January 31, 2007
AP Re-Enters Hurriyah; Is Unable to Find Lost Credibility
I received an email from Linda Wagner of the Associated Press late this afternoon, alerting me that AP has posted a pair of new news reports by Sally Buzbee about Hurriyah, and that Wagner herself has issued forth a new statement. All three are available at the following link:
http://www.ap.org/response/response_112806a.html
As Linda was nice enough to contact me directly, we'll start with her statement first:
01/31/07
AP STATEMENT
From Linda Wagner
Director of Media Relations & Public Affairs
The Associated Press
All news organizations covering the war in Iraq have faced a severe security situation since the conflict began. The risks have risen dramatically in recent months as sectarian conflicts have escalated.
Some have criticized APÂ’s use of anonymous sources and its refusal to identify by name all AP staff members who have contributed to reporting about violent incidents in the Hurriyah district of Baghdad.
AP has already lost four staff members killed in Iraq. Upon the death earlier this month of the most recent AP staff member killed there, AP President and CEO Tom Curley said, "The situation for our journalists in Iraq is unprecedented in AP's 161-year history of covering wars and conflicts. The courage of our Iraqi colleagues and their dedication to the story stand as an example to the world of journalism's enduring value."
Without protecting the identities of many of its sources and staff members from the extraordinary dangers in Iraq, it is impossible to provide news coverage of many events in the violent conflict about which the public has the right to know.
APÂ’s use of anonymous sources and unnamed staff members adheres to its ethics and journalism guidelines, which are among the most thorough and strict in the news media profession.
You can see APÂ’s ethics and journalism guidelines from the home page of www.ap.org -- click on this link at the top right : The AP Statement Of News Values and Principles. (direct URL: http://www.ap.org/newsvalues)
You can learn more about APÂ’s concern for the publicÂ’s right to know about the war in Iraq and many other public issues by visiting another link from its www.ap.org home page: AP and the People's Right to Know. (direct URL: http://www.ap.org/FOI/index.html)
Iraq is indeed a dangerous place, both for it's residents, and for those attempting to cover the war for news organizations. In 2006 alone, 32 journalists died.
It has been a long-standing journalistic tradition to have anonymity to when naming the journalist or the source might place their lives in danger. All of this is understood.
But Wagner's release flatly dodges the elephant in the room, the Iraqi police source hiding behind the pseudonym Jamil Hussein. It is quite clear that using an undeclared* pseudonym is a serious breach of journalistic ethics.
As perhaps a few of you may be aware, Associates Press Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll has officially maintained, for over two months now, that the AP's primary source for it's Hurriyah reporting has been a man she insists is Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein. We know, however, that Jamil Hussein is not his real name, according Iraqi Interior Ministry personnel records, as provided to this blogger and others via CPATT and Multinational Corps-Iraq/Joint Operations Command Public Affairs.
Wagner has been contacted multiple times to explain this discrepancy, and others. To date, she has refused to address the issue of the pseudonym. For that matter, sheÂ’s refused to answer almost all questions about Hurriyah, or problems with APÂ’s stringer-based reporting methodology, so this does fit a pattern.
And now to the news, brought to you by Sally Buzbee, AP's chief of Middle East News.
The leading story, "Mosques still show damage from attacks in Hurriyah" has been covered extensively by Bryan Preston, Michelle Malkin and Curt at Flopping Aces. I have very little to add, except this: it is very interesting that of the four mosques "burned and blew up," this new AP account does not speak of any apparent fire damage at either the al-Muhaimin mosque or al-Qaqaqa mosque.
The relative intactness of the al-Muhaimin mosque is quite important, as AP's reporting claimed that 18 people, including women and children burned to death in an "inferno" during the November 24 attacks.
This picture captures worshipers in al-Muhaimin the very next day.
Soot and corpse free. The claim is apparenty a complete falsehood.
al-Qaqaqa? I'll let AP tell it:
The fourth mosque named in the AP's original report, the al-Qaqaqa mosque, also known as the al-Meshaheda mosque, has a broken window and is closed, guarded by Iraqi army troops outside and adorned with a picture of al-Sadr's father. It also has Mahdi Army graffiti scrawled on its side, partially whitewashed over but still readable.
A broken window and graffiti. By that standard, several apartment buildings I've lived in have been "burned and blew up."
Buzbee's second article, which focuses more fully on the transition of Hurriyah from a mixed neighborhood to one populated almost entirely by Shiites and run by Madhi Army militiamen, is a very well-written article, perhaps the most informative article on life in these neighborhoods after it has been overrun that I've seen thus far.
That said, when the subject of the November 24 attacks came up, the reporting just. gets. weird.
The fighting included a Nov. 24 attack by Mahdi Army militiamen on a number of Sunni mosques. At one, the AP reported -- based on statements of residents, a local Sunni sheik and a police officer -- six men were doused with fuel and burned alive by Shiite militiamen.
Getting vague on the number of mosques... interesting. That broken window must be bothering them.
As for the witnesses, they've suddenly reversed their order of importance. Originally, Jamil Hussein was the primary source, with Sunni elder Imad al-Hashimi playing a supporting role. The accounts from anonymous residents were added in follow-up stories.
Now, the anonymous residents are suddenly more important Why? The "Sunni sheik" Imad al-Hashimi has renounced his statement. Funny how they neglected to mention that. As for the police officer, I doubt many will forget the name of their primary source for dozens of stories leading up to this one. Hiding the name of Jamil Hussein simply seems duplicitous at this point.
And so, a statement and two stories later, the following questions still remain purposefully ignored and unresolved:
Do Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll and International Editor John Daniszewski intend to stand behind the AP-reported claim that 18 people died in an "inferno" at the al-Muhaimin mosque?
Do Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll and International Editor John Daniszewski intend to stand behind the AP-reported claim that 6 men were pulled from the al-Mustafa mosque and immolated?
Whatever happened to the claim by AP that AP Television captured videotaped footage of the al Mustafa mosque after the attack? Why has (to the best of my knowledge) that film never been made public?
Do Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll and International Editor John Daniszewski intend to stand behind the AP-reported claims that the four mosques "burned and blew up"?
Does the AP intend to issue any corrections or retractions based upon new evidence showing that the initial claims were over-exaggerated and inaccurate?
Does the AP feel it was responsible to refer to the Association of Muslim Scholars and an "influential" Sunni group, without revealing the fact that they are a radical Sunni group affiliated with the Sunni insurgency and al Qaeda that reputedly derives their income from kidnapping?
The Associated Press has not used Jamil "Hussein" as a source since the Hurriyah stories became contentious. Why has the Associated Press quit using him as a source?
Did Associated Press reporters in Baghdad ever question why "Hussein" was able to provide accounts far outside of his jurisdiction?
As more time goes by and the Associated Press story continues to founder, it appears more and more that their emphasis has changed from credible journalism to corporate damage control.
*added later. Following the link would have made it clear that an undeclared pseudonym, that is, a pseudonym that the author fails to identify as such, is unethical.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
I assume you've seen this Channel 4 documentary on the danger and difficulty of reporting outside the green zone, but just in case (your spaminator won't allow the "G"-word, so replace the ** in the following url with "oo"):
http://video.g**gle.com/videoplay?docid=-3519855663545752103
It's called "Iraq: The Hidden Story", and it is 49 minutes long. I don't see how you can watch it and not "get it".
Posted by: LGFtard at January 31, 2007 11:21 PM (+RsBs)
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Okay, hold on a second. Al-Muhaimin is a Sunni mosque, yes?
So why does this picture show men and women praying together?
Posted by: Sadly, No! Research Labs at February 01, 2007 01:15 AM (yAao+)
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Please remind me of the meta-message behind this whole "scandal". The liberal MSM is emphasizing the violence going on in Iraq, instead of the many schools being painted and the flowers being thrown before the treads of our M113 Armored Personnel Carriers? Is that the point?
Posted by: Pennypacker at February 01, 2007 01:34 AM (yEbyl)
4
Please remind me of the meta-message behind this whole "scandal".
The "meta-message" is that you shouldn't just make stuff up regardless of how good or bad the situation is. Journalism should aim to be truthful and accurate, not "fake but accurate."
Posted by: mike at February 01, 2007 08:31 AM (GLMrI)
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"...as provided to this blogger and others via CPATT and Multinational Corps-Iraq/Joint Operations Command Public Affairs."
And of course we know that the military never lies.
**cough** Pat Tillman **cough** **cough**
Posted by: The Venerable Ed at February 02, 2007 06:21 AM (D5NBi)
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January 30, 2007
Keeping Enemies Close
When a CBS News reporter Lara Logan uses an al Qaeda propoganda film as part of her story, and refuses to identify it as such, do you begin to wonder just how credible and trustworthy of a journalist she is?
I do.
Update: Comments back open (mu.nu was under huge influx of comment spam last night, so I instituted a manual shutdown). I'd direct new visitors to read the comment policy before posting.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Just keeping it truthy.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 30, 2007 07:31 PM (LITKT)
2
Wrong again,
"I asked CBS News Vice President Paul Friedman about the video.
"I can assure you this was not from Al-Qaeda," said Friedman, who declined to identify the source. "Whenever we can identify the source of information or video, we want to do that," he added. "There are some rare cases when we have to protect the source. In this case, we needed to do so, because itÂ’s literally a matter of life and death."
"The fact that same video shows up in more than one place is something that happens every day," said CBS News spokeswoman Sandra Genelius. "We occasionally use video from an Al-Qaeda Web site and we identify it. In this case, we didn't get it from Al-Qaeda, so we didn't identify it as such."
Posted by: Sonic at January 30, 2007 09:18 PM (r1k0Y)
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Sonic, you just don't learn, do you?
SITE Institute, video posted on
Jan. 11.
She's only a week late. You'd think that you'd have enough sense not to accept what you hear from the home of "fake, but accurate," but alas, that does not appear to be the case.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 09:36 PM (HcgFD)
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What you have there CY is a total denial that this tape was sourced by CBS from AQ.
I don't know how technical you are, but in these modern days video can be, what we scientists call, "copied"
That's right, more that one "copy" can exist. Indeed someone could be the source of the "copy" for both CBS and AQ without being AQ themselves. Which is what Mr Friedman has just told you.
I have a feeling this is going to be the shortest "blogstorm" in history
Posted by: Sonic at January 30, 2007 09:49 PM (r1k0Y)
5
Sonic let me type this very slowly, so that you can understand: This video footage was produced by the media arm of Al-Qaeda’s Islamic State of Iraq, called the Al-Furqan Institute for Media Productions. the name of this al Qaeda film is ‘Some of the Casualties of the Heretics in Haifa Street After Sunday’s Fighting, January 7, 2007, in Baghdad.’
source
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 10:05 PM (HcgFD)
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"This video footage was produced"
You have absolutely no evidence of that, not a scrap. It could have been "produced" by anyone with a mobile phone.
Even your "source" does not claim it was produced by AQ they say "first
released by Al-Qaeda!" a very different thing. They got their copy out first is all that proves.
Don't give up the day job mate.
Posted by: Sonic at January 30, 2007 10:08 PM (r1k0Y)
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You are quite desperate to be relevant, are you? So, in your little world, a cluster of amatuer cellphone videographers were clustered in the exact same location and then dissiminated it to difference outlets? Or perhaps the person with the videophone just happens ot have a lurative jihadi video distribution business.
Try Occam. AO released it through their media arms, because these media arms:
a): are great at charades.
b): shoot, edit, produce and distribute propoganda
c): aren't real good at shooting guns.
I have a feeling we'll have an answer here fairly soon... providing CBS learned something from their last episode faking the news.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 10:22 PM (HcgFD)
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So we have went from "I have the evidence" to Occams famous razor.
You seem not to grasp that the video could have been shot by anyone on Haifa street and then used by AQ as well as CBS.
We have the word of a respected reporter and the head of CBS news against speculation by a bunch of bloggers.
No contest I'm afraid mate, no contest at all.
Posted by: Sonic at January 30, 2007 10:35 PM (r1k0Y)
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We have the word of a respected reporter and the head of CBS news against speculation by a bunch of bloggers.
Folks, remember: we're laughing
with him, not
at him.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 10:52 PM (HcgFD)
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There was a time not too long ago that Jayson Blair was a respected reporter, and Howell Raines was a respected editor at the NYT. There are too many people who still believe that the MSM tells the absolute fact-checked truth, with no regard for political bias...hah! Bloggers serve an essential purpose by outing falsehoods.
Posted by: Tom TB at January 31, 2007 08:45 AM (0Co69)
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The Case for Outing Jamil?
I'm presenting working on what will likely be my last post on the Jamil Hussein/Hurriyah mosque attacks debacle. I've got some emails out to several sources and the AP itself attempting to tie up loose ends, and I won't write a final draft until those addressed have a reasonable amount of time to respond.
I did, however, have one question I addressed to all of those I queried, that I'd like to ask my readers as well:
Should I "out" Jamil, revealing his real, full, and complete name?
I'm generally quite opposed to the concept of outing. Interestingly enough, this is the entennial of outing as practiced by the leftist press. It is typically used typically to attack politicians for their sexual preferences, but occasionally to hurt celebrities as well. According the Wikipedia entry on outing linked above:
Gabriel Rotello, once editor of OutWeek, called outing "equalizing"...
If outing is an acceptable method of equalizing the gay and the straight, can't it also be applied to "equalize" claims made by the honest and dishonest?
A key contention made by "Jamil Hussein" and never retracted by either Hussein or the Associated Press is that Iraqi Army units were aware of the attacks on November 24, and stood by and did nothing.
According to an AP story printed in the Jerusalem Post on the day of the attack, Hussein claimed:
Revenge-seeking Shi'ite militiamen grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive near an Iraqi army post. The soldiers did not intervene, police Capt. Jamil Hussein said.
Further down in the same article:
The Shi'ite-dominated police and Iraqi military in the area stood by, both residents and Hussein said.
Of course, AP never identifies these anonymous residents, nor does it mention that other anonymous area residents disputed these accounts, so with the anonymous residents canceling each other out, we're back to Jamil, once again.
In another, more detailed account, Hussein's statement attacking the Iraqi military are replayed:
Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in Friday's assault by suspected members of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia or subsequent attacks that killed at least 19 other Sunnis, including women and children, in the same neighborhood, the volatile Hurriyah district in northwest Baghdad, said police Capt. Jamil Hussein.
letÂ’s overlook for a moment the fact that not a single soul died, and look at Jamil's claim about the IA "failing to intervene."
Interestingly enough, official accounts from the U.S. Army's Dagger Brigade and the 1/1/6 unit of the Iraqi Army indicate that IA soldiers were on a scheduled patrol in Hurriyah early in the morning, received word of the attacks late in the morning, and were on-scene within the hour and started securing the area. The exchanged fire with the militiamen in the vicinity of Nidaa Allah mosque, and drove them from the neighborhood.
Jamil's story does not match up with what American and Iraqi forces reported.
So...
Do you trust the single policeman hiding behind a pseudonym who lied to his superiors about his involvement with the AP, and who lied about other key elements of this story? Or is it much more likely that the dozens of involved American and Iraqi soldiers, policemen, and fire department personnel are telling the truth?
As someone involved with the story noted this morning, while playing devil's advocate:
Jamil is a proven bad source whose stories do seem designed to help the Sunnis and the insurgents at the expense of the Iraqi Army. That part in the original AP Hurriyah story about the IA doing nothing about the attacks is blatantly wrong and apparently an intentional smear. The unit that responded, which included an IA general, did what it was supposed to do according to the official report--it helped with the fire and it tried to catch the attackers. It is fair game to out sources who lie like that.
So should Jamil be outed, and why or why not? I'm leaning towards not, but would like to hear arguments either way.
Update: Comments back open (mu.nu was under huge influx of comment spam last night, so I instituted a manual shutdown). I'd direct new visitors to read the comment policy before posting.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Say Jamil Whoverheis gets waxed a day or two after he's been outed.
A day or two later they find the person that pulled the trigger and he leads them down a trail that shows he learned Jamil Whoverheis' real name from here.
Would that make you legally liable?
Say they're trying to off Jamil Whoverheis and they pop the wrong person with the same name.
The final question. How certain are you that the name you have is the right person? The names have shifted countless times. Unless you heard it directly from Jamil himself I'd take caution with it. Then even if I'd heard if from him I'd be doubtful.
Any way you go about it there are lots of risks and innocent lives may be at stake.
Posted by: phin at January 30, 2007 01:25 PM (vtIVm)
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There's a potential downside to outing him. What purpose would it serve? About the best result I can imagine, and it's a stretch, would be that the outing itself becomes a subject of controversy, drawing attention once again to the overall issue, but at potentially significant cost to you and by extension to your allies. Is there some other justification you can think of?
Apparently, he's a bad actor. Apparently, his superiors and others already know who he is. I acknowledge that there could be a lot more to the story, however - more than we'll ever know or understand. Anyway, if you've been able to find out his real name, then I suspect it's also already known or available to anyone who has a significantly good or bad use for it.
Again, what purpose would outing him serve?
Posted by: Colin at January 30, 2007 02:01 PM (muz9j)
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I don't agree with any of phin's reasoning above. At all.
But, here's how I come to the conclusion I would reach on the topic.
1)Do I believe that based on information that the AP has provided about their "ubersource" to date, would provide enough clues for that "lurking assassin" who wants to off "Jamil"?
Let's look at it. He was a police captain. How many of those are there? He previously worked in one district, now is assigned to another. Both named. His first name is Jamil. If we use simple logic...we now have to ask ...how many police captains, named Jamil, who previously worked in one district and now work in another...are there? I suspect the answer is....one.
Are we to assume that anyone who was already motivated to attack him, would have great difficulty in pinpointing him? My suspicion is that they already know who he is.
His real name adds nothing to the story, except the finality that the AP has been engaged in a coverup, that they have knowingly lied about who he was, about him using his real name, (and of course, it further brings into question the issues about the way he came by his knowledge, about the underlying stories they printed with his "ubersourcing" and their failure to retract or correct the record on all the false "facts" they have printed while using our "ubersource")
By "outing" his name...it blinds the real issues. It certainly turns up the heat, but sheds very little light on the subject. Any objective observer (please automatically remove every leftist from the remainder of this thought)can see clearly what issues remain, without the use of his real name.
Once the debate devolves into whether or not his real name should have been made public and whether or not he should have been "outed"...the whole spotlight shifts into an arena where the "truthiness" crowd can reframe the entire issue, deflect the light that is shining on them and has them scurrying back under the baseboards.
Why give them that ammunition? Those of us, for whom the truth matters...own the high road here. Let's hold it. The truth matters...and the road getting to it...matters as well.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 30, 2007 02:15 PM (V56h2)
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As long as there's any chance whatsoever that AP simply made up a name that by pure coincidence bore a similarity to a real person, I wouldn't.
According to Haider Ajina (in his 40s, Iraq immigrant ~20 years ago, still has family there, proud US citizen, emails me sometimes but I'm quoting Gateway Pundit here) Iraqi boys named Jamil are almost as common as American boys named Sue. I figure it's 99.9% likely if AP was quoting Jamil Someone you have the right Jamil. But... what if some reporter made the name up thinking it would be like quoting "Mr. Susan Owens" and scored accidentally?
I excerpted and linked. That's Part 46 in my Jamilgate series.
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 30, 2007 02:15 PM (n7SaI)
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I would say not to out him if what he were reporting were factually true, or even if there were a chance that he potentially had good cause the stories to be true. In that sense he really is just providing information and is not "involved".
However, if he reports stories that are patently false, then he is not reporting on events, he is trying to shape the events. He is not an observer, he is a participant, and all participants in this struggle need to be named.
Out his azz!
Posted by: bcismar at January 30, 2007 02:31 PM (dRHLs)
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Changing names to protect the innocent is fine. Changing names to protect the guilty is less fine.
If he gets whacked, that just too bad.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 30, 2007 02:49 PM (LITKT)
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Put me down for a "No" vote. It adds nothing to the story, and precious little to the facts. We already know what his name
isn't, and that's the relevant part.
The other thing that's been notable to me from all the Jamil-sourced stories I've read is the lack of direct quotations. We see the same thing in Hurst's "He Exists!" self-affirmation story--the spokeperson is siad to have "acknowledged" this or that, but is never directly quoted as having said so.
Given the doubt that Jamil actually said what has been attributed to him, and may just have danced around vaguely while being peppered with "Have you quit beating your wife?" style questions meant to frame him into a box that supported the reporter's "preferred narrative," I say give the outing a miss. Jamil "Hussein" may be just as much a victim of AP and their reporters as WE are. We don't
know, so give him the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: Tully at January 30, 2007 03:13 PM (kEQ90)
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...Jamil "Hussein" may be just as much a victim of AP and their reporters as WE are. We don't know, so give him the benefit of the doubt.
I can state categorically that Jamil Hussein is no victim... he is-or was-a quite willing contributor to AP's story.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 03:25 PM (g5Nba)
Posted by: Righteous Bubba at January 30, 2007 04:06 PM (5SwAu)
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How do you out someone who doesn't exist?
Posted by: Sarcastro at January 30, 2007 04:35 PM (Yg0rt)
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No to outing to the public, in the interest of your reputation. If he died after the outing for any reason, you'd be blamed by the crazies. Outing him to journalists/bloggers in the field who want to interview him is another story. I say do that.
Posted by: Kevin at January 30, 2007 04:39 PM (H826O)
Posted by: Kevin at January 30, 2007 04:40 PM (H826O)
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Would you publish Malkin's home address if one of her books was total dissembling garbage?
Food for thought.
Actually, that is less "food for thought" than mental diarrhea, and is not even remotely an analogous comparison.
Those of you who posted Michelle's name were hoping to cause harm to her family, which is reprehensible. By comparison, the Iraqi Army and Police, along with the American forces which are Jamil's only "true threats," are already quite aware of his real name, as they gave it to me through official channels on January 8. If they wants to do something to him, they would have, or could still, regardless of what I might say.
Naming Jamil would do little more than erode AP's credability on this story a bit more, and that is already at a low ebb.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 04:43 PM (g5Nba)
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I can state categorically that Jamil Hussein is no victim... he is-or was-a quite willing contributor to AP's story.
I'll take your word for it, but it doesn't change my answer. Outing him by real name doesn't change any of the essentials. We already know he's not "Jamil Hussein." We already know that AP lied when they called him that, using a psuedonym in violation of their own posted "standards" (sorry, I gotta put the cynicism quote marks there)
several dozen times. We already know that they lied to us when they "stood behind" their story. And so on.
Taking his "guilt" as a given, is it "fair game" to out him? Sure! He's news. He
made himself news, so there's no "expectation of privacy" involved. Yes, it would undercut AP's credibility (if at all possible to do any better than the fine job they've done on themselves) to force them to admit Jamil Hussein is not even remotely named Hussein.
I don't believe that it's at all unethical to out him, I just don't know that I would. If he were outed and subsequently iced, the chatterheads would use that as justification for lying in the first place--even if he were shot by his wife for fooling around.
Posted by: Tully at January 30, 2007 05:29 PM (kEQ90)
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Those of you who posted Michelle's name were hoping to cause harm to her family, which is reprehensible. By comparison, the Iraqi Army and Police, along with the American forces which are Jamil's only "true threats," are already quite aware of his real name, as they gave it to me through official channels on January 8.
In fact, someone did attempt to post Michelle Malkin's address and phone number in our comments. We immediately removed the information and banned the person.
As for the rest of this statement, Baghdad has, as you know, active Shiite death squads. If you choose to broadcast the name of a prominent anti-Shiite media source -- whatever your shoddy, speculative research says about his veracity -- you're responsible for what happens to this man and his family.
Not somebody else, not 'liberals,' not the AP, not that guy over there or Hillary Clinton or 'the left,' but you.
Posted by: Sadly, No! Research Labs at January 30, 2007 05:41 PM (/ZGYc)
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Hmm....let's see. Outing him would most assuredly get you more traffic on this site and, on top of that, it would most assuredly get him killed and his family, too. GO FOR IT!!!
Posted by: FOM at January 30, 2007 06:05 PM (SLFj+)
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He said something that may have undermined support for the war?
So you are going to do your damndest to get him killed (and probably his family killed too)
Nice
Say one of us found out your schedule when you were in Iraq and posted it on a website, would we bear any responsibilty if you got "iced"?
This is not a game mate.
(Although how you can "out" someone who you have been claiming does not exist is a bit of a mystery.)
Posted by: Sonic at January 30, 2007 06:15 PM (r1k0Y)
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If you choose to broadcast the name of a prominent anti-Shiite media source -- whatever your shoddy, speculative research says about his veracity -- you're responsible for what happens to this man and his family.
Not somebody else, not 'liberals,' not the AP, not that guy over there or Hillary Clinton or 'the left,' but you.
Wait a minute... you
don't buy the AP's still official line that Jamil Hussein
is Jamil Hussein?
Why, I thought that the Iraqi Police, Interior Ministry, Iraqi Army, Iraqi Defense Minstry, firefighters, hospitals, morgues, Heath Ministry, CentCom PAO, American CPATT employees, and U.S. Army units were all lying, and that only the AP, Sadly, No! and Jamil Hussein were speaking "truth to power!"
Clearly any name I have is false, isn't it?
For if the name I have in my possession is his real name, then AP was lying then, and is still lying now, about Jamil Hussein being Jamil Hussein.
That then obviously makes any and all claims made by AP in this story completely suspect. Especially those elements that have been conclusively debunked, such as the claims 18 people died in an "inferno" at a mosque that never burned at all, that all four mosques were "destroyed" or "burned and blew up." You know, not just the one you harp on, that was abandoned to begin with.
It's all or nothing.
Either releasing the full name I have means nothing because the Associated Press stories and denials are all accurate and truthful, or the entire episode is exactly as I have described it: overexaggerations mixed with outright falsehoods, unsupported by any evidence on this earthly plane.
Choose your poison wisely.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 06:19 PM (HcgFD)
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Either releasing the full name I have means nothing because the Associated Press stories and denials are all accurate and truthful, or the entire episode is exactly as I have described it: overexaggerations mixed with outright falsehoods, unsupported by any evidence on this earthly plane.
You're missing the obvious. Outing anyone as AP's source is a dangerous thing to do - whether this guy's an angel telling truths or a mass-murdering liar - because Iraq is a screwed-up place.
Outing him has nothing to do with the truth value of AP reporting and everything to do with your pride.
Posted by: Righteous Bubba at January 30, 2007 06:35 PM (5SwAu)
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I realize I need to use smaller words for you guys:
Either releasing the name I have will do nothing, because the AP is right and his name is Jamil Hussein;
-or-
I'm right, and the name in my posession actually does identify the man behind pseudonym, and relasing the name would threaten AP's source... which means categorically that AP is lying.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 06:41 PM (HcgFD)
21
You're not getting the point.
Associating any Iraqi name with any foreign group operating in Iraq is DUMB.
Your either/or has multiple results, not two, and some of them might be fatal.
Posted by: Righteous Bubba at January 30, 2007 06:49 PM (5SwAu)
22
And you'd be wrong there as well, Bubba. This particular Jamil has a name so singular it was in and of itself a topic of note in one discussion I had.
Which brings us back around to this:
Either releasing the name I have will do nothing, because the AP is right and his name is Jamil Hussein;
-or-
I'm right, and the name in my posession actually does identify the man behind pseudonym, and relasing the name would threaten AP's source... which means categorically that AP is lying.
And yes, it really is just that simple.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 07:18 PM (HcgFD)
23
"This particular Jamil has a name so singular it was in and of itself a topic of note in one discussion I had."
Keep dropping those hints mate, we all know what you are about to do.
Posted by: Sonic at January 30, 2007 07:23 PM (r1k0Y)
24
Sir, you're down a rabbit hole. I'm not being sarcastic now; I'm being completely serious and polite.
It's entirely likely that 'Jamil Hussein' is a pseudonym. Take a look now at what you're claiming:
1) There are AP reports using this source that recount violent incidents in Baghdad.
2) These reports are often contradicted by official reports.
3) In many cases, these competing reports can't both be accurate.
5) 'Jamil Hussein' is therefore a terrorist sympathizer knowingly used by AP to spread lies about how Baghdad is supposedly beset by violence.
To begin at the very beginning, I'd look at #2 quite a bit more seriously if I were investigating this story. Example: That mosque that was officially undamaged, which in fact turned out to have been firebombed and raked with gunfire.
