I can state for my part that I questioned the overall story the media was presenting from Qana based upon seeming inconsistencies between the stories and the photographic evidence. These questions raised by myself and others helped get an investigation launched—thought Mitchell doubtlessly disproves of it, as it is not the kind of investigation that serves the interests Mitchell's observed bias.
This success in rooting out some apparent fraud led to bloggers to look more closely at the other media information coming out of Lebanon for more, where other suspicious photos and stories emerged.
Did rightwing bloggers attempt to smear the entire media, as Mitchell alleges, or were they targeting specific questionable stories, specific questionable photographs, and photographers exhibiting a suspicious pattern of behavior?
The answer, quite obvious to those that actually read the blog posts and the commentary they generated, is that bloggers investigating specific instances uncovered general problems with how the media gathered news and verified the accuracy of the information, a fact that Mitchell begrudgingly admits. I'd like to know which "wacky conspiracy theories" Mitchell was referring to, as the Qana staging episode and the Red Cross ambulance stories most thought implausible when first proposed by bloggers, turned out to be absolutely correct.
In a significant number of the more widely disseminated blog posts asking questions and making accusations about suspicious media accounts, the suspicions of bloggers turned out to be quite well-founded. Contrary to Mitchell's suggestions, quite a few—more than a handful—of the more widely regarded questions raised by bloggers were exposed apparent staging or fraud--a remarkable achievement by people thousands of miles away from the story, doing the fact-checking and analysis that the media should have been doing, but much to their embarrassment, often did not.
Mitchell, apparently then unable to go much further on his own, decides to simply turn to the Lightstalkers photography forum, and quote heavily from media photographers denying that manipulation and staging took place. And while the much-respected Tim Fadek can say all he wants that the scene in Qana wasn't staged, and other photographers choose to take his observations as fact, when I see with my own eyes on YouTube that it was indeed directed by none other than Mr. Green Helmet himself, I have every right to doubt the veracity of Mr. Fadek and other photographers that denied Qana was staged, along with the media organizations that try to act that such compelling evidence of malfeasance does not exist.
I suspect that Mitchell's next groundbreaking column will expose that according to interviews with inmates at San Quentin, 99% are actually innocent.
This E&P editorial chooses to dodge the real issues of the media's vetting of the accuracy of the stories and photographs that they chose to print coming out of Lebanon and other venues, just as they dodged how so many pictures and events ever had reason to be questioned in the first place.
Greg Mitchell, Editor of Editor & Publisher shows himself to be a prime example of exactly what bloggers fear most in the media; a newscrafter, not a newsman, with a quite specific and heavily partisan agenda. He seems terrified that if the public actually looked too closely at how the sometimes tainted product of the news business is manufactured, they might discover it has fewer quality checks than a disposable diaper, and sadly, sometimes ends up smelling much the same.
David Perlmutter wrote of the problems with photojournalism last week:
I'm not sure, however, if the craft I love is being murdered, committing suicide, or both.
A simple glance at such industry leaders as Greg Mitchell suggests that not only are the wounds are indeed self-inflicted, but that some newscrafters can't keep their fingers from jerking the trigger.
Update: Allah reacts as well.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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An excellent takedown of Greg Mitchell. I've taken issue with his advocacy journalism in the past, and have learned not to take anything he says too seriously. My question is, do other journalists really think he's the best person to run the industry's premier trade publication? I personally can't see how anyone can deny his full blown case of BDS, especially after he wrote that ridiculous piece titled, "Will Press Put Out Fire on Iran?"
Posted by: Granddaddy Long Legs at August 24, 2006 02:49 PM (q73o1)
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"...if the public actually looked too closely at how the sometimes tainted product of the news business is manufactured, they might discover it has fewer quality checks than a disposable diaper..."
...and is a lot harder to change.
Posted by: Jim Treacher at August 24, 2006 03:19 PM (28pwE)
3
And while the much-respected Tim Fadek
And while the
formerly much-respected Tim Fadek... ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 24, 2006 03:49 PM (c/xwT)
4
Yes, there's no doubting that E&P's Greg Mitchell gets wackier by the day. Obviously he appeals to his audience: Bush-hating newspapermen who predominate in newspaper journalism.
Some in the MSM, on the other hand, may be catching onto Mitchell -- something that was underscored a few weeks ago when a prominent newspaper editor in Colorado pronounced him "irrelevant." This column, I sensed, struck a nerver in some MSM quarters; perhaps Mitchell's days are in fact numbered.
It's sad that Mitchell fails to realize that's he's living in another era -- an issue I also blogged about in: "Iran's Got Nukes! What me worry?"
Ultimately, Mitchell symbolizes all that is wrong with agenda-driven senior editors and journalists in the MSM who came of age during Watergate and the Vietnam War. I wonder if Mitchell still pecks away at an old-fashioned typewriter.
Posted by: David Paulin at August 24, 2006 09:38 PM (GIL7z)
5
Wow. I did my own analysis of his opinion piece at my blog. I had no idea he was the friggin' editor of the O&E. I'm honestly shocked that someone so devoid of the ability to make a rational arguement could be in charge.
Posted by: EdBanky at August 25, 2006 12:41 PM (ye7jq)
6
I think what we're facing here is the difference between guilt- and shame/face-based honor values. What we used to call Western Civilization used to have as a fundamental principle that the individual's motives and actions were inherently honorable or dishonorable, in the all-seeing-eye of God, if not of man. One who commits dishonorable acts feels guilt about them.
A shame-based concept of honor, as we have seen in Japan, the Islamic world, and closer to home in wackademia or ghetto culture, the act itself is not dishonorable so much as is the revelation of the act.
A Muslim woman who complains that she has been raped is bringing dishonor on the male members of her family, whose manhood is challenged because should have protected her from being raped. In order to save face, they must therefore disbelieve the charge of rape, and decide that she was a willing participant in the act, which then justifies killing her to restore the family honor.
When Bill Cosby or Juan Williams (As Saul became Paul, he sounds like he needs a new name to represent his recent conversion!) discuss shortcomings within the black community, they have brought dishonor on that community, and must be punished. Actual criminals have more respect than 'snitches'.
When Jeff Goldstein eviscerates 'higher education', daring to show us rubes the tools being used to indoctrinate our children, he becomes the target of blinding rage, descending from garden-variety moonbattery into the black hole of cyberstalking.
When the Dextrosphere shows outright fakery such as done by Hajj, or the lesser manipulations such as Flat Fatima's serial homelessness, the Passion of the Toys, or the sundry Hezbowood productions of Green Helmet, the damage to the honor of the MSM is not seen as caused by their wrongful acts, but of our daring to mention them.
"A small child said 'Mommy, why is the man with the crown naked?'. Fortunately, he was immediately killed by Imperial Security agents, and the matter was soon forgotten. Damn fine threads, Your Majesty!"
Posted by: The Monster at August 25, 2006 11:35 PM (tw5mW)
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August 23, 2006
Bitter Much?
CNN's web team doesn't appear to be a big fan of Joe Lieberman. While the
actual article carries the headline, "Lieberman secures spot on November ballot," the Web team decided this was a fitting link:
This would presumably be the same "fine folks" that brought us this gem in July:
Top-notch. Professional. Pithy.
This is CNN.
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Well, did you actually read that bit about Bush?
"He loves to cuss, gets a jolly when a mountain biker wipes out trying to keep up with him, and now we're learning that the first frat boy loves flatulence jokes. A top insider let that slip when explaining why President Bush is paranoid around women, always worried about his behavior. But he's still a funny, earthy guy who, for example, can't get enough of fart jokes. He's also known to cut a few for laughs, especially when greeting new young aides, but forget about getting people to gas about that."
Now
that's top-notch and professional...
Posted by: legion at August 23, 2006 01:40 PM (3eWKF)
2
All valid points, legion.
I just wish Bush would just quietly get sucked off by interns in secret.
Top-notch and professional...
Posted by: Hoodlumman at August 23, 2006 02:27 PM (FAZ6l)
3
Whats unprofessional about that? I just came from a meeting with a vendor where I was letting loose with pickled cabbage powered stink bombs the entire time. It's an effective negotiating tool in a closed room. She would have given me the parts for free if I had kept her in there any longer. As it was she escaped with just some mild discomfort and I got a decent price. I thought about eating chili and eggs for breakfast to really drive my point home but now I'm glad I didn't.
the above is all b/s but man i love a good fart joke.
Posted by: chad at August 23, 2006 02:28 PM (lNQg8)
4
Shorter Confederate Yankee:
"Sore Loserman? Nope, doesn't ring a bell."
Posted by: Doug at August 23, 2006 03:24 PM (jd34Q)
5
"The most trusted name in"...ummm, ahh, infomercials. Yea, infomercials!
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 23, 2006 05:19 PM (c/xwT)
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They have major problems with their headlines. In CNN World, Bushitler is the Primary Loser, but the article is about Lieberman?
Posted by: pbrown at August 23, 2006 06:46 PM (7b6pT)
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Bushitler is the Primary Loser, but the article is about Lieberman?
As Ace would say -- "layers".
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 23, 2006 07:41 PM (c/xwT)
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They also aren't fans of Homes, northwest passengers, mt lions, pythons and Paramount.
oh my...
slow news day, I guess...
Posted by: matt a at August 24, 2006 08:15 AM (GvAmg)
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Why do you watche CNN anyway?? I gave up years ago.
As to Bush, he was a DKE in school as I recall. That is normal behavior for that fraternity.
Posted by: David Caskey at August 24, 2006 11:15 AM (6wTpy)
10
that headline is a very fair headline, because Lieberman's placement on the ballot is remarkable only because he lost his primary campaign. Otherwise it is not newsworthy. Name the last person to lose a primary and run in that general.
Posted by: terrapinbeach at August 28, 2006 01:34 PM (JKQGb)
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August 21, 2006
BBC Risks Lebanese Boy for Photo Op with Unexploded Bomb
It is horrific that they would risk a child's life by forcing him so close to an unexploded but still very much "live" bomb.
It is even worse that they admit it (my bold) (h/t LGF):
When Um Ali Mihdi returned to her home in the southern Lebanese city of Bint Jbeil two days ago, she found a 1,000lb (450kg) Israeli bomb lying unexploded in her living room.
The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene for posterity.
The bomb came through the roof of the single-storey house and half-embedded itself into the floor, just missing the TV.
"Reluctantly" is correct. The Lebanese boy, wearing a blue tank top and jeans that hang on his thin frame, is visably leaning away from the unexploded ordinance, hands in pockets. That someone pushed him forward to be in such a picture, and that the BCC was willing to capitalize on this obvious bit of propaganda staging, going so far to admit it openly, is reprehensible.
This is an admittedly staged photo by an ostensibly professional and once-respected news organization. Martin Asser and any other BBC staff complicit in this event should be fired, without question.
Much to my disgust, the suicide of photojournalism continues at an every more dizzying pace.
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Watch this video: He who lives by the bomb, dies by the bomb. (Click the video to start it.) : http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2006810232251.asp
Posted by: Nostradamus at August 21, 2006 02:54 PM (TPJLE)
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Here in the States such behavior would warrant charges of Risk of Injury to a Minor, Reckless Endangerment, etc. All felonies.
Posted by: Specter at August 21, 2006 03:24 PM (ybfXM)
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The fin assembly appears to have detached (you can see a grove where it would clamp on, so what is that short pipe like looking thing sticking out the back?
I don't know of any Mk83 fin assemblies that would leave that there once they've gone away.
I don't think that's a real Mk83.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 21, 2006 03:51 PM (c/xwT)
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Funny how you can suddenly muster up some outrage for the children of Lebanon when it's the dreaded Liberal Media putting their lives in danger, isn't it?
So, why is that missile even in their living room? Maybe there was a dead Hezbollah terrorist lying just out of shot.
Posted by: Flying Rodent at August 21, 2006 04:48 PM (mm7AG)
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So, why is that missile even in their living room?
Perhaps it was dragged there.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 21, 2006 05:13 PM (ATbKm)
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Toby928:
Maybe they used a hammer to knock the fins off, for effect. I'm sure someone here can PROVE it's a movie prop over here 10,000 miles away. Aparently there are a lot of ordinance experts on the net. As we all know nobody REALLY got bombed, nobody REALLY got killed, no little kids REALLY blown away. It's ALL just camera tricks.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 21, 2006 06:00 PM (HH7vy)
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I'm not an Air Force guy but the bomb looks like it's where it has fallen originally. And it looks unexploded.
I guess the US sould keep a better quality control on the bombs the manifacture.
Regards, F. Sgt. Alex
Posted by: Fisrt Sergeant Alex at August 21, 2006 06:34 PM (r4IwI)
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rodent
maybe your wrath should be directed at those who started this war--Lebanon and Hezbollah. Or is that a little too straightforward for you?
Posted by: iconoclast at August 21, 2006 06:58 PM (Jpc2l)
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I'm not an Air Force guy but the bomb looks like it's where it has fallen originally.
Really? I would have thought that even 500lb duds would have made sufficent shockwaves to clear the room completely, but I'm no expert either.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 21, 2006 08:58 PM (ATbKm)
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Yeah, you're absolutely right, Tob, you're NO expert.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 21, 2006 11:03 PM (AqWK6)
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I would have thought that even 500lb duds would have made sufficent shockwaves to clear the room completely
I've seen 180lb of *sand bags* make a pretty big crater going in from 1000' during prototype parachute tests where the chute in question didn't open...and this thing, claimed to be a "1000lb bomb" (which makes it a Mk83) is just sitting on some rubble?
