May 25, 2007
What They Don't Let You See
Stare at this.
Now look back again.
I want this seared, seared into your memory.
This is an image from an al Qaeda torture manual captured in Iraq.
They use this and other techniques to torture Iraqi men and women, Shia, Sunni, and Kurd. They also use them when they can capture American and Iraqi soldiers and police.
I'd love to provide you with a link to the Washington Post or New York Times article detailing the atrocities contained, but they haven't been written yet. Nor can these articles be found in the Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, the Chicago Tribune, or the Philadelphia Daily News, and you won't see these images on the network nightly news, either.
While we are locked in wars against al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Iraq and other obscure places you couldn't find on a map, the American press has decided that you, the American citizen, don't need to see these images.
You don't deserve to see these images.
The near orgasmic contentment on the face of the torturer as he burns his victim with an iron is too inflammatory, and the American press wouldn't want you to become inflamed towards our enemy during a time of war, now would they?
I can completely understand where these media organizations are coming from.
They've spent years writing and buying into their own narrative that America is to blame for the problems in Iraq and that the threat of al Qaeda is over-hyped... and did I mention, over-hyped?
If they were to actually show, in stark terms, what al Qaeda truly is and what it is capable of, then the American people might start viewing them as Very. Bad. People. Such a thing could complicate the defeat of Chimperor Bush withdrawal plans. It is better to act like such things doesn't exist, and make sure most people miss it.
At the very least, they deserve a hand for staying "on message."
If these (and other) graphic images hadn't been picked up by The Smoking Gun and the Austrialian Press (Fox News posted, then retracted a story) you probably wouldn't have seen them at all.
Now consider that most people probably still won't see these images on the television news, or see them in print. They won't because the various news organizations in this and other countries either don't consider them newsworthy, or they consider the images too inflammatory.
Then wonder how much else you aren't seeing and hearing.
Our soldiers tell us time and time and time again that the war they are fighting in Iraq is not the war being reported by our media.
Do you believe them now?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Mr. CY, your right these men are animals. thats what they do, they torture their own kind. we cant rest till they are crushed. There spreading their torture like cancer with this manual. a bullets too good for them, first we should pop their arms loose from the sockets then the bullet
Posted by: Karl at May 25, 2007 03:09 PM (e+LpB)
Posted by: NolaGirl at May 25, 2007 04:20 PM (R2uQy)
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Uh, yeah, we GET it. Al Qaeda bad. Wow, what a revelation. Democrats were the ones who wanted to keep the focus ON Al Qaeda, if you recall. We wanted to, y'know, actually finish the job in Afghanistan? Instead we had to sit and watch as Bush the Younger went off on his little side trip in Iraq, creating a power vacuum in Iraq, and providing the ideal sanctuary and terrorist training ground for Al Qaeda. So spare us the sanctimonius lecture on the evils of Al Qaeda when it was your side that has unquestionably been their biggest benefactor.
Posted by: Arbotreeist at May 25, 2007 06:50 PM (N8M1W)
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BDS survives in trees....details at 11. Tree huggers blamed.
Posted by: Specter at May 25, 2007 07:23 PM (ybfXM)
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Absolutely. It's all about the BDS. Hey doc, why is it I have these negative feelings towards the president? Why is that? Could it be because the actions and policies that he and his cohorts have taken are systematically dismantling everything good about this country, taking away our civil liberties, mortgaging our children's futures away with the billions spent on tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy and unnecessary wars? Naw silly, that would be too logical. Chalk it up to Hollywood and the MSM, brainwashing me into disliking a guy who's in all actuality a great, intelligent, visionary leader, perhaps the greatest who has ever walked the earth.
Posted by: Arbotreeist at May 25, 2007 08:16 PM (N8M1W)
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We wanted to, y'know, actually finish the job in Afghanistan?
AQ has effectively been purged from Afghanistan. Even OBL himself has stated Iraq is their front line.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 25, 2007 09:39 PM (VgTsb)
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Finishing the job meant eliminating the Taliban as an effective fighting force. That didn't exactly happen thanks to the switch of focus to Saddam. Now you've got a resurgent Taliban causing major problems in Afghanistan. And wherever the Taliban gains a foothold, Al Qaeda is sure to follow.
Posted by: Arbotreeist at May 25, 2007 10:51 PM (N8M1W)
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Finishing the job meant eliminating the Taliban as an effective fighting force.
Which of course is so very important because of their
international presence and terror operations, right?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 25, 2007 11:32 PM (VgTsb)
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I thought that it was because they harbored the September 11 hijackers. Isn't that why we went into Afghanistan?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 25, 2007 11:35 PM (xF4Ym)
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First: Read up on why washboarding is an effective "enhanced" interrogation tool, psychologically brutal and leaving no marks or lasting impairment.
Then: I will pay any of you $10K to endure 60 minutes of this at my hands. You must last the entire time without protest.
Posted by: Random Guy at May 26, 2007 02:13 AM (K1Emm)
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odd, how the tortured look like the type of devout muslim al-q would seem to attract, fully bearded and all, but the *torturers* look like saddam hussein-type infidel psuedo-muslims al-q is constantly raving about--clean-shaven with simple mustaches and western clothing. those kind of details should not be overlooked. i mean, would *our* US manuals (of any type) show the "enemy" sporting a high-and-tight haircut and fellow US soldiers as bearded? something's not right here....
Posted by: j at May 26, 2007 02:56 AM (4AjM8)
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The problem is there are two wars.
One is being fought in Iraq by American troops. What makes this war different is the other equally important war that is being fought in the press. The only way AQ can win is if America gives up on Iraq.
The problem is in many ways the American press is on the wrong side of this war. Many American news organizations are actively repeating the propaganda of the enemy for various reasons but the result and goal is the same: to have us surrender in Iraq.
I didn't used to think we'd ever find ourselves in a psy-op war with our own free press, but the last four years are full of unequivocal proof: the MSM is carrying the message of our enemy, and wants us to capitulate to their demands. Even worse, there's an entire political party dedicated to seeing that surrender through: the Democrats.
But this week something very important happened. The Democrats held out against the nutroot fringe of the party and decided to give the troops what they should of had three months ago. While the party's presidential candidates are fully into the surrender mode of the Kos Kids, the rank and file of the Democrats firmly rejected this dangerous, traitorous fringe.
It's too late for the Dems to manage the damage at this point, they are politically dead in '08. The nutroots' civil war will split the party for a generation and assure the GOP is running this country well into the 21st century. Americans will not vote for traitors, losers, or self-serving defeatists. But at least history will look back on the fact that most of the Dems said "enough is enough" and funded the war.
The battle for the heart and soul of the Democrats is raging full force right now. But in the end, it's irrelevant. The people will turn to the GOP to lead the country against the Islamists.
Posted by: Lightwave at May 26, 2007 08:20 AM (4xUWs)
Posted by: Bill at May 31, 2007 09:46 AM (V5kbF)
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Paging Quality Control
You've got to love those
diligent AFP photo editors.
If this is what gets through to publication, it make you wonder what slips through the cracks...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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What the
hell happened to that picture? Newsies generally use digital cameras these days. I can't think of any malfunction in a digital camera that would cause an effect like that.
Posted by: wolfwalker at May 25, 2007 02:25 PM (bDuFe)
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looks like printer ran out of ink
Posted by: Rich at May 25, 2007 03:36 PM (EblDJ)
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That's from the digital file being corrupted. Could have happened any time after it left the agency.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 26, 2007 11:11 AM (2I/np)
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May 23, 2007
They All Look Alike to CNN
You would hope that after being in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, that a major news organization such as CNN might be able to tell the difference between U.S. soldiers and their Iraqi counterparts.
You would hope.
The uniform is clearly Iraqi (this is what our Army's uniform looks like), and the weapon is obviously a Soviet-designed variant of the RPD squad automatic weapon (SAW) carried by Iraqi security forces and insurgents alike, but never issued to regular U.S. military forces.
Refusing to identify the nationality of the soldier isn't "wrong," but it is certainly imprecise, and by saying that he "searches for missing comrades," most people would logically infer that he was a U.S. soldier, as it is indeed U.S. soldiers that are missing. He is our ally, but he is clearly not a member of the U.S. Army. CNN is sloppy, but at least they aren't running enemy propaganda as news today.
Meanwhile, AFP has no problem identifying the soldier as Iraqi, but I guess they're simply paying more attention.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Of course, the Iraqis are at least in part wearing old US Army BDUs, and the US Army has not completely traded in BDUs for the new ACUs. Thus, the uniform is not such a giveaway as you imply. The weapon is a different story...
Posted by: Anon at May 23, 2007 12:58 PM (O8pjo)
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You're right that is a old U.S. pattern... it is the six-color "chocolate chip BDU pattern phased out after the First Gulf War in
1991.
The U.S. Army first went into combat with the three-color "coffee stain" DCU in Somalia in 1993, and that desert pattern DCU was standard issue to U.S. Army units for the 2003 invasion. They began to transition over to the ACU in 2005.
This uniform should be a clear giveaway to anyone familiar with American and Iraqi military units, as the BDU was being phased out of the American Army 14 years ago, and was not issued at all to combat units in this war, and
all in-theater Army combat units should have transitioned over the to the ACU by now.
CNN is a nearly a full evolution of uniforms behind.
I guess we should be relieved that they don't think we're still issuing
tri-corner hats.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 23, 2007 01:24 PM (9y6qg)
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I think this is, at worst, an imprecise editor writing an imprecise headline. I could make a case that our Iraqi colleagues are also our comrades, but really, this isn't such a big deal.
And for me it was the helmet.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at May 23, 2007 03:11 PM (kxecL)
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Mr. Film Noire sayeth "this isn't such a big deal"
No it IS a big deal our Boys DO NOT want to be confused with the terrorists!!!!
Posted by: Karl at May 23, 2007 03:19 PM (BKFQg)
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Welcome to the Confused News Network. Not exactly their first mistake, probably not their last. I added an excerpt and link to my 2007.05.23 Iraq/Iran Roundup.
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 23, 2007 07:05 PM (n7SaI)
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The temperate and hot weather battle dress uniforms have not been phased out. Chapter 3 of AR 670-1 (3 February 2005 is the current revision) prescribes its use. I imagine that most of the people wearing it in the middle east are NG or reservists--or Iraqi troops--but it has not gone away.
It certainly didn't go away in 1993--we were issued replacement temparate BDUs when I redeployed from Bosnia in 1996, and it was still being issued in when I retired in 2002.
The weapon may give it away, but I understand that some of our troops have been authorized to use Soviet variant weapons, especially when operating with foriegn troops who use them. This helps logistically, since they can use the same ammunition source.
Besides, this screen shot only says the soldier is looking for "comrades." We are operating alongside Iraqi troops--doesn't this make them our comrades? In that sense, it is quite accurate.
But any little nitpick to slam CNN, right? Since it's CNN, no one wants to assume that the guy on the ground knows more than anyone writing on a blog might know. Looks weird to bloggers, so the liberal media has done it again.
Turns out it's you boneheads who are discussing things you know nothing about.
And before CY can get all self-righteous about the "bonehead" remark and call me uncivil, someone will call me a traitor because I don't have BWS (Bush Worship Syndrome), so I guess it will all come out in the wash.