To my knowledge, that was the ONLY THING ever physically examined in these 'Jamilgate' investigations. It doesn't look very good, frankly.
Posted by: Sadly, No! Research Labs at January 30, 2007 07:28 PM (/ZGYc)
25
Either releasing the name I have will do nothing, because the AP is right and his name is Jamil Hussein;
-or-
I'm right, and the name in my posession actually does identify the man behind pseudonym, and relasing the name would threaten AP's source... which means categorically that AP is lying.
And yes, it really is just that simple.
And you're sufficiently certain of that to consider risking a man's life.
I haven't been following this story closely enough to have an opinion about what's going on, but the fact remains that, based on what you've posted here, you are willing to consider risking a man's life because you're certain that you're right, and that there is no conceivable third alternative that you haven't thought of yet.
This. Is. Not. A. Game.
Posted by: Keith Thompson at January 30, 2007 07:31 PM (cJhkH)
26
Dear Confederate Yankee,
Please just don't do this. You are aware of of much more than I am regarding this person; however, there seem to be only 2 outcomes: either nothing happens, or something bad happens. If you're hoping for a third possiblity--fame, shaming the AP, or something else...well, please just don't do it. Have a conscience.
Posted by: Jeff at January 30, 2007 07:33 PM (AauQV)
27
This particular Jamil has a name so singular it was in and of itself a topic of note in one discussion I had.
My argument is that releasing names is bad - for reasons which should be obvious - and you tell me it's good because this guy's name is unique?
Really: you have not thought this through, and I can see I'm not going to have any effect. Maybe me posting is winding you up, so I'll stop.
Posted by: Righteous Bubba at January 30, 2007 07:34 PM (5SwAu)
28
Keep dropping those hints mate, we all know what you are about to do.
Nope. Never did, and obviously, still don't.
Take a look now at what you're claiming:
1) There are AP reports using this source that recount violent incidents in Baghdad.
2) These reports are often contradicted by official reports.
3) In many cases, these competing reports can't both be accurate.
5) 'Jamil Hussein' is therefore a terrorist sympathizer knowingly used by AP to spread lies about how Baghdad is supposedly beset by violence.
Wow. Can't count, and can't even get the basic arguments correct. you're quite bad at this. As for the offical report, it provided exactly what Malkin posted
here.
To my knowledge, that was the ONLY THING ever physically examined in these 'Jamilgate' investigations. It doesn't look very good, frankly.
And here we run into our greatest limitation:
your knowledge. Your basic incuriousness. You desire to pursue snark, but never actually take the time to contact those who might have the actual answers.
We've talked to Associated Press staffers, a CPATT team member working with the Iraqi police and Interior Ministries, and MNF-I. Malkin has worked with these people, plus made a trip to the area, and talked to U.S. soldiers on the ground who were there that day, and collected video, still photos from the day after, and eyewitness accounts. See Dubya at Junkyard Blog actually plotted every attack alleged by Hussein on a map, showing he was in no position to have direct knowledge on the supermajority of them.
You? Your knowledge isn't much, and you'e expressed no real desire to have any. To date, you exist only to criticize what you are too lazy, or disinterested enough, to actually go out and research yourself.
It doesn't look very good, frankly.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 08:01 PM (HcgFD)
29
We've talked to Associated Press staffers, a CPATT team member working with the Iraqi police and Interior Ministries, and MNF-I. Malkin has worked with these people, plus made a trip to the area, and talked to U.S. soldiers on the ground who were there that day, and collected video, still photos from the day after, and eyewitness accounts. See Dubya at Junkyard Blog actually plotted every attack alleged by Hussein on a map, showing he was in no position to have direct knowledge on the supermajority of them.
Sir, I said that the only thing physically examined was the mosque. You counter by listing some things that are not physical evidence (e.g. 'talking to a CPATT team member' is not physical evidence), and by mentioning the video and photos that show the 'undamaged' mosque with scorch marks coming out of the windows, bullet holes everywhere, and (in the video) a giant hole blown in the dome.
I'd be wondering, if I were you, what the rest of the 'undamaged' mosques look like. That would be an important point of information as to whether AP is in fact inventing burned mosques, wouldn't you think?
Posted by: Sadly, No! Research Labs at January 30, 2007 10:20 PM (/ZGYc)
30
Sir, I said that the only thing physically examined was the mosque.
Sadly, no. You are wrong. Again.
As has been written about exhaustively, Iraqi Police, Iraqi Army, local firefighters, and U.S. Army units have physically visited the mosques, including the abandoned Nidaa Allah you are so obsessed with. The mosques were initially visited within one hour of the attacks being reported.
As previously stated, your knowledge isn't much, and you'e expressed no real desire to have any. To date, you exist only to criticize what you are too lazy, or disinterested enough, to actually go out and research yourself.
Had you done that basic research, you would have not have made the daft claim you just did.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 30, 2007 10:47 PM (HcgFD)
31
I will make a correction however, and agree with you that I was wrong to use the word "undamaged" to describe the mosques in a previous post.
They were quite obviously damaged, just not "destroyed" or the synonymous "burned and blew up" as the AP reports over-exaggerated, and there are pictures showing conclusively that while two of the mosques sustained some fire damage, one of the "destroyed" mosques—the one where the AP published an unsubstantiated claim by an al Qaeda-affiliated group that an "inferno" killed 18 people, including women and children—that no fire occurred at all. It was an entirely false claim, one of several demonstrably false or over-exaggerated that AP's Director of Media Relations refuses to address, correct, or retract.
I'll make corrections. Too bad the "professionals" seem unwilling to do the same.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 31, 2007 10:19 AM (g5Nba)
32
"So you are going to do your damndest to get him killed (and probably his family killed too)"
Not to point out the obvious, but did the stringer who went by the pseudonym Jamil Hussein think of the damage or reparations that his reports would cause? I mean, he was accusing like it was fact that the Iraqi Army and US forces stood by while militia slaughtered civilians - what danger does that pose to the IA and US forces when people *will* take that propaganda and use it as truth in an already volatile environment?
Jamil and the AP obviously didn't care for the safety of others by irresponsible reporting. If he's in danger of being "outed", then the AP should fly him out of there since they are both the ones who put him in that position.
The truth shall set you free.
Posted by: MidnightSun at January 31, 2007 10:48 AM (6/tHL)
33
One thing that might help you make this difficult decision is to consider how the consequences would impact you if irresponsible bloggers were actually ever held accountable for "outing" people. Say for instance that your decision resulted in the deaths of Hussein and any collateral individuals who might happen to be in the way when he is done in--which it mostly likely will, as you well know. Could you be legally tagged as an accessory to the crime? You most certainly would be morally culpable, but what does that matter? As long as you can sit in the safety of your living room and direct assasinations from long distance, you should be at least physically safe.
What a dilemma for you. Make a meaningless point about a minor issue and possibly contribute to the assasination of someone who doesn't agree with you vs. getting over it and addressing some of the real problems we have in this country. What to do? Given the current legal climate where bloggers and reporters are not held accountable for their heinous acts, I'd say you are perfectly safe in your plan to "out"--at least from human judgement.
Posted by: Michele at January 31, 2007 10:53 AM (ilGgp)
34
The "conversation" that erupts every time yet ANOTHER leftist media outfit gets caught passing off tripe as truth...is the whole reason behind this exercise of whether the character PLAYING Jamil should be identified in the credits of this broad farce brought to you...by the AP.
And the simpleton apologists who just can't seem to get their arms around this basic axiom...the truth matters.
For anyone with two firing synapses, the mere idea that the AP would try to foist upon the reading public a caricature of truth, through a caricature of a source, to tell us grand exaggerations and wholly fabricated whisper campaigns and urban legends...and that we find that unacceptable...is beyond the pale.
NOBODY was doused in kerosene and lit on fire, then watched by coalition forces while they squirmed on the ground in agony, then shot in the head-execution style, then taken to a morgue in a hospital, while these evil-doers rampaged through the civilian neighborhood homes burning them to the ground and killing women and children.
THIS is the story "sourced" by faux-Jam...outside his district...while he notched his 61st "credit" as the "ubersource".
It DIDN'T HAPPEN. He is NOT "Jamil Hussein". The truth matters. I know this is an incredible waste of time on kneejerk (accent on the second syllable) apologists for leftist lying rags, because the point of contention is never about any of the details, nor about the journalistic ethics (an oxymoron, if ever there was one in the leftists Ministry of Media propaganda farm)...the point of contention is at the core.
For them, the truth doesn't matter. Only their "message" matters. And if lies serve them better, then they will embrace any lie. They have no honor, they have no dignity, they have no loyalty, they have no principles...except those that serve "the message". So, reason and dialogue are impossible. (see, ie comments by them above)
By SHOWING that faux-Jam was a caricature...not a real person...it eliminates one element of the silly, inane apologist argument.
But, here's the rub. It won't convince them of the point that the truth matters...because, the truth doesn't matter to them. So, in the final analysis, it won't serve the purpose intended.
It will only serve to get them to reframe the issues, create strawmen, point fingers and cloud over the seminal point. They don't get it, because they don't want to get it. And you can't have an honorable discussion with people who have no honor.
So, here's the premise. FAUX-JAM is and was a composite character used to spread whisper campaigns and urban legends to further enhance the "message" that Iraq was beyond saving. The AP created this "ubersource" by planting stories in their reports using him as the "official" who was speaking with "knowledge". They did this knowingly and willingly and breached every ethical standard in journalism known today. They then covered up the episode with a pack of lies about his "real" existence and name, in order to hide their wilful breaches.
The apologists have not a single comeback for this that is either sensible, rational or real. They don't care...their handlers lie...and they will lie to provide social cover for the lying message developers. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid kids...over here...the truth matters.
Don't out him, CY...it won't do what needs to be done and will only give them fodder for producing more tripe for truth.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 31, 2007 11:11 AM (5RM9g)
35
As if YOU would know who he "really" is. Wait...I thought he didn't even exist. Now, somehow, YOU know his "true identity"? How? Are you a journalist? Someone to be trusted with confidential information? Someone who somehow knows something no one else does? Uh-huh. That's what I thought.
What on earth do you think you're doing?
Posted by: concerned citizen at January 31, 2007 11:34 AM (vpBE3)
36
CY (and everyone), an analogy:
The AP is a tire store, Jamil is a jealous man who is having an affair with your best friends wife, Iraq. The tire store convinces the adulterous man to slash the very expensive tires on your best friends car (the mosques, etc.). The tire store doesn't know any of the people involved, and only cares about maximizing it's profits. The jealous adulteror doesn't care about tire profits, he just hates the husband and wants to do anything he can to bring him down. If you find out who personally slashed the tires, and the involvement of the tire store, and tell your best friend the cheated upon spouse who then beats the crap out of the boyfriend and sues the tire store, is that your fault? Both the AP and "Jamil" imho acted with malice aforethought, especially in the case of "Jamil", and inserted themselves into the conflict as direct actors. As such, I think it is in the public's interest to know WHO is doing WHAT regarding this issue. If "Jamil" would truly be placed in jeopardy by the public revealing of his name, then he can request political asylum here in the U.S. and go on the talk-show circuit. I say out his butt!
Posted by: Bryce at January 31, 2007 11:37 AM (Uop4Y)
37
Well, that's illustrative of
something.
Posted by: tb at January 31, 2007 11:44 AM (G/dJe)
38
The person using the Jamil Hussein pseudonym is clearly an enemy propagandist supported by a gullible AP. The idea you would be "outing" him is nonsense; you would simply be identifying one of the enemy - because he
is our enemy, AP's attempts to gloss over their own egregious complicity in treason with this lame "protect our source" veneer notwithstanding. Back when this nation still had backbone and a clear moral perspective, it was called "aiding and abetting the enemy", and would be a hanging offense. I'd shed no tears for the enemy dead, CY, whether pseudonymed Jamil or otherwise.
And a nation serious about it's security in a time of war would be taking a good hard look at the AP editors who signed off on publishing this enemy propaganda, as well as the NYT's breaches of national security.
Posted by: Joe at January 31, 2007 12:06 PM (RA2KU)
39
what is so hard to understand about this? even if you are right and "Jamil Hussein" is not his real name, and even if for some reason using a pseudonym in a deathzone means he is lying about everything, does that mean he deserves to die? even if his stories were lies, his stories were anti-shiite. he lives in a region populated with shiite death squads. you do the math buddy.
Posted by: Exalted at January 31, 2007 01:40 PM (vnFkH)
40
This individual needs to be exposed. That does not mean that he or his family deserve any physical attacks on them. Give them a chance to avoid this by announceing that you will "out" him at a specific time far enough away that he can seek protection from whoever sponsers him and then expose him at the announced time. Give him a couple of days.
I wouldn't worry about Bubba or Sadly. If "Jamil" died of an existing condition, they'd blame you anyway. "Jamil" and AP need to held to the same standards as any source, no protection if the information is false.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at January 31, 2007 03:06 PM (I/x6l)
41
Would your purpose in revealing his real name be to destroy his utility as a conduit of anti-US, poorly sourced stories to AP? If so, would revealing his identity accomplish this? Would it accomplish it only if he were killed as a result?
If that isn't your purpose, I don't see what it might be short of vindication in the anti-AP argument (in which I side with you). Don't let THAT determine your actions. That would be stooping to the level of MSM releases of classified data because they have a one-sided feud going with W. (That's meant as an analogy, not a close parallel.)
If the first case is so, and you're reasonably certain no real threat to life and limb exists to the man involved... I think I would expose him were I in your shoes. Revealing someone in this situation, someone who SOUGHT the limelight, albeit through alias (else why use a byline tied to his "identity?"), does not make you complicit in any act that follows unless you have reason to believe that WOULD follow. We are not responsible for the actions of others unless we are in a command position with regard to those others.
If you suspect a real threat to him would exist, you would accrue some culpability (at least moral) in that you knowingly allowed a situation to come about (that you might have prevented) in which he could be harmed. Call it negligence in the best case.
Posted by: Dan S at February 01, 2007 12:19 AM (yObEk)
42
I advise that you not post the real name of the person cited by AP as "Jamil Hussein" unless this person gives you permission to do so or you have good reason to believe that their life or the lives of their family would not be endangered. I think it is fair to ask people what they think you should do, and why. I also think that is fair to infer, from AP's lack of response, that they have conceded the point that their source was given a psuedonym and that this was a violation of good journalistic practices -- i.e., they should have called him an unnamed source, given what information they could about him and mentioned any potential sources of bias that this source might have had, at a bare minimum. They also most likely erred in relying on him as the sole source for numerous facts they reported and should have done additional fact-finding before publishing these stories.
Posted by: Mark Wilson at February 01, 2007 02:40 AM (TfqfG)
43
Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may.
BTW, AP is not supposed to use pseudonyms.
Posted by: TCO at February 01, 2007 09:33 AM (uHrik)
44
Here's a question for y'all.
(First let me state, I haven't followed Jamilgate near one iota since it's began.)
Who, outside of the blogosphere, even remembers a thing about Jamil Hussein, let alone, cares? So what is outing him going to truly accomplish in the long run?
Posted by: Devil's Deputy Advocate at February 01, 2007 06:51 PM (guvxV)
45
If you really beleieve that this "Jamil Hussein" person, whoever he is or isn't, is an enemy of the US, and you have some relevant information about him, then report it confidentially to the authorities (the DoD or whatever). In fact, why the hell haven't you already done so? What possible purpose would be served by revealing this information to the public, and therefore to those who might want to kill him?
Posted by: Keith Thompson at February 01, 2007 09:27 PM (wY/Cp)
46
Personaly, I'd argue FOR outing the real Jamil Husein.
After all, we are being told that we should accept him as a credible source -- but the AP is going out of its way to hide his identity to keep us from judging for ourselves.
Frankly, I' tired of being told by the media that we should trust them -- especially when they insist that we are obliged to question the government and doubt everything it says. I believe teh MSM deserves the same treatment.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at February 01, 2007 11:04 PM (rwVGN)
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January 29, 2007
Walkback?
In the wake of my
January 25 26 letter to the Board of Directors of the Associated Press concerning the news organization's inaccurate reporting of the November 24 Hurriyah assault by Shia militias on Sunni mosques--a letter in which I provided to the Board of Directors the real name of AP source "Jamil Hussein"--the official Associated Press web site containing all of AP's official responses regarding Hurriyah has
curiously withdrawn the January 4 article by AP reporter Steven R. Hurst claiming that Jamil Hussein is Jamil Hussein.
A screen capture of the AP web page from January 8 containing the Hurst article is captured here.
A screen capture of the AP Web page, minus the Hurst article, as captured this morning, is online here.
Is the Associated Press beginning a walkback of it's Hurriyah coverage? If so, quietly attempting to scrub their reporting to date is perhaps not the best way to do so.
Perhaps they should start with a formal retraction acknowledging their comedy of errors.
As I have stated from the very beginning of this debacle, what we are witnessing in action via the Hurriyah scandal and the 39 of 40 AP stories attributed to Jamil Hussein that cannot be corroborated by a rudimentary search of other English-language news organizations of the same events, what we are witnessing is a flawed methodology for gathering the news that places far too much credibility in the words of questionable sources and local stringers with dubious allegiances, and no readily apparent internal mechanism for fact-checking the reports provided.
The advice I issued on December 18 is looking better all the time.
Update: Curt at Flopping Aces notes (via email) that while the AP has scrubbed the one file linked above where AP has been consolidating their Hurriyah reporting, they still have the Hurst claim posted here. Don't worry... if they attempt to scrub that, I have a screen capture of that page, as well.
Update: By the way... notice anything funny about the image used by AP in their "Freedom of Information" section? It appears to be a photo of terrorist detainees at Guantanemo Bay.
Does the Associated Press consider capturing terrorists a violation of AP's freedom of information?
It certainly does not apply to Jamil Gulaim XXXXX XX-XXXXXXX, who is presently back at work as an Iraqi police officer.
Update: Confirmed. The picture was of detainees arriving at Camp X-Ray in 2002.
Update: Linda Wagner, Associated Press Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs, states that the disappearance of the Hurst article is "purely a technical issue." It has since been restored to the AP web site.
Does anybody here with an IT background want to explain precisely how AP's "technical issue" would delete just the one post on the page, and not all of the posts on that page? I assume it could be a technical glitch, but my experience tells me that human involvement is a far more likely culprit.
Update, for the kids over at Sadly No!: who apparently can't figure out how to click a link. A whole indignant post, dedicated to something that did not happen... how sad. No?
As for CMS systems, they are typically set to default to a set expiration after "X" days. This was not in evidence here, nor was this what AP's Linda Wagner alleged happened.
While you are at it, why won't you discuss the other mosques (not that you've finally learned to spell Nidaa Allah correctly), particularly how it is impossible for AP's al Qaeda-linked source of the Association of Muslim Scholars to be correct that one mosque was gutted in an "inferno" that left 18 dead, only to have the same mosque open for regular services the next day, and soot free at that?
Why, that might require independent thought and actually looking at facts instead of reflexively attacking any evidence brought forth by a conservative, and we can't have that, can we?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Posted by: Bill Faith at January 29, 2007 01:08 PM (n7SaI)
2
Here at Ohio University (using a P.O.S. called CommonSpot) I can set an exparation date for any section of text on the site. Perhaps whatever software they are using allows that same kind of control.
I do agree that it seems odd though that someone would have bothered to expire one post.
I wonder if this "technical" issue would have been caught if you guys weren't on top of them. My bet is that they were indeed trying to re-write the past and got caught, but that's just me..
Chuck
Posted by: Chuck Bennett at January 29, 2007 02:56 PM (DClOL)
3
The same response was received from Wagner in the comment section at
Rathergate.com. AP as originating IP confirmed.
Posted by: Tully at January 29, 2007 03:07 PM (kEQ90)
4
Apparently the AP will respond to a blog post or two, so long as the AP can avoid answering the questions the very same bloggers have been asking for a month or so...
Posted by: Karl at January 29, 2007 05:03 PM (FNd9l)
5
Does anybody here with an IT background...
Software rots just like wood. Really! I don't think even the dumbest non-technical managers I've ever seen would buy a story like that...
...well maybe one or two, but they probably got jobs at AP.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 29, 2007 09:59 PM (LITKT)
6
Michelle Malkin: Fact-checking the AP and Jamil Hussein
One of the mosques identified by the AP, the Nidaa Alah mosque, ... Small arms fire damage at the Nidaa Alah mosque, which had been abandoned at the time of ...
michellemalkin.com/archives/006728.htm - 43k - Cached - Similar pages
Posted by: Nidaa Alah Allah at January 30, 2007 08:59 AM (aOeXm)
7
Psst... concering your "truthiness" story
You wrote: "First, "Allah" is not spelled "Alah," you morons."
Really?
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/01/27/andrew-sullivan-smears-us-troops/
Hot air uses "Alah"
But of course it's sadly no, a comedy blog, that needs to "get it right"
Posted by: cokane at January 30, 2007 12:34 PM (bcKMK)
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January 22, 2007
Fox Pulls an AP
And Captain Ed
has the details:
The curse of single sourcing has bitten more than just the AP lately. Insight Magazine, a publication of the Washington Times, ran a single-sourced story last Friday about Barack Obama regarding the choice of school his stepfather made while they lived in Indonesia, and Fox News spent all day talking about it. In this case, Fox used the news item to hit at both Obama and Hillary Clinton without ever confirming anything about the sourcing. Howard Kurtz, in his indispensable media-watch column, explains:
Insight, a magazine owned by the Washington Times, cited unnamed sources in saying that young Barack attended a madrassah, or Muslim religious school, in Indonesia. In his 1995 autobiography, Obama said his Indonesian stepfather had sent him to a "predominantly Muslim school" in Jakarta, after two years in a Catholic school -- but Insight goes further in saying it was a madrassah and that Obama was raised as a Muslim.
Fox News picked up the Insight charge on two of its programs, playing up an angle involving Hillary Clinton. The magazine, citing only unnamed sources, said that researchers "connected" to the New York senator were allegedly spreading the information about her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination. ...
On the morning show "Fox & Friends" on Friday, co-host Steve Doocy said that madrassahs are financed by Saudis and teach a radical version of Islam known as Wahhabism, though he said there was a question whether that was the curriculum in the late 1960s, when Obama attended the school. Another co-host, Gretchen Carlson, said that those on the show weren't referring to all Muslims, only "the kind that want to blow us up." ...
On Friday afternoon, John Gibson, host of Fox's "The Big Story," began a segment this way: "Hillary Clinton reported to be already digging up the dirt on Barack Obama. The New York senator has reportedly outed Obama's madrassah past. That's right, the Clinton team reported to have pulled out all the stops to reveal something Obama would rather you didn't know -- that he was educated in a Muslim madrassah."
Kurtz reminds readers that reputable news agencies used to refuse to run stories from anonymous sources unless they could get independent confirmation. Those days are apparently over. Instead, we have the dynamic of one news agency running a story, and then other news agencies report on the reporting of that story, until everyone forgets that the basis of the entire issue came from one source, and one who refused to go on the record at that.
I'm admittedly very late to the table on this one, but both Insight and Fox were well out of bounds in heaping such uncorroborated scorn upon Barack Obama. Politics is a hard-nosed business, but no child can control what school he goes to, and to imply that Obama is some sort of Islamist Manchurian candidate—the angle Fox seemed to be trying to promote across several shows—goes beyond the pale.
Fox and Insight should either produce named sources to back their allegations—I find that doubtful—or they should retract their commentary during these same time slots by these same hosts and publicly apologize to both Barack Obama for making the slur, and to Hillary Clinton for stating her campaign was behind it.
I disagree with the politics of both individuals, but there are certainly valid issues upon which someone can criticize either of these candidates without having to stoop to such scurrilous single-sourced accounts.
Update: Insight strikes back. Ouch. Getting catty...
Update: Allah has CNN's debunking.
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1
The Fox slam does sound unsubstantiated.
So far, all I see here is a late night one-liner, nothing of substance.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 22, 2007 05:40 PM (HoI9m)
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Hurriyah: Where We Go From Here
As you well know by now, thanks to a n investigation launched by Curt of
Flopping Aces and followed up on by Michelle Malkin and Bryan Preston's visit to the Hurriyah neighborhood of Baghdad as reported in the
NY Post, Michelle's
personal blog, and now via video at
Hot Air, the Associated Press' reporting of massacres on November 24 were grossly exaggerated, and parts were apparently fabricated by a longtime Associated Press source they still call Jamil Hussein, even though
we know otherwise.
The Associated Press released several very graphic versions of what they claimed occurred in Hurriyah on November 24, 2006. I'll now reproduce the relevant portions of two of those Associated Press accounts, so that you will know exactly what they claimed.
On November 24, the day of the attack, the Associated Press ran this version of the story, as captured in the Jerusalem Post:
Revenge-seeking Shi'ite militiamen grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive near an Iraqi army post. The soldiers did not intervene, police Capt. Jamil Hussein said.
The savage revenge attack for Thursday's slaughter of 215 people in the Shi'ite Sadr City slum occurred as members of the Mahdi Army militia burned four mosques and several homes while killing 12 other Sunni residents in the once-mixed Hurriyah neighborhood, Hussein said.
[snip]
Gunmen loyal to radical anti-American Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr began taking over the neighborhood this summer and a majority of its Sunni residents already had fled.
The militiamen attacked and burned the Ahbab al-Mustafa, Nidaa Allah, al-Muhaimin and al-Qaqaqa mosques in the rampage that did not end until American forces arrived, Hussein said.
The gunmen attack with rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and automatic rifles. Residents said militiamen prevented them from entering burned structures to take away the bodies of victims.
The Shi'ite-dominated police and Iraqi military in the area stood by, both residents and Hussein said.
Later Friday, militiamen raided al-Samarraie Sunni mosque in the el-Amel district and killed two guards, police 1st. Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razaq said. Two other Sunni mosques in west Baghdad also were attacked, police said.
A day later, on November 25, the Associated Press ran this version of the story, as captured for posterity on Gainesville.com:
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Revenge-seeking militiamen seized six Sunnis as they left Friday prayers and burned them alive with kerosene in a savage new twist to the brutality shaking the Iraqi capital a day after suspected Sunni insurgents killed 215 people in Baghdad's main Shiite district.
Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in Friday's assault by suspected members of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia or subsequent attacks that killed at least 19 other Sunnis, including women and children, in the same neighborhood, the volatile Hurriyah district in northwest Baghdad, said police Capt. Jamil Hussein.
[snip]
But burning victims alive introduced a new method of brutality that was likely to be reciprocated by the other sect as the Shiites and Sunnis continue killing one another in unprecedented numbers. The gruesome attack, which came despite a curfew in Baghdad, capped a day in which at least 87 people were killed or found dead in sectarian violence across Iraq.
In Hurriyah, the rampaging militiamen also burned and blew up four mosques and torched several homes in the district, Hussein said.
[snip]
President Jalal Talabani emerged from lengthy meetings with other Iraqi leaders late Friday and said the defense minister, Abdul-Qader al-Obaidi, indicated that the Hurriyah neighborhood had been quiet throughout the day.
But Imad al-Hasimi, a Sunni elder in Hurriyah, confirmed Hussein's account of the immolations. He told Al-Arabiya television he saw people who were drenched in kerosene and then set afire, burning to death before his eyes.
Two workers at Kazamiyah Hospital also confirmed that bodies from the clashes and immolation had been taken to the morgue at their facility.
They refused to be identified by name, saying they feared retribution.
And the Association of Muslim Scholars, the most influential Sunni organization in Iraq, said even more victims were burned to death in attacks on the four mosques. It claimed a total of 18 people had died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque.
For those of you following this story closely, you know that Imad al-Hasimi quickly retracted his claim when asked for details by the Iraqi Interior Ministry, and that the Associated Press was perhaps deceptive in not noting that the Association of Muslim Scholars is "the most influential Sunni organization in Iraq" largely because of their deep suspected ties with both the Sunni insurgency and al Qaeda itself:
The Association of Muslim Scholars ... ...also sometimes called Association of Muslim Clerics or Muslim Scholars Association), are a group of Sunni Muslim religious leaders in Iraq. The Association is believed to have strong links with Al-Qaeda terrorists...