Dubious. Very dubious.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 22, 2006 04:56 AM (c/xwT)
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Real or staged (Looks real enough to me), the whole point is pushing the kid near it to take a picture. THAT, Mike and Rodent, is what is wrong with this picture.
Innocent people die in war, have since wars began, Lebonan doesn't like it, they can kick Hezbolla out since they started it. Isreal has every right to defend itself. Do you deny that?
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 22, 2006 05:21 AM (elhVA)
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After checking out with a munitions expert from Combat Engeneering we reached a conclusion that it might be an unexploded 203mm artilary round (that would explain the form, the fact is has no fins and the little "pipe-like" looking thing - the connection to the ignition capsule).
But if it's indeed a 203mm artilary shell then the building is iether 10 stories tall and this is the last, or it was dragged ito position.
But nothing can be said for sure.
Regards, F. Sgt. Alex
Posted by: First Sergeant Alex at August 22, 2006 05:25 AM (MRCRR)
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Tob, you're NO expert.
Its the capitalized NO that give it undisputed truthiness.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 09:30 AM (ATbKm)
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Wow, I hadn't realized how ridiculous this 'staged photo' ruckus had become.
Too bad the bomb couldn't have exploded when the kid was at home, eh?
I mean, is that the undertext here? Are you folks really that far out of touch, that you give more grief to somebody who took a photo of a boy next to a bomb in his house rather
than to the people that shot it there?
I mean, wow, just wow.
Posted by: Wah at August 22, 2006 11:11 AM (/Mtjv)
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Wah, you seem to be the one out of touch.
We are not saying too bad, we are saying that it was wrong to put the kid in danger to "Pose near the bomb" just for a stupid picture. Is that so hard to believe?
As far as who shot it there, read my earlier post, Hezbolla started it and in my opinion Isreal has every right to defend itself.
Putting the kid near the bomb for a publicity picture was dumb, dumb, dumb.
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 22, 2006 11:26 AM (JSetw)
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It could be the kids livingroom, his TV.(Tob, note that I CAPITALIZED tv)
Retired Navy:
Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself, that doesn't mean the photos are lies, doesn't mean the wrong people don't get killed or the "right" ones do. Just means somebody IS gonna die, that's all. My opinion, only the luckest fucking moron in the world is going to drag a piece of unexploded ordinance anywhere and live.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 22, 2006 11:48 AM (qRu2m)
18
Retired Navy,
First I am very much in touch, but we'll get to that later.
Your statement...
We are not saying too bad, we are saying that it was wrong to put the kid in danger to "Pose near the bomb" just for a stupid picture.
And I'm saying that
shooting a bomb into the kids house is putting him in quite a bit more danger than documenting the fact that a bomb was put into his house.
Is that so hard to believe?
Yes, it's very hard to believe. Why do you think I put so many "wow"s in my post about these rationalizations?
As to your "they started it" defense. I think that's a crap excuse for killing 1,300 civilians. My take on 'who started it' goes back at least six months for this latest thing*, and quite frankly, it's a moot point here.
The point I'm trying to make is that you folks have so wrapped yourself up in rationalizations, that you are now saying it is
worse to take a picture of bomb in some kid's house than it is to
shoot said bomb into said house.
That's ridiculous.
*The way I saw it unfolding... Hamas was democratically elected, they continued their rhetoric and homemade rocket attacks on Israeli settlements. Right about the time they were going to fold into the PLO (which has already explicitly recognized Israel's right to exist), a Palestinian family was blown to pieces on a beach. Then the first Israeli soldier was kidnapped in response, then the tanks rolled back into Gaza in response, and THEN Hezbollah did their raid in response...then Israel carried out an already planned military excursion to destroy Lebanon's infrastructure and to try to terrorize the Lebanese people into submission. Sorry, but chasing away nearly 1,000,000 civilians from their homes by destroying entire neighborhoods can only be called "terrorism"...at least by sane people.
Also, and I hate to point this out, but doesn't Lebanon
also have the right to defend itself? Isn't that why Hezbollah has gotten so popular there lately? Isn't that why they
exist? i.e. as a response to the nearly 20 year Isreali occupation.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 11:58 AM (/Mtjv)
19
then the tanks rolled back into Gaza in response, and THEN Hezbollah did their raid in response
Gaza is not a part of Hezbollah territory so that's BS on stilts. Regardless, in war people die, good people, bad people, innocent and guilty. The answer is to avoid war and if unavoidable, for the right side to win as quickly as possible.
Its one thing to be a pacifist but why you feel the need to tongue Hezzies' hole is beyond my understanding.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 12:48 PM (ATbKm)
20
It would never cross your mind
whya 1,000-lb. bomb was sitting in
that particular living room, as opposed to one of millions of other dwellings and businesses in Lebanon untouched by Israeli bombs, would it?
No, it is much easier to pretend that the Israeli's were purposefully targeting Lebanese civilians. It is much easer than facing the well-documented physical evidence, including video footage of Hezbollah terrroists firing from residential areas, and then hiding their launchers in apartment building parking garages and the garages of individual homes.
You seem to have created a fantasy world for yourself where Hezbollah didn't fire more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli civilians, where Hezbollah didn't hide behind women and children, and where Isreal purposefully targeted little boys instead of terrorists. That simply is not reality, but what you would pick and choose from it.
The simple fact of the matter is that it is worse to knowingly force a child to pose with a large and armed explosive device than it is to drop that explosive device a suspected terrorist position. That is reality.
When your counterbattery radar, ground or airborne recon pinpoints a missile launch site, you kill it, as they are trying to kill your people. That is war.
None of us wishes harm on a child. But we live in the real world, where terrorists hide behind boys such as this, their sisters, and their mothers. You would excuse the terrorists for firing from behind a wall of noncombatant shields, and disallow Israel the right to defend itself. This is also an absurd position, enabling Hezbollah the right to fire on Israeli civilians without fear of reprisal. Of course, that might be perfectly acceptable in your world view.
I suspect that is the case.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 22, 2006 01:11 PM (g5Nba)
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Tob
Its one thing to be a pacifist but why you feel the need to tongue Hezzies' hole
It's obvious you aren't worth replying to. So I won't.
Confederate Yankee
True to your nick, your perspective is both dichotomous and hypocritical.
...as opposed to one of millions of other dwellings and businesses in Lebanon untouched by Israeli bombs, would it?
So your argument here as to why the BBC is "reprehensible" and "horrific" is because they found one of the houses that
wasn't, but probably should have been destroyed by bombs, and took a photo of a kid next to the bomb that should have made this one of thousands of civilan structures destroyed as a response for the abduction of two soldiers? Also, you seem to think that no one should complain about civilian bombings in Lebanon because Israel didn't destroy the
entire country.
No, it is much easier to pretend that the Israeli's were purposefully targeting Lebanese civilians.
Who is pretending? There are reports coming out that such is EXACTLY what Israel did."The Israeli military seems to consider anyone left in the area a combatant who is fair game for attack," Human Rights Executive Director Kenneth Roth said in a statement.
(The Qana attack) is the latest product of an indiscriminate bombing campaign that the Israel Defence Forces have waged in Lebanon", the statement said.
"Indiscriminate bombing in Lebanon (is) a war crime", read the statement's headline.Sorry, that's not quite right. They are accused (after analysis of the data) of "indiscriminate bombing", instead of your strawman of "purposefully targeting civilians". Although, in reality, they equate to the same thing.
Officer A: There's the target, but, umm, there are civilians there.
Officer B: Fire!
.. is pretty close to ...
Officer A: There's the target.
Officer B: Fire!
Now, of course all that changes depending on who's shooting, which is why I'm calling you a hypocrite.You seem to have created a fantasy world for yourself where Hezbollah didn't fire more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli civilians, where Hezbollah didn't hide behind women and children, and where Isreal purposefully targeted little boys instead of terrorists. I see, so...despite killing more Israeli military personnel than civilians, Hezbollah was "firing rockets at Israeli civilians". And despite killing *VASTLY* more civilians than Hezbollah did, Israel still manged to kill *VASTLY* more civilians, AS A RATIO.
Your logic circuits are wired badly. When one looks at the data, it appears that (if part of the "good fight" in a war is to focus fire on military, rather than civilian infrastructure and personnel) Hezbollah fought a much more morally sound compaign. Which is horrific, as what has been designated a terrorist organization was
fighting a cleaner war than an ally.
To reiterate:
Hezbollah kill ratio of civilans to military : 44 / 118 (over 2 to 1)
Israel kill ratio of civilians to military : ~1200 / ~200 (over 1 to 6..in the wrong direction).
Now, as to your simple fact.
The simple fact of the matter is that it is worse to knowingly force a child to pose with a large and armed explosive device than it is to drop that explosive device [on] a suspected terrorist position. That is reality.
You see that bolded part? That's the root of your hypocrisy. You accept the general claim that all of Lebanon is a "suspected terrorist position". Since it was all of Lebanon that got targeted, and Israel only targets terrorists, you obviously believe that all of Lebanon is fair game. And fair in a WAR game, means, well, as you mentioned all bets are off (so to speak).
Then you go off into even more ridiculous territory, where it's perfectly fine for Israel to fire on civilans, err terrorist suspects, in self-defense and then you look the other way when Israel carries out what would be considered terrorist acts had they been done by any other country, like...say, Iran. (try this...read that
Human Rights Watch report, replace every mention of "Israel" with "Iran" and then tell me they aren't acting like terrorists. And
don't miss this one, as well, just so you realize they are calling bullshit on ALL the bullshit.)
Also, you claim that Israel has a divine right to defend itself by bombing civilians areas, but neither Lebanon, nor the people who live there, has a similar divine right.
That's why you are a hypocrite.
Sorry to take so many words to explain the reasoning of your dichotomous view of the world. I know it will fall on deaf ears, but it's still worth a try every now and again.
Finally, your "suicide" links points out that it is things like saying that taking a picture of a kid next to a bomb is
worse than dropping said bomb on said kid is what is "murdering" photojournalism. Did you even read the article?
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 03:57 PM (/Mtjv)
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Its one thing to be a pacifist but why you feel the need to tongue Hezzies' hole
It's obvious you aren't worth replying to. So I won't.
Can't is more the truth. Look here, you have a conflict between two groups, one, a democracy with full civil rights for its citizens of both genders, religions, sexual orientations, and nation of origin, a nation whose military wears uniforms, carries their weapons openly, and has a clear chain of command. vs A revanchist militia, shielding itself behind civilians while, as a policy, lauching unguided missles into civilian areas. You choose to side with the later, with the limp argument that because Hezbollah lacks the accuracy and the throw weight to kill thousands of jewish civilians this should rebound to their credit. Do you actually have any doubt, that if Hezbollah had missles with 100 times the explosive power they wouldn't be randomly shooting those? Ass, fool, thrice curse ninny. Do you really believe that there would even be a conflict, and hence civilian suffering, in Lebanon if Hezbollah left Israel alone. Israel left southern Lebanon because the cost of occupation was too high for them. I doubt they have any cravings to return.
As I said above, war is a hard hard thing and conflict breed hard and callous men, even in the IDF but there is simply no comparison between these parties as to their intent, aims, and official policies. For you to side with the punkass agressors here shows a level of masochism that would doom the West if it were commonplace.
You're not a humanitarian or anti-war, you're just on the other side.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 05:26 PM (ATbKm)
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Tob928
Good to see your folks let you back on the computer. Rest assured, once you get past puberty, you will
actually be able to express an opinion on international politics without spitting. It doesn't mean you
will, but you'll have the ability if you chose to use it.
The only coherent thought you have posted is near the end there. I'll address that.
Israel left southern Lebanon because the cost of occupation was too high for them.
They also took a few thousand prisoners during that 18-year occupation you kinda glossed over. Then there were the massacres.
Hence, there is an obvious reason (those thousands of prisoners taken during the occupation) for the resistance group that made the cost of occupation "too high" to continue it's self-defense attacks (yea, I'm using the...seemingly...popular rationale here that any offensive action is actually pre-emptive self-defense).
I doubt they have any cravings to return.
Obviously. Why else would they reduce the place to rubble?
And yes, I've little doubt that if Lebanon had been allowed to grow its democracy, and was given $5,000,000,000 worth of arms each year by some outside power, they would have done to Israel
exactly what was done to them. And we'd be condemning them for
their disproportionate response against a budding one-state democracy that let
all the people who lived there vote, instead of huddling them onto reservations.
BTW, color-blindness is a disease, but there is some therapy. Given time and lots of patience and hard work, someday, maybe far in the future, but someday, you'll be able to see there are other colors than black and white.
Good luck with the puberty stuff, I know it's rough.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 06:18 PM (/Mtjv)
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Nothing, zip, nada, vapor. I don't know how to categorize your fact free response. Rather than telling me why the Lebanese might wish to harm Jews, I was hoping that you would make a stab at telling me why you feel compelled to take the side of what is, for all intents and purposes, a mercenary army in the hire of Syria and Iran. I suspect its your judenhass but a little confirmation would be good.
As I'm probably old enough to be your grandfather, I should cut you some slack puppy, but I find that I'm less tolerant as I age. I have nothing but contempt for you and your kind. Able to bear the trappings of a civilized man but underneath, pure barbarian.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 06:31 PM (ATbKm)
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disproportionate response
Proportionate responses just encourage more of the same ad nauseam. "Disproportionate responses", wanton violence totally off the scale, settles disputes with finality (eg. Hiroshima/Nagasaki).