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at May 23, 2007 07:34 PM (zQxAD)
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Wow must be a slow news day or something because your attack on CNN for this article seems like it is grasping.
Comrade-
A person who shares one's interests or activities; a friend or companion.
Friend-
# A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
# A person whom one knows; an acquaintance.
# A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause; a comrade.
I would say that "A soldier searching for missing *friends* in Iraq" is accurate. What is the big deal with that?
Posted by: JW NC at May 23, 2007 08:30 PM (88FOa)
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No it IS a big deal our Boys DO NOT want to be confused with the terrorists!!!!
You know, you can always tell when someone's skipped his meds when he uses selective ALL CAPS and a pocketful of exclamation points.
Confused with terrorists? Uh, Karl, that soldier in the picture is one of our allies. You can tell because our allies wear a uniform and the mujahadeen and other insurgents do not. That's what makes them so hard to shoot.
A simple concept, really, but I can understand why you'd find it a difficult one to grasp.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at May 23, 2007 08:57 PM (tk0b2)
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David,
The reason why some (not pointing fingers) find this to be a big deal is they think the war is between the US and everyone that is Muslim. Which to me just seems ignorant and narrow-minded.
Posted by: JW NC at May 23, 2007 09:17 PM (88FOa)
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Faery Pants -- We have had war with Iran since 1979. we are at war in Iraq. The Saudis did 911. Pakistan harbers Al Qaida. We are basicly at war with every muslim country and at peace with all NON-muslim countries what do you call it???
Posted by: Karl at May 23, 2007 10:18 PM (BKFQg)
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I call it ignorant and narrow-minded, which is the reason we will not accomplish our goals in Iraq. It is hard to try to encourage peace if we view everyone in the country as the bad guy. I guess you don't want to be peace, ever.
Posted by: JW NC at May 23, 2007 10:48 PM (88FOa)
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 23, 2007 11:03 PM (Af3/m)
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I don't believe this is a serious issue ("A soldier," "comrades," both acccurate enough for a photo title), but certainly pointing out an ongoing PATTERN of inaccuracy merits mentioning.
It's not like we don't hear relentless harping from the left every time a Republican belches or farts.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 24, 2007 12:44 PM (HZBaW)
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So misleadingly labeling a report as inaccurate is one way of "pointing out an ongoing pattern of inaccuracy?"
Only if the "ongoing pattern of inaccuracy" you are pointing out is your own.
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at May 25, 2007 07:46 AM (oJ/ze)
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May 22, 2007
Forcing War: Brian Ross, ABC News Undermine Non-Military Plan Against Iran
And here I thought the media were against
war with Iran.
I'll be very interested to see whether or not the Justice Department will attempt to prosecute anyone in the intelligence community who leaked this information, as they obviously should. I doubt that Brain Ross or the staff of ABC News will be tried for criminal offenses (including treason), though the majority of comments posted on the Blotter's comment thread clearly favor that action... at least those they haven't yet deleted.
Ross and ABC News have purposefully undermined the non-military removal of a government that is a proud state sponsor of terrorism. If Ross and ABC News are successful in derailing covert non-military attempts to replace the Iranian government, then a military option may very well end up being our last remaining option.
If we are forced into a war because ABC News torpedoed our last, best hope at a non-military solution to the problem of Iran's militant, expansionist, Shia Islamist government, then the resulting deaths on both sides will belong in part to ABC News executives and Brian Ross.
Should that eventuality come to pass, the Federal Communications Commission should seriously consider suspending or removing ABC's broadcasting license as a warm up, and move on to more serious legal remedies from there.
Update: As is their pattern, the staff of the Blotter quickly removed my comment to their post that echoed the sentiments expressed in this blog entry.
ABC News gleefully exposes classified national security information, but apparently cannot tolerate some criticism of their own dubious operations. I can only wonder how many other criticizing comments they have deleted.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Brian Ross should be tried as a traitor. HE KNEW what he was doing.
Posted by: Karl at May 23, 2007 12:06 AM (BKFQg)
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"If we are forced into a war because ABC News torpedoed our last, best hope at a non-military solution to the problem of Iran's militant, expansionist, Shia Islamist government, then the resulting deaths on both sides will belong in part to ABC News executives and Brian Ross."
Hyperventilate much, CY?
Posted by: Arbotreeist at May 23, 2007 12:50 AM (N8M1W)
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daveTM, Arbotree is short a couple of chickin mcnuggetts if you know what I mean
Posted by: Karl at May 23, 2007 01:15 AM (BKFQg)
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Karl, I'm with you big guy but you have to keep up with the rest of the squad. It's "chicken" but we know what you mean. Keep your head down and your mouth shut, it would help if you know what I mean.
Posted by: mt at May 23, 2007 01:37 AM (OouOg)
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I'd presumed we'd been doing this sort of stuff right along. If not, then we've been too nice.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 23, 2007 04:48 AM (73HJO)
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'"The kind of dealings that the Iranian Revolution Guards are going to do, in terms of purchasing nuclear and missile components, are likely to be extremely secret, and you're going to have to work very, very hard to find them, and that's exactly the kind of thing the CIA's nonproliferation center and others would be expert at trying to look into," Riedel said.'
And for 10 points, which administration deliberately outed a key covert member of the CIA's nonproliferation department as retaliation against criticism of their SOTU position, undermining decades worth of work as well as hundreds of contacts, front companies and other assets?
Posted by: Gridlock at May 23, 2007 06:32 AM (FKRiP)
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Great. Anti-Americans in Iran have been making hay over Mossadegh for over fifty years. This will keep them going for another fifty. When will we learn that the best way to get democratic reform is to keep our mitts off of it?
Posted by: sj at May 23, 2007 07:41 AM (HoalW)
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I am without words to express my extreme disgust. They CANNOT be allowed to get away with this!!! TREASON!!!
Posted by: jbiccum at May 23, 2007 07:49 AM (NiTuu)
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With all due respect, guys:
When the "MSM" does something that you feel undermines a war effort, they're traitors.
When they do something that you feel pushes forward a war effort, they're traitors.
If they seem to want to end the war in Iraq, they're responsible for the deaths.
If they promote the war in Iran, they're responsible for the deaths.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 23, 2007 08:07 AM (Klsor)
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First you don't want me to buy a pony. Now you want me to send it back. Make up your mind, Marge.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 23, 2007 08:33 AM (Klsor)
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Wonder how long my comment lasts:
I've not watched ABC news in 10 years and this is just another example of why. If you have any proof it is illegal, submit it. Otherwise shut the hell up.
P.S. since you are ignorant of history, Abrams got sent up for withholding information, and the Iran contra issue was about bypassing the Boland amendment, a specific law related to disallowing funding "for the purpose of overthrowing the Government of Nicaragua."
Is there a similar law in relation to Iran? If not, then there is absolutely no corollary here with Iran-Contra.
Posted by: Buddy at May 23, 2007 08:40 AM (aGQVo)
Posted by: Buddy at May 23, 2007 08:46 AM (aGQVo)
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Yeah, and I'm sure whatever harebrained scheme the CIA comes up will work perfectly. Lemme guess, we'll make the Ayatollah's beard fall out, and then slip an exploding burkha onto Ahmedinijad's wife.
Posted by: scarshapedstar at May 23, 2007 08:51 AM (uRp/m)
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Chances are, this information was leaked intentionally by the government, as a part of the program to intimidate iran. Sadly, "leaking" by "anonymous" sources who are actually using their anonymity as a tool to feed officially sanctioned information into the press is a lot more the norm than "brave whistleblowing" these days. The press should not report based on anonymous sources when those sources are not whistleblowers with legitimate worries about what would happen to them if it were known that they were leaking.
Posted by: Chris Green at May 23, 2007 09:23 AM (l8CpG)
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Sounds like a little Phy-Ops to me...
Posted by: Tincan Sailor at May 23, 2007 09:45 AM (L4HGI)
Posted by: David M at May 23, 2007 10:04 AM (6+obf)
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Such plans are ALWAYS at the ready, I'm surprised when one becomes public and people appear shocked by it. We don't "know" if, in fact, such a plan is currently in play (ABC is not a reliable source for such information).
I suspect ABC news, or sources willing to talk to them, wouldn't know the difference between a plan that was solely on paper and one that was actually in effect, or how to report the difference, or would, in fact, be honest that there IS a difference.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 23, 2007 11:51 AM (4OtLH)
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And for 10 points, which administration deliberately outed a key covert member of the CIA's nonproliferation department as retaliation against criticism of their SOTU position, undermining decades worth of work as well as hundreds of contacts, front companies and other assets?
If the preznit does it, that means it isn't treason!
Posted by: moron at May 23, 2007 12:17 PM (gxZAP)
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amusing. torture and illegal wiretapping and opening the mail of americans is good, and freedom of the press is bad. how is life behind the looking glass?
Posted by: jay k. at May 23, 2007 01:07 PM (yu9pS)
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(LOL QUOTE)a key covert member of the CIA's nonproliferation department as retaliation against criticism of their SOTU position, undermining decades worth of work as well as hundreds of contacts, front companies and other assets? (/LOL QUOTE)
It's Valerie Plame! SUPER-SPY EXTRAORDINAIRE! She was *this* close to putting the kaibosh on the whole Khan nuclear proliferation ring, ending Saddam's reign of terror without violence and normalizing relations with the "Death to America" mullocracy. All before putting her twins to bed.
Posted by: no-one at May 23, 2007 01:10 PM (+4D4A)
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I always thought Bush would win. The bottom line is a game of chicken is always, "Who would rather crash than lose?" In the end, when it came down to a question of who was more willing to sacrifice the lives of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians, the Democrats blinked.
Posted by: trrll at May 23, 2007 04:01 PM (6ORla)
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Just for information's sake, but they've (so far) left my scathing comment up.
Posted by: Anthony (Los Angeles) at May 23, 2007 05:24 PM (mT12M)
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When will we learn that the best way to get democratic reform is to keep our mitts off of it?
Yea, that scheme worked out pretty well with Hitler and the Soviet Union didn't it?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 23, 2007 07:36 PM (zrtnQ)
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Yeah, Avenger, lets talk about WWII. Hitler was elected Chancellor by the same government that we helped force on Germany after WWI. Add to that a massive war debt to keep their economy in even worse shape than the rest of Europes and you've got a recipe for another world war.
Another example of is how the CIA overthrew a democratically elected but not sufficiently pro American gonvernment it Iran in the late 50s and installed Shaw Prevadi. The direct result was the revolution that put the Ayatollahs into power.
You wingnuts have gotta quit romantacizing WWII.
Posted by: iaintbacchus at May 24, 2007 05:24 PM (mYHGQ)
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May 21, 2007
Fore!
File
this under "not a PhotoShop, but it should be."
You can clearly see three Lebanese soldiers in combat fatigues (and the helmet of a fourth) as they cover their ears while firing a mortar against the Fatah Islam militant group outside of Tripoli, Lebanon.
But who is the forth guy in the phone, apparently wearing a brown polo shirt, seemingly obvious to the mortar firing at his feet, smiling as he talks on a cell phone? He looks more like an executive on a golf course than a soldier on the battlefield.