They did not recognize the U.S. appointed government as legitimate and have at times questioned any democratically elected government and democracy itself. They have previously asked for withdrawal of American troops, who they accuse of causing the deaths of over 30 000 Iraqis since the war began. They publicly support Al-Qaeda and support the car bombs and the sectarian violence. The group has negotiated (along side with the Iraqi Islamic Party) the cease-fire for the city of Fallujah and the release of several hostages for money. They have poor relations with nearly all Iraqi groups, most notably Shia groups, including followers of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and the cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.
The Association claims dozens of its members have been killed by US troops, Sunni militants and Shi'ite militias.
[snip]
It was formed on the 14th of April 2003, only four days after the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad by a U.S.-led invasion in 2003 by a group of former regime loyalists who oppose any democratic changes and consider democracy as and ant-Islamic concept. They finance their activities through the ransoms they get from the kidnapping activities in Iraq.
Of course, we can't forget "Jamil Hussein," the long-time (two year) source for the Associated Press, who it is turns out, isn't Jamil Hussein at all.
Is it now time to serve AP and their defenders a nice, heaping serving of you know what? Perhaps, but what, precisely, would that accomplish?
I'm not absolving the Associated Press of their faulty response by any means—I still think the manner in which AP Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll in particular handled this incident requires her organization to ask for her resignation, and perhaps some AP reporters and local editors deserve dismissal—but I am far more interesting in fixing what I first postulated was a terminally-flawed methodology for gathering the news way back on November 30, 2006, when this story was in its infancy:
In short, we aren't questioning all of AP's stories based upon a single story, we are questioning a broken methodology that lead to such a story. There exists in the mediaÂ’s reporting in Iraq no effective editorial checks at the very root level of reporting, to verify that the most basic elements of the story are indeed factual, much less biased.
This is not just about one questionable story, or even one questionable source.
[snip]
The flawed methodology that weakens the essential credibility of the news-gathering process effects the overwhelming majority of stories printed and broadcast about Iraq each week. This weakness, this inherent and unchecked instability and inability to verify the core facts and actors in the most basic of stories, points out a methodological flaw in the news gathering efforts common to every major news organization reporting in Iraq.
Am I attempting to say that all AP reporting, or all news media reporting in general coming from Iraq, is fraudulent? Of course not. There is a great deal of violence occurring in the city, a fact buttressed by verified and corroborated news accounts every day.
But what is strongly suggested by Jamilgate is that the media in general, and the Associated Press in this instance, are simply unable to account for how sectarian, tribal and political biases may shape the information passed from source to reporter, from reporter to editor, and editor to publication.
It seems at readily apparent that due to the dangers of reporting in a warzone, and the language barriers that are in place, that it is very difficult for the Associated Press and other news organizations to verify the facts of stories before they are published using their current fact-checking methodologies.
They are, in many instances, apparently reduced to "faith-based reporting, " where sources who have been reliable in the past are taken at their word once they have established a certain degree of credibility. This leads us to a situation where those with biases can entrench themselves as credible sources, and then use their trusted relationship with the media to disseminate agenda-based information after that credibility has been established.
Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll herself based her defense of Jamil Hussein thusly (my bold):
No one – not a single person – raised questions about Hussein’s accuracy or his very existence in all that time. Those questions were raised only after he was quoted by name describing a terrible attack in a neighborhood that U.S. and Iraqi forces have struggled to make safe.
Jamil Gulaim "XX" sold himself to the AP, and Carroll's apparent defense is that no one questioned his reporting before. Of course, not. He was establishing his credibility in the period before AP started using him as a named source, and afterward... well, that is where we stand now.
The current situation, where we know that the overwhelming majority of reporting coming out of Iraq is more than likely accurate, but because of such egregious failures as evidenced by AP's Hurriyah reporting (and perhaps other "Jamil Hussein" stories that I am still following up on) and pattern of denials and ignoring valid criticism to the point of attacking those that dare question their methods and accuracy from top AP officers, we find it difficult to trust even this mostly accurate reporting for fear another Hurriyah is lurking just outside the headline.
It is past time for an independent investigation to determine how AP not only fell for a story with elements both grossly exaggerated and in parts falsified, but to come up with a new and more rigorous methodology to verify the factual accuracy of its reporting.
I begrudge no one their view of what the think of the success or failures of the Iraq War thus far may be, but they have the right to base those opinions upon factual, transparent reporting, something that the Associated Press under Kathleen Carroll's "stonewall and deny" leadership cannot apparently provide.
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Excellent post, as always, Bob. I added an excerpt and link to my post here.
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 22, 2007 01:34 PM (n7SaI)
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You're being too soft on them. AP knew this was bunk from the git-go as demonstrated by their unwillingness to offer any actual proof and stonewall denials.
Decertify and boot'em out of the theater until such time as they can demonstrate to the public they're worthy of trust again.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 22, 2007 04:16 PM (HoI9m)
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I agree with PA, Bob...you ARE in a generous mood today.
"It is past time for an independent investigation to determine how AP not only
fell for a story
with elements both grossly exaggerated and in parts falsified, but to come up with a new and more rigorous methodology
to verify the factual accuracy of its reporting."
I separated out the above quote, because "fell for a story" implies that they were "duped". This is a position that I simply see not the slightest evidence to suggest it. Green Helmet guy wasn't "duping" the people on the scene, they were complicit in his staging of events by reporting it AS IF, it were true.
If...and I do mean if...at ANY time, the AP was "believing" the stories put forth by "Jamil Hussein"...and were FOOLED by him...then all they had to do was come clean, say that the reports on the Hurriya incident were found out to be false, they regret the error and will follow up with actual facts.
They did not do ANY of that. The coverup is what fuels the disbelief that they duped...and ALL their actions suggest they were complicit in the first place...or certainly engaged in a passive acquiescence to the model of using sub-sourced whisper campaigns and urban legend which they blissfully passed off as "facts" and "news".
If "Jamil Hussein" is indeed a composite character made up of several sub-sources...then there is NO other conclusion one can reach, except to say that he is equally unethical as Green Helmet guy. Each is "staging" events in his own way as an "authority figure"...except "Jamil" is implicated in over 60 stories.
"Jamil" is a ruse on a grander scale and on multiple layers and levels. "Jamil" is not his real name, is not the "police source" he was made out to be...in that he had no forensic or personal knowledge of events on the scene. At least Green Helmet guy appeared as himself on the phony scenes he was creating.
It's not that AP needs to come up with "a new and more rigorous methodology"...the AP needs to start adhering to an old methodology of wanting to tell the truth.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 22, 2007 05:18 PM (5RM9g)
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January 21, 2007
Hussein of Cards
And finally, we get to the
truth of the matter:
AP Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll indignantly attacked those who had questioned the global news organization's reporting: "I never quite understood why people chose to disbelieve us about this particular man on this particular story," she told Editor and Publisher. "AP runs hundreds of stories a day, and has run thousands of stories about things that have happened in Iraq."
Well, Bryan Preston and I visited the area during our Iraq trip last week. Several mosques did, in fact, come under attack by Mahdi Army forces. But the "destroyed" mosques all still stand. Iraqi and U.S. Army officials say that two of them received no fire damage whatsoever. Another, which we filmed, was abandoned and empty when it was attacked.
WE obtained summary reports and photos filed at the time by Iraqi and U.S. Army troops on the scene. They contain no corroborating evidence of Hussein's claim that "Shiite militiamen grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive near Iraqi soldiers who did not intervene."
There is more, much more, in Michelle's NY Post article, and I suggest that you take the time to read it all, but the heart of the matter is that AP's reporters seem to have greatly exaggerated what took place in Hurriyah on November 24.
Not a single mosque was "burned and blew up" as AP reported, though they did come under some small arms fire and two were attacked with primitive Molotov cocktails. Not a single soul died in an "inferno" at the al-Muhaimin (var. al Muhaymin) mosque, much less the 18 including women and children, as reported by an al-Qaeda-aligned group (the Association of Muslim Scholars) that the AP wouldn't even identify as extremists as other news organizations have done.
AP's most graphic element, missing from all other news organizations' coverage of Shia attacks in Hurriyah and elsewhere, was a single-sourced report by longtime AP source Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein (an apparent pseudonym) that six men had been pulled from the al-Mustafa mosque, doused in kerosene, and burned alive. While al-Mustafa was subject to small arms fire and an attack with a crude incendiary device, no one was pulled into the street and immolated.
The Associated Press reporting of the incident in Hurriyah doesn't stand up.
And did I mention that this wasn't the only account sourced to Jamil Hussein that cannot be corroborated?
* * *
I've continued to do some digging into one of the stories sourced to Jamil (not really) Hussein, the alleged assassination of Iraqi Police Captain Amir Kamil on June 20, 2006.
According to AP:
Elsewhere in the capital, police Capt. Amir Kamil, who provided security for Yarmouk hospital, was shot to death Tuesday at a bus station, Capt. Jamil Hussein said.
Unlike most of Hussein's rather vague claims, this one provided specific detail I could attempt to follow up on. We know the name of the victim, who he worked for, where he worked, and at what rank, and even know how and where (in general terms) he was killed.
Unlike all of AP's other stories sourced to Jamil Hussein (including the Hurriyah attacks), this story even has a picture associated with it.
A caption provided with the picture in a sidebar here reads:
Two friends of police Capt. Amir Kamil comfort each other at al-Yarmouk hospital after he was shot...
It seems like this story could be easily verified, doesn't it? Alas, that is not the case. As I noted previously, I was unable to find any English-language stories from other news agencies corroborating the AP's claim of Captain Kamil's assassination. A reader with Lexis-Nexis access reported the same.
Hoping to run it down through other channels, I asked CPATT and MNC-I to also try to verify this account, and turned it over to a journalist with solid ties to the Arab Press (the journalist wishes to remain anonymous) to see if any local Iraqi or Middle Eastern Press agencies might have corroborating accounts. Previously, they (CPATT, MNC-I, Arab media contacts) were able to confirm the assassination of Iraqi Defense Ministry employee Mohammed Musaab Talal al-Amari. To date, the al-Amari murder remains the only Jamil Hussein account of 40 I investigated that was conclusively corroborated.
Two sources, CPATT and MNC-I PAO, often work together on MOI related issues, and this is what MNC-I PAO Lt. Michael Dean was able to relay to me via email about police deaths reported to MNF-I in Baghdad on June 20:
Mr. Owens:
On June 20, 2006, MNCI has reports of only 2 incidents that
involved the deaths of Iraqi Police.
1) At 11:28 a.m., the Iraqi Police reported murder of 1 civilian (unknown employment) and 2 National Police officers. Mehmond Hamade's corpse was reported to be located at the Kadhimiya Hospital (northern Baghdad on east side of Tigris). Also, the heads of two 1-1 National Police officers, NOC Monsa Uttawi and SGM Mehmond Muter Lefta, were discovered in the Tigris.
2) A 4.5-hour small arms fire incident in Al Rasafah in eastern Baghdad (Yarmok is on the western side of Tigris) during the afternoon of June 20 beginning at approximately 1:30 p.m. resulted in one Iraqi Police officer killed, one Iraqi Police officer wounded, 2 Iraqi soldiers wounded, 5 civilians killed and 5 civilians wounded. The incident consisted of small arms fire being received from nearby building. No mention of the name of the Iraqi Police officer killed.
Vr,
LT Dean
He adds:
Please keep in mind that MNCI is not the collector of all information regarding incidents involving Iraqi Security Forces, including police.
Neither event even remotely describes the bus station assassination described by Jamil Hussein, though Lt. Dean mentions that they do not collect all information regarding police casualties and deaths.
A report from my journalistic source indicates that his Arab media contacts could not easily turn up Arab-language accounts of Captain Kamil's assassination as they had been able to in the al-Amari murder, and that they would attempt to dig deeper. He also cautioned that there might be no "definitive answer."
No definitive answers, and no corroborating accounts.
Stop me if you've heard this one before.
Update: Michelle has photos of the not-quite blown up mosques at MichelleMalkin.com.
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I still don't understand the LLLogic here:
The AP makes wild claims about burned mosques and people, and attributes them to an Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein, as it had done with 60 other stories.
The Dextrosphere smells something fishy, and questions this particular story, the existence of "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein", and the veracity of the other stories that name him as source.
The Iraqi Interior Ministry says there is no "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein". The AP says there damn well is, but slowly backs away from many of the original wild claims in the burning story.
Weeks later, the AP says the IIM admits there IS an "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein". A few days later, they explain that "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein" was actually a pseudonym, and that there is in fact an "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil (Not Hussein)".
If "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein" were a pseudonym, journalistic ethics would require the first use of that name in every story clearly identify it as such. But that isn't what the AP did. Nor has any independent source corroborated any of the specific 'facts' expressed by "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein" in any of the stories.
And the Levosphere says this all proves how delusional WE are for not believing in the existence and/or veracity of "Iraqi Police Capt. Jamil Hussein" all along. Even though virtually everything in the story that started this mess has been changed by the AP, even as it 'stands by' it.
Posted by: The Monster at January 21, 2007 01:00 PM (tw5mW)
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There exist some very uneasy parallels in the AP's "Iraqi Horror Ficture Show" and Durham's own "Tony and Tina's Bachelor Party".
It seems that the AP (and Reuters and the BBC and CNN et all) has mastered the art of painting a "ficture"...which is half picture (either word or fautograph) of what is "taking place" in Iraq and half fiction. More or less.
I should say more or less half...sometimes even a sprinkling of fact and a ton of fiction seems to be just fine with them as well..
Whereupon, all the neo-Socialists (World Populists or Citizens Of the World-[COWS], if you prefer) shout back the same lines day after day in rote memorized glee...and marvel at just how clever they are to all know the very moment to recite their audience participation well rehearsed parts.
We have parallel scripts with accompanying subplots that spiral into the nether reaches of leftist inanity. We have 88 professors who dress up in Socialist Ninja outfits and go maruading across the due process landscape with reckless abandon as the Nifong Foo Fighters...like 88 flat keys on the PC piano all overstrung to the same high-pitched screeching note...clanging over and over and over again.
The "formula" audience participation scenes play out day after day, all with the same "message".
The TRUTH doesn't matter, the MESSAGE matters.
The 88 Nifong Foo Fighters will not back down from what should be as humiliating an exhibition as one could conjure...because in the theater of Socialist absurd...they don't see that the fabric of their "message" has suffered the slightest
tear. Who CARES about the TRUTH?...they screech.
WE assigned guilt long before these boys were even born, we have scripted who is going to be always right and who is going to be always wrong, now don't interrupt us as we recite the pre-scripted lines.
And the AP (and Reuters and BBC and CNN and NYTimes et al) says "Who CARES about the TRUTH?"..their headlines scream. Jamil Hussein is a CHARACTER in our prescripted "reporting" of the MESSAGE of "news". It doesn't matter if he exists, it doesn't matter if six Sunni's were immolated, it doesn't matter if we get even a KERNEL of the STORY correct...we are giving you the MESSAGE. That's all that matters.
We are giving you a "ficture" of what is happening in Iraq. And it's a horror...it's all Bush's fault and now go back and memorize when and what lines to recite when the appropriate moment comes along.
And remember this, says Orwell...."the leftists are CHAMPIONS of due process and CHAMPIONS of free speech and CHAMPIONS of women's rights against sexual harassment in the workplace and CHAMPIONS of truth.....as long as they are all consistent with the MESSAGE."
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 21, 2007 02:53 PM (5RM9g)
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 21, 2007 03:43 PM (n7SaI)
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January 20, 2007
AP: The Art of the Dodge
Almost two months after the Associated Press ran the story that six Sunnis were pulled from a mosque in the Baghdad neighborhood of Hurriyah, doused in kerosene and set ablaze, the Associated Press continues to dodge a series of very simple questions surrounding their alleged deaths, and the deaths of 18 other Sunnis their reports claim were murdered.
Four days ago, I sent a simple series of direct questions to Linda M. Wagner, Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs for the Associated Press.
On November 24 and 25, 2006, AP reported four mosques--al-Mustafa, Nidaa Allah, al-Muhaimin and al-Qaqaqa mosques--were attacked "with rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and automatic rifles," before being "burned and blew up." These allegations were directly attributed to Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein. Successive AP coverage has dropped all mention of three of the mosques. Does the Associated Press still maintain that four mosques were attacked in Hurriyah on November 24, 2006 with RPGs, heavy machine guns and assault rifles, and that these four mosques were burned and blown up?
The AP also cited the Association of Muslim Scholars as a source for a claim that at one of these mosques (al-Muhaimin) "18 people had died in an inferno" as a result of these attacks. Do you think it was responsible of the Associated Press to run these allegations considering that the Association of Muslim Scholars is alleged to have strong ties with both the Sunni insurgency and al Qaeda? Should AP have mentioned these ties to terrorist groups when it cited the AMS as a source? These 18 claimed dead have also disappeared for subsequent AP reports. Does the Associated Press still stand behind this claim they reported?
In both instances, if the Associated Press no longer feels these accounts are credible, don't you have a responsibility as an ethical news organization to print a correction or a retraction of these charges?
Further, I have seen written claims shortly after the first AP claims of an attack that AP Television has video footage of damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque, where AP source Jamil Hussein claims six men were pulled from the mosque and immolated. Does the Associated Press indeed have such footage? If so, why has it not been mentioned since November 30, and can I obtain a copy of that footage?
If the Associated Press does not have the video footage of damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque from the attack that left six men immolated, the why has the Associated Press not acknowledged this, and printed a retraction or a correction for this claim?
As you can see, my primary line of questioning is wondering why the AP has back of claims made in the first several days of reporting, without printing a correction or a retraction of these claims.
I'd also like to know if the Associated Press still stands behind the accounts sourced to Jamil Hussein by the Associated Press between April and November of 2006.
Late Friday afternoon, Wagner finally offered a response... just no direct answers to any of my questions:
When following up on past reports that feature new information, news agencies do not repeat all of the details that were in their original breaking news reports. This does not mean that they are retracting what they had published previously unless a new report, correction or clarification states that explicitly.
A search of news reports in Nexis and Reuters shows that reporters for numerous news agencies, including The New York Times, Washington Post, and Reuters reported attacks on four or five Sunni mosques in Hurriyah (also spelled Hurriya) and additional sites elsewhere in Baghdad on Friday, November 24, 2006. As may happen in breaking news reports from active combat zones, the precise toll of death and injury can be difficult to establish.
Below are relevant passages from several news accounts of the incidents in Baghdad on that date. I have sent your questions to our International news desk. If any new information about this topic becomes available, I'll let you know.
Wagner also provided a list of other news sources that wrote about mosque attacks in Hurriyah on November 24.
Despite providing some interesting reading, Wagner still avoided answering the questions I asked.
Stripped of the background information, I asked Wagner a total of 10 questions:
- Does the Associated Press still maintain that four mosques were attacked in Hurriyah on November 24, 2006 with RPGs, heavy machine guns and assault rifles, and
- that these four mosques were burned and blown up?
- Do you think it was responsible of the Associated Press to run these allegations considering that the Association of Muslim Scholars is alleged to have strong ties with both the Sunni insurgency and al Qaeda?
- Should AP have mentioned these ties to terrorist groups when it cited the AMS as a source?
- These 18 claimed dead have also disappeared for subsequent AP reports. Does the Associated Press still stand behind this claim they reported?
- In both instances, if the Associated Press no longer feels these accounts are credible, don't you have a responsibility as an ethical news organization to print a correction or a retraction of these charges?
- Further, I have seen written claims shortly after the first AP claims of an attack that AP Television has video footage of damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque, where AP source Jamil Hussein claims six men were pulled from the mosque and immolated. Does the Associated Press indeed have such footage?
- If so, why has it not been mentioned since November 30, and can I obtain a copy of that footage?
- If the Associated Press does not have the video footage of damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque from the attack that left six men immolated, the why has the Associated Press not acknowledged this, and printed a retraction or a correction for this claim?
- I'd also like to know if the Associated Press still stands behind the accounts sourced to Jamil Hussein by the Associated Press between April and November of 2006.
Wagner's response only provided three answers:
- When following up on past reports that feature new information, news agencies do not repeat all of the details that were in their original breaking news reports. This does not mean that they are retracting what they had published previously unless a new report, correction or clarification states that explicitly.
- A search of news reports in Nexis and Reuters shows that reporters for numerous news agencies, including The New York Times, Washington Post, and Reuters reported attacks on four or five Sunni mosques in Hurriyah (also spelled Hurriya) and additional sites elsewhere in Baghdad on Friday, November 24, 2006.
- As may happen in breaking news reports from active combat zones, the precise toll of death and injury can be difficult to establish.
So let's see what the Associated Press response does not answer:
- Wagner does not say that the Associated Press still maintains that four mosques were attacked with RPGs, heavy machine guns and assault rifles.
- Wagner does not say that the AP still maintains these four mosques were burned and blown up.
- Wagner does not address whether or not it was responsible of the Associated Press to run allegations made by the Association of Muslim Scholars, a group alleged to have strong ties with both the Sunni insurgency and al Qaeda, or
- whether or not the Associated Press should have mentioned these terrorist ties to their readers
- Wagner does not answer whether or not AP television captured video footage showing damage to the al-Mustafa mosque as the previously claimed
- Wagner does not mention whether or not the Associated Press stands behind the accounts sourced to Jamil Hussein
For those of you counting, Wagner also didn't answer this question:
In both instances, if the Associated Press no longer feels these accounts are credible, don't you have a responsibility as an ethical news organization to print a correction or a retraction of these charges?
Wagner appears to avoid any direct statements saying that the Associated Press stands behind their Hurriyah reporting, does not acknowledge the existence of the AP television video AP once claimed to have, and most noticeably, refuses to state whether or not they stand behind the stories sourced to the man they call Jamil Hussein.
These are not what I would consider encouraging answers.
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You're going to have to play 20-questions and frame them like a lawyer - yes/no answers with no room for dissembling.
ex: In this question:
Should AP have mentioned these ties to terrorist groups when it cited the AMS as a source?
There are actually several issues.
Q: Is AP aware of allegations of AMS terrorist ties? Yes/No
Q: Does AP believe AMS has terrorist ties? Yes/No
Q: Does AP have a vetting process for sources? Yes/No
Q: If yes above, Has AMS passed AP vetting procedure for sources? Yes/No
Q: Does AP consider AMS a "reliable source"? Yes/No
Q: Does AP policy demand a disclaimer on sources AP considered unreliable or unvetted? Yes/No
Now, you're in a good position to ask the original question ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 20, 2007 04:24 AM (yrVWG)
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Could some of these AP people actually be so bloomin' dumb that they actually believe their reporters can do no wrong? I excerpted and linked from
Part 41 of my Jamilgate series. (My how time flies when you're having fun!)
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 20, 2007 04:25 AM (n7SaI)
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"A search of news reports in Nexis and Reuters shows that reporters for numerous news agencies, including The New York Times, Washington Post, and Reuters reported attacks on four or five Sunni mosques in Hurriyah (also spelled Hurriya) and additional sites elsewhere in Baghdad on Friday, November 24, 2006."
Just out of curiosity, since the NYT and WP run AP stories, are their reports based on the AP story?
No, I haven't checked for myself, it's just idle curiosity.
Posted by: Larry at January 20, 2007 06:46 PM (Uewxa)
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HA! I was right!
Earlier I posted that:
"...It takes a lot of time and effort to create a tissue of lies that will skirt the issues you bring up, but still maintain the look pious infalibility they hide behind..."
What'd I tell ya? Right on the money. If that skirt was any bigger, you could hide a high school prom in it.
Then I went on to say:
"...Cut'em some slack, CY. As the world's largest generator of BS, questions such as yours only serve to constipate an otherwise effective mass s**t producer. Sit back, relax, and wait. I'm sure the fertilizer is on the way from these lying bastards..."
And boy-howdy did the fertilizer come. Heck, I was even right about the "lying bastards" part, too.
I'm just a prognosticating fool. I think I'll go out and buy me a lottery ticket...
Posted by: WB at January 20, 2007 11:23 PM (HF5HJ)
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So what if The New York Times, Washington Post, and Reuters reported attacks on four or five Sunni mosques in Hurriyah on Friday, November 24, 2006?
If all of the AP's friends jumped off a bridge, would the AP? Even in this case, where the AP reinvestigated the story and ran a follow-up that omits the apparently intact mosques?
Posted by: Karl at January 22, 2007 02:23 AM (h4EAR)
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How to take her comment? THat is really the question. I mean, Carroll seems to indicate that later reports don't carry as much detail sometimes. First off - that is completely back-asswards. As you gain more detail over time, you include more detail. But what seems even funnier, it seems that, contrary to all the evidence, Carroll is still grasping at the story that 6 people were immolated. According to her statement, just because the information dropped from later versions, doesn't mean it's not true. What a load of bifurcation!
Posted by: Specter at January 22, 2007 07:10 AM (ybfXM)
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January 18, 2007
My Three Jamils
Right idea, wrong Jamil(s). Well, maybe not.
Jamil Hussein—all three of them—have been arrested in the West Bank:
In the town of 'Azzoun, Israeli forces arrested three brothers: Mahmoud Mohammed Jamil Hussein, Bilal Mohammed Jamil Hussein and Maher Mohammed Jamil Hussein.
Palestinian security sources report that Israeli forces have intensified its military operations in the city of Qalqilia in recent times. The number of military operations has risen and the number of political prisoners from Qalqilia in Israeli prisons is currently around 600.
Up to 150 of them are Jamil Hussein... actually, I'm just making that part up.
That said, if there were more of the Iraqi Jamil Hussein's—the guy we now know is actually Jamil Gulaim "XX" (not Hussein), despite AP protestations to the contrary followed by their sudden silence—it would go a long way towards describing how one of the Associated Press' most prolific sources could possibly be reporting from almost everywhere in Baghdad except his own location as shown in this map (red areas indicates Jamil XX's assigned neighborhoods, orange areas neighboring neighborhoods, and the red sunbursts indicating the location of the attacks he alleged occurred):
Having multiple Jamils is every bit as credible as expecting one police officer to able to provide accurate accounts from all across a city of 8 million people, don't you think? I think so, and the Associated Press editors should have wondered about that, but obviously, they didn't, and there is no public indication they've changed their ways.
It's too bad, really.
They could stand to learn a lot from Reuters, who has now tightened their standards as a result of the Adnan Hajj scandal (h/t Pajamas Media):
The agency had tightened editing procedures to ensure that only senior photo editors dealt with sensitive images, invested in more training and supervision and strengthened its code of conduct for photographers, Schlesinger said.
He named Stephen Crisp, a Briton who has worked for Reuters in a variety of senior positions since 1985, as the new chief photographer for the Middle East and said he had taken up his assignment in Dubai this month.
"His predecessor in the Middle East role was dismissed in the course of the investigation for his handling of the case," Schlesinger wrote.
A company spokeswoman, Eileen Wise, said Reuters would not provide further details, citing staff confidentiality.
As senior members of the Associated Press continue to claim they stand behind their Jamilgate reporting on one hand while rewriting it on the other, it appears that Reuters is not the only news agency needing to have staff members dismissed.
I even think I could even suggest where to start...
Update: Dang it, Jules Crittenden took this and did it much better. I guess that's why he's the professional.
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Posted by: Bill Faith at January 18, 2007 02:24 PM (n7SaI)
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Why are the Pali's hoarding all the real Jamil Husseins when AP desperately needs one in Iraq?
Hasn't anyone told the Pali's that hoarding isn't nice? Don't they teach "sharing" in kindergarten?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 18, 2007 05:15 PM (yrVWG)
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It is not surprising that Arab brothers are named that way. They take their father's, grandfather's and sometimes great-grandfather's names. Only their first name is given.
There is no point to made here.
Posted by: Actual at January 18, 2007 06:41 PM (r5lxj)
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Every time I see that photo of her behind that AP podium I expect to hear "you ARE the weakest link!".
She might want to exchange that tan jacket for something in black leather.
Posted by: crosspatch at January 19, 2007 03:47 PM (pxZRL)
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January 17, 2007
Back From Iraq
The
Hot Air crew of Bryan Preston and Michelle Malkin are safely back from Iraq and their embed at Forward Operating Base Justice, and are rolling out reports pretty fast and furious.
Michelle previews their reporting with video from Baghdad in her latest Vent, and also provides commentary on MichelleMalkin.com, in a post titled, Back From Baghdad.
Bryan Preston begins an analysis of his view of what they learned in Assessing Iraq on Hot Air.