You don't see the Japanese getting uppity anymore and raping Nanking or anything unpleasant like that anymore do you?
Q.E.D. Disproportionate response is a good thing.
Proportionate response is a tool for mushbrained fools looking to engage in the next 100 years war.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 22, 2006 07:37 PM (c/xwT)
26
Can anyone logically explain how a "bomb" can be dropped from a plane and end up laying on top of the floor? Even if it were a dud, it would have penetrated the floor and buried itself deeply underground. Besides, it appears to NOT be an aircraft delivered bomb...at least one I've ever seen. *5 year Air Force Vet
Posted by: Doug Rodrigues at August 22, 2006 11:30 PM (7qRZk)
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Ole Tob
Rather than telling me why the Lebanese might wish to harm Jews [like those thousands of prisoners taken during an occupation and those, ya know,
slaughters], I was hoping that you would make a stab at telling me why you feel compelled to take the side of what is, for all intents and purposes, a mercenary army in the hire of Syria and Iran.
I'm curious, what are all of your intents and purposes? Because from that perspective (the mercenary army one) guess who's mercenary army Israel is? And you know whose perspective that is?
You see this huge global affair, all tied to together, some vast conspiracy by the brown people to destroy the slightly less brown people.
I see people fighting for their lives. On both sides. What I see that you and the terrorists whose perspective you have adopted can't see is an end to this mess. A new generation that is ready to be one. To get along, and build a world together. In peace.
You can't see that because you probably won't live to see it. Sorry about that. But it's there. It's a long way off, now, at least another generation...thanks to the disastrous policies of those who are actually CALLING for a 100 year war. Yep, them damn neocons. The American Century of War (peace).
But we'll get over that blight, soon enough.
I'm sorry that all you see is global conspiracies, and off-white people gathering on your lawn.
If you get out of this echo chamber, and explore the interwebs a bit, talk to the kids, see what they see.
See what they don't see.
See how well we get along, across borders, cultures, religions, etc. You might be surprised to realize that we are all one people on this little rock, and you ... [string of expletives deleted]..assholes keep mongering for more war.
Keep excusing the uncexcusable, keep calling for the unimaginable (Purple Avenger, save some time, just post "glass parking lot" next time and I'll understand your [genocidal] philosophy precisely and with much less typing on your part), and keep glorying death.
You call me a barbarain. You old fool. Wake up.
The world has moved on.
/...and go judenhass yourself.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 11:40 PM (IfLXD)
28
it appears to NOT be an aircraft delivered bomb...at least one I've ever seen.
it's a 203mm artillery shell from what I understand*. They showed 'em firing a lot on CNN, but never really showed what it looks like when they land...at least not in real time.
/*could be wrong...about ths.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 11:42 PM (IfLXD)
29
Wah, I have been across borders. I have talked to the people in other countries around the globe. I have been there and see a lot of good people. I also, however, see a lot of 'bad' people. There truely are those out there that just don't like the 'west' or our ideas and oppose them at every turn, the worst being terrorism. It won't change in a generation because they keep recruiting as much as they can.
You may see it on the internet but on the planet, it just isn't there like you believe. How do you change a violent mindset when the people you are trying to get to understand democracy just don't believe you, don't want it (want to keep control), and because of beliefs/religion, believe you should either be subjucated or dead?
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 23, 2006 05:35 AM (y67bA)
30
Another vacuous and impotent post, serving only to hightlight your prefidious toadying to barbarism, Wah. Now you express a faux
pox on both your houses moral preening that would have earned you a mere Feh! from me before but its too late. You've chosen your swamp to stand in, and any grasping for the high ground shows that you lack even the fortitude of your heinous allies.
I was born in the aftermath of one existential civilization war, lived to see another through to victory, and now find my nation involved in a third. Each time the West has had to suffer with your kind, twisted creatures so filled with loathing for themselves and their own culture that they would seek common cause with the vilest of thugs. An enemy without pity or conscience. Killers who kill grandmothers and their grandchildren with blind rocket fire, as a policy, and call it a victory. Shield themselves with noncombatants and when the innocent are inevitably killed, parade their sad corpses as a PR coup. Groups truly worth of the contempt of civilized men, deserving of the appellation
Hosti Humani Generis and destined for a dogs's death.
Yankee runs a classy joint here and decorum prevents me from using the appropriate language to express my disgust with you and your kind of "progressive" bootlicker and your dreams of a judenfrei world. However, AOSHQ
is auditioning for a new resident troll and this Friday, we will be commemorating The
Wreck of the Hesperus. You can be the star attraction.
I appologies to the Yankee for my screed and have had my say. I can only plead that I lack the patience to suffer pretentious fools and lackeys anymore.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 23, 2006 09:04 AM (ATbKm)
31
Retired Navy
There truely are those out there that just don't like the 'west' or our ideas and oppose them at every turn, the worst being terrorism. It won't change in a generation because they keep recruiting as much as they can.
And there truly are people here calling for genocidal acts of mass destruction. And the teorrorists have been given a HUGE BOON in recruiting because we are following the neocon plan for 100 years of war and remaking the ME in our image. We have done exactly what OBL said we would do. As such, we've given their framing MASS amounts of evidence to support it.
The reaction there is much the same as that of people here worried about the oxymoronic phrase "islamo-fascism". People see an outside threat, and support those they think are best equipped to fight it. This is why radical Islam doesn't fear elections, it wins them. And why radical militarism won the last major election here.
How do you change a violent mindset when the people you are trying to get to understand democracy just don't believe you, don't want it (want to keep control), and because of beliefs/religion, believe you should either be subjucated or dead?
It's not "democracy" we want to export. That, they understand just fine. What we really want to export is "liberalism" (which you folks hate, I know...kinda ironic, eh?). And by "liberalism" I mean in the classic sense of equal rights for women and minorities. The rule of law, balance of power, peaceful transition of power, etc. All the things that people who hate liberals hate.
Only the fundies (much like the ones here) want to convert or kill everyone. The strategy should have been to avoid ultra-violent means, as that only radicalizes a people and causes they to gravitate towards to same violent types ind defense. The strategy should have been to build, not destroy.
We had a great opportunity to do this in Afghanistan. To rebuild a country that was destroyed fighting commies. Instead, the energy interests realized we now could whip up the fear to support an occupation of Iraq...and we've all seen how wonderful that tangent has worked out.
The general strategy should have been to marginalize the radicals, not lionize them and make their power seem great. To build real, and physical, and lasting solutions to the problems we all face (transportation, education, health care), rather than trying to Shock and Awe a population into submission.
But the neocon strategy was used, and now we've got another generation of people, sitting at home, staring at Western bombs in their living rooms....wondering...who is going to protect me from those savages...
Tob
You're drooling again. Wipe that up.
Posted by: wah at August 23, 2006 01:51 PM (/Mtjv)
32
You're drooling again. Wipe that up.
In a battle of wits, you are truly unarmed.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 23, 2006 03:16 PM (ATbKm)
33
They may understand Democracy just fine, but Liberalism is not just understood by them, but is being used as a weapon against us. They play the news, liberal politics, and bleeding heart strategy every chance they get.
Afganistan is still being rebuilt, it doesn't happen over night.
The 'Neocon' Stragegy may need work, but what ideas came from the lib side? Other than patting them on the head and giving them everything they want?
I don't relish the idea of killing anyone but if it comes down to our (U.S.) way of life and our very lives itself, or them, I choose us.
Iraq has been unstable since, ever. We didn't make it that way. There have been overthrown dictators there since the turn of the century. Saddam was just the last one (and hopefully the last) in a long line.
Wars between Democratic nations don't really happen. Look at history and find one that happened between two Democratic nations. When they become Democratic over there it will be a boon to the world.
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 24, 2006 05:51 AM (lNB+R)
34
What Wah is trying to say is, that WE as the west need to understand the loving, tolerant, peacful ways of Islam and to open our arms and except it as the one true religion. To be led like sheep and be assimilated into that most wonderous of religions and live in paradise. Where you have no rights or freedoms, could almost certainly be killed for having pemarital sex, sliting you own son or daughters throats because they wanted to marry someone of their own choosing. Be beaten by the religious police for not praying when your are called to prayer or they saw your ankle underneath your burka. Woman have absolutly no rights and are forbidden to be educated. BTW it is a death sentence to own a Christian Bible. So let me tell you something you ignominious POS I have no tolerance left in me for your version of nirvana. I have no desire to lay down with the wolves. Their goal is total world domination not to just be excepted and left alone, but to rule the planet under one religion. No freedom of choice, No elected officials, No Freedom of speech BTW you seem to enjoy. How ignorant are you of the world and its history? We cannot let them have it their way. History is repeating itself. This is slow global domination, no different than Hitler or Stalin, Isreal no matter how you look at it through your severe dementia is fighting for its existence. Its a tiny country surrounded by wolves. Those same wolves that let their innocents be killed by placing them in harms way. Then praise a lunatic like Nassrallah, as a hero. You know why? Because somebody makes damn sure they say the right thing or else. Fear like it or not gets results. Remember "Oil for Food" that did alot of good, Sadaam bought weapons. YOU need to understand the ME culture not I. I understand it, you would much rather have them at your feet than your throat. Your bloviating and spinning the facts will not hold up in the court of world opinion. Iraq will be a democratic country someday, like Retired Navy stated your are not going to change a mindset overnight. If Iran and Syria would stop supporting the insurgency and propping up the likes of Al Sadr and Nassrallah this would be over.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at August 24, 2006 07:03 AM (elhVA)
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wah -
"Only the fundies (much like the ones here) want to convert or kill everyone"
Did I miss something or is this not the expressed goal of Hezbollah when it comes to the Jews or us for that matter
Your thoughts are that they Israel should try
"To build real, and physical, and lasting solutions to the problems we all face (transportation, education, health care)"
Would Hezbollah accept a single cent towards this goal from Israel? How can Israel be expected to build educational facilities in a country that allows terrorists to lob rockets into their country.
Let me guess, if we just apologies to al-Qaeda and build them some roads and schools they will like us again and not want to convert the entire world to Islam, and destroy al infidels as is dictated to them by their interpretation of the Koran?
Posted by: Web at August 24, 2006 10:11 AM (3como)
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August 17, 2006
Pocketbook Jihad
Look at any of the casualty figures coming out of Lebanon in the world's major media organizations, and you'll see something very close to
this:
The Lebanese death toll, meanwhile, rose to 842 when rescue workers pulled 32 bodies from the rubble in the southern town of Srifa, target of some of Israel's heaviest bombardment in the 34-day conflict. The figure was assembled from reports by security and police officials, doctors and civil defense workers, morgue attendants as well as the military.
The Israeli toll was 157, including 118 soldiers, according to its military and government.
What is missing from this death toll (which CBS News has now quietly removed from this web report) are the casualties sustained by Hezbollah.
Many people would presumably be interested in knowing the toll the war has had on Hezbollah, as Hezbollah's actions did indeed trigger this latest war. But a recalcitrant media has steadfastly refused to provide these figures.
The Israel Defense Forces, as a standard practice, makes an effort to photograph and document each Hezbollah fighter confirmed killed, and also estimates the number of unconfirmed/unclaimed Hezbollah casualties from air strikes and artillery fire. Certainly, a media that has spent a considerable amount of their time and resources ferreting out and reporting America's secret national security programs could easily access unclassified information, some of which has been published on the IDF's own web site. Even a cursory analysis of the world's media reporting out of Lebanon reveals that in photographs, on video and radio broadcasts, and in print, Hezbollah casualties are almost never reported. So why does the media choose to underreport Hezbollah's casualties?
The answer may at least partially lie in stories of Lebanese casualties that the world media does choose to report. Story after story, photo after photo, dead and distraught Lebanese civilians clog the mediastream, building a false, grim montage of a war in which primarily Israeli soldiers and Lebanese civilians die.
This is not the whole truth of this war, but a partial truth developed through complacency and an apparent willful disregard to report the facts on the ground. Instead of seeking and publishing the entire truth, newsrooms have decided that they will publish the stories and images framed by foreign, mostly Arab Muslim reporters, even though their own cultural interests in these events are a clear and undeniable conflict of interest precluding even a pretense of unbiased reporting.
This is beyond bias, it is a reckless and willful disregard for reporting the whole truth in favor of reporting "news" that is easier to sell in a larger world media market. The casualty statistics are there, but the media sticks to the narrative they have helped create because while honest reporting is a goal, the business of the media business is business.
If it "bleeds it leads," but only if what leads sells advertising. News consumers around the world consume the news that more closely matches their perceptions of how reality should be, and stories critical of Hezbollah, stories that show their failures and deaths, don't sell in world population featuring 1.3 billion Muslims that hope for Israel's demise, or at the very best are indifferent to their fate. It is anti-Semitism by cashflow, a pocketbook jihad that buys the media's silence.
This morning I received a comment from an IDF sergeant, stating in part:
It's not classified, but I dought[sic] you'll ever see these figures in the MSM. According to our statistics we (the IDF) have scored OVER 600 CONFIRMED enemy kills (photgrphed [sic], documented, claimed and added to the killboard, I personally scored 2 kills to add to my record) and another 800-1200 unconfirmed/unclaimed kills (this estimation includes kills form airstrikes/artillary shelling). The Hizb'Allah losses aren't counted, on the most part, against the official number of Lebanease[sic] casualties.