This is odd, even for Lebanon...
Note: The inset is my own, and is not in the original.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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To me it looks more like he is simply out of uniform. The brown shirt is his uniform undershirt, and if you look at his foot, it looks like a uniform trouser bloused into a combat boot.
I think that what looks like a collar is something hanging around his neck, or a cloth covering it (protection from the sun or to soak up sweat), or even the bunched-up collar of his undershirt.
Except for the way he is holding his hand I can't think of any reason to think he is talking on a cell phone except that this would explain why he is not covering his other ear (or perhaps he has only one arm--not uncommon among armies that fight a lot, though it begs the question of why in that case he would serve in a "combat" unit).
It may be that this unit communicates with its headquarters using cell phones, or he is actually holding some sort of tactical radio and got caught off guard when the mortar fired--which explains the grimace that indeed looks an awful lot like a smile.
Since I know that troops often operate without uniform shirts, especially when it is hot (and they lack discipline), this seems a simpler explanation than "some guy with a brown golf shirt was talking on a cell phone during a mortar firing operation").
Nonetheless, it doesn't help that the guy looks a lot like George Clooney. Just goes to show how two people looking at the same photo see different things.
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at May 21, 2007 03:28 PM (8/oI9)
Posted by: Paul A'Barge at May 21, 2007 05:06 PM (T3gfS)
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Mayhaps he's the local munitions rep?. He must be deaf in his left ear.
Posted by: markm at May 22, 2007 06:09 AM (hVOTO)
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Now I am not an artillery guy, or even an Army guy (Go Air Force!), but I am not sure why all the other troops are covering their ears. Small mortars don't make that much noise when they fire. We are not talking about big howitzers here! ;-)
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot at May 22, 2007 12:18 PM (jJaYT)
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That might be Mr. Black or Mr. White, or perhaps Mr. Schwartz or Mr. Cohan. Those gentleman are known to travel widely and provide advice in such situations.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins at May 23, 2007 09:19 PM (hASmp)
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I See Vague Dead People: The New Best Way to Lie
Knowing the intense scrutiny that their photographers face following last summer's
Adnan Hajj incident, most news organizations are carefully reviewing photos taken by journalists in the Middle East before publication, to make sure they havne't been modified. They are, however, still failing to question the captions they use to describe photos, which can also be used to deceive news consumers.
The two photos shown below have been published in the past 24 hours, and are a prime example.
AFP ran the following photo and caption yesterday:
Palestinian mourners carry the body of Hatem Hmeid, 15, during his funeral in the Jabalia refugee camp, northern Gaza Strip. Eight people were killed in a new Israeli air raid in Gaza on Sunday just hours after Israel's security cabinet gave the army the go-ahead to ramp up operations against Palestinian militants.(AFP/Mohammed Abed)
Reuters ran this photo and caption today:
Palestinians pray near the bodies of nine Palestinians killed by an Israeli air strike in Gaza May 21, 2007. Israel launched more strikes against Gaza militants on Sunday, killing nine Palestinians in two aerial assaults, including one that struck the home of a prominent Hamas politician, security officials said. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem (GAZA)
View the pictures and the captions that these news organizations provided with them, and you're looking on what may appear in your local, regional, national, or international news outlet of choice.
What you will probably take away from these photos is that once again, those dastardly Israelis are once again slaughtering defenseless Palestinians while targeting militants. Both captions mentioned that Israel was targetting militants, but both avoided mention that the dead pictured were apparently those same militants, and not innocent bystanders. Considering the names of the photographers, I wouldn't be too surprised if that vagueness was by intent.
The pictures, however, tell us a bit more than the captions would indicate.
Look closely at the photos above, and then take a gander at this photo in the Guardian Newsblog.
Hamas supporters on the left, with the green flags, Fateh on the right with yellow flags. Photograph: Laila el-Haddad
If seeing is believing, the dead in the pictures in the AFP and Reuters photos were militants wrapped in the flags of Fatah and Hamas.
Palestinians?
Yes, they most were.
Civilian victims?
I suspect not.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I forget, who is lobing unguided missiles into civilian populations?
Posted by: Mekan at May 21, 2007 01:41 PM (hm8tW)
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I can't help but notice that the markings on the flags(?) or shrouds(?) on the dead in the first two photos, are of different color and type than the very clear Hamas and Fatah flags in the last photo. Green in particular is, I understand, a holy color to the Muslims. It's no suprise to find a body wrapped in it at a funeral.
Posted by: iaintbacchus at May 21, 2007 03:32 PM (mYHGQ)
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Why do you think that the two sides might not wrap innocent bystanders killed in military strikes in the relevant flag? Even if not militants, once killed by Israelis are they not martyrs, and therefore deserving of respect (or at least exploitation as martyrs for their public relations value)?
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at May 21, 2007 03:33 PM (8/oI9)
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Is that first one a Fatah flag? Looks suspiciously like Hezbollah to me.
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at May 22, 2007 06:04 AM (K/lgF)
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They'll Stand Up, But We Won't Report It
MNF-I has issued a press release detailing the repelling of a large-scale terrorist attack by Iraqi Security Forces
this past Wednesday:
Iraqi Security Forces countered several terrorists who targeted bridges, transition jails, police stations and a combat outpost with vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices, sporadic small-arms fire and indirect mortar attacks throughout the evening.
"This was a total team effort on the part of the Iraqi Security Forces and emergency responders," said U.S. Army Col. Stephen Twitty, commander of 4th Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division. "This Iraqi team showed the people of Mosul that they are resolute in their efforts to defeat this very cowardly, desperate enemy while protecting innocent civilians."
The first wave of attacks consisted of three VBIEDs, which targeted the Badush Bridge northwest of Mosul at 5:15 p.m., and was followed by another VBIED attack at the Aski-Mosul Bridge west of the city at 5:45 p.m.
Two more VBIEDs exploded outside a police station and a transition jail during the first wave. The first VBIED was a dump truck, which detonated upon reaching the entrance to the station. The driver of the second VBIED attempted to enter the compound but was killed by Iraqi Security Forces.
As the driver of the second VBIED was killed, terrorists attempted to breach the transition jail to release prisoners by using small-arms fire. However, Iraqi Security Forces quelled the attempt and kept the facility secured.
The second wave of attacks involved another dump truck VBIED parked outside a southeast police station at approximately 7 p.m. As the driver abandoned the vehicle, he was seen by Iraqi Police and was killed as he was fleeing the area. The Iraqi Police immediately cordoned the vicinity before detonation. No casualties resulted.
Small-arms fire erupted during the second wave at seven police stations throughout the city and one combat outpost. In all cases, Iraqi Army and Police repelled the enemy and killed at least 15 terrorists and turned back the remaining opposition.
"The Iraqi Security Forces are in the lead, and they are certainly a capable force," said Twitty. "Their reactions to the attacks [on Wednesday] only serve to prove their ability to destroy and remove terrorists. Their actions demonstrate their commitment to this city and its people. I am extremely proud to serve beside them."
Stars and Stripes indicates that up to 200 insurgents may have been involved in the May 16 attacks.
If these accounts are close to being accurate (and there have not been any conflicting accounts that I am aware of), the Iraqi Security Forces in Mosul performed extremely well, repelling a large scale (company-sized ), multi-wave attack with no outside support from U.S. forces.
CNN covered the story, adding:
Mosul police spokesman Gen. Saied al-Jabouri said intelligence reports suggested the attacks were coordinated by al Qaeda and the Islamic State of Iraq -- which he said were "two sides of the same coin" -- and were an effort to free at least 300 inmates from the al-Faisaliya prison in Mosul.
Al-Jabouri said seven of the 10 vehicle-borne bombs were suicide car bombings and that a key bridge, many buildings, shops and homes were destroyed during a six-hour period starting late Wednesday afternoon.
A U.S. military source said the bombs killed 10 Iraqi police officers, one Iraqi soldier and two civilians. He credited the Iraqi security forces for these "minimal casualties," saying it "could have been much worse if they were not doing their job."
"The ISF dealt with it, showing the people they are trained and ready," the U.S. military official said.
Al-Jabouri said Iraqi troops, backed by the U.S. military, fought with insurgents for two hours across Mosul, killing 15 of them and one Saudi national.
You would hope that the major news organizations would report the successful repulsion of such an attack as the victory it was, and as an example of success that can be won by Iraqi military and police units. al Qaeda and the ISI are the insurgency's "varsity" in Iraq, and when placed head-to-head against Iraq's best, they lost a battle in which they had apparent advantages in surprise and firepower.
This should be regarded as significant news.
But it is very difficult to find many major western news outlets carrying a report of the events in Mosul on that day, quite an odd development considering the size of the attack. This is especially odd when you consider that these same news outlets were able to print dozens of stories about a pair of ABC journalists killed in Mosul on May 18, just two days later.
I understand that the deaths of two journalists in Iraq is very important to those in news-gathering industry, but I don't think I'd be wrong in state that a rare and sophisticated company-sized attack by al Qaeda and the ISI being repelled by Iraqi security forces is a far more important news story than the deaths of two reporters, both for those in the news business, and those new consumers around the world.
The Iraqi security forces thwarted a major assault and an attempt to free 300 prisoners, and suffered minimal casualties in a serious engagement.
That's news.
It's too bad there seems so little interest among professional news organizations in reporting it.
Update: Heh:
Is there any way we can get Al Qaeda on record as supporting carbon dioxide production? Seems like the only way to get the MSM's interest.
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1
I feel reasonably certain that if the AQ/ISI assault had succeeded in freeing the war criminals from that jail the MSM would be hailing, yes, hailing, it as a Dien Bien Phu for the Iraqi government forces.
That fits in better with the MSM's preferred narrative.
Posted by: bubba at May 21, 2007 12:49 PM (r0Bun)
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Full Metal Jacket (1987)
LOCKHART: And, Joker ... where's the weenie?
JOKER: Sir!
LOCKHART: The Kill, JOKER. The kill. I mean, all that fire, the grunts must've hit something.
JOKER: Didn't see 'em.
LOCKHART: Joker, I've told you, we run two basic stories here. Grunts who give half their pay to buy gooks toothbrushes and deodorants—Winning of Hearts and Minds--okay? And combat action that results in a kill--Winning the War. Now you must have seen blood trails ... drag marks?
JOKER: It was raining, sir.
LOCKHART: Well, that's why God passed the law of probability. Now rewrite it and give it a happy ending--say, uh, one kill. Make it a sapper or an officer. Which?
JOKER: Whichever you say.
LOCKHART: Grunts like reading about dead officers.
JOKER: Okay, an officer. How about a general?
A few laughs.
LOCKHART: Joker, maybe you'd like our guys to read the paper and feel bad. I mean, in case you didn't know it, this is not a particularly popular war. Now, it is our job to report the news that these why-are-we-here civilian newsmen ignore.
Posted by: Shochu John at May 21, 2007 01:00 PM (dOcZ9)
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Hey Man, Nice Shot
Cordially,
Uncle J
Posted by: Uncle Jimbo at May 21, 2007 01:06 PM (SZag9)
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A little too much shochu there, John?