Michelle notes that the soldiers at FOB Justice would welcome MSNBC's Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews as embeds, and I'm fairly certain that MSNBC could probably pick up the tab of such a trip.
Do you think they'll take up our troops on the offer?
Me neither.
Michelle and Brian also note in their reports that they did make it into Hurriyah, where the Associated Press still apparently maintains that 24 Sunnis were killed and four mosques were "burned and blew up" by Shia militiamen. Do you think they Associated Press is worried? I do.
After last week's bombshell that AP's source is not named Jamil Gholaiem Hussein as AP insists, but instead Jamil Gulaim "XX" (his second middle name and last name redacted) according to his personnel records, Linda M. Wagner, Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs for the Associated Press, contacted me within 1.5 when I pressed AP reporter Steven R. Hurst for confirmation.
She stated in part:
Steve Hurst passed your e-mail inquiry along to me. AP stands by the story below, which provides the full name of the source whose existence was acknowledged to AP by Iraq's Interior Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf in an interview on Thursday, January 4. I have bolded the relevant passages for ease of finding them in the text.
In short, they were standing behind the name Jamil Gholaiem Hussein. But did AP intend to stand behind all their claims made during their reporting of the Hurriyah incident, where AP reported a total of 24 people killed, and four mosques attacked, "burned and blew up?"
And so I sent the following questions to Linda Wagner yesterday afternoon:
I have some questions for you regarding the Associated Press' reporting of the Hurriyah reporting.
On November 24 and 25, 2006, AP reported four mosques--al-Mustafa, Nidaa Allah, al-Muhaimin and al-Qaqaqa mosques--were attacked "with rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and automatic rifles," before being "burned and blew up." These allegations were directly attributed to Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein. Successive AP coverage has dropped all mention of three of the mosques. Does the Associated Press still maintain that four mosques were attacked in Hurriyah on November 24, 2006 with RPGs, heavy machine guns and assault rifles, and that these four mosques were burned and blown up?
The AP also cited the Association of Muslim Scholars as a source for a claim that at one of these mosques (al-Muhaimin) "18 people had died in an inferno" as a result of these attacks. Do you think it was responsible of the Associated Press to run these allegations considering that the Association of Muslim Scholars is alleged to have strong ties with both the Sunni insurgency and al Qaeda? Should AP have mentioned these ties to terrorist groups when it cited the AMS as a source? These 18 claimed dead have also disappeared for subsequent AP reports. Does the Associated Press still stand behind this claim they reported?
In both instances, if the Associated Press no longer feels these accounts are credible, don't you have a responsibility as an ethical news organization to print a correction or a retraction of these charges?
Further, I have seen written claims shortly after the first AP claims of an attack that AP Television has video footage of damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque, where AP source Jamil Hussein claims six men were pulled from the mosque and immolated. Does the Associated Press indeed have such footage? If so, why has it not been mentioned since November 30, and can I obtain a copy of that footage?
If the Associated Press does not have the video footage of damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque from the attack that left six men immolated, the why has the Associated Press not acknowledged this, and printed a retraction or a correction for this claim?
As you can see, my primary line of questioning is wondering why the AP has back of claims made in the first several days of reporting, without printing a correction or a retraction of these claims.
I'd also like to know if the Associated Press still stands behind the accounts sourced to Jamil Hussein by the Associated Press between April and November of 2006.
Thank you very much for your time.
So far, the AP's Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs that contacted me within 1.5 hours of my contacting another AP employee last week has been silent on this longer list of questions.
Perhaps teh Assocaited Press hasan inkling of what Michelle and Bryan's Excellent Adventure may mean to their Hurriyah reporting. I have a feeling we will all know very soon.
Update: Audio of Michelle's interview on The Laura Ingraham Show.
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CY:
You are way off-base by expecting AP to answer your questions as quickly as they did the first time. To compare that response with not getting a response from your second list of questions is unfair and unreasonable.
It takes a lot of time and effort to create a tissue of lies that will skirt the issues you bring up, but still maintain the look pious infalibility they hide behind.
Cut'em some slack, CY. As the world's largest generator of BS, questions such as yours only server to constipate an otherwise effective mass s**t producer. Sit back, relax, and wait. I'm sure the fertilizer is on the way from these lying bastards.
Posted by: WB at January 17, 2007 11:18 AM (qF6jT)
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Linked ya. Looks like my welcome home post is going to turn into Part 39 of my Jamilgate series.
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 17, 2007 02:30 PM (n7SaI)
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Yeah, but how're you going to handle having blood of the XX family on your hands, you Chimpy wingnut? ; )
Funny how those "progressives" deeply committed to humanitarian values and Iraqi safety have fled CY. The median and average IQ of the commentariat is skyrocketing accordingly.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at January 17, 2007 03:00 PM (L/ClK)
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That's a neat trick. You have to photo and proff and they don't know what you have. Bet they're sweating BB's by now.
String this out for days or weeks and keep them hopping to make up lies to cover their previous lies.
Great the see Michelle and everyone else back safe. The dhimmi's would have had all of you killed if they could have pinned down your location.
Posted by: Scrapiron at January 17, 2007 10:20 PM (YadGF)
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Baghdad mosques are built of reinforced concrete not wood.
About 36000 civillians were killed in Iraq. Focusing on these 6 or 24 or 30 makes the rest of your arguments look weak. Time to move on.
Posted by: John Ryan at January 18, 2007 11:32 AM (TcoRJ)
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Yes, but do you have any children serving in Iraq? If not, you must be silenced.
Posted by: Paul at January 19, 2007 09:38 AM (eZIE1)
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"Time to move on."
Isn't this what the liberals say each time one of their lies is about to be exposed? No, it's not 'time to move on' but time to reveal the TRUTH!!
Posted by: docdave at January 19, 2007 12:29 PM (SBpOG)
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January 16, 2007
Pretty Boy
What's in a name?
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That's some pretty insightful insight. Its not hard evidence, but it is something to make you think. Then again, maybe this is why he used the name Jamil Hussein, because his real name is too embarassing. Maybe he should have just called himself MAX POWER.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at January 16, 2007 11:44 AM (oC8nQ)
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January 11, 2007
AP: Discrediting Jamil's Sources
A wise and well-traveled journalist spoke with me via email yesterday regarding the stupidity of mistakes made by the large and the arrogant Goliaths of our world:
...One thing they ALWAYS do, in my experience, is make MAJOR mistakes in the very beginning. Mistakes that are so major that people say, "Nope, that can't be true. They never would do something that stupid." But they do. And then the big people usually rely on intimidation...and if that doesn't work (and it's not with you on this), those initial huge errors they make become HUGE and inescapable...
And so back to the beginning I went, and indeed, the Associated Press seems to have done an excellent job of discrediting Jamil Huss—excuse me, "Jamil XX" on their own. How much did they discredit him?
To the point most rational people would question why he was ever allowed to continue as an Associated Press source at all.
* * *
Do you remember this JunkYardBlog post, where See Dubya marveled at the ability of Captain Jamil XX to be report incidents of violence from literally all over Baghdad?
See Dubya noted:
I think I may have been the first to notice the significance of the wide variety of Baghdad locations from which "Captain Jamil Hussein" had reported incidents of violence to the AP. On November 26th, I said he was
...reporting chaos and mayhem in Sunni and Shiite neighborhoods all over Baghdad--Sadr City, Dora, Mansour, and others.
In other words, it looks less like Capt. Hussein is an eyewitness to this event, and more like he's just an unofficial spokesman. But a spokesman for whom?
(As it turns out, Sadr City is one of the few places in Baghdad he hasn't reported from.) The problem of the geographical plausibility of Captain Hussein's claims has been commented on several times since then, most recently by Lt. Col. Bob Bateman, who noted that the distance between Hurriyah and Yarmouk made him an odd choice to comment authoritatively on the Hurriyah mosque burning:
In other words, in going to their "normal" source for this story, the AP went to the equivalent of a Brooklyn local police precinct for a story that occurred in northern Yonkers! Hello? What would a cop in Brooklyn know about a crime in Yonkers? That's what doesn't make sense to me. (And why didn't the AP reveal, until challenged, that this source was not from the district where the events allegedly occurred, or even from a neighboring district, but is from a moderately distant part of this 7-million-person city?)
Actually, though, it's worse than that. If I can continue Col. Bateman's analogy, since April, the AP has been relying on that same Brooklyn cop for reports on violence in not just Yonkers, but the Bronx, Manhattan, Queens, Staten Island, and Jersey City.
To prove that point, See Dubya and and geoff of Uncommon Misconceptions created the following map.
As you can see, Jamil provided information on incidents of violence from neighborhoods all over Baghdad, and the majority of these reports occurred outside of his jurisdiction.
How far outside of his jurisdiction?
I took the map created by See Dubya and geoff, compared it to the detailed NIMA map, and, as best as I could, filled in the Khadra and Yarmouk districts where the Associated Press claimed Jamil had been stationed, and marked a rough outline of those neighborhoods in red. It is quite logical to expect for police officers to be familiar with, and perhaps on rare occasions even be a witness of, violent crimes in the neighborhoods in which they patrol.
It is also plausible that Jamil might "rub shoulders" with officers in surrounding neighborhoods, and thus have access to stories in the neighborhoods of Ma'mun, Mansur, Qadisyiyah, Ummal, Jahid, Hamra, Firdaws, Hayy at Tayran, al 'Adl, and Andalus. These bordering neighborhoods were noted in orange, as they surrounded the two neighborhoods where the Associated Press says Jamil XX served.
This is the result.
In all of the stories plotted on the map by See Dubya and geoff, six took place in surrounding neighborhoods, only one took place in Yarmouk, and none took place in Khadra.
Time and again, reporters for the Associated Press used Captain Jamil as their source for reports of violence in Baghdad far outside of his jurisdiction. It seems highly likely that almost everything Jamil reported to the Associated Press was second-hand information, provided to him by another party or parties. As a legal matter, this kind of evidence would most likely be considered hearsay, and in most instances, would be inadmissible as evidence.
Obviously, the Associated Press has much lower standards of proof than the legal system would require (presumably even in Durham), but just how low are their standards? Are those standards below what we should expect from a professional news organization that claims:
...we insist on the highest standards of integrity and ethical behavior when we gather and deliver the news.
That means we abhor inaccuracies, carelessness, bias or distortions. It means we will not knowingly introduce false information into material intended for publication or broadcast; nor will we alter photo or image content. Quotations must be accurate, and precise.
It means we always strive to identify all the sources of our information, shielding them with anonymity only when they insist upon it and when they provide vital information – not opinion or speculation; when there is no other way to obtain that information; and when we know the source is knowledgeable and reliable.
As the maps above strongly suggest, Jamil XX was relying upon accounts from people other than himself, and was relaying those accounts to the Associated Press, who consistently cited Jamil Hussein as the source. If Jamil is not the actual source, but is merely relaying these accounts from around Baghdad, can the Associated Press claim that they are acting ethically by citing him as their source?
ShouldnÂ’t they have suspected months ago that he was only serving to forward information from others that the Associated Press should have known were apparently in direct contradiction to itÂ’s own policies of identifying all sources?
The questions that arise are thus:
- Who was providing Jamil XX with these stories of violence from outside of not only Yarmouk and Khadrah, but even outside nearby neighborhoods?
- Did the Associated Press ever question him as to why or how he was able to provide reports from all over Baghdad?
- How could the Associated Press ethically cite Jamil Hussein as source if he was only serving to relay stories from all over Baghdad? Wouldn't that be highly deceptive, and against their own stated ethical guidelines?
As Jamil could not reasonably be expected to provide these dozens of accounts from all over Baghdad through first-hand knowledge, where did he get his information? Did he get it from other police officers around Baghdad?
If so, those are the same police officers and other MOI employees that Associated Press Editor Kathleen Carroll continuously attacked for being suspect and I would posit, unreliable sources:
They felt understandably nervous about bringing their accusations up in an area patrolled by a Shiite-led police force that they suspect is allied with the very militia accused in these killings.
Is Executive Editor Carroll implying that the Baghdad police are untrustworthy killers? It sure seems that way. Just paragraphs later, Carroll states even more damningly:
As careful followers of the Iraq story know well, various militias have been accused of operating within the Interior Ministry, which controls the police and has long worked to suppress news of death-squad activity in its ranks. (This is the same ministry that questioned Capt. Hussein’s existence and last week announced plans to take legal action against journalists who report news that creates the impression that security in Iraq is bad, “when the facts are totally different.”)
It seems highly likely that if Jamil XX did get his accounts through official channels, then he got them through the same police officers and MOI employees that Kathleen Carroll excoriated as belonging to death squads and murderous militias.
In her own words, AP's own executive editor discredits the only possible credible and quasi-official providers of Jamil's information.
Of course, their is a "third way."
Would Carroll prefer to discuss which militias or insurgent factions that would be the next most likely unofficial providers of Jamil XX's information? I didn't think so.
To say so much to discredit the Interior Ministry police, and then argue that Jamil Hussein is a credible source, would seem to stretch the credibility of the Associated Press to (or past) the breaking point.
Kathleen Carroll cannot credibly both attack the Iraqi Interior Ministry, and then defend the accounts of Jamil XX that necessarily rely upon the Interior Ministry to provide the information he used in Associated Press accounts.
But oh, will she try...
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Posted by: Bill Faith at January 11, 2007 10:28 PM (n7SaI)
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Well...I would posit that even a Captain in Queens might not know all the things happening is his own area of operations. Heck - I live in a smaller town and our Chief of Police has admitted that he does not know the details of all his small force (20+ officers is all) is working on. So it isn't very likely that Cpt. Jamil knows everything going on in his own station, let alone all over the city and beyond.
Posted by: Specter at January 12, 2007 07:23 AM (ybfXM)
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J-DAMN
And so a major Associated Press claim in "Jamilgate" takes an apparently fatal hit.
According to Bill Costlow of CPATT (Civilian Police Assistance Training Team) in Baghdad, and as forwarded by Lt. Michael Dean of Multinational Corps-Iraq/Joint Operations Command Public Affairs, our now infamous police captain in Iraq appears to be definitively not Jamil Hussein.
Nor is his name Jamil Gholaiem Hussein as stated repeatedly by the Associated Press Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll and other Associated Press employees.
Nor is his name Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim, as he has been called previously in other accounts. According to his personnel records at MOI, confirmed with BG Abdul-Kareem and then reportedly verified by BG Abdul-Karim Khalaf with AP's Baghdad sources, his name is actually Jamil Gulaim "XX".
The "XX" protects his second middle name and real last names, of which "Hussein" is not a part.
To sum up the current situation as things now appear to stand:
- There is no Baghdad police officer at the Khadra police station named Captain Jamil Hussein, and never has been. Jamil Hussein, and Jamil Gholaiem Hussein are pseudonyms for Jamil Gulaim "XX".
- The Associated Press published a pseudonym without acknowledging that fact, apparently knowing, if BG Abdul-Kareem is correct, that they were publishing a false identity. Is that a big deal? HUGE. This is a major breach of journalistic ethics.
- The Associated Press has heavily modified the "facts" of their claims since these two stories here and here on November 24 and November 25. Those claims are:
- That 24 people were burned to death; Six were pulled from the Ahbab al-Mustafa as it was attacked, the were doused and set on fire, according to AP source Captain Jamil Hussein, and that AP also printed a claim by the Association of Muslim Scholars (a group suspected of strong ties to al Qaeda, a detail the AP left out of their reporting) that 18 more people, including women in children, were burned to death in an "inferno" resulting from a Shiite militia attack at the al-Muhaimin mosque. Current AP accounts have dropped the claims of the 18 killed at al-Muhaimin completely, without a retraction or a correction.
- The Associated Press originally claimed four mosques (Ahbab al-Mustafa, Nidaa Allah, al-Muhaimin and al-Qaqaqa) were attacked in Hurriyah according to Police Captain Jamil Hussein, along with several houses. AP has since revised its claim down to one mosque instead of four (presumably the Ahbab al-Mustafa where it says the six men were claimed immolated) and they have curiously dropped the mosque's name from their reporting. They have issued neither a retraction nor a correction for the three mosques they have written out of successive narratives
- The Associated Press initially claimed that Associated Press Television had video showing damage to the Ahbab al-Mustafa mosque where they claim these six men were immolated. After November 30, they have made no further mention of this video that would seem to buttress their claims, nor have I been able to find anyone who has seen it. They have not issued a retraction, nor a correction for this claim. Do they still claim to support it?
- AP's Executive Editor and Senior vice President Kathleen Carroll, and AP's International Editor John Daniszewski have both insisted that Jamil Gholaiem Hussein is real. To make this claim, they presumably knew they were pushing a pseudonym to the public, presumably violating their own stated values and principles.
- The Associated Press has claimed that BG Abdul-Karim Khalaf verified the existence of Jamil Hussein. According to Bill Costlow of CPATT, he did no such thing.
- As this new revelation apparently shows, AP knew they were foisting a pseudonym upon the public, and even when questioned, continued to persist in denying what appears to be the truth.
Further, the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior claims that their is still no evidence that the six murders by immolation in Hurriyah on November 24 ever occurred.
I await Kathleen Carroll's response.
Update: Broken link fixed.
Update: I just got a response from Linda M. Wagner, Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs for the Associated Press, which read in part:
Steve Hurst passed your e-mail inquiry along to me. AP stands by the story below, which provides the full name of the source whose existence was acknowledged to AP by Iraq's Interior Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf in an interview on Thursday, January 4.
I have bolded the relevant passages for ease of finding them in the text.
A fascinating response, for a couple of reasons.
First, the Associated Press insists Jamil Gholaiem Hussein is a Iraqi police Captain at the Kharda police station in Iraq, circa the Jan 4 story they still stand behind (and Wagner referenced). I have a January 11 release saying something quite different, attributed to the same general.
While I have absolutely no power, influence, etc., I did suggest to LT Dean at MNC-I PAO that it might help if Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf spoke at a press conference and squared away these two contradicting stories that are both officially sourced to him. Obviously, they cannot both be correct.
The second reason I found this fascinating, which you may have caught if you were reading Wagner's comment closely, is that she was responding to something I sent to Steven R Hurst. Hurst wrote the January 4 story, and so I'd contacted him, saying that:
Mr. Hurst,
I refuse to publish his second middle or last name, but I hear that Jamil Hussein is actually Jamil Gulaim [names redacted], and that AP has been using Jamil Hussein as a pseudonym to protect him. Is that correct?
Hurst, instead of ignoring my comment or deleting it, forwarded it upward to Wagner, and I had an official response from AP brass within 1.5 hours.
Now, it very well could be Associated Press policy to forward any and all email inquiries to AP reporters to the Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs, and that those inquiries are quickly and courteously answered within an hour and a half by such senior AP officers, but somehow, I doubt it.
While it is blind speculation, I somehow doubt that a senior staff member would be the one issuing a denial unless there was some substantial reasons to involve a senior staff member. I'd further opine that known the exact real name of their source might just rise to that level of importance.
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Great stuff.
Fix the last link in the post, though... :-)
Posted by: Good Lt at January 11, 2007 12:04 PM (D0TMh)
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*chirp*
*chirp* *chirp*
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 11, 2007 12:08 PM (clafO)
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Someone call an ambulance, Bob's turning blue. I told him not to hold his breath.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at January 11, 2007 12:26 PM (oC8nQ)
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 11, 2007 12:39 PM (n7SaI)
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CY, stellar job.
It seems that there are now LAYERS of issues, and I think it's important to put the AP's feet to the fire on all of them, but to keep them separate as well.
I. SEMINAL ISSUE
a)What happened on the ground? Were four mosques attacked? Were they shelled with rocket propelled grenades and machine gun fire and then burned? What is the visual, physical evidence at Al Qaqaqa, ...if there is NO damage, where is the retraction and correction? Same with Al Muhaimin, Al Mustafa and Nidaa Allah.
b). Were there private homes burned in Hurriya on that date, where is the evidence? What support do they have for that story? If not, where is the retraction?
c)Were women and children murdered in a killing spree on that date? Where is the evidence? If not, where is the retraction?
d)Were six men dragged into the streets from Al Mustafa, doused in kerosene, watched by coalition forces as they writhed on the ground and then summarily executed by a bullet to the head...or did this never occur? If not, where is the retraction?
II. COVERUP
a)When did you come to learn the true identity of JGIX? When you visited him several times in his office, was his name prominently displayed on any badge, memo, placard, nameplate or other physical evidence of his true and actual AUTHENTIC identity.
b)How did you first come to know that JGIX was willing to go on the record, did he approach you or did you approach him?
c)Who initiated the use of the name Hussein for him...did he do it, or did it occur in some other way?
d)You have been using him as a source for years, has he always been a captain? Are you aware of his background, did you do a check on him before using him? With the name Hussein, which is common in Baathist and especially Tikriti enclaves, did you research his connections, if any to the prior regime? What did you do to verify that this was a reliable source before using him?
e)How did you come by the knowledge that one of his middle names was Gholaiem...yet did not come across the IX portions of his name?
f)When you were asked for a retraction on the stories, why did you stand by and insist that Jamil Hussein was an AUTHENTIC first and last name...do you still stand by that position?
III.
ATTRIBUTIONS OF ADMISSIONS
a)After the search for Jamil Hussein, which was prompted by your insistence that Jamil Gholaiem Hussein WAS INDEED his AUTHENTIC name...you then wrote a report that suggested that you were vindicated. Is Jamil Hussein his AUTHENTIC name, or is it not? If not, why did Steven Hurst write that as if it had been admitted?
b)If JGIX is his real name, why did Steven Hurst not detail that in his article about the AP's vindication?
c)Did the MOI or CENTCOM at ANY TIME, come forward with an ADMISSION that "Jamil Hussein" was a police officer at al Khadra? If not, why did Steven Hurst report that as if it had happened?
d)You were aware that some police officers used fake names to protect their identities, yet your reports DETAILED the fact that Jamil Hussein used his AUTHENTIC name, and did not hide his identity. Do you still stand by that report?
If not, why did you report this falsehood?
e)Several people suggested that Jamil Hussein was now in danger, because bloggers had exposed his identity...but if his name is JGIX, you knew this to be false, and you fueled this erroneous accusation by acts of omission and comission. Why? And why did you not retract and correct the record, if this is the case?
f)Your own standards and policies suggest that you do not use composite or false identity sources, did you violate those standards and policies here for more than two years? Did you then coverup this fact, when caught? Did you then intentionally mislead the billions of people who obtain your news accounts, by suggesting that Jamil Hussein was in fact, an AUTHENTIC name of your source?
Was he a properly researched person BEFORE you used him as a source?
Was he given a phony name, so that he couldn't be found by others?
Was he reliable and accurate in his information on issues outside his district?
Did he ever give reliable and accurate information about Sunni misdeeds or crimes?
When did you know what his full, accurate and complete name was?
Did you intentionally mislead your readers about ADMISSIONS by MOI or CENTCOM?
4)
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 11, 2007 01:07 PM (V56h2)
Posted by: Defense Guy at January 11, 2007 01:24 PM (jPCiN)
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Sadly, your great work will go nowhere. The matter has been "settled" as far as the AP is concerned.
Posted by: Robert Crawford at January 11, 2007 01:49 PM (n5eDP)
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If an Iraqi legally changes his name to Jamil Hussein and agrees to, retroactively, assume all of the claims attributed to Hussein, will it count?
Posted by: Cover Me, Porkins at January 11, 2007 01:54 PM (0pS3m)
9
Here's another possibility: Maybe AP is using his real name, but he's using an alias--Jamil Gulaim "XX"--with the Iraqi police. If true, I don't think that quite gets AP off the hook--what are they doing using as a source a guy who gave a phony name to the Police--but it does raise another question to ask. Which name is his real name?
Posted by: Bill Allison at January 11, 2007 02:22 PM (vv93N)
10
The issue may be settled as far as the AP is comcerned.
Of course an additional question might be "If the AP is not following its own journalistic standards, it is a news organization or a non-profit political organization?" and therefore be subject to McCain-Feingold regulations?
Posted by: Tim at January 11, 2007 02:36 PM (3DcUt)
11
Liberals print a pack of lies and are then caught by conservatives. The conclusion that liberals like Glenn Greenwald draw from this? Why, that conservatives are rotten to the core, of course. It only makes sense to them. he-he
Posted by: yo at January 11, 2007 02:38 PM (k86LZ)
12
The blogosphere is beginning to react, but some of that reaction is a bit surprising. People are now confused, as I was afraid might occur, because they are viewing this as a melange of misdeeds, instead of three distinct but vitally different deeds.
Normally clear thinking bloggers have been rendered somnambulant and it somewhat surprisingly produces a stifled yawn as they sleepwalk through the unraveling of a story that should be jolting them. Apparently, the AP's mixture of guilt-tripping, puree'ing of the three distinct issues and stonewalling has a hypnotic effect.
It would be fascinating to watch, if it wasn't so heart wrenching. They claim that "being Jamil" is good enough, YOU are guilty of putting him in danger if you don't accept that, and THAT is the only issue...no other issues exist, you are getting very, very sleepy. Osterize the issues, ostracize the critics. Stonewall. Put them to sleep. Then, plant suggestions in their minds.
"Iraq is a dangerous place." "Of course, we hid his identity" "No, we didn't" "He exists, that's all that matters". "His name is AUTHENTIC" "It's not important if it's authentic"
We need to SEPARATE the issues and deal with them SEPARATELY.
Don't let them second guess you into becoming halting and overhesitant, Bob. Don't feel the pressure of the osterizer. The last thing we need is blogs in a blender.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 11, 2007 02:41 PM (V56h2)
13
Good God, Man! You've got them on the run, now! Don't let up!
Posted by: david at January 11, 2007 02:51 PM (enxra)
14
In other news, the AP has announced that North Carolina prosecutor Michael Nifong has been appointed to investigate the conflicting stories.
Posted by: Orhwe at January 11, 2007 02:53 PM (CHqOD)
15
No jake, this war was won when Iraq elected the government that stands today. Sectarian violence is not the war we're a party to, though it does have a few tentacles in the WOT.
Posted by: Pablo at January 11, 2007 03:09 PM (KX0k4)
Posted by: TomW at January 11, 2007 03:10 PM (5kFGJ)
17
So far, you all have missed one very important question for the AP. Is the level of checking for factual accuracy and compliance with publicly held AP standards the same in Iraq as elsewhere? Should we have the same level of trust regarding AP stories coming out of Iraq as AP stories coming out of Iran, France, or Boise? They cannot say that they are less reliable in Iraq because that invites us to probe as to where else they are using less than their normal levels of diligence yet if they say they are as reliable there as anywhere else, they've gone all in and bet the reputation of their entire product on the small subset that comes out of Iraq.
One other thing to note. You bring down this one and it's like the dog that finally catches up to the car. You bring the AP down, what are you going to do then?
Posted by: TM Lutas at January 11, 2007 03:20 PM (8jMzX)
18
All we need is a pendulating pocket watch...
"which means absolutely nothing..."
Don't look here, don't look here, don't look here.
"we are NOT winning in Iraq."
Where...in ALL of the blogged words and posts on the subject...was this EVER raised by ANYONE...who says that staged news, false sources, phony photographs is unacceptable? Reframe the issues elsewhere. Take a stroll, troll. We ain't buying here.
"The "New Way Forward" is DOA."
We know what you root for...and whose side your on. Yawn. Playbook, page 14...heard it, seen it, threw away the movie ticket.
"Whether or not you ferret out poor or misleading reporting, you are divorced from the reality"
No, ...now read very slowly and you CAN move your lips because you need to...INTENTIONALLY FALSE reporting, lies, coverups, staged events, Green Helmet guy, photoshopped photos...in order to advance a particular point of view....is prima facie evidence of journalistic malpractice. THAT...is reality.
Not sure that leftists are divorced from it...because I don't think that their marriage to truth and integrity was one that was ever consummated.
" - this war was lost when Shinseki's request for 300,000 troops was ignored."
To leftists, this is a moving target. They were for the surge, against the surge. The only thing one can be sure of, if Bush is for it, they are going to say it won't work. They will count the American casualties and ignore the progress. Therefore, their credibility is nil.
"You can parse news stories all ya want, but this war, based on lies"
Clinton, Albright, Berger and Cohen?
"and executed with stunning incompetence is a disaster."