Hezbollah has suffered 500-600+ confirmed fatalities, and estimates are that another 800-1200 are dead; perhaps half of Hezbollah's armed forces, and yet the media chooses to ignore these readily accessed figures in favor of a more marketable Lebanese civilian body count.
The media chooses to underreport Hezbollah's casualties because it is bad for business, while it unashamedly pimps civilian corpses for profit. That is just one of the ugly realities of this war that isn't considered "all the news that's fit to print."
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CY, It's clear the MSM refuses to distinguish militant
proxies from innocent
civilians in the ME. To them it's as if Hezbollah is just a local Lebanese chapter of the Lions Club.
I think the reason for this blindness is that the incisive investigative work that publicizes this civilian-militant distinction opens a terrifying pandoras box for them. The MSM penchant for faddish pacifism, UN primacy, "multiculturalism," transnationalism and anti-republicanism will come under rational scrutiiny if they report that expatriate Hezbollah fighters are
not Lebanese.
It boils down to accountability. Proxies allow an antagonist to escape accountability for its proxies' actions. But, a community of bounded nation-states asserts that accountability. So, given that the progressive's socialist global agenda requires that personal and national accountability be discounted, we shouldn't be surprised that the MSM doesn't want to probe too deeply here.
Maybe, too, it's because the MSM has become a proxy mouthpiece for progressive politicians in America, Australia and Europe, and they don't want critiques of proxy-actions
in general to gain front-page notoriety. People might start asking questions.
-Steve
Posted by: Steve at August 17, 2006 10:22 AM (mw+rq)
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Accuracy Strikes Middle East Reporting
From the front page of today's
JPost:
Take note of the headline and contrast it against the caption: "Hizbullah fighter watches IDF Wednesday."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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They just forgot to add "and takes a picture of him".
Posted by: Tim at August 17, 2006 05:37 AM (xqtXG)
2
according to Roget, they are one and the same
Posted by: jay tel aviv at August 17, 2006 11:40 AM (Vdp8K)
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August 16, 2006
A Caption Too Small
Yes, I'm getting just as tired of
this kind of stuff as you are (my bold):
Lebanese civil defense volunteers unload a coffin from a refrigerator outside the Hakoomy hospital in port city of Tyre, southern Lebanon, Wednesday, Aug. 16, 2006. At least 842 people were killed in Lebanon during the 34-day campaign, most of them civilians. Israel suffered 157 dead _ including 118 soldiers.(AP Photo/Sergey Ponomarev)
According to the Associated Press "most" (by definition more than half; at least 421) of those who died were civilians. Considering AP's recent track record in Lebanon, I'm disinclined to believe their claim. Their vague figures run in opposition to what we see here from Strategy Page:
On the ground, Hizbollah lost nearly 600 of its own personnel, and billions of dollars worth of assets and weapons.
Ynet News, citing the IDF as a source three days ago, states that 530 Hezbollah members have been killed.
If the Hezbollah deaths cited by StrategyPage and Ynet are correct and the AP's overall casualty count is close to accurate, then more than 60% of those killed were Hezbollah fighters, even as Hezbollah attempted to hide behind old women and children.
However, when looking at the figures provided by the Associated Press, one would be tempted to infer that Hezbollah's attacks were more precisely targeted at Israeli military forces, as the AP points out that the majority of the Israelis killed by Hezbollah--118 of 157--were soldiers, while "most" of those killed by Israel were civilians.
But the AP conveniently leaves out the fact that half of the Israeli civilians killed were the result of 4,000 indiscriminately targeted Hezbollah rockets purposefully aimed at civilian areas. It also leaves out the glaring fact that Lebanese civilian casualties were so high precisely because Hezbollah chose to fight a war using Lebanese civilians as shields.
Israel specifically targeted precision weapons and artillery fire on infrastructure and Hezbollah targets, while Hezbollah aimed their rockets almost exclusively at Israeli population centers.
In the media war against Israel, somehow the captions are never quite big enough to fit that most basic truth.
Update: An IDF First Sergeant clarifies the situation with first-hand knowledge in the comments:
CY, this is a great post you have written here, though I feel I have to eluminate a few things.
I'm an IDF first sergeant and recently returned from Lebanon. And the way things are develping I might return there sooner then I've hoped.
Hizb'Allah casualties. The numbers you have presented are quite close to accurate, but they don't show the whole picture. It's not classified, but I dought you'll ever see these figures in the MSM. According to our statistics we (the IDF) have scored OVER 600 CONFIRMED enemy kills (photgrphed, documented, claimed and added to the killboard, I personally scored 2 kills to add to my record) and another 800-1200 unconfirmed/unclaimed kills (this estimation includes kills form airstrikes/artillary shelling). The Hizb'Allah losses aren't counted, on the most part, against the official number of Lebanease casualties. Hizb'Allah admits to loosing only 58 of it's own men and 21 more from their ally - the Amal terrorist organisation.
How much troops Hizb'Allah has really lost we'll probably never know since they're quite unlickly to release this information.
Hizb'Allah also lost a lot of weapons and equipment, and quite large amounts of equipment were captured by us.
But the operation wasn't deemed as successful since we didn't get our boys back. Also we (the soldiers) feel that some high ranking officers in the Northern Command had little idea what they where doing. Our political leadership could've should've done more - like sending us in early on/buying us more time to finish the job.
At any rate, Olmert chose to succumb to the will of Kofi Anan and his Useless Nations with their Hizb'Allah backed Associated Propaganda and al-Reuters spitting lies all over the world about disproportionate response and us indiscriminately
killing civilians.
But this isn't over by any means, this "cease fire" is just a temporary respite before all hell will break loose once again. And then we'll finish what we've started.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
I agree, but one samll corection:
not HALF but ALL of the Israeli civilians killed were the result of 4,000 indiscriminately targeted Hezbollah rockets purposefully aimed at civilian areas.
Posted by: hezy amiel at August 16, 2006 03:45 PM (nmxAF)
2
Yes, the civilian deaths are bad.
Perspective: in the Normandy Campaign in 1944, more French civilians died than Allied and Nazi soldiers COMBINED.
If the Lebanese government was really horrified by the number of civilian deaths, they would have immediately agreed to Israel's terms for peace. These were not onerous- disband Hezbollah, return two captured soldiers, no big deal.
Conclusion: The deaths of civilians were painful for the Lebanon government, but the thought of disbanding Hezbollah is even MORE painful. They will gladly sacrifice any number of Lebanese to protect this terrorist group.
Ben
Posted by: Ben at August 16, 2006 04:34 PM (04cQ2)
3
Given that a "Confederate Yankee" back in the day was known as a "Copperhead" and considered a traitor, it's entirely appropriate that a halfwitted moron like you, out apologizing for today's Party of Southern Treason, would choose it.
Republican: a synonym for traitor, war criminal, thief, con artist, liar, and moron.
Posted by: TCinLA at August 16, 2006 06:09 PM (0BwPH)
4
Note also that some recent Hezbollah missiles fell in Lebanese civilian areas. Which, with Iranian money, they are promising to rebuild (presumably with really deep cellars).
And Kofi is upset that Israel does not want to pull out before a peace-keeping force with teeth (permission to fire) is in place, since Kofi has promised that it shouldn't take much more than a year - assuming anyone signs up to be part of it - and why should it matter that Kofi's UN will not be tasked with disarming anyone?
Posted by: teqjack at August 16, 2006 07:38 PM (oHkbn)
5
TCinLA, you really need to stop using... it's effecting your ability to be coherent. You might to have the BDS seen about, too.
Posted by: Old Soldier at August 16, 2006 07:53 PM (owAN1)
6
Do you know what I find curious? The fact that they are using photo descriptions to convey propaganda.
Aren't these labels supposed to be short, and to describe only what's happening in the picture? Some context is fine, but making an assertion in a photo's label seems out of place.
Good thing he didn't deniend the Holocaust while he was at it.
Posted by: dna at August 16, 2006 08:20 PM (xjpGM)
7
TCinLA,
LOL. You just proved where CA got the title the "left coast". LOL. We are laughing at your obvious prejudiced behavior. You are obviously a racist. Too bad. You are probably one of the "elite" that want to run the country. LOL. Stick with the LATimes.
BTW - What do you think of the full page ad in the LAT today with 84 Hollywood Heavyweights condeming - would you believe it - not Israel, but Hezbollah and Hamas for the unrest in that part of the ME. Wow.
But for you - you may as well have quoted the braintrust of the DemoNcratic Party - none other than Howlin' Howie Dean. You know what he says:
AAAAAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Posted by: Specter at August 16, 2006 09:26 PM (ybfXM)
8
Given that a "Confederate Yankee" back in the day was known as a "Copperhead" and considered a traitor...
Actually, "
copperheads" were cowardly northern Democratic appeasers during the Civil War which constantly called the Republican president a "tyrant" and claimed that he was destroying America and American values. They tried to convince American troops to desert, were generally treasonous, and we're largely viewed as useful idiots by their enemies.
Does that sound familar? It should. Then, as now, the synonym for a copperhead is a "Peace Democrat."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 17, 2006 12:17 AM (BTdrY)
9
CY, this is a great post you have written here, though I feel I have to eluminate a few things.
I'm an IDF first sergeant and recently returned from Lebanon. And the way things are develping I might return there sooner then I've hoped.
Hizb'Allah casualties. The numbers you have presented are quite close to accurate, but they don't show the whole picture. It's not classified, but I dought you'll ever see these figures in the MSM. According to our statistics we (the IDF) have scored OVER 600 CONFIRMED enemy kills (photgrphed, documented, claimed and added to the killboard, I personally scored 2 kills to add to my record) and another 800-1200 unconfirmed/unclaimed kills (this estimation includes kills form airstrikes/artillary shelling). The Hizb'Allah losses aren't counted, on the most part, against the official number of Lebanease casualties. Hizb'Allah admits to loosing only 58 of it's own men and 21 more from their ally - the Amal terrorist organisation.
How much troops Hizb'Allah has really lost we'll probably never know since they're quite unlickly to release this information.
Hizb'Allah also lost a lot of weapons and equipment, and quite large amounts of equipment were captured by us.
But the operation wasn't deemed as successful since we didn't get our boys back. Also we (the soldiers) feel that some high ranking officers in the Northern Command had little idea what they where doing. Our political leadership could've should've done more - like sending us in early on/buying us more time to finish the job.
At any rate, Olmert chose to succumb to the will of Kofi Anan and his Useless Nations with their Hizb'Allah backed Associated Propaganda and al-Reuters spitting lies all over the world about disproportionate response and us indiscriminately
killing civilians.
But this isn't over by any means, this "cease fire" is just a temporary respite before all hell will break loose once again. And then we'll finish what we've started.
Regards, F. Sgt. Alex
Posted by: First Sergeant Alex at August 17, 2006 02:54 AM (38oGk)
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August 15, 2006
Watching Zohra
Yesterday I quipped that I found Gatorade's new energy Drink "self-Propel," after discovering a series of three pictures by Reuters photographer Zohra Bensemra. In those photos, a
mysteriously mobile bottle of water appears and disappears beside an elderly injured woman that Bensemra said was waiting to be rescued, and was made to appear utterly alone.
The moving bottle and other suspicious elements in the photos lead me to believe that this series of photos, like so many already discovered coming from Arab Muslim stringers in Lebanon, were quite likely staged.
The curious composition of Bensemra's photos continued today, as this one was, err, unearthed in Yahoo's Photostream:
I have no doubt at all that Lebanese Red Cross members are unearthing bodies from the rubble of Israeli air strikes, and will continue to do so for days weeks, and even months to come. But the damaged structure in question would seems to offer a very narrow opening, and with two rescuers already inside the cramped space (you can see the reflective stripes on the sleeve of another rescuer further in), it would seem strange to bag a body in the narrow confines of unstable rubble, when it would be both safer and easier for the rescuers to do so in the open.
Of course that is making the assumption that this is indeed a cramped space.
Another photo, which I have enlarged and then cropped to show the relevant area, indicates that the external area of the structure in question is only several yards wide, and no more than a couple of yards high. Note the expansive open area in the left side of the frame, and edge of the structure over the shoulder of the second man from the right. This structure these men were emerging from is far too narrow to be a residential building. It seems doubtful that a normal residential dwelling would have such a narrow profile, a concrete roof, walls a foot or more thick, or space for two or more live adults to body bag the undefined deceased inside, before bringing him out.
Victim, or target? House, or bunker? Perhaps the Israelis were able to kill someone other than old women and children after all.
I cannot prove that Zohra Bensemra is complicit in staging photos in Lebanon, but at the very least I can feel comfortable of accusing Bensemra of writing misleading captions that alter the context of how the picture is viewed. A caption reading "Lebanese Red Cross personnel remove the body of a person who died during an Israeli air raid during the conflict between Israel and Lebanon's Hizbollah, at Tayba in south Lebanon August 15, 2006" may be entirely accurate, but a caption reading "The body of a Hezbollah fighter is removed from a bunker near Tayba" would tell quite a different story, if that is indeed what happened.
Is Reuters photographer Zohra Bensemra a journalist, or propagandist? I'll leave that for you to decide, Myself, I tend to judge people by the company they choose to keep.
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Posted by: Bill Faith at August 15, 2006 03:52 PM (n7SaI)
2
It seems like they are using the tarps to pull the bodies out of a small passageway.