Sorry, I mean, what a powerful statement about military reporting from a Hollywood movie. And it was from a fictional Vietnam, too. How apropos.
Naturally, civilian reporters would NEVER have a conversation like the Joker / Lockhart one above, and everything that shows up in a Hollywood movie about the character of the US military in 1968 is certainly true today, right? Don't even need to think to know that, right, shochu?
Posted by: hontou? at May 21, 2007 01:22 PM (ALjam)
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It also would have been nice for the media, in spring 1968, to have reported that the Tet offensive had essentially destroyed the Viet Cong as an effective fighting force and severely attrited the NVA--and that was during the administration of a Democratic president. I'm not holding my breath for the MSM to pull its head out anytime soon for the current occupant of the White House.
Posted by: rockindoug at May 21, 2007 01:57 PM (SLEVh)
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Where'd you go, Shochu? I need clarification. Was that a subtle jab at Kubrick, or toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe?
Posted by: clazy at May 21, 2007 02:10 PM (EWsFM)
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cy
don't knock the lack of msm attention. they might pull uncle walter out of retirement to announce how this was a major defeat for the allies.
Posted by: iconoclast at May 21, 2007 02:41 PM (TzLpv)
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Move along, nothing to see here, move along...
Posted by: mindnumbrobot at May 21, 2007 02:45 PM (d5LvD)
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hontou?[!],
No doubt if I had quoted Homage to Catalonia, your reaction would be several rambling lines of sarcasm pointing out that Iraq and Spain are completely different countries. Forgive me. I will try to use only literal language and simple words going forward. Let me know if this is properly clear:
Official government releases about military conflicts have as their chief purpose not the dissemination of facts, but the furtherance of military objectives. In the instant case, it should come as no surprise that the military is talking up our Iraqi allies, as they have been doing so for the last four years. In that four years, actual performance has consistently underperformed the sunny words. It therefore stands to reason that this is getting little circulation in the “MSM” because (1) it is of questionable credibility and (2) the war is no longer popular enough to relay official puffery as news.
Posted by: Shochu John at May 21, 2007 02:50 PM (dOcZ9)
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So much for your reasoning skills...
Things don't appear in the MSM due to their questionable credibility??
Paging Dan Rather...
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at May 21, 2007 03:21 PM (xuO8w)
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I'm with SJ here: if you believe everything the miltary tells you, you are probably working on at least some false information.
If the only evidence that 200 insurgents were involved is a US DOD press release, we can take them for about the same value as the casualty reports out of Viet Nam back in the day.
So if the MSM is not reporting it the way the military describes it, I have to say that it probably didn't happen the way the military described it. Would not be the first time, for certain.
(And what, by the way, is the motivation for the MSM to report the bad but not the good, beyond "if it bleeds it leads?" I see some circular reasoning here--the media doesn't report the good things happening in Iraq because it is liberal, and it must be liberal since it doesn't report the good things happening in Iraq.)
Anyway, "7-10 vehicle born bombs" does not constitute a "large-scale attack" for this old tanker. And they responded with "the backing of the US military." Let me know when they can operate without our help--oh, I forgot, many of them already do, at least when they are off duty. Only we call them "insurgents." "Fighting ISI by day and USA by night" could be the motto of many Iraqi troops and cops right now.
Still, let's say for the sake of argument that the Iraqis are responding effectively and without assistance to large scale attacks now. This means the mission is complete and we can start withdrawing, right?
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at May 21, 2007 03:48 PM (8/oI9)
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I got it. The benefit of the doubt goes to the enemy. Clear as a bell, SJ.
Posted by: buddy larsen at May 21, 2007 03:50 PM (lCS93)
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No, Shouchus right about the Stars and Stripes. It's always been pretty much a propaganda rag. We used to read it just to see how much of it we actually verify was BS.
Isn't CNN pretty much mainstream?
Posted by: iaintbacchus at May 21, 2007 03:55 PM (mYHGQ)
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In El Jabal during the first gulf war we sat around one night and counted the number of Patriot Missles it took to bring down a Scud. We came up with 16 on average.
The following day we watched the same attack as protrayed on CNN. They only showed the ones that hit.
It ain't just the Stars and Stripes. CNN started out life as a propaganda organ for the US government.
All I know for sure about this war is they lied about why we were going, didn't send enough troops and have been f**king it up by the numbers for over 4 years now. I'll won't know what really happened there until 10 years after the last troop comes home and neither will any of the rest of you. Since I honestly don't give a damn about any Iraqi, and neither, really, does anybody else posting to this site, I hope that's about the middle of next week.
Posted by: iaintbacchus at May 21, 2007 04:07 PM (mYHGQ)
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"CNN started out life as a propaganda organ for the US government."
Wow.
Did you clear that statement through Mr. Jane Fonda, Ted Turner??
Posted by: Uncle Jefe at May 21, 2007 04:16 PM (xuO8w)
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So if the ISI thwarted such a major attack and suffered minimal casualties in a serious engagement, why not bring our troops home? Seems they are able to do what Bush considered necessary for us to claim victory. Or are we still afraid of "them" following us home?
Posted by: JW NC at May 21, 2007 04:53 PM (88FOa)
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7-10 VBIEDs do not "constitute a major attack" for the terrorists ?
Oh, sure, for an insurgency to concentrate that level of resources into one zone of attack would be a
trivial thing. Especially during a security lockdown period.
I don't know that much about tanks, but UW was
my specialty. I wonder Just what
would equate to a major attack for some people ? Apparently, some folks think these guys have armored divisions on call ? We need to forget the Cold War -- this is guerilla warfare (terrorism if you prefer). You don't concentrate that level of force without being serious in your commitments.
Ya' think a line of 40 dump trucks moving down the street might arouse some suspicions ?
And if anyone wants to believe that CNN (often relying on the "let's PhotoShop" AP and the "We hate America" Reuters) is less biased (albeit in the opposite direction) than the S&S, I really have little to say to them.
I have been on the scene twice for major events that were covered by CNN, and in both cases what I say was substantially different from what was reported.
I know, who am I supposed to believe, CNN or my own lyin' eyes ?
Setting aside the "glass is half empty/half full" phenomenon, which I recognize I do suffer from, I remain more skeptical of CNN than anything this side of AP or the NY Times. There is a difference between skepticism and silence.
Consider, if a terr says something
against US interests, CNN reports "so-an-so alleges." But if the US says something
against the terrs, CNN responds with silence. And, as is clear above, too many are very eager to believe the US lies, but that it's enemies don't.
Repeat after me: We are the
good guys. If we blow up kids, it's an accident or an aberration. They are the
bad guys. When they blow up kids, it's often deliberate.
I really can't make it plainer than that.
Posted by: 1charlie2 at May 21, 2007 04:53 PM (pDkg5)
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 21, 2007 05:03 PM (n7SaI)
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"CNN started out life as a propaganda organ for the US government."
Who knew that Peter Arnett was reporting news on behalf of the Iraqi Information ministry because the US government wanted him to.
The strange twisted logic that turns CNN into a US proganda organ while simultaneously praising their coverage of the 'human cost of war' under the barrel of an Iraqi gun is beyond this writers ability to understand. Then again, its lately become the spin of the Left to praise 'Baghdad Bob' for his truthful and accurate information.
Posted by: celebrim at May 21, 2007 05:05 PM (Qnlt+)
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SJ and RSS are simply on the other side, and all their comments should be evaluated on that basis.
Posted by: SDN at May 21, 2007 05:47 PM (TIw0n)
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Let me note for the record that I do not "trust" CNN or really anybody else in terms of actually reporting the facts in a wholly accurate and unbiased way. Basically, determining accuracy in what one reads is a "totality of the circumstances" test. Look at who they cite, who wrote it, what the mood of the country is realtive to the story. This last one accounts for a lot more than people give it credit for. In the run up to the war, the allegedly liberal NY Times, the old grey lady herself, was chering on the war via such luminaries as Judith Miller. They were not alone, virtually every news outlet was giddy with excitement. It was like 1991 all over again. People love a good war that we win quickly. People do not love a war that drags on for years with no end in sight. As the war becomes less popular, the coverage becomes less favorable. Official sources, however, report the same sunny pablum always at all times because it is their mission to keep up our morale, demoralize the other side, and win the hearts/minds to our cause. Bad news has no place in that mission whatsoever.
Now some specific comments:
1charlie2: I disagree with your analysis here as to CNN. I searched CNN's site and news soruces in general and found that when you have "nnn dead", it is not usally bad guys, but a mixed bag of civilians and who knows who else. For example, "Car bomb kills 27 in Baghdad commercial district".
SDN, if the other side is reality, that is certainly the side I am on.
Posted by: Shochu John at May 21, 2007 06:06 PM (dOcZ9)
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Col Nathan Jessup: Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Posted by: Lakeruins at May 21, 2007 07:20 PM (UWm5O)
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For me, the most hideous aspect of this war is the venom, the sneering, the snark that spews from the side that refuses to accept that the Iraq mission is vital and justified.
Our brave, all-volunteer forces are fighting an enemy that makes the Waffen SS and the Imperial Japanese look like Victorian gentlemen, and what do so many Americans do? Belittle our troops' efforts. Defecate all over them. Laugh. Minimize their triumphs and maximize their mistakes.
It's enough to make me wish actual physical harm on certain people. At the very least, may they someday meet face to face with the terrorists they claim are both not a threat and at the same time vastly superior to our troops in fighting abilities.
A humane caveat: At the last moment, right before the blade comes down on their pencil necks, may a squad of marines burst in and rescue them.
But only after these languid cynics crap their pants, grovel, and weep for mercy.
Posted by: Tom W. at May 21, 2007 07:51 PM (wBCOw)
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There are TRAITORS IN OUR MIDST
The war CAN BE ONE and WILL BE dispite them
Our men are tough enough to win the war but the wounds that wont heel are those inflicted by the leftist freaks like SHOCHU JON. WHY DO THEY WANT TO LOSE???
Posted by: Karl at May 21, 2007 09:45 PM (BKFQg)
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Karl,
I agree the war can be WON, but for the sake of argument please tell me how. Please tell what is victory. Please tell me how long it will take. 5 year, 10 years, 15+ years? Is that acceptable to you?
Anyway, the article is about the media not reporting the victories of the ISI. My question is, if they are having victories without our help, why are we still helping them? And why would not helping them be considered a loss? As Bush said, there will be no clear cut victory (i.e. no surrender), so if there is no clear cut victory why is it so obvious there is a clear cut defeat?
Posted by: JW NC at May 21, 2007 11:13 PM (88FOa)
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5 year, 10 years, 15+ years? Is that acceptable to you?
I don't know about you guys but I'm willing to stick with it until we are FINISHED be it 20 or 50 years. Period.
If we turn tail and run, the entire middle east will consider us cowards, and arabs NEVER respect cowards. It's mostly because liberals refuse to accept that this war has NOTHING to do with politics, they hate us because of the trash morality and culture constantly being exported from the U.S. by the liberals. They think the can attack us with impunity because they know that few if any liberals in this country have the courage to do what is right for this country, as opposed to what is popular and right for their next campaign. That's right morons we're fighting to make sure you have a world that allows you to be as immoral as you want, and if the terrorists win and manage ever to take a stake in this country, I guarantee, you liberals will be beheaded by those psychos LONG before us moraly minded conservatives. But don't worry, we're still allowed to own guns *blows raspberry*, so we'll protect you when they come.