By whose standards. Three weeks to topple Hussein, a democracy in its infancy fighting imported chaos from Iran and Syria...and last I looked, it was still standing. Let's wait past the third inning before the say the game is over, shall we?
"The best military force in the world has been misused in a criminal fashion."
Criminal fashion? Leftists love to call our military criminals, don't they? The only thing we've done is hold back, trying not to inflict excess damage. Are leftists now suggesting a grip it and rip it mentality? LOL. Their tender constituency tends to go soft at the very moment of truth...so, I tend to doubt it.
"so yeah, great work on an issue only you seem to care about. which doesn't change anything."
We care about a lot of issues. This is the source of cognitive dissonance for leftists, who can't imagine actually being able to care about more than their one note song. "Bush bad, media good. Ugh".
Some of us who aren't leftists can actually separate out issues and decide them individually without lemming attachment to leftist dogma.
Here's a soundbite for you. THE TRUTH MATTERS.
You might try it sometime.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 11, 2007 03:33 PM (V56h2)
19
Well, as I have been
going on about, it is not Jamil Hussein and has not been since the very first AP attempt to not answer questions and not hold themselves accountable.
From the Association of Newspaper Editors:
Ethics code: Associated Press Managing Editors
By attacking a member of the public who has put into question AP's reporting and attacking same and asking if the individual was questioning AP's honesty they have turned this into a question of if AP has *any* ethics at all and are dishonest about their reporting.
But that is just my take.
Posted by: ajacksonian at January 11, 2007 03:52 PM (oy1lQ)
20
The AP lied, America voted....now comes buyer's remorse.
The AP, like the NY Times et al, are antiAmerican propagandists in the process of spreading lies and fomenting dissent. They maintain a symbiotic relationship with the Democrats.....truth is never part of their agenda.
Posted by: George Dixon at January 11, 2007 03:52 PM (COB3g)
21
I for one feel way better knowing that this petty argument between petty people has almost been resolved by the only guy in the world who knows the actual truth: the guy who runs this incredibly slanted blog. Way more trustworthy than the AP.
Keep up the great work. Without you, we might never get to the bottom of things that were almost important 2 months ago.
Posted by: DONG at January 11, 2007 03:56 PM (7jsBI)
22
So, your "definitive" evidence, which you don't link to a sample of, is Mr. Costlow and Lt. Dean. Unattributed assertion is the crux of your argument? Wow.
It's all good, though, because I'm a citizen journalist, too. Yep. I have access to Google and everything. You want to see what I found? Of course you do.
The most recent correspondence I could find is this, taken from http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/search/label/Associated%20Press
From: MNC-I PAO Victory Main JOC
[mailto:MNF-IPAOVictoryMainJOC@iraq.centcom.mil]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:14 AM
To: [deleted]
Cc: MNC-I PAO Victory Main JOC
Subject: RE:
RE: Could you confirm that the letter below was sent
by CENTCOM
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Sir:
I have just learned from Mr. Costlow, mentioned below, that Brig. Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf, the official Ministry of Interior spokesmen, will begin his regularly scheduled press conference at noon tomorrow with a statement that Capt. Jamil Hussein, is not a Baghdad police officer or an MOI employee.
Yesterday, coincidently, the Iraqi Ministry of Interior issued a press release warning of spreading propaganda aimed at broadcasters. The text of this statement follows:
A Statement from the Ministry of Interior
After media became free in Iraq and expressed the will of all without the government interfering, unfortunately, some satellite TV channels began misleading public opinion and disclosing chaos for a particular political agenda, by broadcasting propaganda that harms people and tries to shake the trust in security forces.
Such satellite channels are trying to affect Iraqi unity and claim that information was stated by a security source without mentioning the source. Information sources should be well-known and reliable, and to avoid repeating such unfair actions, MOI warns the media and insists on defending the peopleÂ’s security and safety. MOI will take all immediate preventive procedures against media that broadcast propaganda, because such media intend to repress the will of Iraqis in fighting terror and crime.
We would like to mention that such procedures we do not consider as chaining true free media, but it is a legal defense for Iraqi security and the safety of our people.
If you have any additional questions, please let us know.
Vr,
LT Dean
Michael B. Dean
Lieutenant, U.S. Navy
MNC-I Joint Operations Center
Public Affairs Officer
michael.dean@iraq.centcom.mil
MNCI-PAO-VictoryMainJOC@iraq.centcom.mil
Multinational Corps - Iraq
Public Affairs Office
Hey! Didn't the MOI come out just a few days ago with a Mea Culpa? I know, why don't you post the definitive proof from Mr Costlow and Lt. Dean, preferrably with a date that FOLLOWS that of the MOI admitting to the existence of Mr. Hussein, and that'll clear everything up. You can do that, right? Or are you more interested in trying to minimize the depths of your foolishness with a little obfuscation over the use of an alleged pseudonym?
Posted by: Officious Pedant at January 11, 2007 04:06 PM (688sS)
23
And the score is:
AP - One:
Republican knob-polishing propaganda machine: Zero
Sorry, Bubbleheads, it's all over. You can keep humping this story till the cows come home, but nothing will change the (utterly accurate) perception among the literate public -- which, of course, necessarily excludes the grunting followers of Rush, Ann, Michelle, et al. -- that rightwing blogs are a rancid sewer of Swift Boat-style Republican propaganda. The beautiful part is that there will never be another reactionary hatchet job on the free press that won't be very simply addressed by two words: Jamil Hussein.
Posted by: legaleagle at January 11, 2007 04:39 PM (fMQ6j)
24
"The beautiful part is that there will never be another reactionary hatchet job on the free press that won't be very simply addressed by two words: Jamil Hussein."
How true, but LB let them have fun their prez did a belly flop last night and the ripples have shown any sign of let up not to mention Condi getting handed her well you know the senate this morning.
As for Jamil even if they are right no one cares, they have spun and confabulated so much that no one believes them any more.
Posted by: moonkat at January 11, 2007 04:59 PM (6yFiL)
25
Who cares? Iraq is locked in a bloody civil war, American soldiers are dying, the president doesn't have a clue about what to do, and you keep foghorning about whether Jamil Hussein does or does not exist. This is ridiculous.
Posted by: Arthur Arkwright at January 11, 2007 04:59 PM (q8CRj)
26
So, was any of the actual story ever verified? Did photos of these burned mosques ever go out on the wires? Where were the bodies taken? Usually the press would be wallowing in these details. No details? Sounds like no story. Only the coverup remains. It would be nice if AP could actually come up with somebody, no matter what his name is, who could be interviewed by someone other than an AP flack about those other 20-odd stories AP has flogged in the past with him as the major witness. Even criminals are given the chance to cross-examine witnesses; why shouldn't anyone accused of malfeasance or incompetence be able to do the same?
It still looks like the guy never existed and AP made the whole stinking pile up. They've consistently missed any chances to either put up or shut up. It's the Dan Rather effect all over again.
Posted by: tom swift at January 11, 2007 05:32 PM (nlSLe)
27
"I await Kathleen Carroll's response."
LOL. Ya, I'm sure she's gonna get right on that there ConYank.
Posted by: THeDRiFTeR at January 11, 2007 06:54 PM (Ozz4x)
28
I for one feel way better knowing that this petty argument between petty people
You miss the point entirely.
If AP's actions give you a "warm fuzzy" and you feel that their credibility is intact, then just go on your way and forget about any of this and keep your blinders on.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 11, 2007 06:58 PM (clafO)
29
I'm impressed by how lucidly you've traced the history of this media mess. I wonder when the AP will figure out that, if you're in a hole, you should stop digging, and that when you've made a gross ethical error, you should, maybe, just maybe, engage in some self-examination, apologize, and change your behavior.
Posted by: Bookworm at January 11, 2007 07:37 PM (+jmyR)
30
legaleagle;
Two Words: Pham Xuan
RichatUF
Posted by: RichatUF at January 11, 2007 10:35 PM (SgEzK)
31
I suppose literacy isn’t required to graduate law school. The AP claimed their source is “Jamil Hussein” a captain in the Iraqi Police. The “source” discovered at the Kharda station is “Jamil Gulaim …” however this individual denies he is an AP source. AP is dissembling, BG Khalaf is dissembling, and in the end the front page “Burning Six” story remains unresolved. Interesting you would score this as a victory for the AP; it looks to me like a great deal of spinning by the AP.
Yes-the “Swift Boat” slur…when was the greatest hero of the Vietnam War, Sen. John Kerry, supposed to sign his SF-180 and release his military records? His Silver Star with V Device-I’d like to see those orders.
Its interesting that you call it a “free press” when it has been shown over and over again Western media is overwhelmingly compelled by politics, relationships, money, access-ah, but, yes, you reject statements from illiterates. How could someone like me (who has not been to law school and thinks the Jamil Hussein story is important) even tie my shoes? Maybe we could send “Jamil Hussein” to go find the good senator’s military jacket-there are a few mosques in St. Lewis, it would be almost like paradise.
RichatUF
Posted by: RichatUF at January 11, 2007 11:07 PM (SgEzK)
32
It is, after all, just a pseudonym and not a REAL name! You're outraged, right?
She exists. I've seen the video.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 12, 2007 02:37 AM (clafO)
33
OT: Tic...Toc....Tic....Toc....almost 32 hours of the first 100 gone and still no plan for Iraq from the Dems. Never had one, although that was the platform they ran on to get elected. Never will have one...because defeat means defeat in the next election. How sad that such back-seat pontificators like Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Kennedy, Dean, etc., can't find a solution. Tic....toc....tic....toc.
Posted by: Specter at January 12, 2007 07:38 AM (ybfXM)
34
Re legal'B'eagle...
I have yet to meet a lawyer who would not posture pro or con depending on which had the deepest pocket. They are all more or less Nifongs.....
Posted by: George Dixon at January 12, 2007 09:46 AM (COB3g)
35
Confederate Yankee, why are you deleting my comment?
Anyways, since you are, I respond to this post on my blog here:
http://murderinging.wordpress.com/2007/01/12/confederate-yankee-still-desperately-holding-onto-jamil-hussein-conspiracy/
Posted by: db at January 12, 2007 10:48 AM (sWGYX)
36
"So, was any of the actual story ever verified?"
A unit of the Iraqi 6th Army responded to a report of an
ongoing attack in the area claimed at the time claimed. They captured no one, saw no burning homes, no Burning Sunnis, no slaughter in the mosques and streets. They found
one mosque that had been hit with a Molotov at the entrance, causing slight damage. They summoned a fire brigade, which put out the remnants of the Molotov fire. Lapsed time from initial report to fire-out, about ten minutes.
After the story appeared on the AP wire, additional patrols were sent to the area to search out the extent of the damage and ascertain what happened and who did it. They found one slightly burned mosque entrance, no burned homes, no Burned Sunni marks on the streets, no bodies, no associated funerals, and no witnesses supporting the claims, etc.
That's it. The current sum total extent of all independent and verifiable substantiation of the purported incident.
Posted by: Tully at January 12, 2007 11:27 AM (kEQ90)
37
Comment? It looks like a link to your blog.
Newsflash - nobody cares what you think.
Posted by: Good Lt at January 12, 2007 11:29 AM (D0TMh)
38
My first one didn't even link to my blog. It was just a comment. But he deleted it, so I figured I'd just add a quick link to my blog where I respond to this ridiculous post instead of bothering to type something he'll delete again as soon as he notices.
Posted by: db at January 12, 2007 12:22 PM (sWGYX)
39
Actually, db, if you were brave enough to leave a valid email address (chickenposter) and had bother to read my comment policy, you'd see I don't allow profanity, which was the reason your post was deleted.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 12, 2007 12:36 PM (g5Nba)
40
My non-profane to db on his blog:
So your brilliant criticism is hinged upon the fact Michelle Malkin didn't get her name changed upon getting married?
It is against AP's own code of ethics to use a pseudonym in the manner they did, and other profesional journalists–Jon Ham of the John Locke Foundation and a former managing editor of the Durham Herald-Sun, Larisa Alexandrovna of the liberal-leaning Raw Story, Jay Rosen of New York University’s PressThink, and Committee of Concerned Journalists Founding Chairman, Bill Kovach, and Peter Y. Sussman who is on the Ethics Committee of the Society of Professional Journalists–all agree.
But that's okayÂ… you still have your "truthiness."
It's better than truth, or ethics.
Right?
I now return this comment thread to those for which it was intended...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 12, 2007 12:47 PM (g5Nba)
41
Did I use profanity? I don't recall. If I did, my apologies. So my response (also posted on my blog):
Ethics aren’t rock solid rules. Even if the AP does state as a solid rule not to use a pseudonym without recognizing it, ethical codes adapt to the situation. You don’t know why Jamil Hussein’s full name wasn’t used — you’re blindly grasping for anything to hold onto as a basis for attacking journalistic integrity. A pesudonym for Jamil Hussein isn’t necessarily “truthiness.” The attack is silly.
You are also omitting a key part of what all those experts say that you cite. To quote Sussman: “Barring some overwhelmingly important mitigating factor…”
My point is, you have no absolutely no idea what the particular circumstances are. You have no clue whatsoever as to any mitigating factors. No idea. Your ideological biases are blinding you and causing you to jump to conclusions. It’s the same biases that lead to so many of your ideological peers to claim that Jamil Hussein inarguably does not exist. You’re making the same mistake in your eagerness to play “gotcha.” Further, you’re playing “gotcha” over something so banal, your attack is laughable.
Posted by: db at January 12, 2007 01:13 PM (sWGYX)
42
Yep,
you got me.
My "mistake" is banal, so laughable, that the Director of Media Relations and Public Affairs for AP contacted me, a mere blogger,
personally just as soon as she could to issue a "we stand by our story" denial.
Keep whistling, junior.
You'll get by that graveyard eventually...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 12, 2007 01:38 PM (g5Nba)
43
Should we expect ANY news service attempting to report from Iraq to be more accurate than say the Weather Service ?
The American People no longer believe in this Iraq endeavor.
Polls show a pretty consistent 70% against sending any more troops. As for the 30%, well that should represent 100 million but I think that number is soft. If 100 million Americans REALLY believed in the WOT or the war in Iraq the recruiting officers would have lines out the door trying to sign up.
Posted by: John Ryan at January 12, 2007 01:44 PM (TcoRJ)
44
OT slightly: Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc...46 Hours gone, Republicans steal the earmark show in the Senate, Nancy fails to rein in corruption under her reign, Silvestre still doesn't know what a Sunni is, and still NO PLAN FOR IRAQ. That 100 hours is going by pretty quickly. Great Leaders they are. In the words of the DNC Chairman: AIIIIIIIYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEE
Posted by: Specter at January 12, 2007 02:09 PM (ybfXM)
45
One simple question that only requires the simplest of proofs. If Jamil Hussein is real, produce him.
Can't do it, can you?
Posted by: surferdoc at January 12, 2007 11:27 PM (V77Bt)
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| Add Comment
January 09, 2007
Did the AP Lie About Jamil Hussein Being Found?
Or is this just being lost in translation? Curt, at Flopping Aces with the apparent
bombshell:
Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf never acknowledged that there was a Capt. Jamil Hussein assigned to the Khadra station, he confirmed to the AP that there was a Capt. Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim assigned there. Apparently he is the source for the AP even though he still, to this day (according to Bill Costlow), denies being the source.
So what do we have so far?
That the AP has lied again in their response. The AP specifically stated that Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf acknowledged Jamil Hussein exists when he did no such thing. He acknowledged a completely different name the AP gave him but not a Jamil Hussein.
This, of course, means that Michelle Malkin nailed it on December 20. Anyone got a good crow recipe for Eric Boehlert?
I'll have more on this as I process the implications...
Update: Before I get to worked up about this one way or the other, I'm going to want some verification that Costlow is correct. This is something that Curt is asking Costlow to triple-check, and I am also asking MNF-I PAO to verifiy as well. Until then, let's agree to take this with a grain of salt.
Why?
Because if Brig. General Abdul-Karim Khalaf did not tell the Associated Press that there was a Captain Jamil Hussein at the Khadra police station, then we have what many would interpret as an attempt by the Associated Press to deceive it's readership, which numbers roughly one billion people on this planet every day. That would be big news, and potentially indicate there are yet bigger fish to fry.
Likewise, it would be big (though not nearly as big) news if Brig. General Abdul-Karim Khalaf told both AP and Bill Costlow what they wanted to hear. Such a revelation would destroy his credibility as one of the Iraqi Interior Ministry's main spokesmen.
More as this develops...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:28 PM
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| Add Comment
Post contains 342 words, total size 2 kb.
1
If this pans out, is this going to end up like the "16 words" incident? Where the White House apologises for claiming that Saddam Hussein sought to get uranium yellowcake from Niger, even though the facts ultimately end up supporting that statement?
Again, if this pans out, there's going to be a lot of egg on the faces of AP, Eric Boehlert, Daily Kos, Eschaton, etc.
Later,
Later,
Posted by: Cicero at January 09, 2007 03:37 PM (S35wq)
2
If this pans out, the left will ignore it, just like they ignored the fact that the British stood by their niger/yellowcake info. The left lives in their own reality. Don't trouble them with facts, please.
Posted by: Lizza at January 09, 2007 04:36 PM (hDwif)
3
01/04/07
No. Nope. Uh-uh. Not this time. This is either up or down. Light or dark. There are no shades of gray to hide behind.
Either Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf admitted that Jamil Hussein was a police Captain assigned to the Khadra police station...or he did not.
There is no room for interpretation that passes even the faintest smell test. Let's examine what Steven Hurst said in his report:
Iraq threatens arrest of police captain who spoke to media
(Iraq threatens arrest of police captain, is this true, or is this not true?)
"The Interior Ministry acknowledged Thursday that an Iraqi police officer whose existence had been denied by the Iraqis and the U.S. military is in fact an active member of the force, and said he now faces arrest for speaking to the media."
In this paragraph, are the following:
1)Interior Ministry acknowledged
2)That an Iraqi police officer whose existence had been denied
3)Is IN FACT an active member of the force
4)And he now faces arrest.
Each of those items is either true, or untrue. EACH. True. Or untrue.
"Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf, who had previously denied there was any such police employee as Capt. Jamil Hussein, said in an interview that Hussein is an officer assigned to the Khadra police station, as had been reported by The Associated Press."
1)Abdul-Karim Khalaf, who denied that there was a CAPT. JAMIL HUSSEIN...said that HUSSEIN is an officer assigned to the Khadra police station.
Either Khalaf said that HUSSEIN was a police officer in Al-Khadra...or he didn't.
"The captain, whose full name is Jamil Gholaiem Hussein"
1)His name is either Jamil Gholaiem Hussein, or it is not.
"Khalaf offered no explanation Thursday for why the ministry had initially denied Hussein's existence, other than to state that its first search of records failed to turn up his full name. He also declined to say how long the ministry had known of its error and why it had made no attempt in the past six weeks to correct the public record."
1)Khalaf offered no explanation for why he denied Hussein's existence INITIALLY...
This is not merely an implication that he is not denying his existence now, it subsumes in its precise language that he was asked and was unable to answer why he denied this existence.
And the AP, apparently thinks that waiting six weeks to correct an improper record is not acceptable. Perhaps they can explain why they only refer to ONE mosque now...and INITIALLY they spoke of FOUR mosques...without explanation.
"Khalaf told the AP that an arrest warrant had been issued for the captain for having contacts with the media in violation of the ministry's regulations."
1)Either Khalaf told them an arrest warrant had been issued, or he didn't.
How hard is it to find a guy who appears every day at his desk in Al Khadra, as a captain of the police force? I wouldn't think this would be that difficult to serve. Has he been served?
"Hussein told the AP on Wednesday that he learned the arrest warrant would be issued when he returned to work on Thursday after the Eid al-Adha holiday. His phone was turned off Thursday and he could not be reached for further comment."
1)How convenient. Is he back at his desk now or not? Was the warrant served, or not? Where is the followup? On Friday, at a minimum...wouldn't one realistically expect a followup story by AP? Where is it?
"Some officers who speak with reporters withhold their names or attempt to disguise their names using different variants of one or two middle names or last names for reasons of security. Hussein, however, spoke for the record, using his authentic first and last name, on numerous occasions."
1)He used his AUTHENTIC FIRST AND LAST NAME...on numerous occasions....or he didn't. This is not open for debate, shading, coloring, reframing, or clouding over. Jamil Hussein is the name, authentic is the game.
"Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said Thursday that the military had asked the Interior Ministry on Nov. 26 if it had a policeman by the name of Jamil Hussein. Two days later, U.S. Navy Lt. Michael B. Dean, a public affairs officer with the U.S. Navy Multi-National Corps-Iraq Joint Operations Center, sent an e-mail to AP in Baghdad saying that the military had checked with the Iraqi Interior Ministry and was told that no one by the name of Jamil Hussein worked for the ministry or was a Baghdad police officer."
1)Does the AP now suggest that the name Jamil Hussein should have appeared on the rosters? This is a yes or no question... not open to debate or interpretation.
"Dean also demanded that the mosque attack story be retracted."
1)Did he ask that the "mosque story" or the MOSQUES (PLURAL) STORY be retracted. This is an important distinction. The "mosques story" is absolutely in need of retraction.
"At the time Khalaf said the ministry had no one on its staff by the name of Jamil Hussein."
1)Does he say something differently now? If so, what...PRECISELY.
"Maybe he wore an MOI (Ministry of Interior) uniform and gave a different name to the reporter for money," Khalaf said then. The AP has not paid Jamil Hussein and does not pay any news sources for information for its stories.
1)Does the AP use anyone else to pay on their behalf? Does it use middlemen for any purposes. Does it grant any perk or benefit for supplying a "sourcing" for numerous stories? Why does it use the same person over and over...outside his district? How does he say he comes to "know" the facts outside his district that he is "sourcing".
"On Thursday, Khalaf told AP that the ministry at first had searched its files for Jamil Hussein and found no one. He said a later search turned up Capt. Jamil Gholaiem Hussein, assigned to the Khadra police station."
1)Did he say he found Jamil Gholaiem Hussein, or did he say that he found Jamil Gholaim Ghdaab...or some other person?
"But the AP had already identified the captain by all three names in a story on Nov. 28 -- two days before the Interior Ministry publicly denied his existence on the police rolls."
1)Which three names? Where in the initial report or any of the prior 60...was the name Ghdaab? Or Gholaiem?
"Khalaf did not say whether the U.S. military had ever been told that Hussein in fact exists. Garver, the U.S. military spokesman, said Thursday that he was not aware that the military had ever been told."
1)Was he asked that question? Does HUSSEIN, in fact, exist? Or does someone else "exist" with a different name.
"Khalaf said Thursday that with the arrest of Hussein for breaking police regulations against talking to reporters, the AP would be called to identify him in a lineup as the source of its story."
1)Was "Hussein" arrested on Thursday. Was the AP called to identify him? What happened? Where's the followup?
"Should the AP decline to assist in the identification, Khalaf said, the case against Hussein would be dropped. He also said there were no plans to pursue action against the AP should it decline."
1)Pretty neat and pat. AP declines to identify him and it all goes away. Did Khalaf really say this? Did AP decline?
These are binary questions. On or off. Yes or no. 1 0r 2. The answers are out there...but apparently they are escaping the grasp of the AP.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 09, 2007 05:32 PM (V56h2)
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 09, 2007 06:26 PM (n7SaI)
5
Where's DA? He should tell us how wrong we are....
Posted by: Specter at January 09, 2007 09:35 PM (ybfXM)
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cfbleachers,
I ain't trying to be a putz, but with Binary Answers it'd be
0 or 1, not
1 or 2.
Holy crap, I just realized how much of a geek I am.
I'll go back to my parent's basement now.
Posted by: phin at January 10, 2007 09:23 AM (s9O5P)
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phin
LOL. Thanks, ... a V8 moment. (slaps forehead) I knew that! Very funny, though.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 10, 2007 03:02 PM (V56h2)
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"habeas corpus". Produce the body - living or dead.
AP is bluffing.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 10, 2007 03:13 PM (clafO)
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Wow, you guys just can't let it go, can you? It's over folks, the AP has been vindicated, and you guys are sounding more loony every day. I am not suggesting that you stop, it is truly hilarious to watch you melt down this way, and I have this blog bookmarked for that very reason. But maybe you should find some more productive pursuits.
And as it turns out, Bush agreed with the rest of the world and the reporting of the AP tonight when he said that he and the American people find the situation in Iraq "unacceptble." At least here he agreed in part with the ISG, which described the situation in Iraq as "grave and deteriorating." We all know that in your delusional state you believe things are going great in Iraq and therefore the AP must have lied. But if both
Bush and the ISG say differently, and if Bush decides he needs more troops to salvage the current disaster, what more will it take to inject some sanity into this blog?
Posted by: antibush at January 10, 2007 11:39 PM (THcR9)
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If a story is fake but accuarate, admitting that the accurate part is right, does not prove the fake part is true.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at January 11, 2007 10:46 AM (oC8nQ)
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It's over folks, the AP has been vindicated
Where's the body?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 11, 2007 12:11 PM (clafO)
12
Where's the body?
That would be
here.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 11, 2007 12:42 PM (g5Nba)
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January 08, 2007
What Happened to the AP's Hurriyah Mosque Attack Video?
Kathleen Carroll continues to attack those questioning her news organizationÂ’s ability to turn four burned mosques and several homes into one burned mosque, and their ability to turn 24 dead men, women and children into six, while
still not acknowledging that they cited an al Qaeda-linked source to get the number up to 24 in the first place. The Associated Press and Executive Editor Carroll are still claiming to stand behind their reporting when the "facts" of the story have been rewritten in the neighborhood of 75-percent...
Oh wait, where was I going with this?
...Ah yes, I remember now.
Kathleen Carroll says she still stands behind the AP's reporting from Hurriyah.
There are reportedly just four mosques in the Hurriyah neighborhood, pulled from this 2003 map:
That would be the four mosque locations noted in the bottom left quadrant. Is it accurate? Perhaps, perhaps not. It is after all, three years old, and apparently generated by a U.S.-government agency known as the National Imagery and Mapping Agency . How accurately they map specific buildings in a foreign capital seems to be open for debate.
The AP claims four mosques in Hurriyah were destroyed:
The militiamen attacked and burned the Ahbab al-Mustafa, Nidaa Allah, al-Muhaimin and al-Qaqaqa mosques in the rampage that did not end until American forces arrived, Hussein said.
The gunmen attack with rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and automatic rifles. Residents said militiamen prevented them from entering burned structures to take away the bodies of victims.
Now, let's leave aside the inconvenient fact that apparently none of these mosques seem to have actually been destroyed, that American units no longer patrol this neighborhood, and that the Associated Press has decided to write three of the mosques out of their narrative by November 30, less than a week after the news organization's previous claims:
AP journalists have repeatedly been to the Hurriyah neighborhood, a small Sunni enclave within a larger Shiia area of Baghdad. Residents there have told us in detail about the attack on the mosque and that six people were burned alive during it.
Let's ignore that AP dropped the number of attacked mosques from four to one, and that the 18 dead people claimed by their pro-al Qaeda source have suddenly vanished from their reporting without correction or retraction. Let's instead concentration on this interesting detail from AP reporter Steven R Hurst (scroll down):
The attack on the small Mustafa Sunni mosque began as worshippers were finishing Friday midday prayers. About 50 unarmed men, many in black uniforms and some wearing ski masks, walked through the district chanting "We are the Mahdi Army, shield of the Shiites."
Fifteen minutes later, two white pickup trucks, a black BMW and a black Opel drove up to the marchers. The suspected Shiite militiamen took automatic rifles and rocket-propelled grenade launchers from the vehicles. They then blasted open the front of the mosque, dragged six worshippers outside, doused them with kerosene and set them on fire.
This account of one of the most horrific alleged attacks of Iraq's sectarian war emerged Tuesday in separate interviews with residents of a Sunni enclave in the largely Shiite Hurriyah district of Baghdad.
The Associated Press first reported on Friday's incident that evening, based on the account of police Capt. Jamil Hussein and Imad al-Hashimi, a Sunni elder in Hurriyah, who told Al-Arabiya television he saw people who were soaked in kerosene, then set afire, burning before his eyes.
AP Television News also took video of the Mustafa mosque showing a large portion of the front wall around the door blown away. The interior of the mosque appeared to be badly damaged and there were signs of fire.