What is the conspiracy here? That on the other side of the hole is a ballroom and underground waterpark, where the rescue workers have ample room to wrap the bodies before sliding them out of the hole, but not before they enjoy a 12 course meal?
I mean, get a life. These men, for whatever reason, are hauling bodies out of rubble. I'm certain that there are plenty of bombed out places filled with corpses in Lebanon. You should be happy that they aren't showing pictures of burned, mutilated children without faces or flies feeding on dead senior citizens.
At least these photos are reasonably mild. I'm sure if there was a vast-left-wing conspiracy to produce doctored photos, there would be pictures of a burning doll or a child with a missing foot or something at least half as moving as a "feed the orphans" advertisement.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 15, 2006 06:23 PM (DwFzZ)
3
"It seems doubtful that a normal residential dwelling would have such a narrow profile, a concrete roof, walls a foot or more thick, or space for two or more live adults to body bag the undefined deceased inside, before bringing him out."
Narrow house, concrete roof! Icky! They deserve to be crushed under the rubble. Poor people are so tacky! Barf!
Now if it were one of those maaaarvelous little bungalows that they have in the Hollywood Hills, with a Mini Cooper in the driveway, that would be another story. (Especially if he had nice abs! Meow!)
Posted by: Grizzly at August 15, 2006 06:32 PM (DwFzZ)
4
Looks like a mast and an antenna on the left of the picture stretching toward the right. There's a wire dangling from the antenna. Is this for TV or is this some sort of shortwave rig?
Posted by: Jim at August 15, 2006 07:04 PM (kbeKY)
5
Good thing nobody gets killed in wars. These are all photo ops done on a sound stsge in Burbank. Camera tricks. Maybe all you pro war activists will enlist, now that we all know nobody gets hurt in war. Neat uniforms, real laser tag guns that shoot real lasers that ring a bell when you hit your TARGET. Full coverage with dental and they even pay you. No real dead bodies to stink up the neighborhood, just camera tricks.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 15, 2006 08:02 PM (L4LKA)
6
In the top photo, the man is pointing. If you draw a straight line to the spot where he is pointing, you are directed to the vertex of a right angle. The slightly wavy wire forms the hypoteneuse of a right triangle. The message here is clear. While most look at the cave and the body coming out of it, the photographer says that we should be looking at the right triangle, a symbol of the gnostic cult of Pythagoras. In this context, then the image of the dead body being removed from the tomb by men wearing crosses, the photographer seems to be suggesting that the Resurrection was a hoax.
As an added affront to Christians, the men with crosses are wearing orange life jackets. Orange is widely known to be the color of the "Hermes" corporation of France, which takes its name from the pagan god who is most closely associated with the hermetic (pagan/gnostic) tradition. The lifevests themeselves are a reference to the Bible story in which Jesus walks on water. Notice the men who bear crosses do not leave their fate up to Christ, rather, they wear life vests.
Zohra obviously has an axe to grind with these photos. Clearly these photos are encoded with gnostic imagery. If you read the larger picture, my guess is that Zohra would scoff at the idea that this war is part of a larger plan and that he is subconsciously trying to program children to believe in his gnostic wordlview.
I suppose we'll see who gets Left Behind. When he's out there fiddling with dead terrorists to make his little point, we'll be up in heaven hawkin' burning angel loogies on his heathen ass.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 15, 2006 08:48 PM (DwFzZ)
7
Grizzly, are you daft? Most likely, you're not, you just don't know stuff about concrete and steel and construction. Fortunately for you I'm not a computer geek, I'm kind of a construction geek. I have a red plaid flannel shirt to prove it, so sit back and Learn.
Low, wide opening, concrete slab roof, BRUSH ON TOP- that's a bunker, not a home! Did it sink home that the concrete roof did not break up even when the walls did? You think a peasant chooses building materials like that?
Poor people do not build homes that are only 8 feet wide, rise 3 feet off the ground, have high strength concrete slab roofs, and camoflauge. They have corrugated metal roofs, or tile roofs, or mud roofs that wouldn't look at all like that.
Check out the wall- see the way the blocks on the right have shifted, but remain in place? See the broken ones? No cavities, right? Those are not the simple hollow concrete masonry units most people would use (yes, even there) nor are they merely grouted solid. Nor are they bricks- any of those are much cheaper options- yes they have bricks in the middle east, they frikkin invented them there. So why these big solid pre-cast concrete? Why would a peasant build with that kind of weight? And time, and money. And it's NOT easy- those puppies weigh in at 145 LB per cubic foot. And they are NOT cast in place, or we wouldn't see blocks, we'd see irregular pieces.
And they are concrete, not stone, because the construction stone in that part of the world is in the tan-gold-beige range. If those are stone, our peasant is using imported limestone!
How do we know it wasn't taller? Because A) the vegetation overgrowing it, unless you think in Lebanon shrubs grow a few feet between a bombing and a casualty removal, B) if it was tall, the slab would have broken in the fall, and C) unless you think Lebanese peasants use cantilevered construction, that heavy roof slab would be wall-supported, and there just isn't enough wall debris to have been a taller stucture. Try to mentally reconstruct it.
And you can clearly see that the rubble does not continue to the right or left of that
You will never find a picture of a home in Lebanon with construction consistent with the rubble you see in that pic. Go try. Knock yourself out.
And just to show that I'm a fair minded guy, the dust free blanket and pillows in the second photo set mean nothing. Who's to say a neighbor didn't bring them over? I can show you pictures from the day after 9-11, with spotless T shirts in sight, and 4 days after, absolutely clean brand new spit and polished Volvo trucks. (Volvo America donated them on Sept 13, pulling 3 right out of the showroom)
Ben
Posted by: Ben at August 15, 2006 09:27 PM (04cQ2)
8
PS:
In the original photo at Yahoo I do believe I see some rebar.
One heck of a peasant dwelling, there.
Ben
Posted by: Ben at August 15, 2006 09:30 PM (04cQ2)
9
Wow. Since the last time I've read your blog you seem to have accumulated some lefty trolls
Posted by: Chase Bradstreet at August 15, 2006 11:57 PM (yKnNx)
10
I thought it looked like a wall that had fallen over sideways, actually. I've been to other third world countries and you see all kinds of garbage arranged in ways that don't make sense. But to be fair, the Yahoo story says nothing about it being a body from a house. It's possible that it was a bunker or bomb shelter or some other structure. I don't see why this should distract us from the gnostic imagery.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 16, 2006 12:05 AM (DwFzZ)
11
The bottom photo is totally fake. Look at how big the guy with the green helmet is. Look at how small the bulldozer is. I think the bulldozer is really a Tonka with some G.I. Joes on it.
Plus, he is wearing a Cal Trans vest over his army clothes, which means he probably got a DUI. You can't trust drunk dopehead Vietnam vets who still wear their fatigues around even though they got discharged for going AWOL. Proof of a fake.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 16, 2006 01:16 PM (DwFzZ)
12
Plus, all those "arabs" look like illegals, to me. Either they have the same anchor baby infestation we've got here, or this is just a Hurricane Katrina photo. How much more proof do you need! The war in Lebanon is a hoax, but don't expect to hear that in the New York Times.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 16, 2006 01:20 PM (DwFzZ)
13
I revise my earlier estimate, Grizzley, You are Daft! Much fun to read. Tonka truck. Hee.
BTW, Re: Katrina. Some of those photos got a bit loopy too. Ever ask why we heard over and over again, they were trapped because they were too poor to own cars, and in photo after photo, you see drowned, submerged cars? Why is it no one's willing to admit that in any American city, there will be stubborn people who in the face of any disaster will say "I ain't leavin and you ain't gonna make me."? But hey, that's really off topic, and don't ask these things, they can get you in trouble.
Posted by: Ben at August 16, 2006 04:42 PM (04cQ2)
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August 14, 2006
The Show Must Go On
According to Reuters photographer Zohra Bensemra, an elderly injured woman lies injured in the ruins of her house, awaiting rescue as Bensemra
snaps these pictures.
Let's for a moment try to look past the staging elements that we've become accustomed to searching for over the past weeks.
Ignore for a moment the fact that a wounded elderly woman in a bombed out building is unlikely to be in the kind of physical condition needed to drag several pristine sofa pillows through the rubble and make a bed out of them. Look past the fact that she, in her weakened condition, has found a nearly spotless black blanket in the fine gray dust of a bombed out building to cover her legs against the 80 degree cold. Ignore the conveniently-placed bottled water she somehow found intact and had for the middle photo only.
Look past all this, and the total absence of any readily identifiable injury, to momentarily take Zohra Bensemra's word at face value that this is an injured, elderly woman lying in the rubble, that he seems to have stumbled across before help has arrived.
Now place yourself in Zohra Bensemra's shoes.
If you came across someone lying injured in the rubble, would you cry for assistance, seek to comfort her, or stop to determine which camera angle best captures this scene?
Would you come forward quickly and see how badly she is injured and try to render assistance, or would you compose an increasingly intimate montage of photos?
Reuters, no doubt, will offer the excuse that the photographer has the duty to capture the story, not to become part of it.
I'd like to ask Reuters when a photo-op becomes more important than basic humanity, but I'm afraid they'd be all too ready and willing with an answer.
Update: After thinking about it for a few minutes, I decided one element of these photos deserves more attention, so I updated the second photo to highlight the interesting detail.
According to the photographer's caption:
An injured Lebanese woman lies in her damaged house as she waits to be rescued during the first day of ceasefire, at Bint Jbail, east of the port city of Tyre (Soure) August 14, 2006. REUTERS/Zohra Bensemra (LEBANON)
If she "waits to be rescued" alone, who, then, is moving the bottled water in the second photo out of frame in the first and third pictures? Is it Gatorade's new fitness drink, "self-Propel?"
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1
Is this person alive? Rigor mortis?
Why do we bother looking?
Posted by: dc at August 14, 2006 02:22 PM (IzUdI)
Posted by: Bill Faith at August 14, 2006 03:17 PM (n7SaI)
3
Didn't she know she was being photographed? Couldn't she have fixed up a little and sweep the floor? What a pig.
Posted by: UncleZeb at August 14, 2006 03:47 PM (CUo3X)
4
self-propel..... good one.
Posted by: adamboysmom at August 14, 2006 05:14 PM (tJcGx)
5
The picture with the water bottle looks very strange. A little enlargement shows the bottle somehow suspended in mid-air with no apparent support from the woman's hand. You can quite clearly see all her fingers through the clear plastic and none are clutching the bottle. I'd say that it's been Photoshopped by the photographer but there's nothing to be gained by doing that. Maybe it's just perspective
Posted by: Wes at August 14, 2006 09:33 PM (IY0vC)
6
The picture with the water bottle looks very strange. A little enlargement shows the bottle somehow suspended in mid-air with no apparent support from the woman's hand.
I noticed the same thing. Nothing conclusive, but certainly looks odd.
Now for a photoshop that is really obvious, but needs to get more play, check out this post
http://www.rightwinged.com/2006/08/ny_times_busted_photoshopping.html
I'm obsessed and won't rest until someone at the NY Times is fired.
Posted by: RightWinged at August 14, 2006 10:45 PM (cZfGb)
7
It's clear she was gesturing with her arms in an attempt to get the photographer to help her.
As far as we know, he took pictures and left.
(Sure doesn't look like she's faking to me.)
Posted by: Chris at August 15, 2006 12:30 PM (58SoC)
8
I dont doubt that this woman may be in need of some assistance but the question I ask is "Is the assistance she needs already there and just waiting for the pictures to be taken?" Since as so many have pointed out the waterbottle mysteriously disappears in the first and third photos.
Posted by: 81 at August 15, 2006 12:53 PM (JSetw)
9
I'm glad that there are intelligent people out there that ask questions first before blindly believing a terrorist group. Israel does not target civilians and when was the last time you heard about a an Israeli suicide bomber or I.D.F. hiding in amoungst civilians. People of the world better wise up before more bad things happen because of terror groups deliberately using women children as shields. Does any one wonder why so many civilians die in lebonan.....possibly because the men are out putting off rockets near the building and it is then painted for a target.And don't forget as a result of 2 soldiers being kidnapped the whole north part of our country now lives in bomb shelters. Over 2000 rockets have landed in Israel and i think we have been extremely patient
Posted by: Liz at August 15, 2006 05:20 PM (6uiE9)
10
I agree with Wes. The water bottle looks shopped. Very strange.
Posted by: lady redhawk at August 15, 2006 05:25 PM (gZTX3)
11
Just like Passion of the Toys, the square throw pillow in the bottom photo is dust free, no mudstains, etc. Strange that it would be lying ever so peacefully like that in a "bombed out" house.
Posted by: TBOB at August 15, 2006 06:19 PM (ukBP3)
12
But why would Evian photoshop their product into this picture?
Or did Dasani do it? As if to say, "Evian is the water for dead old ladies."
This could be huge. Did you call the government? But they might be in on it!
Or...someobody picked up the water and drank it. Maybe they were refilling it for her. Or, she knocked it over on accident.
But, whatever the case, I'm with you, I would never, NEVER take the time to put pillows under a dying woman. Or give here a sip of water. That's just providing comfort to the enemy. And, if you look closely, notice that her left hand has moved during the series, at least enough to stick a knife in you.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 15, 2006 06:41 PM (DwFzZ)
13
Do you think she's an actor? Maybe it is Sean Penn in disguise? Or maybe a cockroach person? Whoever she is, she certainly is unworthy of pity, otherwise why would they have taken her out.