Posted by: GWC at May 22, 2007 05:23 AM (kRse/)
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What "other side" am I on, SDN? The one populated by people who spent twenty years as combat soldiers? I don't want to hear your "support the troops" BS. I know a lot of those guys, and I am not the one who is "defecating" on them.
I am not the one who left people in charge of Walter Reed who care more about profit than about our wounded troops because I thought privatizing everything is a good idea.
I am not the one who institutionalized a system of diagnosing wounded soldiers with "personality disorders" so they could refuse them benefits.
I didn't send them to war without proper equipment, and I didn't decide to force a small number of troops to bear the entire burden because I was afraid to pay the political cost of bringing back the draft--or at least increasing the size of the force.
I didn't clamor for a tax cut even as the war against terrorism started because I was more worried about my investments, the stock market, and the economy than I was about winning.
I didn't recommend shopping as a way to win a war because I preferred a polarized electorate and narrowly decided political victories to leading the American people as a team in a fight for our way of life.
I didn't abandon the search for the perpetrator of the WTC attacks so that I could go after a petty dictator--one of many in the world killing his own people--in a misguided attempt to force democracy on people at the point of a gun.
I didn't degrade a war hero's purple heart--and by implication call the US Navy a pack of liars--and reduce it to a political symbol on a band-aid. I didn't accuse a decorated veteran of lying for political purposes even as I supported a candidate for president who could not even be bothered to finish his BS National Guard job because he was too busy working on the political campaign of his father's pal.
I dissented from all of these policies and arguments. The leaders you follow so blindly are the ones who hate--or at least disdain the sacrifice--of our brave men and women in uniform. At least until they need a nice background for a political speech.
If all you got is "SJ and RSS are traitors who hate the troops," then your argument that this war is necessary and that we are winning is a weak one. If cognitive dissonance won't let you face the prospect that the media isn't reporting anything good out of Iraq because nothing good is happening in Iraq, then nothing I can say will get through.
But the best part is that even as you folks accuse dissenters from Decider Bush of treachery and of defecating on the troops, you also fret about the "venom, the sneering, and snark" from those with opposing views.
Thanks, CY. It's been fun.
Posted by: R. Stanton Scott at May 22, 2007 06:06 AM (My13t)
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Well said, Tom W. Methinks you touched a nerve, there.
And, R. Stanton Scott, Thanks for proving Tom W's point with your snarky "dissenters from Decider Bush". It really is all about BDS and two lost presidential elections, isn't it.
Posted by: Dark Jethro at May 22, 2007 07:13 AM (sFb1W)
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"..FINISHED be it 20 or 50 years. Period."
"If we turn tail and run, the entire middle east will consider us cowards, and arabs NEVER respect cowards."
I guess I just do not see how staying forever makes us look strong if we cannot create security. Also I wonder how you think that Americans (who are lighting rods even in the best of circumstances in the Middle East) can militarily convince people to stop fighting each other. I just don't get it.
I quote for you the POTUSA: "Bush believes if we are going to commit American troops we must be sure there is a clear mission and an achievable goal and an exit strategy." Do you think we have the above? A clear mission? An Achievable goal, and an Exit Strategy?
(I would be glad to give you the URL of Bush's quote, but posting it triggers the spam filter..)
What about this quote from Pat Buchanan: “And what are we doing bombing and attacking this
tiny country that has never attacked the United States to rip away from them a province that does not
belong to us? I believe it is an unjust war. I think we have failed in our strategic objectives, and it is now
becoming basically no longer a war for Kosovo but a war to save NATOÂ’s credibility and NATOÂ’s face.
And that does not justify sending in an army of 100,000 American ground troops into the Balkans.”
Humm, seems the "venom, the sneering, the snark that spews from the side that refuses to accept that the Iraq mission is vital and justified." as Tom W. is quoted as saying seems to run on both sides of isle. I would think that genocide would fall into the category of vital and justified, but those opposing the president did not seem to think so.
Posted by: JW NC at May 22, 2007 08:34 AM (88FOa)
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Don't I hear from military experts that defeating insurgencies can be expected to take 10 to 20 years? If that's how long it takes, that is how long it takes. We cannot leave the job unfinished.
And, being of a conservative bent, I don't look to Pat Buchanan as a voice of reason. That being said, the national security interests of intervening in the Balkans under Clinton were a lot less apparent than the national security interests of going into Iraq in 2003. Just this morning, I read a post relating to the real threat that was the Hussein regime in Iraq that I think puts the lie to a lot of the "we shouldn't have done it" arguments: http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2007/05/in_todays_wall.html
Posted by: Miss Ladybug at May 22, 2007 01:33 PM (fUh66)
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Al Queda doesn't have elections, nor do they ask themselves how long it will take. They don't have to worry about public perception because besides not really giving a rip what people think they have our MSM providing cover. If instead of every grievance they can put on the front pages slamming our leaders and soldiers they would devote all that ink to all of the attacks worldwide carried out by these extremist there would scant room to report anything else.
The Islamofascists are not only killing Americans. They are killing Thais, Indians, Buddhists, other Muslims (mostly), Africans and anybody else who dares to challenge them.
Posted by: Lakeruins at May 22, 2007 06:49 PM (UWm5O)
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May I remind everyone that CNN, a generally left-wing source, has also reported this story.
Anyways, it does not surprise me that the Iraqi Security Forces are doing better. May I remind you they are protecting their children too, and as sick and bloodthirsty as the Iraqi public was in 2003, it appears that the sheer magnitude of the human tragedy known as Islamicist intervention has finally sunk in and they may be soon out of their psychosis, as recent events in Anbar with the blessings of tribal big men given to our millitary reflect. Also, the ISF may have seen their own pathetically high casualty rates and taken some lessons. From the description of the operation, it can be conluded that some discipline has been bestowed on the ISF. A few more of these victories, and Bush may not hand a mess to his successor after all.
Posted by: Jeremy Janson at May 22, 2007 08:01 PM (Xd4Q3)
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What constitutes victory?
When there are no more members of Islamic terror gangs to hunt down and kill. Then the war will be over.
Posted by: curious at May 22, 2007 09:46 PM (TbQ2S)
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"I don't know about you guys but I'm willing to stick with it until we are FINISHED be it 20 or 50 years. Period."
We still have troops stationed in Germany and Japan after 60 years. Why should Iraq be any different?
Posted by: geekazoid0 at May 23, 2007 03:08 PM (kNLS0)
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"We still have troops stationed in Germany and Japan after 60 years. Why should Iraq be any different?"
Big difference. Those troops are on a military BASE not patrolling the streets in a hostile country. We are not running elections and providing "security" for the German and Japanies governments.
My question to you is this: Do you think pulling troops out of Afghanistan to put in Iraq should be viewed as a defeat? I mean we pulled troops out of Afghanistan before that job was finished, or did we catch UBL and I wasn't aware of it?
Posted by: JW NC at May 23, 2007 08:16 PM (88FOa)
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"We still have troops stationed in Germany and Japan after 60 years. Why should Iraq be any different?"
Big difference. Those troops are on a military BASE not patrolling the streets in a hostile country. We are not running elections and providing "security" for the German and Japanese's governments.
My question to you is this: Do you think pulling troops out of Afghanistan to put in Iraq should be viewed as a defeat? I mean we pulled troops out of Afghanistan before that job was finished, or did we catch UBL and I wasn't aware of it?
Posted by: JW NC at May 23, 2007 08:16 PM (88FOa)
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May 18, 2007
Vogue: Strike a Pose
Q: Who doesn't wipe away small trickle of blood running from their hairline, down between their eyes, off the end of their nose, and around their mouth?
A: A car-swarming Palestinian, when a Reuters cameraman is nearby.
The photo appears to be a cropped version of this wider image, which shows the carswarm in progress, and the remains of the mangled militant van hit by Israeli aircraft.
Perhaps I'm too jaded to be objective after last year's Pallywood antics, but I'd guess there's a more than decent shot that his wound came from being jostled in the crowd swarming around the sharp, twisted metal of the bombed van, and not from injuries from the blast itself.
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1
too bad if his wound came from an israeli strike. if the arabs in gaza want to condone war with israel, superficial wounds like this are the least that will happen.
Posted by: iconoclast at May 18, 2007 04:21 PM (4tMTz)
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It looks fake. He has no debris on his clothing, so its either a PR stunt, or as you said it came from the car swarm.
Posted by: Justin at May 18, 2007 11:06 PM (NiTuu)
3
Doesn't everyone run to the nearest wreck and climb all over it?
Must be a muslim thing.
Posted by: 1sttofight at May 19, 2007 01:18 AM (51r8a)
4
Is it me or does that look more than a little like Robert Downey?
Posted by: TBinSTL at May 19, 2007 02:50 AM (MSiPb)
5
That pic is phony as a $3 bill.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 19, 2007 08:56 AM (V3P6G)
6
More heart-tugging propaganda from Reuters. Ho hum.
Posted by: Fred Beloit at May 19, 2007 12:39 PM (Z7x7c)
7
I'm sure I'm not the only one that's tired of seeing photos of them with their mouths open.
Posted by: Cindi at May 19, 2007 03:41 PM (asVsU)
8
I'm more than happy to give them something to scream and bleed over.
Much more than happy to do so....
Posted by: WB at May 19, 2007 06:27 PM (Heb/P)
9
Caption: "We need better dentists!!"
Posted by: Specter at May 19, 2007 07:33 PM (ybfXM)
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You know, I've never actually seen blood that color. . .
Posted by: Trish at May 19, 2007 09:38 PM (+8dXE)
11
We've seen photos of Paleostinians joyfully dipping their hands in, and actually licking, the blood of those they have murdered.
Posted by: pst314 at May 20, 2007 02:09 PM (lCxSZ)
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Mr. Owens,
Just wanted to inform you of the latest news showing Syrian involvement with Al Qaeda:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=b873e949-a572-466a-8660-6ab5f889ec77&k=0
"At least 48 dead as Lebanese army battles Al-Qaida in north"
A cabinet minister said the fighting with Fatah al-Islam, which the government says is backed by Syria, seemed timed to try to derail UN moves to set up an international court to try those suspected of carrying out political killings in Lebanon.
Of course, Syria denies any invovement with this group. I guess the timing of the latest clash, was just a mere coincidence....I mean anything is possible, right?
More here: http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/features/article_1306836.php/Fatah_al-Islam_an_emerging_threat_for_Lebanon
Posted by: Dude at May 20, 2007 03:22 PM (adC/a)
13
Last comment continued:
It actually is quite confusing to figure out if "Fatah al-Islam" is connected with Syria or Al Qaeda or both. Remember, this is the Middle East, you know....
Around the time of the diplomat's death in Jordan, al-Absi was jailed in Syria on charges of planning terrorist attacks inside that country, according to Lebanese officials. He was released in the fall and reportedly headed to Lebanon where he set up base in the camp, Nahr el-Bared....