Somehow, I'd missed this where the AP specified that it was the Mustafa (Ahbab al-Mustafa) mosque where these men were abducted from and burned, possibly because in later AP stories and releases the exact name of the mosque was dropped. AP also says that AP television took video of the Mustafa mosque after it was attacked...
So why haven't we seen the AP video of the attacked mosque yet?
Why has that part of the Associated Press narrative disappeared? It seems odd that after being bombarded by critics for weeks because they haven't produced any evidence to back up their claims that they would pass on the chance to show the very evidence that they once seemed to think would bolster their claim.
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Think they're saving it up like the Jamil Identity, to make critics look bad? Sounds like a job for Michelle Malkin or somebody honest, to go over and see and interview, to put up some photos or videos and not wait for AP to pull out their thumbs. No?
Posted by: nichevo at January 08, 2007 02:54 PM (Xq6yl)
2
Could it be that their video is actually from the known rocket attack in February, or from the time a couple o' years back when the parishoners themselves had a little "Oops!" while practicing home demolitions manufacture?
Posted by: Tully at January 08, 2007 04:09 PM (kEQ90)
3
So NOW the story is....the small Mustafa mosque is the ONLY one that was attacked at all.
What happened to the 19 people, including women and children who were murdered according to Jamil, Jamail, Jamazel?
What happened to the homes that were burned? What happened to the other three mosques?
This Mustafa Mosque had the "door blown open" and was burned to the ground, right? 50 men who were unarmed and marching through the city claiming allegiance to Sadr for a quarter hour... did this and nobody fired a shot at them? They didn't get off a single shot? Really?
They marched and shouted and chanted for 15 minutes dressed in black and with ski masks, (were they expecting the annual Kennedy Downhill Slalom to break out???)...and nobody in this area that requires a "fortress" for its police station...got off a shot at them? Really?
And then they blew up a mosque, dragged out six imams, went rampaging through the district murdering women and children and burning homes...and nobody got off a shot at them?
A videotape? A camera shot? Not one?
And then they sat there...and doused these six guys with kerosene...watched while they rolled around and burned in agony...then shot each one of them with a bullet to the head.
And nobody got off a shot at these guys? Really?
And they blew up and burned down the other three mosques (simultaneously?)...um...or not.
Is this really the story they are sticking with now? Because, (if they believed their own story)...wouldn't THEY be the ones to point out the hole in the mosque? The burned homes. If they believed their own story, wouldn't THEY be the ones to show the burn marks in the street (you can't burn a person alive without getting the heat to a level that would scorch the ground).
At least if we know what their story is and if THIS one is finally the one they are sticking with...we can begin to try to unravel the truth out of this mess.
So, let's get this straight now. They now are telling the story that ONE mosque (ONLY Al Mustafa) was blown up and burned to the ground.
And ONLY six people were immolated or killed. They are no longer STICKING BY THE STORY that 19 people INCLUDING WOMEN AND CHILDREN were murdered, and that three other mosques were blown up and burned to the ground...is that now the story?
If they believe their own story, wouldn't they be interested in following those leads? Which story are they standing by?
If I understand it correctly, Al Mustafa Mosque was blown up, set on fire...six imams were dragged out of there and doused with kerosene and set on fire.
Well, ok. If THAT'S now the story...then let's get on with it. Maybe some time later they can explain if they believe their own first story, their own second story, their own third story...or now this story. I mean...pick one...any one...and let's deal with that one.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 08, 2007 04:40 PM (V56h2)
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So why haven't we seen the AP video of the attacked mosque yet?
Jamil Hussein made off with it when it vanished.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 08, 2007 06:58 PM (clafO)
5
This is what I wrote to one blogger who criticized bloggers for questioning Jamil Hussein's existence claiming they made the AP look good:
"With all due respect, I disagree with you. The questioning of Jamil Hussein's existense has helped to locate him. Maybe now he'll be questioned about his report, and believe me, he'll have some tough questions to answer. None of that would have happened if bloggers had not sought out Hussein. Besides - the ongoing criticizm of this story keeps it out in the open even longer and the longer this story goes on, the more the AP's report will be proven to be off the mark. Maybe some of it will be proven to be true, but a lot of it won't.
When bloggers saw how the stories were changing from day to day they rightly questioned the reliability of the report and the source. Someone needs to keep the mainstream press in check. The bloggers are doing it. The time when the media could slant the news without proving their stories, is up, thanks to bloggers. Now the media's got to be more careful about their reporting, which is good. The blogger's job is not to prove the media's is lying, but to show the inconsistencies in their stories and make them own up to their reporting. Kudos to the bloggers and hopefully they'll make the media own to every story they report. Jamil Huseein's report is just another blemish in the mainstream media's integrity, and it will be proven so in the coming weeks. The discovery of Jamil Hussein will prove to be beneficial to the blogging community, not harmful. Once again, there's nothing wrong with questioning the existence of a source if the story that source is giving has lots of holes in it and especially when this source (Hussein) has been in AP reports and no one elses and when this source knows too much about things that supposedly happened far far away from him."
Confederate Yankee, keep up the good work, question their reporting and their sources. Show the inconsitencies in their reports.Please don't shy away from it - your work is very valuable. Question them, question them and question them. The days of the media ruling public opinion with misinformation will hopely come to an end, if you will continue to volunteer your time to do the hard hard work.
Posted by: JP at January 08, 2007 07:34 PM (aTZaE)
6
NIMA's mapping is accurate.
What they release for general use, however, may be edited or degraded. ;-)
Posted by: Molon Labe at January 08, 2007 08:58 PM (Qincd)
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It must be another one of those "False But Accurate" deals.
Posted by: brando at January 08, 2007 11:09 PM (uZ35s)
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 09, 2007 01:36 AM (n7SaI)
9
AP has only plugged up only the smallest of holes in their story, while other gaping holes still exist. Proving that Jamil Hussein, or whatever he calls himellf, exists still proves NOTHING, especially since Jamil Hussein does not even acknowledge that he is the source of the story.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at January 09, 2007 09:09 AM (oC8nQ)
10
'Course of Saddam was still in charge, Jamil would be.....dead. After hours and hours of torture and mutilation in Abu Ghraib, and a signed confession....Jamil would be DEAD. But, my friends on the left think that would be OK.
Posted by: Specter at January 09, 2007 02:41 PM (ybfXM)
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Monday Morning Jamil Roundup
While I've been busy over the weekend doing family stuff, other bloggers have kept up the pressure on the continuing on-going scandal called Jamilgate, where the Associated Press claimed that 24 people were burned to death and four mosques were rocketed, machine gunned, burned and blown up along with several homes burned in a Baghdad neighborhood on Friday, November 24, 2006.
The AP has since attempted to rewrite their story after the fact, now only maintaining that six people were immolated and that only one mosque was attacked. Though the claims made in the story have been changed by roughly 75-percent, one of their primary sources is facing arrest, another retracted his claim, and another key source was a group aligned with al Qaeda, the AP's executive editor Kathleen Carroll continues to prove she is the Mike Nifong of professional journalism.
Carroll says she stand by AP's reporting on this story, even as her reporters have dramatically changed it over time (See Protein Wisdom for an excellent summary of the events so far).
Among the bloggers that continued to cover the AP over the weekend have been Dafydd ab Hugh and Sachi X of Big Lizards. On Friday, Sachi released a three-part critique on the main defenders of the Associated Press, Eric Boehlert of Media Matters. Start with Media Matters In the Meme Streets of Baghdad - 1 and read all three parts. Sachi's partner in crime, Dafydd released So Where IS Lieutenant Kije? yesterday afternoon, wondering what, if anything, Jamil Hussein might have in common with an eight-foot tall invisible rabbit named Harvey (I'd point out as an aside that Harvey was at least "seen" by a decorated U.S. Air Force combat pilot who retired as Brigadier General James Stewart. To the best of my knowledge, that is one more U.S. military officer than has seen Jamil Hussein).
On Saturday, Kurt at Flopping Aces revealed an email exchange he had with Bill Costlow, CPATT (Civilian Police Assistance Training Team) representative on his way back to Baghdad to work with the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior. Costlow points out something I've heard, but haven't previously commented on: Jamil Hussein may have been difficult to find because that is not the name he is known under as an Iraqi police officer. While the AP credits him as Jamil Hussein, the Iraqi Police Captain calls himself Jamil Gulaim, and when an officer by the name of "Captain Jamil Ghlaim" was questioned several weeks ago, he denied being AP's source.
If Jamil Ghlaim Hussein is the AP's source, and is the same man denying being the AP's source, what kind of position does it place the Associated Press in, on not just the immolation stories, but the dozens of other stories sourced to Jamil Hussein since April of 2006?
Of course, it isn't just bloggers that are concerned over the implications of Jamilgate. Mark Tapscott of the Washington Examiner hits the same point I've been repeating that liberal bloggers and liberal blog commenters either don't seem able to grasp, or would prefer to overlook:
But even if it is stipulated that AP has been right all along, it has been using a source who is an Iraqi Police Captain by name of Jamil Hussein, that isn't proof that he is a credible source.
Don't forget that al Qaeda and the insurgents have made clear that they consider learning to manipulate the western press is a major front in their war of Jihad.
And there is abundant evidence that there are significant numbers of insurgent sympathizers among the Iraqi Police forces. Neither is it beyond the realm of possibility that Hussein is in fact a double agent.
I talked earlier today with an old journalism friend who has covered just about every significant foreign military action involving U.S. troops in the past 15 years, including both the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and Iraq War of 2003.
My friend explained the difficulties faced by AP and other Western journalists in the theater. Because it is so dangerous outside the Green Zone in Baghdad, few Western journalists venture out beyond its confines.
So they have to rely upon local stringers drawn from among the Iraqi population. Because being a news stringer can put dollars in the pocket, there is a tremendous competition among these folks to bring the Western journalists the best stories.
That competition is, of course, an open invitation to exaggeration, rumor and outright lies being peddled as legitimate news. It is also an opening for a resourceful insurgent or al Qaeda operative to become a source for Western journalists.
Because of AP's ill-advised "trust me" attitude when bloggers first began questioning the credibility of Hussein as a source, the emphasis was on proving his existence.
Proving that he exists is not the same thing as establishing his credibility as a source, especially since there is so much contrary evidence regarding the six Sunnis being burned alive.
Going back to the Duke Lacrosse rape case that I used as an analogy last week, merely proving that the accuser exists does not prove the story, especially when the stories keep changing, the credibility of the witnesses is in jeopardy, and there is little or no physical evidence supporting any of the ever-changing allegations made.
Of course, Tapscott is far from being the only professional journalist concerned over the AP's apparent shifting stories and dubious claims. Jules Crittenden of the Boston Herald posts at his blog Forward Movement:
The AP publishes hundreds of stories a day. Why should anyone give a damn if any of them are accurate? Grubby impertinent news reader people. Just because the AP's claim of four mosques torched and six people burned to death as troops looked on was outlandish, remains unsubstantiated and government officials said the source didn't exist.
E&P scribbler Joe Strupp and Carroll enthusiastically repeat several times that "Hussein" has been threatened with arrest for talking to reporters. They fail to mention that's for unauthorized blather about incidents that may not have actually occurred and could represent insurgent propaganda. If in fact Jamil exists, of course. The Ministry of Interior's record on that is spotty and the AP seems to have lost track of him just as he's been "found."
Crittenden and Tapscott hit at the heart of the matter: the stringer-based reporting methodology and apparently weak editorial checks-and-balances indicate that the world's largest news organization highly susceptible to insurgent propaganda efforts. After all, one of the sources AP used in its Jamilgate coverage is a Sunni group affiliated with al Qaeda that the Associated Press ran without any apparent concerns as to their credibility. If the Associated Press will run claims made by known terrorist supporters, how susceptible do you think they are to running claims by those who first establish an air of legitimacy?
Jamil Hussein is one source cited by name in more than five dozen AP stories, and used anonymously an unknown number of times as an AP source since 2004 to provide information on stories well outside of his jurisdiction as a police officer. You wouldn't cite a Brooklyn cop on stories occurring in Queens or Harlem, any yet, that is precisely what the Associated Press did, time after time after time as the used Jamil Hussein. I checked 40 of the 61 AP stories where Jamil Hussein was cited as a source, and have been able to convincingly verify just one, the death of a Defense Ministry Public Affairs employee, and that only through research done by a native Arab-speaker in the Arab press.
The Associated Press may have very good reasons for failing to account for the varied storylines they've presented, for attempting to shift the blame from themselves to the Iraqi Government, the American military, and various bloggers, but the fact remains that they've had more than six weeks to provide these very good reasons, and the only defense they 've offered so far is to repeatedly attack their critics, and claim they stand behind their reporting, even as they feverishly rewrite it.
Slowly, but surely, the APÂ’s story and credibility are falling apart.
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For any thinking person, CY...the above represents the ONLY solid analysis of the situation. Again, with one proviso...that all this emphasis on the AP being "used" by folks with an agenda. If this was the first or only time, when photgraphs were PROVEN to be photoshopped, when it was PROVEN that a guy in a Green Helmet was STAGING events...then, we might consider the AP to have been "duped" once again.
But it simply doesn't pass the smell test. When confronted with facts that were in direct contradiction to the story that was originally published, they failed to come clean. That's a coverup. That's conspiracy after the fact.
Which would lead any decent investigator to begin to look at whether the conspiracy was confined to after the fact, or whether it arose before the fact.
If you used Jamil, Jamail, Ghulaim, Guliam...whatever...61 times, it would seem to me that you would have stumbled upon whether his ability to KNOW would have crossed your mind. I mean, these are INVESTIGATIVE reporters...and it never crosses their minds to ask how in the world this guy, who is located in a "fortress like, sealed off world of a police station" would KNOW events happening outside of his district.
Isn't that a reasonable question to explore? To even ask?
Nope. It's not relevant, because it's of little or no import. It doesn't matter if he "knows" anything. In fact, the reporters can simply fill him in on the story and have him "confirm" it back to them, to give it that "sourciness" flavor.
After a couple dozen times of getting away with this, he is emboldened to "sprinkle" in some facts of his own. Why not, nobody's paying any attention anyway, right?
THEY know, that he doesn't know anything, because they are feeding him the story to begin with. Is such a scenario possible?
We can't possibly know, because the AP and their apologists won't let us into the inner circle of silence.
1)We ask about the details of this story being so utterly wrong,
they respond by saying that we were joking about his very existence, therefore, we don't deserve to know about the details of the story being right or wrong.
2)We ask how they came to use him for that "hot sourcy" flavor OUTSIDE his district using his name and the very police station he worked in
they respond that we have put his life in mortal danger and to ask any more questions about the basis of ALL his stories, is akin to issuing him a death warrant
3)We ask for verification of the facts detailed in his "hot source" flavored reports
and they respond that in a "fog of war" some MINOR details might get misreported...but if any of our OTHER reports are correct...we should get a pass on the phony ones.
4)We say, if you are failing to report ANY positive news (see Curt at flopping aces on today's date for instance), and ALL the misreporting is done to further advance the notion that everything is bad, nothing is good, it's all a complete failure...then you seem to have an agenda. We question your motives, we question your sourcing, we question your failure to edit, your failure to retract and apologize, your failure to meet even minimal journalistic and ethical standards.
4)They say...you have no rights, you have no station, you have no legitimacy, you have absolutely no standing to question us...we are the Ministry of Media aristocracy.
I say. THIS is the battlefront where we MUST win. The odds are enormous against us, and the axiom of "never pick a fight with someone who buys their ink by the barrel" is certainly in play. But we MUST win. Truthiness, liberally flavored with sourciness...is not a dish I want to swallow.
Stop the Ministry of Media's campaign of lies. It is our greatest threat. Don't give up.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 08, 2007 11:33 AM (5RM9g)
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Since Jamil, Jamail, Jamazel was locked away in a "fortress-like complex" unable to get out into the real world, it seems most likely that he would have to get HIS info from a "source".
Since so many of his "confirmed reports" came OUTSIDE his district, it seems axiomatic that his "sources" within his district, had to have sources from outside ...and in the OTHER districts.
Of course, it goes without saying, that those "sources" outside the district can't be at all places at all times and they would need sources. So, it appears that the AP was relying on a source, within a source, within that source, within that source....like Iraqi Boxes?
Big Sources have little sources
To call upon and cite em
And those sources have littler sources
On and on ad infinitum
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 08, 2007 12:04 PM (5RM9g)
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 08, 2007 12:46 PM (n7SaI)
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Posted by cfbleachers at January 8, 2007 12:04 PM
Reminds me of the game we played in grade-school. The first guy in the row was told a sentance by the teacher, he/she whispered it to the one behind them, they to the next, and so on until the last person had to write it on the board, then the origional was shown and we would laugh at the end results.
Posted by: Retired Navy at January 08, 2007 01:01 PM (lNB+R)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 08, 2007 03:06 PM (clafO)
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In looking at the 40/61 stories that were sourced to Jamil Hussein, was there a pattern to the stories? Were they primarily Sunni on Shia violence, Shia on Sunni, mixed, or could you tell?
Posted by: DRJ at January 09, 2007 09:41 PM (gXihP)
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January 05, 2007
And the Questions Remain the Same
I'd never quite appreciated how amusing the Leftist swarm could be until last night and this morning, where an
Associated Press report that Iraqi Interior Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf had finally, at long last confirmed the existence of Captain Jamil Hussein hit the wires, and liberals around the country (and around the world) conflated Hussein's ability to exist with the veracity of his claims.
The illogical leap this took—to purposefully decide that someone's state of existing is an immediate and overwhelming vindication that everything he claimed was true—is massive in its undertaking, and truly staggering to behold. Rarely have so many been willing to overlook so much in the simple hope of being able to say—or in many cases shriek—"I told you so!"
But the simple fact of the matter is that simply existing does not grant validity to the stories that several someoneÂ’s purport to have occurred.
The accuser in the Duke Lacrosse rape case assuredly exists, but it is her multiple stories and the lack of evidence that throws her accounts of what happened on the night of March 13, 2006 into question. She has presented multiple accusations, and multiple versions of her accusations, and yet, nearly the overwhelming majority of people following the case to any degree feel she probably falsified the events she reported. The feel this way because her story kept changing, and while there should have been copious evidence to support her claims, none has thus far been found.
And so it is with the on-going Associated Press scandal that started with the claim of one Iraqi Police Captain by the name of Jamil Hussein on November 24, 2006.
Karl, a guest poster at Protein Wisdom provides an excellent and well-documented summary of the events leading us to this point.
It is a history both intertwined with the existence of Captain Hussein as a long-running Associated Press source, and separate, in that so many of the claims made by this accuser seem to have no basis in fact. As these claims have become problematic, the Associated Press has quietly attempted to write them out of existence without an acknowledgement that these claims were unsupported, without issuing a retraction, or even so much as a correction. In their dogged pursuit of faith-based journalism, they are praying that no one will notice that they have presented a story that reeks of incompetent and biased journalism from bottom to top.
Regardless of Hussein's existence, Kathleen Carroll and the Associated Press have much to account for in their varying, oft-changing accounts of what happened on November 24 in the Baghdad neighborhood of Hurriyah.
In the span of less than a day, they claimed that Iraqi soldiers allowed the alleged murders of two dozen of their fellow citizens right under their noses, that four mosques were attacked with rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns, and assault rifles, and then these four mosques were set on fire and blown up, with a total of 24 Sunni civilians burned to death.
How do we know this? Because the Associated Press tells us so in a story published around the world.
Jamil Hussein, and Jamil Hussein alone, stated:
Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in Friday's assault by suspected members of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia or subsequent attacks that killed at least 19 other Sunnis, including women and children.
To the best I can determine, not another source made such a claim, and yet the Associated Press felt that this single-source claim was enough to level such an inflammatory charge.
Further down in the same Associated Press account, they run the following accusation, again apparently single-sourced to Jamil Hussein:
In Hurriyah, the rampaging militiamen also burned and blew up four mosques and torched several homes in the district, Hussein said.
Has the Associated Press brought forth another witness to buttress this claim? On the contrary; the Associated Press has since backed away from such a claim... and it is not the only one.
In the very same article, the Associated Press cites the following account:
Two workers at Kazamiyah Hospital also confirmed that bodies from the clashes and immolation had been taken to the morgue at their facility.
This is a fascinating "fact," in that Kazamiyah Hospital does not have a morgue, but instead a freezer, as stated by the same Iraqi General that now vouches for Jamil Hussein's existence. Any dead at Kazamiyah Hospital are transported by the police to the Medical Jurisprudence Center at Bab Almadham. Is this general credible, or not? I'll leave that for you to decide.
But even that troublesome and apparently incongruous statement pales in comparison to the next single-sourced claim regurgitated by the Associated Press:
And the Association of Muslim Scholars, the most influential Sunni organization in Iraq, said even more victims were burned to death in attacks on the four mosques. It claimed a total of 18 people had died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque.
So who is this organization called the Association of Muslim Scholars? The Associated Press cites them as a single source, and yet leaves out this very important detail found in Wikipedia:
The Association of Muslim Scholars... are a group of Sunni Muslim religious leaders in Iraq. The Association is believed to have strong links with Al-Qaeda terrorists.[citation required]
They did not recognize the U.S. appointed government as legitimate and have at times questioned any democratically elected government and democracy itself. They have previously asked for withdrawal of American troops, who they accuse of causing the deaths of over 30 000 Iraqis since the war began. They publicly support Al-Qaeda and support the car bombs and the sectarian violence.
Do you think that having such strong alleged tied to al Qaeda might warrant a mention by the Associated Press, if for no other reason than to establish that they might be providing a potentially biased account? If you though so, you obviously disagreed with the Associated Press.
But the apparent affection between al Qaeda and the AP's single-sourced statement is far from being the only item of note in this paragraph; indeed, they make the very specific claim that "18 people had died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque."
In another version of this story, the Associated Press claims specifically that the Ahbab al-Mustafa, Nidaa Allah, al-Muhaimin and al-Qaqaqa mosques were attacked "with rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and automatic rifles," before being burned. There is zero evidence that any of the mosques were assaulted in such a manner, and only the Nidaa Allah suffered minor fire damage from a molotov cocktail easily extinguished by an Iraqi fire company.
Military units in the area late claimed the al-Muhaimin mosque was never attacked at all. Within days, the 18 people that "died in an inferno" quietly left AP's narrative, never to be seen again, as did the allegations of attacks on all the mosques but Nidaa Allah, which suffered only minor fire damage. To this day, neither Jamil Hussein nor the Associated Press has told us which mosque the “burning six” were pulled from, a relevant fact that again, somehow slipped away from the AP, unnoticed.
And so we now find ourselves in a curious position, where AP claims to still stand behind their reporting on one hand, while on the other, dropping the number of alleged fatalities from 24 to six, and the numbers of mosques burned and blown up from four to one.
The Associated Press has not even begun to account for how their story has shifty almost completely from one account, into another story entirely.
They claim to still stand behind their reporting... but which reporting would that be?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Huzzah, hooray, and a good recap.
It's called "framing the debate." The AP & supporters know they're wrong, so they're trying to frame away the damage by attacking the messenger.
Posted by: Tully at January 05, 2007 05:16 PM (kEQ90)
2
So all this time Dan Rather was right even though his document was forged?
Just kidding. EVERYONE knows Bush want AWOL.
Posted by: Robert at January 05, 2007 05:49 PM (VTtVl)
3
C.Y.:
I'd never quite appreciated how amusing the Leftist swarm could be...
I wanted to say, C.Y., you handle the swarm's rants pretty well. Your sense of humor must save you: moonbats wear through my own humored tolerances more quickly.
So I wanted to acknowledge your persevering effort here, adding my encouragement, and wishing you all strength to deal with whatever the moonbats throw at you next. Jamil-gate is far from over, and rightly so.
All the best,
tex
Posted by: tex at January 05, 2007 06:27 PM (PGzrn)
4
Absolutely outstanding post, Bob. I excerpted and linked from Jamil identified, facing arrest? -- Day 2. Had to spend some time on other things, just now making the rounds to see if anyone has a source yet, other than the AP, for Jamil's existence. No luck so far. "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they can't really be out to get you." I'm still not convinced.
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 05, 2007 07:55 PM (n7SaI)
5
You were wrong. Get over it.
Posted by: SteveD at January 05, 2007 08:54 PM (gTTWj)
6
Jamil is a fraud and the AP are proven liars. Deal with it.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 05, 2007 09:29 PM (V56h2)
7
Don't look wrong to me. Looks like it's exactly what it is - the AP trying very hard to make it look like somehow bloggers have endagered the life of a man the AP themselves quoted BY NAME over 60 times. And since centcom and the MOI still have not confirmed anything about this man, I don't know if I want to take the AP's word on anything concerning him.
And you know, beyond determining whether this guy reallys exists - let's find out if the mosque burnings and murders he talked about were real or fake. That's what all of this is about, after all - is the AP reporting real, verifiable news, or fake news that can't be verified but must not be questioned?
For the life of me I don't see how the veracity of a news organization can be turned into a left/right situation. EVERYONE should require that the news being delivered by a major news service be at least TRUE. That should be a basic tenet of news consumption. But the world is so screwed up by people who love to hate that even something that easy gets mucked up.
Posted by: Lizza at January 05, 2007 09:32 PM (hDwif)
8
I am tired of being told NOT to question the demonstrably irresponsible and inaccurate press by people who spend their time finding new ways TO question the president. This hypocrisy is always the last refuge of those who are losing their grip on power.
Isn't trust earned? If so, do you believe the liar when he tries a new lie? That's what I suspect the AP is doing -- they are simply trying a new line, hoping it will save them from admitting incompetence.
And here is a more frightening thought -- if the AP is this inaccurate about something as important as Iraq, how accurate are they about lesser matters? Have they been showing this level of accuracy when covering domestic stories?
Posted by: InRussetShadows at January 05, 2007 10:03 PM (vXBdR)
9
I know there's a problem with fauxtography, but couldn't the AP get some pix of the allegedly damaged mosque(s)?
/just askin'
Posted by: starbird at January 05, 2007 10:22 PM (moV10)
10
Wow. All this time I was searching but now I really have found the lunatic fringe of the GOP.
And it is hilarious.
Many thanks....and keep up the good work...
Posted by: antibush at January 05, 2007 11:10 PM (THcR9)
11
Yea, questioning authority is real lunatic fringe stuff.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 05, 2007 11:50 PM (clafO)
12
And Speaking Truth To Power!
(And here I thought I'd had all my sarcasm surgically removed.)
Posted by: Tully at January 06, 2007 12:18 AM (kEQ90)
13
Oh, okay, there's nothing going wrong in Iraq. You guys may have been proven wrong with the Hussein story, utterly and totally, so that must mean that Iraq is a utopia of civic accord.
My god, the kind of cognitive dissonance required to be a wingnut conservative these days...
Posted by: RedScare at January 06, 2007 01:40 AM (yEbyl)
14
Do liberals not have basic reading comprehension? Did you not read a single word of the above story, RedScare? Existence is not evidence of truthfulness, especially existence verified by a single, less-than-credible source. Do you understand that?
Posted by: InRussetShadows at January 06, 2007 08:16 AM (vXBdR)
15
I still can't get over how the United States is the only nation to drop an atomic bomb... and on civilian population. Sick sick country we have here eh. Hmmmmm, but as I recall a democrat was responsible for ok'ing this mass murder. Democrats, mass murder by abomb, mass murder by abortion... deal with it.
Posted by: Bob at January 06, 2007 09:08 AM (911aw)
16
Did you know that moonbats and mushrooms are grown EXACTLY the same way?
Posted by: pgroup at January 06, 2007 09:44 AM (JIuG9)
17
I think its pretty funny that last year when it was reveiled that the US military was paying Iraqi newspapers to publish TRUE stories written by the troops to help with relations, the left was all up in arms. However, when a questionable source, gives what appears to be false stories that could very well incite and increase secretarian violence.... they seem to think thats ok.... just amazing.
The difference in the two reactions shows you just whos side the left is on!
Posted by: Mark at January 06, 2007 10:00 AM (Ew2L5)
18
Rightists don't follow leadership blindly; that particular brand of foolishness is left for those who whitewash Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Kim Il, and Saddam. If you actually read as much of the right blogosphere as you claimed, you'd know that it's not a cult of personality, but it's a love of certain ideas and principles that drives us. However, I do understand why you accuse us of following a leader, because that's what you do. Funny, how our credibility seems to have the AP running scared, has led to Dan Rather's ousting, a mea culpa from Reuters, and on and on; this "debunking" has no link and no source -- but I am not surprised. Michelle Malkin is a racist? Hurry, someone tell the senate! Oh wait, the President Pro Tempe is Robert "KKK" Byrd. People in glass houses...