Posted by: Grizzly at August 15, 2006 06:43 PM (DwFzZ)
14
Perhaps not too surprisingly, Grizzly didn't bother to engage his brain before leaving his comments.
Let's see if we can guide him to the relevant part of the picture caption shall we?
An injured Lebanese woman lies in her damaged house
as she waits to be rescued during the first day of ceasefire, at Bint Jbail, east of the port city of Tyre (Soure) August 14, 2006. REUTERS/Zohra Bensemra (LEBANON)
An injured woman
waits to be rescued, and yet, the too-weak-to-move woman:
she is laying on sofa cushions, from furniture that does not appear to come from that roomis laying on a mattress pad covered by a clean blankethas her lower legs covered by a blanket has a bottle of water that appears and disappears by magic.
The obvious fact illustrated by these photos is that this woman was not waiting to be rescued. She was taken care of if ever injured at all, and thus the story presented in these photos is a lie.
Perhaps that is a concept loss on the simple.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 15, 2006 11:39 PM (BTdrY)
15
I was thinking about it. And you are right.
I know that if my grandma's house got blown up, I'd heave her onto some cushions (and not the clean ones!), toss a blanket on her, and then leave her to fend for herself.
One thing I know is that old folks will always take advantage of any kindness you show them. That's why I support ending social security. We should just dump them on an island somewhere with a bunch of guns, let them learn what it means to be free.
Rescued? Lazy ingrate has already been rescued! Can't you see the water that she had? What a fake photo!!!!
Posted by: Grizzly at August 16, 2006 10:27 AM (DwFzZ)
Posted by: Baldy at August 16, 2006 08:04 PM (vFS/o)
17
Thank you, Grizzly, for illustrating the point at hand. You wouldn't treat your grandmother that way? Neither would I.
That's the point. The people we are fighting are not us, and not like us. They don't think like us. Most importantly, they don't value life like us.
Well done.
Posted by: JPatterson at August 17, 2006 01:46 PM (0MKeX)
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August 11, 2006
Philadelphia Daily Delusions
If I wrote the hare-brained editorial that appeared in the
Philadelphia Daily News today,
I'd want it left unsigned as well.
A fisking, anyone?
THESE PEOPLE have no shame. Their contempt for democracy is so great they will stop at nothing to undermine it. Their adherence to fundamentalist beliefs that blinds them to reality is frightening. They must be stopped.
And that's just the Republicans.
Nothing like getting your mind-numbed partisanship out front.
Let's start with Vice President Dick Cheney.
Yesterday, Cheney bashed those who voted for Democrat Ned Lamont in the Connecticut Senate primary, claiming that these votes would encourage "al Qaeda types" to think that "they can break the will of the American people."
The idea is that since 18-year incumbent Joe Lieberman lost based on his support for Iraq, Americans opposing the war are waving a white flag of surrender to terrorists.
This is stunningly ignorant logic, as well as annoyingly consistent with the Bush administration's fundamentalist myth that Iraq had ties to al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden - a claim by now well-discounted, most notably by a presidential commission.
Mr. Anonymous Editorialist, are you trying to tell us that Ned Lamont's cries to pull the troops home now—exactly what Osama Bin Laden, Ayman Zawahiri, and the late Abu Musab Zarqawi have called for—is not the exact position of the world's leading terrorists?
The simple fact of the matter is that no matter how you try to shade it, the headlong retreat—or "redeployment" or whatever you want to call it—favored by the radical left is precisely what al Qaeda and similar terrorist groups desire. We know that, because they've said so, repeatedly. The only stunning ignorance displayed here is your own ignorance of the fact that both the terrorists and the Democrats agree that they want the U.S to retreat from the Middle East and stop killing terrorists.
Further, it is precisely the headlong "redeployment" that John Murtha called for from Somalia and heeded by Bill Clinton that resulted in the terror attacks of September 11.
Dead terrorists don't cause problems, and retreating from live terrorists inspires them to attempt greater acts of terror. What part of that logic are you incapable of understanding?
In addition, Mr. Anonymous Editorialist has his fingers crossed and hoped no one would actual check his facts, which would reveal that the 9/11 Commission Report did not say that Saddam's Iraq did not have ties to Osama's al Qaeda. In fact, it said something else entirely.
Bin Ladin also explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to Hussein's secular regime. Bin Ladin had in fact at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded Bin Ladin to cease this support and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting Bin Ladin in 1994. Bin Ladin is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded. There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after Bin Ladin had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States. Whether Bin Ladin and his organization had roles in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center and the thwarted Manila plot to blow up a dozen U.S. commercial aircraft in 1995 remains a matter of substantial uncertainty.
Communications between senior officers of organizations are ties, ladies and gentlemen, whether or not they cooperated on attacks against the United States.
Iraq may not have played a role in the terror attack against America on 9/11, but al Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq certainly had ties to one another dating back to 1994, as stated by then CIA Director George Tenet:
- Our understanding of the relationship between Iraq and al-Qa'ida is evolving and is based on sources of varying reliability. Some of the information we have received comes from detainees, including some of high rank.
- We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and al-Qa'ida going back a decade.
- Credible information indicates that Iraq and al-Qa'ida have discussed safe haven and reciprocal nonaggression.
- Since Operation Enduring Freedom, we have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of al-Qa'ida members, including some that have been in Baghdad.
- We have credible reporting that al-Qa'ida leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire W.M.D. capabilities. The reporting also stated that Iraq has provided training to al-Qa'ida members in the areas of poisons and gases and making conventional bombs.
- Iraq's increasing support to extremist Palestinians coupled with growing indications of a relationship with al-Qa'ida, suggest that Baghdad's links to terrorists will increase, even absent U.S. military action.
Since the 9/11 Commission Report was issued, even more documents have shined a light on the connections between al Qaeda, their Taliban hosts, and Iraq. Mr. Anonymous Editorialist can say Iraq had no ties to al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden if he wants, but rational people looking at the still-accumulating evidence will be hard-pressed to draw that same conclusion.
But back to the editorial:
And yet the presidential fog machine has continued to belch out its Iraq-al Qaeda-link fumes to the extent that a recent poll suggests that 64 percent of Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein had strong links to al Qaeda. More people than ever now believe, according to a new poll, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
No ties in the preceding paragraph has been walked back to "strong links" in this one. I've give this to the writer; when it comes to headlong retreat, he practices what he preaches.
It goes without saying that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction; it is a simple incontrovertible fact. He used thousands of them in his 1980-88 war with Iran, and gassed thousands of Kurds in a single four-day strike on Halabja in 1988. Iraq maintained and declared WMD stockpiles at the end of the 1991 Gulf War, and an Iraqi general says his men moved WMDs out of Iraq into Syria in the weeks before our 2003 invasion. Anonymous may discount it, but as evidence slowly accumulates, even more people will believe in Iraq's WMD capability because it did exist, and it was never fully accounted for.
Ironically, the number who believe in the al Qaeda link is almost precisely the same number of Americans - 62 percent - who believe we are bogged down in Iraq.
For Cheney - and other Republicans like GOP National Chairman Ken Mehlman - to suggest that those Americans are encouraging terrorism is reprehensible.
And yet, we have to go back to the essential fact that John Murtha's 1993 call for retreat from Somalia is directly responsible for Osama Bin Laden's decision to attack America. I certainly know it is not the Democrat's intent to encourage terrorism, but that fact—and it is a fact—remains that that is exactly what their position has done, and will continue to do.
Cheney's comments came out a day before British intelligence officials announced they had thwarted a major terrorist attack. Surely Cheney was aware of the plot and the work to thwart it, and was no doubt aware of the timing of yesterday's announcement.
To exploit a very real terror threat that could have led to major casualties, and to even indirectly implicate Americans who were exercising their democratic right by going to the polls and making a choice borders on the criminal, to say nothing of the insane.
Has Cheney completely lost it?
Mr. Anonymous has no shame. While more than eager to attack Cheney for politicizing events, he studiously avoids his own Party's attempts to politicize things as well. Should we wait until his next editorial comes out calling Teddy Kennedy or Harry Reid insane or asking if they have "completely lost it?" Probably not.
The latest terror scare is upsetting enough: It is bound to lead to havoc and chaos both domestically and internationally. It could damage the economy if fears on flying are sustained. It reopens the profound wounds of 9/11, a scab we should figure by now will never completely heal.
But the real terror is this: While our Vacationer- in-Chief and his vice president shut down dissent, and discourage questions about the way our government has directed our intelligence and military resources toward a single target in Iraq, we are no closer to understanding or dismantling the threat of al Qaeda.
They "shut down dissent," eh? I spent all this effect to fisk an overly-dramatic editorial, and the guy who wrote it will be inside a Halliburton-run concentration camp before he can even read this. Darn.
Interestingly enough, it now seems that how our President has led our intelligence and military resources may have had a direct impact in thwarting this latest attack, as the very intelligence programs that the New York Times is trying to destroy may have provided crucial intelligence. Of course, ensconced in irons in a cell somewhere near Allentown, Mr. Anonymous will never know or admit to that.
Cheney's remarks underscore just how unsophisticated our understanding of terrorism is. We have no more understanding of the global forces at work that lead so many to want to bomb and destroy innocent lives than we did five years ago.
America's latest crisis is not what happened in Connecticut; it's what was going to happen in airplanes over the Atlantic.
The immoral and ridiculous claims coming out of the Bush administration's reign of error could ultimately be responsible for the kind of casualties that al Qaeda can only dream of.
Actually, terrorism is very simple to understand. It isn't a matter of nuance. Islamists want the whole world to subscribe to their way of thinking, and those that don't, they want dead. That is why Islam partitions the world into Dar al Islam, the House of Submission for the true beleivers, and Dar al Harb, the House of War, where infidels must convert, or die. It's actually quite straightforward. Even a Sea Monkey can grasp the basic concept, even if a Philadelphia Daily News editorialist finds it too taxing.
Claims don't kill people, Mr. Anonymous Editorialist.
Terrorists do.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:11 PM
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1
One of the Dems running for congress here, in an ad, talks about "keeping our promises" to our troops and veterans. How about the promise that, once we put our troops in harm's way, we give them everything and every bit of support they need to succeed in their mission?
Posted by: SouthernRoots at August 11, 2006 02:58 PM (jHBWL)
2
Here's another
resource to use when debunking claims that everyone
knew prior to the Iraq invasion that Saddam had no WMDs/al Qadea ties.
Posted by: Granddaddy Long Legs at August 11, 2006 04:06 PM (alXDI)
3
I think this editorial got it just right;Cheney's logic is ignorant. Neither he nor you have any basis,none,to call fellow Americans terrorism enablers. Your attempts to parlay weak evidence as a firm basis for action is at least the same, consistently ignorant logic displayed by the Veep. Small wonder you cheer Bush calling three countries the "axis of evil" and then believe him as he attacked the least dangerous of the three. And now,has limited ability to deal with NoKo and Iran because he's spent our capital so foolishly.
Nice try,but no sale.
Posted by: TJM at August 11, 2006 04:46 PM (F9hZP)
4
TJM, you need to take a trip around the left side of the blogosphere before you make such inane statements. Or pick up a copy of the New York Times. The biggest terrorist enabler is Pinch Suhlzberger and his right-hand man, Bill Keller. And when you get done, take a look at what is happening today at the United Nations. I would say that forcing Israel into a cease fire is about as enabling as you can get. Appeasement of terrorists is dhimmitude and dhimmitude is enabling. Then there are John Murtha, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Max Cleland, Dennis Kusinich and their MSM mouthpieces, oh and speaking of mouthpieces, Reuters and the AP lead the list. And you might want to take a look at the translated Saddamm documents and some of the history of Iraq, before you call it the "weakest" of the three.
Posted by: Sara (Squiggler) at August 11, 2006 06:15 PM (FwPlP)
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9/11 was not related to Iraq.
Al Queda was not related to Iraq.
By your logic, WE have "significant ties" to Saddam/Iraq, and Bin Laden/Al Queda. Yer' splittin' hairs.
Our foray into Iraq, no matter what the perceived reason at the time (true conservatisim would have kept us from invading based on the lack of a reasonably substantiated relationship between Iraq and 9/11 and/or Al Queda), has been a failure when judged against any criteria - conservative or liberal.
Why would withdrawal NOT be a viable option at this point?
Exactly what is the mission of our troops? Being policemen in the midst of a Civil War? What is gained or lost by leaving? What is gained or lost by staying? More of the same?
We are fighting the wrong war, and the only patriotic thing to do is to redeploy our assets against out true enemies.
Only a looser who refuses to see the facts for what they are sticks with such a dog of a decision. Your support for continuation of this debacle seems to be based primarily on national pride. Pride shouldn't be the basis for such expensive and self-destructive decisions.
Posted by: smafdy at August 11, 2006 08:09 PM (hsxg7)
6
My personal opinion on what may help win the war on terror, since everyone always mentions him when discussions arise on the subject, is to make a concerted and honest effort, on the part of all institutions and organiations concerned, even to include any and all individuals interested, to hunt down OSAMA BIN LADEN. FIND HIM, FIND HIM. BRING HIM TO NEW YORK IN IRONS, GIVE HIM A FAIR AND IMPARTIAL TRIAL, AND THEN HANG THAT BASTARD.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 11, 2006 08:30 PM (VYkB5)
7
This whole war on terror is pretty interesting: it's over *when* we catch/kill them all. The question is just: all of whom? What's the definition of a terrorist? Are they all muslims? Do they all live in Iraq/Iran/Saudi-Arabia?