In March, authorities arrested several members who they claim confessed to carrying out the attack and identified the detained group's ringleader as a Syrian, Mustafa Sayour.....
On Sunday, Fatah Islam's spokesman in Nahr el-Bared, Abu Salim, would not say if the group was linked to al-Qaida but claimed its aim was to liberate Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem and protect Sunnis.....
But Lebanon's national police commander Maj. Gen. Ashraf Rifi denied Fatah Islam's alleged al-Qaida links, saying it was a Syrian-bred group.
"Perhaps there are some deluded people among them but they are not al-Qaida. This is imitation al-Qaida, a 'Made in Syria' one," he told The Associated Press Sunday.
I tried to put up the url lik for this article, but my comment wouldn't go through with the URL link. Don't know why
Posted by: Dude at May 20, 2007 03:47 PM (adC/a)
14
Jeffrey Dahmer tease. He should be ashamed of himself.
Posted by: NortonPete at May 20, 2007 06:11 PM (fVuwW)
15
what i wanna know is why a palestinian is wearing a canadian tuxedo
Posted by: paully at May 20, 2007 10:57 PM (0osFo)
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Just remember about 30% of the men in that picture are terrorists. A bullit's too good. They should have their arms popped from the sockets or their eyes gouged first then the bullit.
That one guy squashed a packet of ketchup on his head or maybe he cut hisself with a knife for brownie points. The Arabs cut their heads up in a parade, they cut their childrens head up too. They wear white robes and show the blood. I seen it on LGF. No big deal there kind don't feel pain same as us. These men are heathen.
Posted by: Karl at May 21, 2007 12:00 AM (BKFQg)
17
That's fake. Head wounds bleed like a mother and this guy only has the artistic trickle of blood and none on his clothing. A simple nosebleed can make you look like a stuck pig.
Posted by: Mikey NTH at May 21, 2007 02:56 PM (O9Cc8)
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May 17, 2007
Waiting for Sderot
Did you hear about the high school hit yesterday by a pair of missiles?
Of course you didn't. It was an Israeli school in Sderot that was struck, and the missiles were fired by Hamas.
A quick Google search of news outlets shows that this kind of school violence is apparently not newsworthy by the standards of our gatekeeper media.
To be fair, Google News did not capture all mentions of the story (NOTE: see update below).
The New York Times mentioned the attack in passing in the ninth paragraph of this story, which was focused almost exclusively on Israel's retaliatory air strike against Hamas commanders.
CNN followed a similar pattern, kindly donating a few words about the high school attack in the tenth paragraph of a story focused on Israel's air strike and the Hamas-Fatah not-civil war.
Only CBN covered the attack on the high school with any depth at all:
Palestinian terrorists in Gaza launched at least 11 Kassam rockets at the besieged Israeli city of Sderot Thursday, hitting a high school and a greenhouse in another Israeli community in the western Negev. Scores of rockets have fallen in the area this week, forcing thousands of residents to seek shelter elsewhere.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has promised a "harsh and severe" response to the rocket attacks, which could include the renewal of targeted assassinations of terrorist groups in Gaza or eventually even a military reinvasion of the Gaza Strip.
Two rockets hit the high school in the Shaar HaNegev Regional Council as students met in fortified classrooms to take their matriculation exams in mathematics.
The Kassams damaged an unfortified section of the building and lightly injured two people. Several others suffered shock.
Rueters' Nidal al-Mughrabi completely neglected to mention the attack on the high school, even though his story was side-barred by these pictures of the attack.
Caption: An Israeli firefighter surveys the scene after a rocket, fired by Palestinian militants, landed in a high school classroom in the southern town of Sderot May 17, 2007. REUTERS/Gil Cohen Magen
Caption: Israeli students embrace during a rocket attack at their high school in the southern town of Sderot May 17, 2007. REUTERS/Gil Cohen Magen
Caption: Israeli students hold their hands up to their faces on the scene of a rocket attack at their high school in the southern town of Sderot May 17, 2007. REUTERS/Gil Cohen Magen
The news outlets of the world apparently have little interest in the attack on an Israeli school, but instead bend over backwards to write more than 2,500 3,000 stories about the results of the Israeli air force targeting Hamas leaders who are blamed for ordering the attacks on Sderot.
Update: A reader at Wizbang! noted that the Google search I ran for "Sderot high school missile" was incorrect, as a rocket, not a missile, was used by Hamas. I then ran a Google News search on "Sderot high school rocket," and the search hits jumped dramatically... no, not really.
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1
Actually, the news I heard was that the Israelis bombed hamas in retaliation for a rocket attack.
No mention, of course, that the rocket attack hit a school.
Just those mean Israelis shooting at Hamas.
Posted by: iamnot at May 17, 2007 11:14 AM (onj4J)
2
I am a die-hard liberal, but I hope Israel kicks Palestinian ass. Israel left the Gaza Strip and now it is nothing but an area of war-torn trash. The double standard is with our foriegn policy. If that was an American school, we would topple a country. Israel is the only civilized country in the Mideast, it should protect itself with an excessive amount of force.
By the way we need to get out of Iraq.
Posted by: dallas at May 17, 2007 11:35 AM (ZMnnP)
3
By the way we need to get out of Iraq.
So you want Iraq to be like the Gaza Strip?
Posted by: 1sttofight at May 17, 2007 11:39 AM (51r8a)
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"Buildings being damaged just isn't particularly noteworthy if there is no body count."
Scochu John - Unless your children are attending that school!
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 17, 2007 12:27 PM (p/5A/)
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Umbrage - Wow, you just copied and pasted THE EXACT COMMENT you left at Wizbang. Now that's what I call lazy!
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 17, 2007 12:29 PM (p/5A/)
6
Folks, I'm going to ask you to please re-read the
comments policy, and stop with the profanity and personal insults.
I can delete 'em a lot fast than you can write 'em, and I can ban your IP even faster than that.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 17, 2007 12:36 PM (9y6qg)
7
You know, I wasn't surprised at the unbalanced media response.
What I was surprised at was my own reaction. Several of the news stories thus googled included mentions that the area was a favorite rocket target, and that Sderot high school was "unprotected" or "unfortified". "Oh," I thought to myself, "that explains why... um, it's okay that..." and then realized I was triggered by those words into trying to rationalize the actions of terrorists.
Why should ANYONE have to fortify a high school? I mean it. Why should anyone ANYWNHERE have to fortify a high school? Or an elementary school, for that matter.
An eye for an eye was not, as most people think, the harsh retaliation and draconian punishment dictated by the Bible. It was the absolute maximum. And therein lies the rub. When Israel retaliates, even if the number of dead or wounded is lower or zero, even if no civilians (as opposed to terrorists) are killed, even if no property is damaged except ostensibly paramilitary property, any response at all is called "harsh".
Meanwhile a rocket attack is just another day.
Posted by: BlueNight at May 17, 2007 02:49 PM (imTbG)
8
By the way we need to stay in Iraq.
So you want Nashville to be like the Gaza strip?
Posted by: TMink at May 18, 2007 07:31 AM (PxDOJ)
9
One article I read mentioned rockets hitting the school but no mention whatsoever of where they came from and who fired them. I guess rockets fire themselves...the same way SUVs and guns kill people all on their own.
Posted by: Peg C. at May 18, 2007 07:45 AM (S0aeA)
10
"dallas" wrote:"I am a die-hard liberal, but I hope Israel kicks Palestinian ass."
The "but" in that sentence is quite revealing. It illustrates perfectly the difference between "liberals" and "Liberals". The former would replace the "but" with "therefore".
Posted by: GPChicago at May 18, 2007 08:38 AM (RF6oq)
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And so it goes. Evil Israelis pound poor Palestinians. Just 'cause they don't like them, I guess.
Posted by: M. A. George at May 18, 2007 09:27 AM (kYfdk)
12
For all the woes and weepings by the Gazans, I wonder where the money has come from that paid for the multistory buildings and new cars they have, in addition to the guns, ammo and rockets they lob at Israeli schoolchildren and homes. Perhaps the way to end their wars whether against Israel/is or other Gazan factions, would be to strangle their money supply even more than what the current boycott is doing.
Posted by: American-Israeli at May 18, 2007 02:08 PM (ngPoq)
13
Why didn't you not that the Israelis are only crying because the Reuters cameras are there? I mean, if a guy is not allowed to have blood on his face after a missile blew up a van next to him, you shouldn't be allowed to look sad when a missile hits your school.
Posted by: Andrew at May 18, 2007 07:07 PM (LuJwe)
14
Like we don't know it's "open war" already.
In fact I've completely worked out the "cycle of violence":
1. Palestinians attack Israeli civilians.
2. Israelis attack Palestinian terrorists and any civilians who get in the way.
3. Palestinians complain the Israelis aren't fighting fair.
4. Media sides with Palestinians.
5. Bloggers side with Israelis.
6. Cycle repeats from Step 1.
I side with the Israelis for a number of reasons, but mostly because they seem perfectly willing to stop the war any time the Palestinians decide to stop attacking them. Furthermore I don't at all care how much collateral damage the Israelis inflict in the meantime, as it's clearly the Palestinians throwing down, and if they can't take the heat they should darn well get out of the kitchen.
It's hard for me to take complaints about Israel seriously when they're embedded in the acceptance speech for a Darwin Award. If the Israelis are big ruthless meanies who don't fight fair maybe you should consider blowing up schools in more compassionate countries instead of complaining about how uncivil the Israelis get when you blow up one of theirs.
Posted by: Laika's Last Woof at May 19, 2007 04:04 AM (YyGeM)
15
"..any time the Palestinians decide to stop attacking them."
I am sorry, but Palestinians and Hamas are not the same thing. Just to keep that in mind.
Second, what does this have to do with Iraq? I really wish people would stop using Bush logic and connecting things that are completely unrelated.
As far as the media coverage, but as you all know, death sells, not damage. You all got what you wanted when the media became a corporation which stopped reporting the news and instead figured out ways to shock and entertain us. Oh, and by the way Jews seem to run everything media (and entertainment), you honestly think they are siding with Hamas over Israel?
Posted by: JW NC at May 21, 2007 04:46 PM (88FOa)
Posted by: No Oil for Pacifists at May 21, 2007 05:07 PM (4ZQ8+)
17
My point about Iraq/Palestinian connection was in response to:
"By the way we need to stay in Iraq.
So you want Nashville to be like the Gaza strip?"
and
"By the way we need to stay in Iraq.
So you want Nashville to be like the Gaza strip?"
This article was not about the merits of taking out Saddam, nor our crusade in Iraq. It was about how the media is slanted which is completely unrelated to Iraq, Saddam, or anything else. Stop trying to always break everything down to an US vs THEM argument.
Posted by: JW NC at May 21, 2007 05:15 PM (88FOa)
18
"Stop trying to always break everything down to an US vs THEM argument."
Except when "THEM" is the Jooooos, then it's open season, right? Thanks for proving once again that antisemites are hypocritical nitwits.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at May 22, 2007 01:19 AM (hnl8M)
19
"I am sorry, but Palestinians and Hamas are not the same thing. Just to keep that in mind."
I'm not buying that line anymore. The plausible deniability afforded the Palestinians by Hamas becomes less and less plausible with every new terrorist attack.