Posted by: InRussetShadows at January 06, 2007 12:08 PM (vXBdR)
19
Do liberals not have basic reading comprehension? Did you not read a single word of the above story, RedScare? Existence is not evidence of truthfulness, especially existence verified by a single, less-than-credible source. Do you understand that?
I've followed this whole 'story', and indeed I get the broader agenda behind this conspiracy theory. You guys deperately want to believe that the AP is misrepresenting the facts on the ground in Iraq; that the stories of chaos and violence are false; and that any talk of 'losing' over there should be blamed on the media and leftists (since blaming it on Dear Leader would bust your lockstep authoritarian heads wide open).
What I find amusing is that when an inconvenient fact shatters the little fiction you're making, you guys just crank it up another notch and start calling into question every other detail of the story. It's delusional and pretty pathetic.
Posted by: RedScare at January 06, 2007 12:44 PM (yEbyl)
20
and start calling into question every other detail of the story.
You are of course aware that some of those "details" have been stealth retracted by AP right?
Q: Why would AP do a stealth retraction on major points of fact (like 1 mosque versus 4) if the first telling was right?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 06, 2007 02:19 PM (clafO)
21
Do liberals not have basic reading comprehension?
They often do, they just don't it. The resulting cognitive dissonance can result in cranial implosion, you see. Messy.
While Red and clones may not have noticed, the story was full of holes long before Hussein became a primary check-focus, and it was those holes that led to the closer look at him in the first place. Namely the complete lack of any of the verifiable elements that should have been present had the story been true.
As I've pointed out elsewhere, all we have at this point to "verify" the existence of "Police Captain Jamil Hussein" is the unverified and somewhat obligue account coming out of the AP Baghdad bureau. Which is quite notably lacking in direct confirmatory quotes from the "verifying" source, should anyone care to take a closer look. The story carries the byline of Steven Hurst.
The first appearance of the story carried the byline of Qais al-Bashir. By the time it had morphed into the adjective-laden shock story that played on the front page of hundreds of newspapers worldwide Thanksgiving weekend, the story that started all the questions, it carried the byline of...Steven Hurst.
So here's some perspective for you. The person claiming that Jamil Hussein really exists and is reliable is the very same person whose name is on the original story that was called into question. His account is as yet unverified, the cited source for the claimed confirmation is not quoted directly as saying the things attributed. IOW, the characterization of Khalaf's "confirming" remarks is entirely Hurst's.
And the article does not one damn thing to explain the complete inability of AP to show that the incidents "reported" in the original story ever took place at all.
And the criticism of those who have questioned the story basically comes down to, "How dare you question? This is AP!"
Posted by: Tully at January 06, 2007 02:35 PM (kEQ90)
22
Who in the 'Leftist swarm' is claiming that every statement of Hussein's is legitimate? Most people on the left are calling you an idiot, which is a claim that is fairly well-supported by the accusations of fraud/fabrication/working with the enemy that have been made on this blog and many others over the last six weeks, that are now discredited.
I actually believe that the angle that the AP may be relying too heavily on a single unreliable source is an interesting one, and that if you can gather additional demonstrable evidence to make the case, there can be issues that AP should respond to.
But by refusing to even acknowledge the error of the inflammatory rhetoric leveled against the AP over the last six weeks, or by retracting your own statements along those lines, it's perfectly logical for the 'leftist swarm' to be questioning your credibility, which is exactly what is happening.
Own up to your errors, continue to investigate what you believe are legitimate concerns, and move forward. Quit attacking others and trying to change the subject.
Posted by: boo at January 06, 2007 04:47 PM (y/tNP)
23
Boo has it.
If you really want to stop looking foolish and earn some respect you should start by admitting that you (and Malkin) were all wet when you pushed this notion (non-stop for weeks now) that the AP invented this source.
Posted by: Marko at January 06, 2007 05:05 PM (z4cDV)
24
What is it with you people on the left? This should be easy to follow... We are questioning THE STORY... Period. THE ONLY EVIDENCE OF THIS STORY IS THE TESTIMONY OF JAMIL HUSSEIN. When asked to produce him the AP would not. When asked if he was a police officer the MOI and CENTCOM said they couldn't find anyone with that name.
From there the next logical step is to question if he exists, and if he does, is he a policeman or a person posing as a policeman. So whether or not a police captain named Jamil Hussein does or doesn't exist does not change THE MAIN POINT AND THAT IS....
the AP ran a fake story that could have contributed to more violence.
Is it out of your relm of belief that the insurgency might dress someone up as a police officer and give fake stories to reporters intended to incite more violence?
Do you not see that finding Jamil Hussein isn't the story, it only gives us a starting point to find out who the AP got the fake story from. You act like finding him verifies his story.
In closing I would like to ask you left leaning people here one queston I have asked on several other sites...
Would the AP running untrue stories that incite more secritarian(sp) violence not upset you?
Posted by: mark at January 06, 2007 06:03 PM (Ew2L5)
25
You are of course aware that some of those "details" have been stealth retracted by AP right?
Q: Why would AP do a stealth retraction on major points of fact (like 1 mosque versus 4) if the first telling was right?
Okay, let's say the AP has corrected some details of this story. The only way this is interesting is if it's a persistent and widespread pattern of reporting, ie, that it is a conspiracy to inflate the news of violence in Iraq. So far the wingnutosphere hasn't managed to come up with compelling evidence of this. I mean, the "freezer vs. morgue" dispute is just plain stupid -- whichever one the hospital has, it can be used to store bodies. And, in fact, what hospital doesn't have a space in which to store bodies? Why don't you treat that claim with the same skepticism you level at the AP?
Your best evidence to date of a conspiracy -- that the AP had created a fictional source, Jamil Hussein -- turned out to be false. You guys should just get over it.
Posted by: RedScare at January 06, 2007 06:32 PM (yEbyl)
26
Would the AP running untrue stories that incite more secritarian(sp) violence not upset you?
I would say that's a crime, if you can prove it.
Okay, junior detective, every crime needs a motive, means, and opportunity. Let's start with the first one. Why would a US news organization want to incite violence in Iraq?
And this is where I return to the first comment I made to this post -- I think you have to have a pretty weird tinfoil worldview to think that some cabal of AP directors are sitting around in a smoke-filled room thinking up new ways to spread chaos in the Middle East. Let me ask -- back in the '80s, you used to see a lot of black helicopters flying around, right?
Posted by: RedScare at January 06, 2007 06:42 PM (yEbyl)
27
I love it - they check the hospital. The original story, RedScare, was that 4 (four) mosques were hit with ballistic rocker fire, set afire, and 24 people were burned to death at a particular one of these mosques. When the mosques were investigated, 1 (one) had minor damage and the man who was supposedly killed, an Imam, was found very much alive. The original story had the dead bodies sent to a morgue at a hospital. Whether that hospital had a morgue or a freezer is not the point. Where are the bodies? Then we hear the bodies would have been taken to another mortuary. That mortuary did not get any bodies of the sort at all. Then we hear that no, the bodies were taken to a cemetery and buried. The problem with that is that since the Muslims are so anti-exhumation, we now have no proof that there ever were any dead bodies at all.
At this point AP is saying that Jamil Hussein exists so all their stories must be true. We already know since that has been checked that the story is so full of holes that Swiss cheese would apologize for having that many. So what do the LLL's claim. That of course since Jamil Hussein, who by the way has still not been interviewed to prove his existence and to prove his stories, exists then the story must be true. If you accept that one, check yourself into the closest looney bin because that is where you belong.
Posted by: dick at January 06, 2007 06:56 PM (knU/M)
28
The AP = a bunch of douchebags.
Posted by: Gerald and Saddam at January 06, 2007 07:06 PM (B8NlS)
29
that are now discredited.
That's "asserted" to be discredited. In the absence of actual physical proof, this discrediting remains speculative.
If you have such actual physical proof, as opposed to just more assertions, present it for examination.
I won't hold my breath waiting.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 06, 2007 07:47 PM (clafO)
30
um, wingnuts?
While you are busy deluding yourself in your pleasant litte Never-Never land over here?
Another AP cameraman was just found shot to death in Iraq.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200701/s1822529.htm
That's the second one in less than a month.
That's what happens to REAL journalists, who are really risking something to get stories.
You guys happy now?
All you brave geniuses can carry on - open a celebratory bag of cheetos, or something.
Posted by: reality based at January 06, 2007 07:53 PM (Bg91R)
31
It's a shame that a cameraman lost his life but it still doesn't excuse passing on fabrications as fact. Reporting one true violent incident doesn't allow for reporting false violent incidents. Someone who's 'reality based' should appreciate that.
Now, it's great that there are people going out and finding stories in dangerous places however it doesn't mean whatever they report is factually correct. Someone has to vet and review the story so that it's fit for publication. It's called editing. Surely an organization as large as the AP can employ such people. Reporters on the ground can make mistakes especially in dangerous circumstances. They are not infallible.
Posted by: mishu at January 06, 2007 08:40 PM (pNpi2)
32
oh reality...i feel so bad that I forced that cameraman to go to such a dangerous place...not! I feel bad he is dead - so are quite a few contractors that were working on infrastructure projects - kidnapped and beheaded by your "freedom fighters". Get off your high horse.
The fact is that the story here was not fact-checked and verified by the AP before running it. Was there a group of AP editors sitting in a cigar-smoke filled room dreaming it up? I doubt it. But there were editors who had a deadline that ran a story from a stringer without checking the facts. You can't even dispute that. So - if we have one instance of running a story before checking it out - might we have had others? Seems that photo-shopped photos from Reuters comes to mind. And the fact that Cpt. Tenille - um Jamil - seems to know about every single event in the whole of Baghdad and beyond, and has nothing to do but sit down with the AP, should raise and eyebrow if not actual concern about the veracity of the information attributed to him. Get over it. Get a grip on reality.
Posted by: Specter at January 06, 2007 08:43 PM (ybfXM)
33
it looks like CY (Con Yahoo) erased my previous comment.
The right-wing psychosphere went on a hysterical campaign to prove the non-existence of Captain Jamil Hussein. They got eggs all over their face when Iraqis and the US military finally admitted that there was such a person.
In the meantime, the vicious clods put this guy in real danger. When his body is found on the streets of Baghdad, we'll know who to blame. If the guy is lucky enough, he will be tortured, then released. We still know who to blame.
Posted by: Devil's Advocate at January 06, 2007 09:22 PM (lY4Sr)
34
Devils Advocate and reality based:
Just like when US Soldiers are killed, the liberal blogger lynch mob that defends outing of classified programs tracking the financing of the IEDs will be responsible. I'll admit to one when you admit to the other.
Of course, getting US soldiers killed might be a tad worse (to an American) than an Iraqi leaking false information. But that's just me.
Posted by: SDN at January 06, 2007 09:59 PM (hpLSE)
35
I'm still waiting for some physical proof...
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 06, 2007 11:17 PM (clafO)
36
Alright, I give up for now -- you guys are right, all this reporting of bad news in Iraq is just covering up all the good things that are happening over there.
For example, we're about to get all of the schools over there painted yet again, as this little news nugget informs us:
"President BushÂ’s new Iraq strategy calls for a rapid influx of forces that could add as many as 20,000 American combat troops to Baghdad, supplemented with a jobs program costing as much as $1 billion intended to employ Iraqis in projects including painting schools and cleaning streets, according to American officials who are piecing together the last parts of the initiative."
Man, there's been a whole lotta school painting going on in Iraq over the last three years. The paint must be so thick on those buildings that each one could absorb a depleted uranium anti-tank round like a styrofoam cooler absorbs a BB. Let's all be proud that we're gonna throw another billion at this.
Posted by: RedScare at January 06, 2007 11:21 PM (yEbyl)
37
Redscare;
you say~Okay, junior detective, every crime needs a motive, means, and opportunity. Let's start with the first one. Why would a US news organization want to incite violence in Iraq?
~your not listening. I did not say that the AP would want to incite violence, what I said was "Is it out of your relm of belief that the insurgency might dress someone up as a police officer and give fake stories to reporters intended to incite more violence?"... NOW is it getting clear why we want to find and question Jamil Hussein about his stories?
You say~I think you have to have a pretty weird tinfoil worldview to think that some cabal of AP directors are sitting around in a smoke-filled room thinking up new ways to spread chaos in the Middle East
~and I think you must live in a closet if you don't think that the insurgents are sitting around trying to think of ways to cause chaos.
Reality based:
You say~All you brave geniuses can carry on - open a celebratory bag of cheetos, or something.
~I guess you don't care that the US military had to go into a hostile area and get into a fire fight just because of a bogus story? I am sure you and your leftist friends would have loved another US military death so you can scream about the death toll being higher. Come to think of it I wonder how many IED's have killed military personel going to check bogus stories?
Devil,s advocate;
You say~In the meantime, the vicious clods put this guy in real danger. When his body is found on the streets of Baghdad, we'll know who to blame.
~I am sure it would not be the AP who has printed his name over 60 times, and then gave his full name and station so openly... no, it's the evil bloggers who what to make sure he's legit and not some insurgent planting stories... no way.
Posted by: mark at January 06, 2007 11:39 PM (Ew2L5)
38
all this reporting of bad news in Iraq is just covering up all the good things that are happening over there.
Maybe yes, maybe no.
Hard to tell not knowing if the sources are actually physically real or telling the truth.
Curious you guys have different "standards of proof" for the media...and say...the presence of WMD.
We find actual physical WMD shells, tons of uranium, and you say "well, that's not enough to be real".
The AP produces assertions of Jamil Husseins existence, no physical goods, and you roll over and swallow it hook line and sinker.
Why is this?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 07, 2007 03:39 AM (clafO)
39
We find actual physical WMD shells, tons of uranium, and you say "well, that's not enough to be real".
Holy Polonium, Batman! We found the WMD's? Quick, go tell the Bush administration...I don't think they got the memo!
Posted by: Yossarian at January 07, 2007 07:57 PM (N8M1W)
40
We found the WMD's?
Some, but apparently not enough to satisfy the left.
The local OakRidger newspaper ran stories on the uranium transfers (ignored by the MSM). You'll also find references to the transfer in UN press releases objecting to the fact that we moved it without IAEA notification, and in GreenPeace press releases objecting to the fact that we moved it at all.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 07, 2007 09:07 PM (clafO)
41
It appears that "Yossarian" missed the news too. I guess he/she/it missed the item in the bowels of the New York Times in 2004 when they published the FACT that 500 tons of raw uranium and 1.8 tons of enriched uranium were uncovered at an Iraqi storage site and shipped off to facilities here in the U.S. It was under the control of the IAEA.
Ya miss that one Yossarian? How about the empty chemical/biological shell casings? The long-range ballistic missile components?
Maybe you should read something more than Batman comics. Ya think?
Posted by: Retired Spy at January 07, 2007 09:18 PM (Xw2ki)
42
IT LOOKS LIKE THE INSURGENCY HAS ALREADY ARRIVED IN THE US.
E.G.: the RAW STORY claims to be a liberal news aggregator, but it is jammed with pro-Islamist hate postings, designed to influence the American left. Here are some common themes, and quotations:
Hypersensitivity about Muslim criticism: “How dare you have any prejudice against Islam...”
Pro-Islamist sectarian thinking: “Bush; you paint the schools and let the Shiite commit attacks. God himself could not have thought of it.” – “Hanging saddam galvanized the Sunni and that will only fuel the fire.” --“MY CUNTRY WAS STOLEN ..I ACCUSE THEM..I ACCUSE THEM OF MURDER. I ACCUSE THIS THING CALLED THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF LIES MOST FOUL..YOUR DAYS ARE MARKED.” – “NOW where is this fucking idea of the remuving the shitte ? from control this fucking asshole is sick.” --
Rabid anti-Semitic comments: “Clearly a case of the US and Iraq being run by special interests and a small foreign nation called Israel.” “Bush is just a helpless tool of the Israelis and he will do anything they say.” Thousands of comments like this appear on RAW STORY.
Relentless ant-Christian sentiments: “American Goober christians don't know their faith enough to understand that the Jews don't consider their faith as valid.”
Sexist, misogynist statements: “I'd bet my first born, (if she were a woman)”
Calling others monkeys, a common Arab insult: “COMPARE THE SMIRKING CHIMP TO CAPTAIN ARAB OF MOBY DICK”. Thousands of CHIMP comments appear on RAW STORY.
Frequent references to sodomy and zoophilia: “a fascist loving sheep? Absolutely. Can't think for himself. Just bends over for everything”
Pro-Islamist Stories: “Iran: Israel will regret any attack on Teheran”
I think we need to confront the enemy on our own turf -- they're getting scary, trying to set the US political agenda from with the country.
Posted by: DemocracyRules at January 07, 2007 10:10 PM (+WNUd)
43
I think we need to confront the enemy on our own turf
Not to worry. The democrats plan to ensure that will happen.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 08, 2007 03:12 AM (clafO)
44
Awww..C'mon PA,
You know the dims don't believe there are any terrorists! There are only "freedom fighters" who are struggling against the uber-evil, Israeli-puppet, Americans. Ask Momma Sheehan. She'll tell you.
LOL
Posted by: Specter at January 08, 2007 07:39 AM (ybfXM)
45
Late to comment on this, but there is a certain whiff of, maybe, Mussolini in the last few comments...., don't you think?
Posted by: antiBush at January 10, 2007 11:52 PM (THcR9)
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January 04, 2007
Game On: AP Claims Jamil Hussein Is Real, Faces Arrest
Well now, aren't things just getting
lively?
The Interior Ministry acknowledged Thursday that an Iraqi police officer whose existence had been denied by the Iraqis and the U.S. military is in fact an active member of the force, and said he now faces arrest for speaking to the media.
Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf, who had previously denied there was any such police employee as Capt. Jamil Hussein, said in an interview that Hussein is an officer assigned to the Khadra police station, as had been reported by The Associated Press.
The captain, whose full name is Jamil Gholaiem Hussein, was one of the sources for an AP story in late November about the burning and shooting of six people during a sectarian attack at a Sunni mosque.
The U.S. military and the Iraqi Interior Ministry raised the doubts about Hussein in questioning the veracity of the AP's initial reporting on the incident, and the Iraqi ministry suggested that many news organization were giving a distorted, exaggerated picture of the conflict in Iraq. Some Internet bloggers spread and amplified these doubts, accusing the AP of having made up Hussein's identity in order to disseminate false news about the war.
We'll get to those accusations momentarily, but lets jump down to the end of the article.
Khalaf did not say whether the U.S. military had ever been told that Hussein in fact exists. Garver, the U.S. military spokesman, said Thursday that he was not aware that the military had ever been told.
Khalaf said Thursday that with the arrest of Hussein for breaking police regulations against talking to reporters, the AP would be called to identify him in a lineup as the source of its story.
Should the AP decline to assist in the identification, Khalaf said, the case against Hussein would be dropped. He also said there were no plans to pursue action against the AP should it decline.
He said police officers sign a pledge not to talk to reporters when they join the force. He did not explain why Jamil Hussein had become an issue now, given that he had been named by AP in dozens of news reports dating back to early 2006. Before that, he had been a reliable source of police information since 2004 but had not been quoted by name.
When contacted for a response moments ago, the U.S military (MNF-I PAO) stated:
Mr Owens,
The validity of the AP story below has not been confirmed at this time.
As it is just several hours after midnight in Iraq, the key players in MNF-I PAO were probably caught in bed, something probably not entirely surprising to the Associated Press. I question the timing.
As far as the AP's story goes, it does raise some very interesting questions, and I think I'll have a very entertaining weekend trying to make sense of it all (which is part of the fun of blogging; I'm loving this).
So it appears Jamil Hussein may be real. Good. that means there is a real person to question regarding 61 mostly uncorroborated stories provided as exclusives by Hussein to the Associated Press.
This includes the story that made him (in)famous, where Hussein and the AP claimed 24 people were killed--six by being pulled from a mosque, doused in kerosene, and purposefully burned alive, where the other 18 merely died in an "inferno" at another mosque under attack--during a series of four mosque attacks. In later AP stories, the four mosques trickled down to one, and 18 of the 24 dead mysteriously disappeared, without the Associated Press releasing a retraction or a correction.
I can hardly wait to see where this leads. Is "Jamilgate" over?
Heck no. It's just getting good...
Update: Allah encapsulates things nicely:
I speculated about a mix up due to the conventions of Arabic names back on November 30th, mainly because Khalaf himself had initially been included on Centcom’s list of suspect sources. But that got eaten up by the other (still outstanding) questions: How is it that Hussein was able to comment on attacks all over Baghdad, including some far away from his precinct? How come the AP dropped the detail about four mosques being burned when it was challenged after their first report? Why couldn’t Bob Owens find corroborating stories from other media outlets on so many incidents sourced to Hussein? And why weren’t Armed Liberal’s sources, Eason Jordan’s sources, and Michelle’s sources collectively able to find this guy? I said last week in writing about Zombie’s response to HRW re: the Israeli ambulance attack that “I’ve reached the point where, when one of these blogstorms kicks up, I half-hope the media will produce the smoking gun that proves them right, just so we can have a little faith that they’re covering sensational incidents with due diligence.” Well, here’s the smoking gun. And while I have more faith now in the AP, I have less faith in the certainty of any information I get from Iraq. It took six weeks, with multiple people checking, to confirm the mere existence of a guy whose name, rank, and location were publicly known — and the issue would still be in doubt if Khalaf hadn’t come clean.
Update: Michelle has a nice cross-section of comments in her post on the subject.
The more I look at this, the more I realize that Mickey Kaus got it right:
Capt. Jamil Hussein, controversial AP source, seems to exist. That's one important component of credibility!
Yep, they've got a source that seems to exist. Kathleen Carroll now has the same level of credibility as Mike Nifong. For her sake, I hope she can build a more convincing case.
01/04/07 Update: Corroboration! Sure, it isn't in English and only addresses one story of 61 sourced to Jamil Hussein, but it is a start.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:05 PM
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1
Excerpted and linked at
CENTCOM says AP's "Iraqi police source" isn't Iraqi police -- Part 29. Color this old dog very, very skeptical. So, the Iraqi Police may or may not arrest some dude and claim he's Jamil, then they may or may not put him in a line-up where the AP people can claim "Yes we see him but we aren't going to identify him; must protect our sources, y'know," and we're all supposed to just forget about all those sole-sourced stories that still don't check out? And our source for all this new-found knowledge is ... the AP?
Posted by: Bill Faith at January 04, 2007 07:20 PM (n7SaI)
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A simple "I was wrong, I apologize" would have sufficed.
Posted by: The Kenosha Kid at January 04, 2007 07:54 PM (F9fv8)
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Speaking of retards.........
cgui you may just pass the test.
If Bush had drafted you nephew and he absolutely did not want to serve but went, served and died you may not look so idiotic.
As it is you have "sheehanned" your nephew who though I do not know him, is a hero in my eyes.
Posted by: Luke at January 04, 2007 07:54 PM (CDVOo)
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cgui's comment was deleted for profanity, as many liberals comments are. I'm locking this thread for about an hour while I hit the gym, and while open it again when I get back and can moderate.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 04, 2007 08:00 PM (HcgFD)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 04, 2007 09:36 PM (HcgFD)
6
CY,
Can't you, at long last, show the tiniest shred of decency, and just admit that you were wrong? Can't you do that?
Didn't think so.
Posted by: Hed at January 04, 2007 09:59 PM (ZS4Cu)
7
"A simple "I was wrong, I apologize" would have sufficed."
Well, that's what so many have been trying to get outta the AP for botching the "story," what with no bodies, no smoldering mosques, and no muliple sources.
But does it apologize? Noooooooooooooooooo.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at January 04, 2007 10:02 PM (Ohkx7)
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I'm concerned about Captain Hussein's safety at this point.
Posted by: Jackmormon at January 04, 2007 10:03 PM (sfMCf)
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Seriously, the ink isn't even dry on those newly discovered records. For $10,000 in the right place I could get Captain Kangaroo or the Easter Bunny listed in the Dade county records as a Miami cop.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 04, 2007 10:04 PM (clafO)
10
Not only are you guys 100x worse than a Dan Rather, when it comes to pushing phony stories that you wish were true, you also seem to have 1/100th the integrity.
You wingnuts are so over.
Posted by: Chick Rainey at January 04, 2007 10:10 PM (3Ze9T)
11
Why don't we wait and see what happens next, rather than jumping to conclusions?
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at January 04, 2007 10:21 PM (1w197)
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And the timing.
Gosh.
Do you think the AP strongarmed the Iraqi police to give up Jamil .....
Just when Michelle Malkin is about to go over there?
Sounds really fishy to me.
Posted by: Daniel at January 04, 2007 10:25 PM (6+AeE)
13
People who want the bloggers to "admit they're wrong" keep forgetting that the then-missing Jamil Hussein wasn't the big issue. He only became an issue when the burning mosques and the burning people became suspect (to put it mildly). Given he sourced the story which appears to be at least exaggerated, and possibly completely false, "who and where is this guy who has sourced some 61 other stories" becomes a very logical question. I'm delighted they found him. Now some people (other than the AP) need to talk to him and find out what the game was and if the 61 (or whatever number) other stories had any credibility either. And, if he was intentionally fanning the flames of sectarian violence with false stories, it might be nice if that came to light. At best, the AP did at least one lousy job of fact checking (the burning mosques and people), and at worst they were dupes in a game intended to cause damage. It would still be nice to know what this dude's game was, and to see him punished for it if it was intentionally provoking more violence in an already violence ridden Baghdad.
Posted by: irishlad317 at January 04, 2007 10:50 PM (rUZ+s)
14
AP was right. CENTCOM was wrong. You were wrong. So your conclusion is that you should continue to doubt the AP while believing what you've been told about the situation in Iraq by CENTCOM. I see. Just remember, none of your posts were titled "AP Source Slightly Miscounts Number of Dead In Horrific Baghdad Slaughter", they were all about Jamil Hussein's lack of existence, so don't try to pretend that the controversy was about something else now.
BTW Rick (in comments), the US military confirmed at least one of the smoldering mosques and there are pictures confirming it so you might want to try to move the goal posts a skosh more.
Posted by: Mojo at January 04, 2007 11:07 PM (ihxk3)
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My local news just reported that a couple of guys had their legs blown off when a bunch of iraqi kids threw multiple grenades into their vehicle. it wasn't even the top story locally.
I don't think the ap, or anybody, has to make up horrific acts and tragedies over there. There's plenty. Unless channel 7 news in arkansas is in on the fraud, as well.
Iraq is a fiasco. If you can't see that, you have a problem.
Posted by: DL at January 04, 2007 11:14 PM (o4ja3)
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Bill said: And our source for all this new-found knowledge is ... the AP?
Well bill - the source is actually the interior ministry. AP is the news organization. And i just bet you if the interior ministry didn't say what was reported by the ap, they woulda denied it.
Posted by: DL at January 04, 2007 11:18 PM (o4ja3)
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Gotta love the last comment: "[he was also a] reliable source of police information since 2004 but had not been quoted by name."
They're saying he was reliable!? on what basis?--that he reliably would have a new shocking story every week? LOL
Posted by: alfonso at January 04, 2007 11:21 PM (16AX/)
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see, this is what I love about wing nuts. The idea of being personally responsible for the crap they publish, and the effect it has, just totally ESCAPES them!
Take this blogger, who has beens screaming for weeks that the source never existed.
He was, in fact. WRONG. The Shiite thugs running Iraq LIED. Centcom LIED. And Malkin, Confederate Yankee, et al, fell for those lies, hook, line, and sinker.
In fact, they get this Iraqi police captain - who has been a long-standing source for the AP - arrested, probably tortured, and possibly killed. They did that. His blood is on their hands.
Yankee and Malkin and the rest of the Deluded, cling desperately to the "the media is making it all up" fairy tale, because they still refuse to face the undeniable reality of the situation.
Here are the FACTS: Bush lied the country into war and then screwed it up totally. The situation in Iraq is WORSE than has been reported by the American Media.
And this whole mess is completely, totally, and uniquivocably Bush's fault.
Keep frantically spinning your fairy tales, guys. The rest of the country has long since faced reality - eventually you will have to, too.