"Claims don't kill people, Mr. Anonymous Editorialist.
Terrorists do."
And, if USA kills people, doesn't that make it a terror state?
Killing solves nothing in the long run, not even killing "those damn terrorists". If nothing else, history has proven that right. Eg the first philosopher (how is his name "questionable content"?) was killed, maybe he was called a terrorist in his time as well, but that didn't stop his ideas from spreading.
No matter how hard to try, the only way to really solve any problem is to look at the root causes and find out what *you* are adding to the problem.
The only person you can really change is yourself. Trying to change others has never worked and never will; maybe you should read some Ralph Waldo Emerson or Stephen R. Covey.
Posted by: Arttu at August 12, 2006 05:41 AM (cZFZe)
8
Why would withdrawal NOT be a viable option at this point?
Perfectly viable if the image you want to project to terrorists around the world is weakness and vulnerability.
Terrorists, like the Soviet, view the world through a different lense.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 12, 2006 08:01 AM (c/xwT)
9
"The only person you can really change is yourself" Lovely sentiment; how do I change myself when I've been turned to ashes in the basement of the World Trade Center? By the way, there are more registered Independent voters in Connecticut then Dems and Republicans combined; so Lieberman is hardly finished.
Posted by: Tom TB at August 12, 2006 10:30 AM (wZLWV)
10
Let's get down to brass tacks. It is unquestionably the Right, including Cofederate Yankee, that hates America and wishes the worst for the troops.
The war in Iraq is not in our national interest. I challenge anyone--ANYONE--to make a reasoned, compelling, fact-based argument that explains how I am safer as an American because of the Iraq invasion. Afghanistan is another story--a righteous bust, and one that is being screwed up. I'm talking about Iraq.
If the war is not in our national interest, the deaths of our soldiers are pointless and entirely avoidable.
When the Right argues for the prolongation of the war, they are directly arguing in favor of the continued death of our patriotic men and women in uniform. If you want the war to continue and there's no viable national interest served by it, then all you want is to see our boys and girls killed.
I'm sick to death of the Right telling me what I think and feel. It's my turn. Confederate Yankee, you hate America and everything we stand for. I can tell because you argue in favor of pointless death for the members of our armed services, and you lobby endlessly for the continued undermining of our country's moral high ground. You like torture because it makes America hated around the world, and you like that. I don't know why; I don't understand at all why the Right is so unpatriotic as to want to destroy our position among the family of nations as a beacon of fairness and democracy around the world, but it's what you want. You revel in it.
Finally, what is this bullshit I keep hearing about how the terrorists actually want us out of Iraq, and, thus, ending the war is playing into their hands? Are you freakin' kidding me? The last thing they want is for us to bring our soldiers home to help protect our borders. If we brought our soldiers home and enlisted them in the task of protecting airports and seaports, we would be impregnable. Not a single terrorist would have a chance at doing anything here. They LOVE it that we're over there; that way, they get to kill our soldiers.
Of course, that's the way you like it. I don't know why you and your ilk hate America so much, Confederate Yankee, but you do. It needs to come to an end.
Posted by: Michael at August 12, 2006 11:22 PM (2Iao5)
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Michael:
Calm down, surely you must realize that these people have never served.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 12, 2006 11:33 PM (/0FMj)
12
Mike;
17 years and counting in the US Navy doing intelligence and planning operations....you?
Posted by: monkeyboy at August 14, 2006 06:55 AM (w4rJE)
13
So, I worked at Greely Hall, wtf, at least I use my own name. I have a plan, where's yours?
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 14, 2006 01:34 PM (rUe4F)
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August 10, 2006
Stern, But Stupid
German
Confederate Yankee reader Niko translates this response from a letter to the photo editor of
Stern magazine, a major German news magazine. The Editor-in-Chief, Andreas Trampe,
attacks the reader for questioning
Stern about "Green Helmet" (article translation available at
EU Referendum), the designated dead baby carrier for Hezbollah in Lebanon since 1996:
Dear Mr ...,
As Editor-in-Chief of Stern's Picturedesk I write this in response to
your harsh letter dating from August 5th, 2006. So what is it that you
don't like about our reporting? What do you find lurid about that
report [i.e. the initial report depicting Green Helmet as "some rescue
worker"]? In the first two pages we show the carnage and victims in
Qana, the next two depict the carnage and victims in Haifa. The
following picture pages are equally balanced, even more so the text
which, obviously, you didn't bother to read. There's no dispute that
the Israeli air raid on that building in Qana did happen, there's also
no dispute that it caused a lot of civilian victims. So what's wrong
about that? What about it appears to be staged? Did Hezbollah dare the
Israelis to conduct the air raid in your opinion? Did Hezbollah
initiate the bomb raid on their own? Did the Palestinian [sic!]
civilian casualties never happen? Where's the faking? We did not
conduct a story about Green Helmet Ali, even less so a lurid one! That
man is featured in just a single picture and a single caption. Even if
that man were indeed to parade dead children intentionally before the
eyes of the world, those children were dead nonetheless, killed in the
raid. And sadly, they won't rise again even when fervent supporters of
Israel's politics pull out red herrings to distract from actual
events.
Your accusations of anti-Semitism on our part, or that we were hoping
for the destruction of Israel, are the biggest bullshit I've heard in
a long time (leaving aside the fact that it's factually wrong).
Israeli victims are to be bemoaned equally, the death of people in
Haifa and Jerusalem is lamentable in the same way. But crude
conspiracy theories seem to be the latest trend. Thanks to upstanding
internet bloggers. They're sitting in Norway, England or Germany, and,
of course, they're much more intelligent, smart and incredulously
independent. They possess knowledge of remote locations and events,
they're capable of classifying complex matters and doing quick
research. There you go, brave new digital world !!!
We, however, prefer to do it the old way, we send journalists and
photographers around the world for large sums of money so that they
can speak on location and directly to the people. For instance, with
Green Helmet Ali, who will answer those allegations put out, and he'll
tell our readers where he's from, what's his name, and what actually
happened on that day in Qana. That, of course, you won't find
originally reported in internet blogs. What you will find, though, is
some super post from some smartass guy about how Green Helmet Ali once
again fooled the whole world because, in actual fact, he's a secret
agent of Hezbollah. I hope you enjoy the reading.
Andreas Trampe
stern Bildredaktion / stern picturedesk
PS What was it again about intelligence and ideology?
Andreas Trampe
Stern-Picturedesk
Am Baumwall 11
20444 Hamburg
Phone: +49-40-3703-4122
Fax: +49-40-3703-5685
Mail: Trampe.Andreas@stern.de
Editor-in-Chief Trampe tells us that the crude analysis and questions brought about by bloggers about the incident in Qana isn't up to the standards of the highly trained, well-paid media on the front lines of the war in Lebanon.
Perhaps Trampe should save his self-righteous indignation, at least until he can explain this video footage (from German TV, no less) of "Green Helmet" directing the body of a child to be pulled from an ambulance, placed on a stretcher, and then paraded in front of the media.
I have no doubt that the fine media reporters and photographers in Lebanon are paid "large sums of money" as the editor states, but you might think that someone being paid so much might feel the obligation to tell the entire story, at least as long as they are unbiased, as these many Arab Muslim stringers covering a war with Israel certainly are. Of course, I'm just trying to clarify complex matters by doing quick research from another country, so what do I know?
(Note: replaced text link with Youtube video)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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August 09, 2006
Ghosts in the Media Machine
Bloggers—and to a much lesser extent some media outlets—have paid considerable attention to specific examples of media manipulation in the war being fought between Hezbollah and the IDF in Lebanon and Israel, but we seem be under-covering the overall framing of the media's coverage, particularly when it comes to the subject matter chosen for coverage.
This comes into sharp relief when contrasted against the coverage we've become used to from the war in Iraq, particularly as it relates to the media coverage allowed and provided by two different insurgencies in Lebanon's Hezbollah and Iraq's predominately Sunni insurgency.
In Iraq, we've become somewhat used to embedded reporters reporting from both sides of the conflict with a fairly wide latitude to operate. Stringers, both print media and photographers, have occasionally embedded within the insurgency, providing coverage from ambushes and sniper's nests alike. The insurgents themselves often seem to be media hungry, filming operations themselves and often releasing the tapes to the media or producing them on DVDs for public consumption in Iraq and throughout the Middle East.
By and large, the vast majority of video reporting allowed and encouraged by the Iraqi insurgency is combat-related. IED ambushes are particularly popular, often released as montages set to Islamist music as propaganda videos. The Iraqi insurgents have often seemed intent on portraying themselves as rebel forces actively waging a war for the people, whether or not the people would always agree.
Hezbollah, however, seems to be fighting a different kind of media war.
Hezbollah has far more control over their battlespace than does the Iraqi insurgency, and has a much tighter rein on the media reporting coming out of Lebanon. Mainstream media outlets have let this be know albeit comparatively quietly, as I mentioned in the comments of Jefferson Morely's Washington Post blog entry, The Qana Conspiracy Theory:
Anderson Cooper has already admitted that his crew has been handled by Hezbollah media minders, and CNN's Nic Robertson has openly admitted his coverage on July 18 was stage-managed by Hezbollah from start to finish. Times' Christopher Allbritton has said that Hezbollah has copies of every journalist's passport, and has "hassled many and threatened one" to cover-up what journalists have seen of Hezbollah's rocket launching operations. CBS's Elizabeth Palmer admits to being handled by Hezbollah, and being allowed to only see what Hezbollah wants them to see. They are the voices of a few, expressing the experiences of the many.
Israel Insider chronicled these disturbing examples of media control, but the media at large has been loath to make the level of Hezbollah "minding" over their reporting widely known.
With this control and the apparent complicity of many media stringers both Arab and western, Hezbollah has chosen to fight a completely different kind of media war than they one we have seen in Iraq. A review of the Yahoo! photostreams (compilations of various media photographers' work released throughout the day) coming out of Iraq and Lebanon paint two very different pictures. While the Iraqi insurgency often sought to crave media attention (especially when it was more active as an insurgency in 2004 and 2005, as opposed to today's more conflict between Sunni and Shiiite Iraqis), Hezbollah's tightly-controlled media war seeks to portray Hezbollah itself as something of a ghost.
Scan the photos coming out of Hezbollah-controlled Lebanon, and you'll see and unending stream of dramatic photos of dead women and children and anguished rescue workers climbing through the remains of bombed-out residential buildings, and you will see heart-rending photos of toys in the rubble. You will see mourning. You will see pain. You will see a civilian infrastructure in tatters.
What you will not see, except in very rare cases, is Hezbollah.
The "Party of God," well-known for their parades of armed masked men in the past, have vanished into the ether. You will see no Hezbollah fighters brandishing their weapons with bravado. You will see no photos of Hezbollah's rocket launchers or rockets prepared to fire upon Israel's civilian population. You will see no photographs of shattered launchers or weapons caches or even fighting aged men amid the rubble. The media itself quietly reports that anyone who does take such pictures may be killed, though you wouldn't know it from the amount of attention that disturbing detail has received in the press.
Hezbollah is fighting the Victim's War, hiding behind civilians that they set up as targeted pawns by firing rockets from inside Lebanon's villages, cites, and towns, from outside apartment buildings, hospitals and schools in residential neighborhoods.
It is a war of cowards, largely covered by sympathetic Arab Muslim stringers and their Hezbollah minders who determine what can and what cannot be reported; a war in which the "professional" media is all too complicit.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
CY- your are right on. Keep up the good work. Your blog is now on my daily list. Thanks.
Posted by: Evinx at August 09, 2006 10:48 AM (TK7OU)
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The fact that your reporting is 'managed' by someone outside the organization is one of the most essential aspects of the actual reporting. A disclaimer should be required just as if your wife was a subject of the story - the reporter has a bias, to stay alive, that impacts the story. That seems like a source of bias just as strong as when writing about one's wife.
Good work on this CY! keep the pressure on. Reporting should be free, and when it can't be everyone seeing the piece should know what made it possible - complicity with terrorists.
Posted by: Sweetie at August 09, 2006 04:57 PM (lXpPq)
3
>> "What you will not see, except in very rare cases, is Hezbollah."
I think you are right.
However, the following may be an exception.
Aljazeera Flying Object downed by Hezbollah missile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJsN2eGiOyM&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJsN2eGiOyM
In mid-July, Aljazeera caught on tape something falling out of the sky over Beruit. It seemed to be spontaneous and not staged. The second part of the video clip shows the fallen object on the ground in some brush next to what looks like a service station.
The interesting part is the group of 5 man who appear to be working as a team. They are in the Aljazeera video clip. All are in civilian clothes and are men of fighting age.
Whether or not they are Hezbollah combattants, or supporters, I cannot say with certainty. But take a closer look and tell me what you see.
* * *
1. A bearded man in a dark vest appears next to the downed object which looks like a fuselage (a large pipe-shapped object) with a blast hole in it.
2. Alongside him, a barefooted man in shorts and white undershirt seems to be inspecting the object and acts as if he knows the other men in the group.
3. A balding man, with moustache, also comes down to the object. He makes a call on his cell phone while the other two men move away.