If Hamas and the Palestinians aren't the same thing, when they danced in the streets on 9/11 they became close enough for all practical purposes.
Posted by: Laika's Last Woof at May 22, 2007 05:03 PM (YyGeM)
20
And the above statement is why we will never win the GWOT. Your own ignorance will be the downfall of this country, and you seem almost proud of it. You know Japan killed lots of people when they attacked Pearl Harbor, and killed even more when we were at war with them, do you think that every Japanese person you see is evil? What about Germans? Or do you realize there is a difference between those that attacked us and those that are just Japanese?
Posted by: JW NC at May 23, 2007 08:22 PM (88FOa)
21
Of course I harbor no ill feelings toward Germans or Japanese, because they changed long before I was even born. That change, as it happens, was effected by destruction so massive its reality exceeded the threshold of spiritual denial.
The Japanese could physically sustain the war down to the last 12-year-old child, but they could not sustain a belief in the divinity of their God-Emperor under a relentless rain of jellied gasoline.
Your comparison of the Palestinians to WWII-era Japanese could not be more apt. Now, as then, we face an enemy motivated by religious zealotry. Now, as then, we must break them of their barbarism in order for them to transcend it. To do anything less than what is necessary not only imperils us physically but in a sense stunts the growth of our enemies spiritually.
Posted by: Laika's Last Woof at May 24, 2007 01:54 AM (YyGeM)
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When Does the Gaza Conflict Become a Civil War?
This sure
sounds like one to me:
Gaza City was shuttered on Wednesday as gunmen took over rooftops and top-floor apartments. Most everyone else huddled fearfully indoors on the fourth day of factional Palestinian fighting that is drawing in the Israeli military.
At least 19 Palestinians were killed on Wednesday — more than 40 have been killed over the past four days — in fighting between Fatah and Hamas as their unity government fractures and rage rises on both sides.
"We want this to end, because what's happening endangers not just the unity government, but the Palestinian nation and cause," said Saeb Erekat, a Palestinian negotiator and an aide to President Mahmoud Abbas.
Hamas attacked symbols of Fatah power in Gaza, including the home of the chief security commander. He was not there, but six bodyguards were killed.
The Los Angeles Times report is equally dire:
Rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah wage battles in the streets of the Gaza Strip. Three truces have come and gone. In four days, at least 40 people have been killed, including 14 on Wednesday, as an increasingly violent struggle threatens to bring down what had been touted as a Palestinian "unity" government.
When their new political power-sharing coalition was unveiled in March, amid smiles and congratulations, leaders of Fatah and Hamas pledged to put an end to their fighting. But the ferocious violence shredding the Gaza Strip this week has made a mockery of the agreement. Rank-and-file members of the two factions are once again battling for supremacy on the streets, as ordinary residents, worn down by years of economic and social chaos, remain trapped in their homes.
Are Palestinians in a civil war?
Wikipedia defines a "civil war" as:
A civil war is a war in which parties within the same culture, society or nationality fight against each other for the control of political power.
Some civil wars are categorized as revolutions when major societal restructuring is a possible outcome of the conflict. An insurgency, whether successful or not, is likely to be classified as a civil war by some historians if, and only if, organized armies fight conventional battles. Other historians state the criterion for a civil war is that there must be prolonged violence between organized factions or defined regions of a country (conventionally fought or not).
The definition provided by Wikipedia is interesting when applied to the quite different conflicts in Iraq and Gaza.
The conflict in Iraq is routinely referred to as a civil war by politicians and journalists, even though doing so relies on the debated insurgency definition above. Clearly, the Iraqi conflict, while certainly involving an insurgency and intertwined sectarian conflicts, have never seen the widespread use of organized armies fighting conventional battles. Most of the sectarian violence is typically composed of guerillas (Sunni or Shia) attacking primarily civilian targets with mortar fire, IEDs and bombs, along with kidnappings, murders, and ambushes.
Calling the Iraqi sectarian conflict a civil war thus relies upon a debated definition.
The conflict in Gaza, however, seems too far more closely fit the agreed upon definition of a civil war. Fatah and Hamas are well organized, typically wear something of a uniform (if not consistently), fight small scale but typically intense conventional battles, and clearly fight for political power as their primary goal, and usually against recognized targets such as enemy units, commanders, and positions.
Shouldn't the Palestinian "factional fighting" thus easily earn the definition of a "civil war?"
If politicians and the media can used a debated definition to declare that Iraq is in a civil war, then they should certainly consider the near letter-perfect and undisputed definition of a "civil war" to describe the battle between Hamas and Fatah in Gaza.
The Palestinians in Gaza seem to be clearly involved in a bloody civil war. I'm curious as to why politicians and the media won't provide the proper definition for this conflict that it so clearly deserves.
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1
I would call it a Gang Turf War instead of a civil war. A civil war implies that there is some sort of civilized government involved.
Posted by: 1sttofight at May 17, 2007 09:03 AM (51r8a)
2
So, if I am understanding you correctly, Palestinians are violently occupying Palestinian land. Maybe the Palestinians should give that land back to the Palestinians for peace? After all, the Palestinians were there first
Posted by: mekan at May 17, 2007 12:20 PM (hm8tW)
3
Finally, the Israelis are getting some positive results from their initial strategy of providing support for Hamas to provide a counterbalance to the PLO. Sparking a civil war amongst your enemies is really a fine place to be strategically. Of course, the Israelis problem is, as always, that they cannot help but retaliate to provocation. All it does is remind the Palis who they are supposed to be fighting.
Never interrupt your enemy when they are busy tearing themselves apart from the inside.
Posted by: Shochu John at May 17, 2007 12:27 PM (dOcZ9)
4
Nope, thats a civil war alright. Both Fatah and Hamas have political arms that have representatives in whats left of the Palastinian government. So's the situation in Iraq. Happy? I'm not.
All three of the previous posters seem to think this is a good thing. Has it occured to any of you that these are real people who are dying or that it isn't just the young men fighting each other that are getting killed? When did you all decide to exclude Palistinians from the rest of the human race? Oh yeah, 1948 wasn't it? When your grandfathers decided to kill them or drive them out of their homes because "God gave us this land", but forgot to tell the people who were living there?
Posted by: iaintbacchus at May 17, 2007 05:49 PM (mYHGQ)
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 17, 2007 06:33 PM (n7SaI)
6
When did you all decide to exclude Palistinians from the rest of the human race?
When have Palistinians ever been human?
Posted by: 1sttofight at May 17, 2007 09:52 PM (51r8a)
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May 16, 2007
Getting the War Wrong... Again
A chronic problem of news agencies reporting from Iraq is their apparent inability to separate sectarian violence--violence committed by one sect on another, typically Sunni to Shia, or Shia to Sunni--with the terrorist attacks instigated by al Qaeda and aligned groups.
al Qaeda will attack against anyone and everyone else, including their Sunni co-religionists. It is this propensity towards terrorism for terrorism's sake that has spurred both the Anbar and Diyala Awakening movements.
AFP today provides a prime example of the media mislabeling an act of violence, turning a terrorist attack into a sectarian attack, even when their own report indicates they got it wrong:
Insurgent bombers detonated a van bomb in a crowded Iraqi market, police said on Wednesday, as Shiite militiamen clashed with police and the US military hunted for three kidnapped comrades.
The latest apparently sectarian attack ripped through a Shiite enclave northeast of Baghdad late on Tuesday, killing at least 32 civilians and wounding 65 more, according to local security and municipal officials.
Iraqi officials said the bomb had been packed with tanks of chlorine gas, but the US military said a team sent to the scene could not confirm this.
Other news organizations are also reporting on this story, and all are mentioning the still unconfirmed reports that chlorine gas canisters were used in the attack.
Now, if true, who has a M.O. of using chlorine-laced conventional bombs against civilians?
Why, I just don't know.
/sarcasm
If you click through the links, you'll notice that al Qaeda and it's umbrella group, the Islamic State of Iraq, have detonated these weapons against Sunni and Shia civilians, and government forces alike.
While disputed, the claims of chlorine in the explosives would actually point away from a sectarian attack, towards a terrorist attack by al Qaeda or its terrorist allies.
You would hope AFP and other news organizations would pick up on things like that, and yet here they go, arguing against their own reporting, getting it wrong... again.
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Posted by: Bill Faith at May 16, 2007 02:25 PM (n7SaI)
2
Let's be honest. You really don't know whether or not al Qaeda committed the attacks. No terrorist group has claimed responsibility for the attacks. No terrorists linked to al Qaeda have been captured in relation to the attack. All you have is unconfirmed, circumstantial evidence. Also, as you mentioned, the use of chlorine gas canisters hasn't been confirmed, meaning that your link to al Qaeda is in question.
Listen, I'm not disputing the fact that the AFP could be wrong here. They've been wrong many times before. But before you attack the organization, why not get some concrete facts and not just assumptions. If you truly believe in the high standards of journalistic integrity -- confirming sources, not reporting specious claims -- why not hold yourself to the same standards?
Posted by: dmarek at May 16, 2007 04:24 PM (4yYo8)
3
dmarek, you're
utterly missing the point.
There was no claim, and no
solid evidence of specific involvement by any group, so how can AFP flatly claim that this was a sectarian attack?
They can't, especially at the time they went to press, when there were numerous (though unconfirmed) accounts that the attack most closely resembled a pattern of chemical weapons attacked that were the work of al Qaeda's ISI.
I don't have to prove them guilty of fraud, just show that they were guilty of jumping to a conclusion that they can't support with the data they had at the time.
As the use of chlorine in the bomb (a known and well documented al Qaeda tactic) was still in question at the time, I think I did that.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 16, 2007 09:09 PM (HcgFD)
4
CY,
You state flatly in your thrid paragraph that this attack was a terrorist attack. That's a little misleading when, as you mentioned above, there's no solid evidence of specific involvement by any group in the attack. So how can you flatly claim that this was a terrorist attack?
Listen, I don't mean to be picky, but I believe we should hold bloggers up to the same standards we hold our journalists up to. This is especially important because, as your other sources indicate, this journalist could be wrong in this case. (I'd love to see all the sources this journalist used. You very well could be right.)
The real question here is how should journalists refer to attacks like this before it's known whether or not terrorists or insurgents comitted the attack. The Department of Defense does classify al Qaeda as a "radical Sunni Muslim umbrella organization," so there might be an argument for calling this kind of attack sectarian. But I'm not sure; I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Posted by: dmarek at May 17, 2007 05:26 PM (4yYo8)
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May 09, 2007
A Little Competence Would Be Nice
It should probably come as no small wonder that the majority of the American people are against the War in Iraq; getting faulty misleading or inaccurate or even purposefully biased information does that.
Time and again and again, our soldiers and Marines tell us that the war they are fighting in Iraq is not the one being reported in the professional media.
Karin Brulliard's article in today's Washington Post is a prime example, starting with the headline, "Bombs Kill 20 in Sunni Insurgent Stronghold."
It may come as a bit of a shock to both Brulliard and her WaPo editors, but Ramadi has not been an insurgent "stronghold" by any practical definition for months.