4. A young man carrying a blue vest and a blue helmet appears behind the moustached man. He moves to one side and we can see that he is led by the barefooted man to a place several yards behind the object, and away from the Aljazeera camera. The two stand behind what looks like a fence; they don't appear to be inspecting the object. They look like they moved away to talk.
Meanwhile the Aljazeera camera kept rolling. Then there is a jump cut. The young man reappears and walks past the camera and up some steps toward a vehicle. Close behind the barefooted man follows. The young man passes the man in the dark vest and the moustached man.
5. A man with a small video camera is at the vehicle's driverside. He is smoking a cigarette and talking across the roof of the car.
Beside him, at the passenger door, the young man is quiet but appears to be involved the object of the conversation. The barefooted man has followed them to the vehicle; he moves around the rear to the other side and appears to gesture toward the young man. That seems to have settled the discussion. The video man finishes his cigarette and appears to get into the car. The young man, too. The camera shows that they had been in conference with the moustached man with the cell phone.
My impression is that the barefooted man was "senior" to the young man. It looked to me that he had taken the young man aside to talk about something; then at the car he seemed to give permission, or reassurances, that it was okay for the young man to go with the other men in the car. The young man did not appear to do much talking but expected to go along.
His blue vest and blue helment were UN-blue but I did not see any UN markings.
The vested man and the barefooted man both appeared to be familiar with the fallen object. That is, they seemed to size it up pretty quickly. That's my impression from the body language. Also, in tandem, they seemed to direct the Aljazeera cameraman to the blast hole in the side of the object. They did not seem to be concerned about any danger -- explosives or whatever. The object did not appear to be on fire or hot to the touch.
The moustached man and the video man looked like a pair in that the video man was driving the car that he was getting into. Possibly they were with Aljazeera. Maybe scouts? The first part of the video spotted the object as it fell. But the latter part of the clip was at the site where the object landed.
The vested man seemed to move away and I don't think I saw him in the video clip after his first appearance. The young man and the barefooted man appear like a pair. It is possible that the young man hitched a ride to wherever the moustached man's car was heading; or maybe they agreed to drop him someplace.
It is uncertain, but this video clip seems to show three elements working together.
First, the Aljazeera cameraman put the team on video. Second, the moustached man was accompanied by the video man who looked like the driver of their vehicle. Third, the young man joined them after being instructed by the barefooted man.
Speculation: Could be pretty innocent. The barefooted man called-in the location of the fallen object. The moustached man got to it with his Aljazeera cameraman. His driver carried an additional video camera. The young man may have been an "emergency worker" of some sort. The barefooted man did not look like he was dressed for running around so maybe he got the young man a ride instead of taking the time to get dressed to drive him himself.
On the other hand ...
Posted by: F. Rottles at August 10, 2006 01:31 AM (jcZ2c)
4
Re: UN blue vest and helmet sans markings?
Not all countrys involved with the UN have markings.
Dave
Posted by: Dave at August 10, 2006 06:14 AM (T5XyM)
5
Hezzbollah media control! Aided no doubt by all those Arab-Americans I see shaking hands at the Academy Awards!
Or maybe the Arab-American spy on the submarine?
If there are credible charges to be made, these ain't them.
Posted by: skip at August 10, 2006 07:55 AM (JxU2K)
6
The video shows dark piling clouds of smoke not unlike what would be produced above a burning tire dump or from a source of rubber/oil.
The second part of the video shows the site of the pipe-shaped object with no smoke cloud and only a very small patch of flames. The flames are easy to miss. The nearby vegetation did not look burned or even singed. There are neatly stacked tiles right beside it. If it dropped where the camera filmed it, this object fell pretty harmlessly.
At the end of the video clip, the camera follows the men to their vehicle and the cloud of smoke can be see in the distance.
The pipe-shaped object appears to have fallen a mile or so from the place that caused the dark clouds of smoke.
Posted by: F. Rottles at August 10, 2006 09:10 AM (jcZ2c)
7
Last night the same thought struck me. We have seen no pictures titled "Hizballah fighters fire katusha rockets at Israel" or "Hizballah fighters killed by Israeli bombs."
Its all been dead children and crying civilians. The MSM is being used to carry enemy propganda, and they don't care.
Posted by: monkeyboy at August 10, 2006 09:42 AM (w4rJE)
8
Hezzbollah media control
Yeah, Hezbollah does control the media in Southern Lebanon. If you're a reporter and you've got Mohammed Al-Jihadi, the local Hezbollah morale officer standing behind your shoulder holding an AK, the message is pretty clear. We've already seen CNN's reporters intimidated into one-sided coverage; they later even admitted it.
Posted by: Jordan at August 10, 2006 02:58 PM (GKMZm)
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August 07, 2006
Shaking the Dead
Not a PhotoShop, but quite obviously staged for Reuters cameraman Ali Hashisho's benefit, adding drama to the already dramatic picture of a hand protruding from the rubble. Pay special attention to the section of concrete-reinforcing iron rebar just over the victim's hand.
Another photo from the scene, this time from Mohammed Zaatari of the Associated Press. Notice the iron rebar has been bent out of the way, moved up and to the viewer's left, but that the rescuer's grasp on the victims' hand has been reestablished.
Another photo from Mohammed Zaatari. Perhaps it is merely an illusion due to how this photo was cropped, but it appears as if the rescuer may have moved slightly forward so that his hand is more parallel with the bottom of the photo, and that the rebar appears to have been bent downward to facilitate this pose.
Why would a rescuer move a piece of rebar two or possibly three times, reestablishing contact with the hand of a corpse each time, if not to create a more dramatic photo op for the Reuters and Associated cameramen assembled?
Update: A brilliant catch. The Passion of the Toys.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:34 PM
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Posted by: Bill Faith at August 07, 2006 03:50 PM (n7SaI)
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FWIW, that ain't like any rebar we use here in the US. The stuff we got here is hardened steel and don't bend so easy. In fact, you'd burn through a few Sawzall blades trying to cut a piece of the stuff. That looks more like a copper water pipe.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 07, 2006 04:23 PM (c/xwT)
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Yankee, your understanding of the photos above shows little understanding of how war zone and disaster photos are taken.
And, you object to a piece of rebar being moved?
Think about his for a second. Having photogprahed numerous disaster scenes myself (including Ground Zero) I can tell you without fail that you are barking up the wrong tree.
Why? Because to get to the victim in the picture, odds are that many peices of cement and rebar and other items were moved.
Is the photo posed? Yes. But, it is a very common pose amongst disaster photographers to convey scale (a childs hand for example to an adult hand) and color differentiation.
You obvioiusly don't understand the real world function of the picture. The first thing that every rescue worker (and some photographers if they are the first to find a victim) do once a body is found, is to grasp the hand to see if it is warm or cold. You know, alive or dead. As fate would have it, usually, it's the hands or the feet that stick out first. And, sometimes you find someone alive and that person is pulled out.
As a documentary photographer, this shot seems fairly common. It's also a cultural image. Touching a dead person is an act of serioius spiritual compassion in many other cultures. It is saying "you have been found, you are being taken care of..."
But, focusing upon the movement of the rebar, as you have, as some indication of overt posing, is just petty. As I said, its probable that many pounds of rubble was moved to get to the hand in the first place.
Do you object to that too?
Posted by: Camera A at August 07, 2006 07:02 PM (Vp1bn)
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And, all of this is an inteesting discussion, but it soretly forgets one omportant fact:
People are still dying. Israeli's and Lebanonese.
I think Yankee, you object more to the existence of pictures of the dead than to the content and the fact that propaganda points are being scored with the dead.
Reality check. When there are dead bodies in a war, there is nothing you can do to make that pain go down easier. And, there is plenty that others can do to ensure that the dead are not forgotten in the fog of war.
Posted by: Camera A at August 07, 2006 07:09 PM (Vp1bn)
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Camera A is giving us all a lesson on staging pictures for human consumption. Like a move production with numerous “takes” of the same scene, to get just the right movement, the right dialog, the right nuance, the right shadows and lights, disaster photos must show drama or pathos to get sold. And what Camera A is telling us is that he knows how to get his pictures sold.
As a documentary photographer, this shot seems fairly common. It's also a cultural image. Touching a dead person is an act of serioius [sic] spiritual compassion in many other cultures. It is saying "you have been found, you are being taken care of..."
Viola! That is the message that Camera A is selling. A shot of pathos; a shot of the horrors of war. Because otherwise we would not know that war involved killing and that war is horrible. Good God! (back of the hand to the forehead) I would not have know that except for Camera AÂ’s explanation. What a brilliants, original insight!
By the way Camera A, how many hands have to touch a lifeless corpse before we know the personsÂ’ dead? One, two, three or as many as you can find?
Posted by: Moenyrunner at August 07, 2006 09:15 PM (qUOeH)
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I have a better question.
Why is the child's head wrapped in cloth? Cloth that was apparently wrapped around the head before the body was sullied by the rubble on top of it? Funny things happen to loose textiles in explosions, but based upon other evidences of late, one has to wonder.
I mean, if the left can believe in 9-11 conspiracies, I can believe in a liberal, left- wing biased media that is so willing to concoct an anti-American story that it is capable of anything.
In view of Al Taqyyia, the work of Muslim stringers in the Middle East cannot be trusted.
Posted by: Warren Bonestel at August 07, 2006 10:45 PM (FshOV)
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the whole point is that these images are being manipulated .. and that we must be suspicious of everything we see .. after all these images are coming from a totalitarian society (southern lebanon is under complete Hezbo control.)
Posted by: johnny nubian at August 07, 2006 10:55 PM (eZsDK)
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Is it possible that someone (the guy with the black watch on his left wrist) is holding the iron rebar in his right hand, using it as a tool (crowbar)?
Posted by: PEPPI at August 08, 2006 07:41 AM (W7W7X)
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Check out the apparently faked pictures at Gateway Pundit - these ones ran in the NYT. LOL.
Posted by: Specter at August 08, 2006 09:18 AM (ybfXM)
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It amazes me that the same hapless Arabs who can't win a war or make the desert bloom have now become the masters, the originators, of media manipulation. But it must be true, because Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC exec and DC correspondent for the Jerusalem Post says so. He after all would know.
The Arabs are shaping world opinion with this trickery too, as any number of polls will show ( We know it can't be the Israeli bombing, or course, because we now know that is all photoshop).
The fact that the MSM has been overrun by Jihadists and Hezzbollah sympathizers is never so transparent as when we tune in every year to see those Årab-Americans handing each other awards on Oscar night.
Posted by: skip at August 08, 2006 09:19 AM (JxU2K)
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Question.... Why is the childs head covered?
Answer... Its probably the same poor child that was used in the other staged photos from Quana. You see, they read the blogs also, sooooo they need to adapt to a new tactic. God forbid its the same little girl that was loaded and unloaded in the ambulance.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at August 08, 2006 11:49 AM (elhVA)
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You guys have just totally completely lost it, haven't you?
Posted by: Pere Ubu at August 08, 2006 12:39 PM (i2Ofv)
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What bother me in this photo, more then the fact of trying to give a handshake to a corpse, is a something that looks like a zombie head in the lower part of the photo. It is best seen on the lowest shot. Taking in to the account that bodies, in this part of the world, usually buried wrapped in a cloth, it looks to me very much like someone digging out a mass grave. Does anyone else have the same filling?
Posted by: huyakin at August 08, 2006 01:41 PM (COdwP)
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Photo's have been staged since the Camera was around. A lot of the photo's you see of the U.S. Civil War were staged and I read accounts of photographers moving the bodies around so they can drape them out of Devil's Den just to get a more graphic picture.
That doesn't make it right, but it's been done for a long time.
The problem I have is with the Overall picture being portrayed. Isreal has every right to defend itself against a TERRORIST orginazition. The Media plays like it's Hezbolla that is the downtrodden. The MENTAL picture is worse then any others, staged photo's add to the false picture created.
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 08, 2006 01:56 PM (elhVA)
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I agree with CameraA, It is not unseemly to prep a photograph for publication provided you do not chnage the factual evidence of that photo. Rueters stringer Hajj went way beyond preparing a photo for publication went he manupulating the image for dramatic effect. It is unfortunate but the ethics of the photographer must be qualified just like the qualifications of writers and of course bloggers.
Posted by: ron at August 08, 2006 03:59 PM (fBcmZ)
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All photos before about 1930 were 'staged' They HAD to be just to GET them on film. It took LONG exposure time, back then.
But the thoughts that this is the SAME child, the hand is the right size, are very chilling... and creepy. BUT, It wouldn't surprise me at all.
Posted by: sometruth at August 08, 2006 05:17 PM (0vHmq)
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It is not unseemly to prep a photograph for publication
I think this statement says more about your headspace than anything else.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 08, 2006 06:00 PM (c/xwT)
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skip wrote:
It amazes me that the same hapless Arabs who can't win a war or make the desert bloom have now become the masters, the originators, of media manipulation.
You're absolutely right, after all, making the desert bloom, or winning a war, is just as difficult as manipulating the media, or running Photoshop.
Perhaps they didn't manage to win a war, or make the desert bloom because they are
freaking corrupt; then you wonder why the Gaza strip is still a hell hole. After paying for the fancy houses, the Mercedez & BMWs, and vacations, you don't end up with much for the population, do you?
Lay off the weed, and then perhaps you'll be able to remember
these videos. I guess the neocons were responsible for al-Durah too.
Posted by: dna at August 09, 2006 08:27 PM (xjpGM)
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