Newly commissioned Iraqi police, tribal militias and Sunni and Shia Army units have been consistently rolling back al Qaeda and aligned insurgents in Ramadi since the founding of the Anbar Salvation Council last year.
The bulk of al Qaeda and its supporters have fled Ramadi, have no bases and control no large swathes of territory, and take to the streets openly at the great risk of being shot by either local citizens, Iraqi Police, Iraqi Army soldiers, American Army soldiers, or Marines. Just a tip to the Washington Post: if they don't control the ground, you can't call it a stronghold.
Even beyond the headline, Brulliard and the Post show an ignorance that is hard to ignore:
Iraqi army Lt. Col. Thamir Ahmed blamed the attacks on the Sunni insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq. He said the body of one of the bombers was found by authorities 300 yards from the car he detonated, still strapped in the driver's seat.
Perhaps in a Harry Turtledove alternative history novel al Qaeda could be considered a "Sunni insurgent group" in Iraq, but not in this world.
al Qaeda was, is, and remains an international terrorist group, and is composed mostly of foreign fighters, even in Iraq. The dead suicide bomber, like up to 90% of suicide bombers before him, was likely a foreign-born, non-Iraqi terrorist crossing into Iraq from Syria.
It makes it difficult for consumers of the Washington Post and other news organizations to make informed decisions about the war when the reporters themselves miss crucial distinctions, misreport facts, and mischaracterize the events and actors of the conflict. I could perhaps understand misstating the nature or character of one of the groups acting in this conflict early in the war, but as the conflict has been on-going since 2003, the media has very little excuse for these kinds of inaccuracies.
A little competence would be nice.
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1
I have never once been polled regardless of type. Can we have a show of hands here? Have you been polled? How many times have you been polled? How long ago were you polled?
Posted by: Mekan at May 09, 2007 11:32 AM (hm8tW)
2
We could capture and kill every Al Qaeda member in Iraq and the war would still be rage on. We would still be stuck there trying to suppress the civil war. On top of that, we'd still need to build the democracy, a feat which is unprecedented in such a situation.
A little competence would be nice.
The architects of this war have shown incompetence in spades. Cakewalk, Mission Accomplished, the WMD are NW of Tikrit, yellowcake, last throes, Downing Street, and Shinseki are just a few of myriad examples.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 09, 2007 11:36 AM (GSb30)
Posted by: David M at May 09, 2007 11:42 AM (6+obf)
4
The architects of this war have shown incompetence in spades. Cakewalk, Mission Accomplished, the WMD are NW of Tikrit, yellowcake, last throes, Downing Street, and Shinseki are just a few of myriad examples.
Wow. With so much to choose from that actually was done wrong, you managed to botch most of what you listed.
The actual ground war against Saddam's military
was a "cakewalk," one of the most lopsided military victories in world history. Some experts were expecting 20,000 American combat deaths in taking Baghdad alone. We'll have to be in Iraq another two decades to get close to that number.
The "Mission Accomplished" banner on the ship was for that ship's mission, which was complete. If you actually read Bush's speach delivered that day, he said just the opposite. Once again, we find a liberal talking point based upon an outright lie.
Not sure where you pulled that WMD reference, so I can't easily rebut it. Please provide context, or better yet, a link.
The yellowcake claims have been proven true; Saddam was searching various countries in Africa for it. Once again, another liberal lie.
"Last throws?" Yep, that's a fair cop.
Downing Street, however, was a rumor, based on a rumor, based on a rumor that turned out to contradict itself. It was, when you get right down to it, faulty liberal intelligence, and also untrue.
Shinseki was a general, nothing more, nothing less, and he is no moe capble than generals who came to other conclusions, and arguably less competent than some.
If you
really want to hit where the war went wrong, hit the disbanding of the Iraqi Army, the ouster of the Baathists, the multiple and on-going failures of the State Dept., and a pathetic lack of planning regarding the occupation an rebuilding plans.
Their are much better failure points to discuss than can be found in the conspriacy theoryland called the Democratic Underground.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 09, 2007 12:06 PM (9y6qg)
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 09, 2007 12:09 PM (n7SaI)
6
Cmon CY, you know they dont care what really went wrong. They would just rather spew forth their KOS talking points drivel without actually looking at reality.
Posted by: Justin at May 09, 2007 01:44 PM (NiTuu)
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I understand your point about 'cakewalk', but I find it disingenuous. It's equally true for me to say "It's a cakewalk to pull the pin out of this grenade," but in saying so I neglect the larger question of what to do with the grenade once the pin is pulled.
My interpretation of the Mission Accomplished event leaves no doubt that Bush was saying the mission in Iraq was complete. He expected to be greeted as a liberator, after all, so he had no idea what was forthcoming.
"We know where they [WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
--Donald Rumsfeld, ABC News interview
The yellowcake claims have been proven true; Saddam was searching various countries in Africa for it. Once again, another liberal lie.
Not true! The Niger documents upon which this was based were thoroughly debunked. Bush apologized for the infamous 16 words in his SOTU address, so apparently he disagrees with your conclusion.
There has been no debate about the authenticity of the Downing Street Memo, which stated in part, "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." That's as plain as the nose on your face.
Shinseki was a general, nothing more, nothing less, and he is no moe capble than generals who came to other conclusions, and arguably less competent than some.
He said we'd need what, 250,000 troops for Iraq (I don't recall the figure) and was fired for it. In fact he was correct, so ignoring and firing him is evidence of incompetence.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 09, 2007 03:12 PM (6LXo4)
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There has been no debate about the authenticity of the Downing Street Memo
That's cuz its phony as a $3 bill.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 09, 2007 05:20 PM (pGj0D)
9
Not Dearlove, not M5, not Bush, nobody denied it's authenticity, PA.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 09, 2007 10:50 PM (6LXo4)
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May 07, 2007
IED Explodes, Kills One in... Vegas?
Let hope that what happens here,
stays here:
One man was killed and another person escaped injury Monday in an explosion of a small device left atop a vehicle outside a Las Vegas Strip resort, authorities said.
Police said the blast was not a terrorist act, but an apparent murder of a hotel employee.
"We believe the victim of this event was the intended target," said Officer Bill Cassell, a Las Vegas police spokesman, who called the victim an employee of the Luxor hotel-casino. The person who narrowly escaped injury was also a hotel employee, Cassell said.
I'm admittedly late to this story, and rather thankful I am, otherwise, I might have erroneously reported with other media and bloggers the apparent pre-mature detonation of a backpack bomber. I don't hold any of the bloggers commenting on this case responsible for the erroneous reporting, which seems to be a case of the professional media once again trying to rush out a story before actually having the facts of the incident verified.
This was, if the second round of reports is accurate (and the second round of reporting is generally more accurate than the first, if still often imperfect), most likely a targeted assassination, and not a terrorist with a case of premature detonation.
Using explosives is a rather rare method of carrying out an assassination, precisely due to the threat of unwanted collateral damage.
The KTLA account of the detonation linked by Allah is particularly frightening if accurate, in that it describes the device detonating as the apparent target attempted to move it.
It could be that the device was command-detonated and that the bomber chose that exact moment to detonate the bomb, but the other possibility is that the bomb had a motion-activated trigger. This means that anyone else who may have attempted to move a device so armed (from a hotel security officer to an opportunistic thief, to a "good Sam") could have been killed.
I've sent in an info request to the ATF Arson and Explosives Division seeking clarification of what kind of trigger they have recovered, but considering that the answer would reveal part of an on-going investigation, I don't anticipate any sort of a response.
Update: Averill P. Graham, US DOJ, writes back this morning to state that the correct way of requesting information is a dead-tree FOIA request. Frankly, I'm not that interested.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:03 PM
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I don't hold any of the bloggers commenting on this case responsible for the erroneous reporting, which seems to be a case of the professional media once again trying to rush out a story before actually having the facts of the incident verified.
Is there anything you won't blame on the media?
Posted by: jpe at May 07, 2007 07:20 PM (+rmhC)
2
I've sent in an info request to the ATF Arson and Explosives Division seeking clarification of what kind of trigger they have recovered, but considering that the answer would reveal part of an on-going investigation, I don't anticipate any sort of a response.
At least you tried. That's more than I can say for most of the rest of us.
btw, what's the number for ATF Arson and Explosives Division? I've got a few questions I'd like to run by them, and it's not in my phone book.
thx,
edub
Posted by: edub at May 07, 2007 09:32 PM (SwNFl)
3
You got a better chance of seeing Elvis in a 7-11 than getting anything out of BATF. If that office is anything like the one in Miami, they'll be about as helpful as a screen door in a submarine.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 08, 2007 12:22 AM (0mhB9)
4
Let's see - Las Vegas - Isn't there a more likely perpetrator of this act than Jihadists, even if the hotel is called the "Luxor"?
Posted by: sj at May 08, 2007 09:18 AM (qDGap)
5
Oh, *do* let us know the results of your reporting!
Posted by: Benj at May 08, 2007 01:24 PM (IwiEe)
Posted by: Bill at May 13, 2007 08:23 AM (TQQqc)
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May 03, 2007
Just How Educated Are Our Reporters?
Read
this, and you'll be asking that question as well.
It isn't rocket science.
al Qaeda in Iraq is the lead element in a coalition of Sunni insurgent groups that now calls itself the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI).
al Qaeda in particular and the ISI in general are becoming increasingly unpopular even within the Sunni insurgency because of al Qaeda's tactic of using foreign suicide bombers to indiscriminately target Iraqi civilians, Sunni and Shia, and their vastly different goals:
...the insistence that homegrown insurgent groups bow down to the Islamic State was insulting to the Iraqi fighters defending their homeland. The fact that the Islamic State's end goal -- the establishment of an Islamic caliphate in Iraq -- was not the end goal for Iraqi insurgent groups, despite their rhetoric in support of an Islamic state, was another obvious source of contention.
The Islamic State's insistence that Iraqi groups subordinate themselves to its hierarchy and vision only increased after November, leading to a number of documented clashes between the Islamic State and homegrown insurgent groups. When the Islamic State began targeting Iraqi insurgent leaders with attacks and assassinations, the Iraqi groups responded with vigor.
There are essentially two conflicts going on in Iraq.
One is the sectarian "civil war" we've heard so much about in the press, which is largely occurring along Sunni and Shia sectarian lines. Sunni and Shia death squads target the opposite sect. This is going to take a long time to quell, and will take primarily a political/social/cultural solution.
The other is a fight between government and coalition forces and an increasing number of Sunni tribes against a dwindling number of Islamist terrorists, primarily al Qaeda and it's remaining supporters. The solution to this particular problem is decidedly far more military in nature, and if recent trends continue, the solution may be coming sooner rather than later.
You would hope that someone as smart as Dana Milbank could figure this out, and perhaps it is still not too late.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:50 PM
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Geeez CY,
All you had to say was that it was Dana Milbank and I would've known it was uneducated opinion being published in the form of news.
Posted by: Specter at May 03, 2007 04:35 PM (ybfXM)
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Obviously Millbank rode the short bus.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 03, 2007 07:49 PM (CPya5)
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Milbank isn't dumb, he just thinks we are.
Posted by: mindnumbrobot at May 04, 2007 11:59 AM (d5LvD)
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