You'll just have bloodier hands than the rest of us.
Posted by: reality-based at January 04, 2007 11:25 PM (Bg91R)
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Well, if we're going to play rhetorical games, would you be willing to state, then, Mojo (et. al) that:
"Jamil Hussein exists, therefore EVERYTHING he has said regarding the conditions in Iraq and EVERYTHING the Associated Press has reported regarding those conditions with Jamil as the single source are wholly true or at the very least unintentionally exaggerated or falsified?"
Will you be willing to state that? Yes or no?
Hint: Jayson Blair reported some things correctly, too. He was still a fraud.
Posted by: Grayson at January 04, 2007 11:30 PM (HskdF)
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Wow, it doesn't take much bait to get them out of the woodwork, does it?
"Slightly miscounted"....um...four mosques were burned to the ground/one door was slightly vandalized. Anyone other than me see something more than a "slight" reporting error here?
18 people were murdered in cold blood, six men were dragged out into the streets and doused with kerosene and burned to death while coalition forces watched and did nothing....um...nothing of the sort happened at all. Anyone other than me see something more than a "slight" reporting error here?
A regular police officer in an area around Northwestern University in Evanston is reporting as the sole source about events in Hyde Park near the University of Chicago, about events near Comiskey Park, near Wrigley Field, near Chicago Stadium and in Naperville. The sole source. Does anyone other than me have even the slightest curiosity as to how he knows the intimate details of these events...BEFORE anyone else does?
And is anyone the least bit concerned when it is PROVEN that he's dead wrong?
Not among the leftists. He exists, therefore he's "truthy".
The real question is "What did Jamil not know and when did he not know it".
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 04, 2007 11:49 PM (5RM9g)
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"reality-based," do you have the first clue what you are talking about?
AP--not any blogger--has been broadcasting Jamil Hussein's name since April 24, 2006. If anyone set him up for a fall because his identity was revealed, it was they. If he is to be arrested, then you admit he broke the law, and is not a very trustworthy police officer. As for the torture/death angle, that was already refuted in the AP's own report. Odds are that he will walk.
As for who lied, when, and how, that still remains to be seen, and you can rest assured we'll do what we can to get to the bottom of it, as I have attempted for the past several weeks. As a prime example, I just obtained evidence in an Arabic online outlet that corroborated one of Hussein's 61 stories. To date, AP never attempted to do the same, nor has anyone else. Why? I want to know the truth, while you cling to BDS so tightly your knuckles are turning white.
Do you even
know a soldier or marine that has been to Iraq? I'm guessing you don't, because one thing the overwhelming majority of them that I've heard of, and every single on I've met has shared, has been the comment that the media is covering the war so incorrectly (whether through bias, infiltration, or incompetency sems to be the big debate) that when they see the media reports, they get very angry, becuase it is like they are not even reporting the same war.
You got a clue who Pat Dollard is? He was a Hollywood agent who quit pimping the pretty people to go film the war. He got blown up twice, saw Marines he befriended die. He's putting out a documentary series on the war, and while he was in Iraq, he saw firsthand how inaccurate the media was, as they reported his death. He wrote to me a little while ago:
It's vastly common knowledge in the media that stringers are not widely reliable sources of information. I remember standing in the Ramadi
Government Center days before the last election, while CNN and Reuters were reporting that the place had just been overrun, and we were all maybe dead. It was an odd day, because not even a shot had been fired there. I found out about the CNN and Reuters story because an ashen young Marine came back from the little phone room, upset because he had just spent 20 minutes calming down his hysterical wife who had heard the report. The report had been fed to Reuters from one of their many insurgent stringers; and the stringer was intent, as many are, to issue propaganda in support of his insurgent comrades.
You don't know
jack.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 04, 2007 11:58 PM (HcgFD)
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Keep in mind guys, the AP has already admitted their original report was wrong, as the U.S. military asserted. The U.S. government issued a passport to Mohammed Atta AFTER 9/11, so I'm not surprised Iraq's government (which has been for all of what? three years?) initially had trouble finding him.
Jamil Hussein only became interesting when he couldn't be found, and his existence only began to be questioned due to the AP's ineptitude in producing him. The fact they finally have just makes you wonder how they can be that incompetent, and that doesn't inspire confidence in anything they report.
Also, there's the unresolved problem of how Jamil Hussein could have been the source for 61 stories in many districts. It seems likely he was just repeating what he heard on the grapevine.
Posted by: TallDave at January 05, 2007 12:00 AM (odS+4)
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"""It took six weeks, with multiple people checking, to confirm the mere existence of a guy whose name, rank, and location were publicly known — and the issue would still be in doubt if Khalaf hadn’t come clean."""
Stange admission considering the word "credibility" has been thrown around a lot in regard to this story.
And despite the fact that with all these people trying their best to even merely confirm the existance of a named person assigned to a fixed location in Baghdad for six weeks, and they couldn't even achieve even that, they are somehow encouraged in by the fact that they will do better now that he has been threatened with imprisonment for talking to the press without authorisation.
Honestly, you could really only have brought less to the table in terms of research ability if you couldn't find Baghdad on a map. And somehow none of it is predictable. Yeah stay tuned for another exciting chapter in the ongoing series:
"Stories that cannot be confirmed by bloggers with no ability to confirm them"
Like any other outcome was possible. Sheesh.
Posted by: Tank at January 05, 2007 12:11 AM (aOeXm)
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I can't tell if Tank is denigrating bloggers, the AP, or both.
Posted by: Slartibartfast at January 05, 2007 12:14 AM (ppwRv)
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Do you think the AP strongarmed...
AP can't "strong arm" anyone. They can however park a Mercedes in someone's driveway and hand'em the keys, or hand'em a sack full of cash and write it all off as a business expenses.
I have personal experience with bribery in the city of Boston. Back around the early 80's, $500 in a brown lunch sack persuaded certain city officials in the Ray Flynn administration to move mountains in minutes expediting certain construction permits. Ask the manager of the Back Bay Hilton how the permits for their walkway canopies were obtained...BRIBES. A $500 bribe to be exact. Delivered in a brown paper lunch bag.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 05, 2007 12:32 AM (clafO)
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That was fairly obvious to predict. Also easy to predict is that somehow the AP will be blamed for several amusing weeks of wingnut reindeer games.
Posted by: jpe at January 05, 2007 12:40 AM (cQPd9)
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Just curious: What kind of legal documentation is recorded/available in Iraq? Are hospital records available? Are death certificates issued? Are autopsies conducted? Are even primitive crime scene investigations conducted? Other than verbal police reports and eyewitness accounts -- and the occassional on-the-scene video, what exists to substantiate anything?
Posted by: Rueful at January 05, 2007 01:20 AM (V190m)
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game on? Game, set, match to the AP. Great shame to Malkin, et al
Posted by: FP at January 05, 2007 01:35 AM (YH19h)
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Um, Yankee?
First, for the record, I know a lot of folks serving - all of whom say that the situation is much WORSE than the media has reported.
A direct quote from one: "There are at least twenty horrible things happening around Bagdhad on any given day - some a lot worse than the burning mosque. Everybody know it happened, the AP didin't make it up - but so many people get slaughtered every day in this city, it's old news by now. "
Second, you did not respond to my point that the Iraqi Ministy of the Interios - AKA, Yours and Malkin's trusted source - is controlled by Muqtada Al Sadr's Mahdi Army thugs - you know, the folks who are shooting 20-100 Sunnis in the head every day, and dumping the bodies around Baghdad.
So let's recap, shall we?
1. Shiite thugs from the Minstry of the Interior set Sunnis Mosques on fire and burn some Sunis alive. The AP reports the story, giving many sources, one of whom was Jamil.
2. The Ministry of the Interios - AKA, the Madhi ARmy thugs who perpetrated the crime - deny that the crime occurred, or that the named witness exists. Centcom repeats those lies.
3. Malkin, Yankee, et al, swallow this guff whole, and spend the next month screaming that Jamil does not exist.
4. The Ministry of Interior now announces that Jamil DOES exist, but will be arrested - a blatant threat and, I imagine, a warning to everyone not to talk to the media in the futre.
5. The wing-nut-o-sphere - having swallowed a bunch of Mahdi Army lies whole, and having been proved laughably, horribly, gullibly wrong - so that they are the object of even more derision than usual by those of us in the reality-based community - starts frantically trying to deny they ever said what they said, or did what they did, and oh, Muqtada al-Sadr's guys are STILL telling the truth, and the AP is STILL Lying.
really, its laughable.
and you're "so if he's arrested he must have done something wrong" argument - oh, PLEASE! Do you think all of the murdered Sunni bodies who turn up in Baghdad day after day - most murdered by Al Sadr's thugs in the Ministry of the Interiors - were all ARRESTED FOR CRIMES?!?!?
I would like to ask one question, though -
Why were you and Malkin so eager to accept the word of Muqtada Al Sadr's boys? Are you a big fan of them, or something?
I would expect your next post to at least ADDRESS the fact that the Iraqui Ministry of Interior - your source on all this - is run by the Mahdi army (AKA, your preferred source. )
Posted by: reality based at January 05, 2007 03:24 AM (Bg91R)
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What kind of legal documentation is recorded/available in Iraq?
Well, at a minimum if you want to get paid, someone has to have a physical record that you're like...actually on the job.
So far, nobody, not AP or the Iraq govt has waved such a record around for the cameras. For that matter they haven't even waved some old burger wrappers around and tried to fake it.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 05, 2007 03:32 AM (clafO)
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If the Iraqi Interior Ministry took nearly three bloody weeks to figure out 'oh wait, we do have an employee of this name on our payrolls', maybe Iraq has achieved a level of bloated bureaucracy that they need in order to be a fully successful nation. I salute you, Iraq, for successfully succeeding where other nations have failed! Godspeed!
Posted by: Viola Johnson at January 05, 2007 03:35 AM (NU9fG)
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What Reality Based said.
It really IS just a game to you, isn't it, CY?
Sad.
Posted by: Jody at January 05, 2007 04:06 AM (ISz5u)
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I don't get the posts that somehow believe this is resolved... what are you guys reading?
Posted by: Ali at January 05, 2007 08:11 AM (hDlfX)
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Heh. Watching the moonbats try to argue is fun!
Look, there was a reason why people were trying to find this guy. The reason was that the stories weren't adding up. "Reality Based"'s arguments that, "well, so many bad things are going on that it's easy to believe" is just so much more "fake but accurate" baloney.
Now that he's been found (apparently) we can begin asking the real questions--like his being used as a source for so many disparate stories across Iraq. Again, the AP still doesn't have a reasonably explanation for this. These moonbats are acting as if his existence was the only issue at stake. AP's unwillingness to answer its critics is what caused the stir, but the questions haven't even begun to be answered yet.
Many of the stories featuring Hussein were badly sourced otherwise. Even "Reality Based" has to admit that (unless, as I suspect, he is not in touch with reality at all). Verifying the existence of a named source shouldn't be a problem. It wasn't an unusual request, given the doubt surrounding the story. If AP had done its job, the question would have been answered a long time ago.
But evidently there are some out there who are all too eager to think the press unable to make such mistakes. What planet do they live on?
Posted by: ern at January 05, 2007 08:12 AM (5/Co+)
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I don't seem to remember that the AP reversed their story on the 6 immolations. They did admit that 4 mosques had not been burned down...but stated it was only one. Now we find that the entrance to that mosque shows some damage, but was not burned down.
There is no evidence of any immolations. None. Except some "eye-witnesses" who refuse to be named, and an Imam that recanted his story. The other news agencies have their "eye-witnesses" who say that the immolations did not occur. I guess reality-based would claim that they are all run by the Muqtada's boys too, since they are saying the same thing the Ministry is.
The questions that have to be asked about Captain Tenille...uh...I mean Jamil...are what gave him the right to talk to the news about "rumors" he had heard? Are you really expecting us to believe that he went to all these sites and investigated? How does a cop in Brooklyn know the specifics of an investigation in Queens? It does not make sense. But then again, maybe (and I can speculate just as easily as you reality-based) Jamil is being paid by the Baathists to plant news stories. That is as likely as any other explanation at this point - and seeing as he was the only one that reported this happened, well - applying occams razor - it is more likely that he was wrong.
But, the thing is, that now he can be questioned by multiple people about the stories he reported on. I know - you think asking him questions is "torture". Let's hear what he has to say.
I find it amazing though that the AP sat on this until Malkin (who I do not read often) issued her challenge to Kathleen Carroll. Why didn't AP just take the guy by the ear and go to the Ministry when he was first questioned as a source? That would have saved a lot of hassle.
Posted by: Specter at January 05, 2007 08:15 AM (ybfXM)
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Hmmm. It took AP this long to bribe some Iraqi into claiming that he's the missing man? Of course they had to train him about what to say when he's asked about those 61 other stories, and that could take time.
I'll wait and see if there's any reason to believe that the guy's genuine. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. If he is, somebody will have a good opportunity to grill him about those other stories. Maybe he's genuine, but just a liar. We'll see.
I certainly won't take anybody's unsupported word for anything about this case. Does that make me a wingnut?
Posted by: tom swift at January 05, 2007 08:19 AM (6Hefd)
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Tom Swift - "I certainly won't take anybody's unsupported word for anything about this case. Does that make me a wingnut?"
Short answer: yes. Now can we please go back to real news, like why every month you see the news item "More US troops have died in ever-increasing violence this month since the month of XXX in 2004" and why Bush's half-hearted "surge" isn't going to do diddly-squat to get us on any road to victory.
Posted by: J. at January 05, 2007 08:51 AM (tm/sN)
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Well, at a minimum if you want to get paid, someone has to have a physical record that you're like...actually on the job.
The Iraqi armed forces are full of "ghost battalions" in which officers pocket the pay of soldiers who never existed or have gone home. "I know of at least one unit which was meant to be 2,200 but the real figure was only 300 men," said a veteran Iraqi politician and member of parliament, Mahmoud Othman. "The US talks about 150,000 Iraqis in the security forces but I doubt if there are more than 40,000."
http://tinyurl.com/9wups
Posted by: The Kenosha Kid at January 05, 2007 09:31 AM (F9fv8)
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the validity of the story has been confirmed...
ap's source is jamil hussein.
Posted by: allen at January 05, 2007 10:07 AM (Ae5n0)
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game? you are truly an idiot.
Posted by: bc at January 05, 2007 10:14 AM (iYhrl)
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"BTW Rick (in comments), the US military confirmed at least one of the smoldering mosques and there are pictures confirming it so you might want to try to move the goal posts a skosh more."
Gotta get your Mojo working to move the goalposts yourself. A somewhat singed wall on one mosque versus four gutted mosques. No burned-alive bodies. And *I'm* moving the goalposts? Nosirree. The Spirit of Dan Rather/Mary Mapes--"Truthiness is All That Matters"--moves the whackjobs still.
I love how the moonbats here, fully reality-based, of course, believe CENTCOM's reported unfamiliarity with super-witness Jamil=conspiracy to deny his existance. I may be wrong, but I don't believe it's their business to be aware of every Iraqi police officer, even of substantial rank.
The MOI is a different story, and bears watching. But it's credibility is scarcely worse than AP's.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at January 05, 2007 11:11 AM (Ohkx7)
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"Jamil Hussein only became interesting when he couldn't be found, and his existence only began to be questioned due to the AP's ineptitude in producing him. The fact they finally have just makes you wonder how they can be that incompetent, and that doesn't inspire confidence in anything they report."
This "producing him" stuff is confusing to me. Newspapers don't generally "produce" their sources. They quote them in stories, and if they use their names, others can presumably try to
find them. But the source doesn't work for the newspaper, has no particular reason to be
directed by the newspaper to show up at any place or to have a phone conversation with any person.
If you go ask a reporter to put you in touch with his source, he probably won't do so unless the source has oked that contact.
Posted by: William Swann at January 05, 2007 11:18 AM (SN1xT)
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Yankee when you get to the bottom of the story on the other hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis from freedom seeds, let us know. The world is riveted to this fascinating truth-seeking story.
Posted by: naked lunch at January 05, 2007 11:30 AM (TPrgD)
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What William Swann said.
You wingnut tools haven't got a CLUE what's involved in war coverage, do you? You do understand that journalists are being killed while they're trying to report the news from Iraq, don't you? And you have the gall to propose that this is all a "game"? What on earth is wrong with you?
Yes, please, Mrs. Malkin, go to Iraq. Find out "the truth." By all means. Take the NRO clowns and the rest of these smirking doughy-faced cowards of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders who think this is all a game with you. We're eager to hear the results of your unbiased, professional reporting.
Posted by: MzNicky at January 05, 2007 11:34 AM (vpBE3)
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Congratulations AP, after six weeks you have finally met the absolute MINIMUM standard in attempting to verify this story. You have, probably, proved that your single source is a living breathing Iraqi Policeman. You still have not been able to prove why the original story was so inaccurate. I would hope that AP would continue to investigate the matter, particularly focusing on stringers like Qais al-Bashir, but I am afraid that they will consider the matter closed.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at January 05, 2007 11:46 AM (oC8nQ)
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Yes "ern", please go over there and ask Mr. Hussein all the questions that only you right-wing bloggers in your anti-"liberal msm" fever frenzy have been dreaming up. While you're at it, maybe you can help get him out of jail, and possibly, escape the country, as I'm sure he is now, thanks to all of your ranting gibberish, a quite juicy target for some insurgents who might like him to shut up.
Posted by: Xanthippas at January 05, 2007 12:05 PM (GwDrh)
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"...a quite juicy target for some insurgents who might like him to shut up."
A man is cited 61 times as a source in one of the world's foremost news agencies, but only now is he in danger from the insurgents? Why? Is is usefulness finished?
Moonbat-world is a special place, for sure.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at January 05, 2007 01:01 PM (Ohkx7)
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Does anybody know where I can get a bumper sticker that reads "I'd rather be a wingnut than a moonbat"? This whole thread just makes me want to get one.
Posted by: Dan at January 05, 2007 01:04 PM (PJprg)
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The Iraqi armed forces are full of "ghost battalions" in which officers pocket the pay of soldiers who never existed or have gone home.
Sure, that's fine and all. There however records, even if they're fake, when someone makes a payroll.
AP and the MOI have yet to produce even fake records.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 05, 2007 01:38 PM (clafO)
50
I, like William Swan, find this "producing him" stuff confusing.
The burden of proof falls on the accuser, not the accused.
Those making accusations must provide proof to substantiate those accusations.
He who charged that the police captain doesn't exist must prove that charge.
Now that the Iraqi MOI has recanted, and has said that Capt. Jamil Hussein is indeed on the payroll, there seems to be no evidence to support the charge that he was a fictional character.
This recantation casts doubt on statements of fact made by the MOI.
Charges based on MOI statements must now be subject to a higher standard of proof.
Conversely, AP's statement that Hussein exists has been verified.
In the absence of proof that Capt. Hussein was a fictional person, the charge must be dropped.
If there are other subsequent charges against The AP that proceed from the original charge that Capt. Hussein was fictional, those charges will now be harder to prove.
But again, it is upon those who choose to make charges to supply the proof. The burden is on them.
Posted by: Ego Nemo at January 05, 2007 01:50 PM (roD2U)
51
Jumping into the snakepit, I'll emphasize
personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is the key to solving most of the problems men make for themselves, and in a professional organization like AP, personal responsibility is very clearly assigned through the laws and bylaws governing each of the actors involved in suspect reporting.
Each of the AP journalists, editors, ombudsmen and assorted honchos knows what his own personal responsibility is, and he must act on that responsibility. I'm no journalist, but I expect that the demands of responsibility require, at minimum, that these people work to verify and then publish all work-product records of the suspect 61 stories: releasing all to the public, or at least to investigative reporters not associated with AP. Also Hussein should be produced, in the flesh and on camera, to confirm all he's said.
It's a problem of trust. The AP principals have to get off their duffs at long last, and exercise personal responsibility to solve that problem. So far they've refused to do so. I don't accept their excuses, and neither should anyone else.
(On the lighter side, I see Jamil Hussein is bravely reaching out to the world, even though he's now held in deepest, darkest incommunicado. Check out his, ahem, heroic
blog.)
Posted by: tex at January 05, 2007 01:50 PM (PGzrn)
52
Ego Nemo:
I, like William Swan, find this "producing him" stuff confusing. The burden of proof falls on the accuser, not the accused.
Then let me unconfuse you.
A professional news organization has produced a batch of stories that are distinctly suspect.
At this point professional responsibility kicks in. The principals must investigate, verify, reconcile, punish, publish, etc., so as to remove suspicion and regain the public's trust.
Unlike a legal case, in which an accuser bears the burden of proof, in matters of journalistic integrity it is the news organization which is on the hook.
Personal responsibility: it's hot.
Still confused?
Posted by: tex at January 05, 2007 02:04 PM (PGzrn)
53
"The burden of proof falls on the accuser, not the accused"
Wow. That's a new one. The AP makes outrageous claims of burning mosques and Sunni massacres. They're called out on their sources, and the burden of proof falls on THOSE WHO CALL THEM OUT?
Of course, you probably think Mike Nifong is being abused as well. How DARE anyone question his motives! What PROOF do they offer of prosecutorial misconduct?
It's a fascinating pathology, moonbattery: The presumption of innocence is paramount, except when applied to the critics of modern liberalism. It is incumbent upon those who question the authority of the AP to provide evidence that they are lying, not for the AP to provide evidence it isn't.
Except, of course, for that pesky self-imposed obligation of the AP to document it's sources. I guess it's really more of a guideline, not a rule.
Oh strange new world...
Posted by: gumbi at January 05, 2007 02:25 PM (x8Std)
54
"The fact that they said exactly who he was and the MOI lied about it makes them in the wrong."
Crack (me up),
MOI was wrong to either lie about Hussein, or be so inept at personnel matters that he was unheard of to them.
AP was wrong to take dictation from a single source, particularly after a number of his scoops didn't check out with other news organizations. The Baghdad police may be paying Jamil Hussein, but that's not necessarily who he's working for. Think "Rove," in reverse.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at January 05, 2007 03:09 PM (Ohkx7)
55
crack:
The fact that they said exactly who he was and the MOI lied about it makes them [i.e., the MOI] in the wrong.
No, it shows that somebody in the MOI doesn't take personal responsibility, either.
It doesn't lighten AP's dutiful burden by a feather. Had they done their job, they could have answered all questions authoritatively at the start. As things stand now, all 61 stories are still as suspect as before, and we enjoy more photos of Bigfoot than we do of Jamil Hussein. Go figure.
gumbi:
It's a fascinating pathology, moonbattery: The presumption of innocence is paramount, except when applied to the critics of modern liberalism. It is incumbent upon those who question the authority of the AP to provide evidence that [AP is] lying, not for the AP to provide evidence it isn't.
Right on, gumbi. So often they put up the facade of aggrieved victim, regardless of the merits of the criticism. I'd say the behavior of the most talented and public moonbats was
reasonable -- if, that is, they were in the pay of foreign governments intent upon
breaking the will of the West. But with few exceptions, I think that's not the case. Instead the behavior seems pointless and merely self-destructive: hence
pathological -- gumbi's correct word.
Is there a clinical psychopathologist in the house?
Posted by: tex at January 05, 2007 03:13 PM (PGzrn)
56
"And why werenÂ’t Armed LiberalÂ’s sources, Eason JordanÂ’s sources, and MichelleÂ’s sources collectively able to find this guy?"
Because they don't have the official AP cape, secret code ring, password, or any super powers. Only genuine AP Journalists can wear the SuperJ cape and with their clairvoyant vision see what "really" happened.
Sheeesh, I thought *everyone* knew that.
Posted by: crosspatch at January 05, 2007 03:46 PM (pxZRL)
57
Slightly OT, but... as regards those few
exceptions to the rule of innocent moonbattery:
Many of the
apologists for the Iranian regime are suspect, most especially those who were released from Iranian prisons and allowed to emigrate under murky circumstances. Many of these one-time protesters compromised themselves and their families to win their freedom, and are now living under the extorting thumb of the mullahs. So when an Iranian exile tells the press, "The mullahs are evil, but you can't really do anything about them because...", be suspicious.
Reference:
AntiMullah.com
Also I harbor less concrete doubts about the innocence of our
older anti-war moonbat journalists, intellectuals and bureaucrats. You know, in the 60's and 70's, and in some cases even 80's, European (and to a lesser extent, American) anti-war movements were heavily infiltrated and subsidized by Soviet agents. A lot of ambitious young people compromised themselves in the process. Now they're in positions of power: in the press, academy and EU bureaucracy. And I wonder if the current FSB-cum-KGB isn't still pulling their chains, to make them moonbat in the most useful way. Is European moonbattery psychopathology, or the extortion of a compromised position? That's an open question in my mind...
Reference: The former acting chief of Romania's espionage service lays out some Soviet anti-war disinformation history at
National Review. Excerpt:
KGB chairman Yuri Andropov managed our anti-Vietnam War operation. He often bragged about having damaged the U.S. foreign-policy consensus, poisoned domestic debate in the U.S., and built a credibility gap between America and European public opinion through our disinformation operations. Vietnam was, he once told me, "our most significant success."...
The KGB campaign to assault the U.S. and Europe by means of disinformation was more than just a few Cold War dirty tricks. The whole foreign policy of the Soviet-bloc states... revolved around the larger Soviet objective of destroying America from within through the use of lies. The Soviets saw disinformation as a vital tool in the dialectical advance of world Communism....
As far as I'm concerned, the KGB gave birth to the antiwar movement in America. In 1976, Andropov gave my own Romanian DIE credit for helping his KGB do so....
Do y'all have other and more detailed examples of paid/extorted moonbattery? Enquiring minds want to know...
Posted by: tex at January 05, 2007 04:21 PM (PGzrn)
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January 02, 2007
Fulla Crop
As I've stated previously, I'm
not real thrilled with those who have decided to prostitute the Saddam Hussein execution video, and now that Allah tells me
what the executioners were shouting, I'm even more disgusted.
Instead of professionalism, we get an execution rushed by the Iraqi government, and featuring the taunting of the condemned dictator by Sadrist Shiite guards. It's a throughly digusting display expected of primitives.
That said, the media's reaction in hunting and almost hoping for a Sunni uprising as a result of this travesty of an execution is mockable in its own right.
Dafydd at Big Lizards has a field day mocking the media response:
In a stunning display of perspicacity and sophisticated nuancing, if I'm allowed to coin that neologism, the drive-by media has discovered that long-time supporters of Saddam Hussein in Iraq are irked that he was hanged.
[snip]
So, what are we talking about, how large a "mob of angry protesters?" Was it ten thousand rallying in Samarra? A hundred thousand rocking Baghdad?
[snip]
Great Scott, if we add hundreds to hundreds, we get hundreds -- possibly a thousand. Out of a population of 8.5 million Sunnis.
The photographic evidence seems to bear Dafydd out.
Truly amazing. I haven't seen such a massively cropped protest photo since...
Zoom in tight enough, and crop it tight, and you, too, can have your very own media-worthy mob.
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They had to execute him quickly to prevent the Jihadists and their allies (European Union and MSM)from stirring up riots etc. As for the rude remarks from the executioners, I think you are making a mountain out of a grain of sand; the man was a monster and you are worried about rude remarks. Fie. Kill him and good riddance. Once more I give thanks to G-d that Hitler didn't come along in 1999. Most of the US would be kissing SS boots and a lonely handful would be making their last stand up in Idaha or somewhere.
Posted by: maxnnr at January 02, 2007 03:51 PM (Eb+5u)
2
agree with you on the execution CY. We handed him over to the death squaders that fire at our soldiers. Recording the video for the "street" is fine I guess, but why throw a bone to the people we still have to fight?
Posted by: runner at January 02, 2007 04:58 PM (CyjMp)
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Gone in 60 Stories
On December 5 of this year, I wrote a blog post entitled
60 Billion Minutes, where I wrote:
We also know that Jamil Hussein has consistently been a source for at least 60 news stories over two years, and that Jamil Hussein is just one of many apparently fake sources that has driven Associated Press reporting in Iraq.
This presents us with the unsettling possibility that the Associated Press has no idea how much of the news it has reported out of Iraq since the 2003 invasion is in fact real, and how much they reported was propaganda. The failure of accountability here is potentially of epic proportions.
In the weeks since that date, the Associated Press has maintained that the stories they originally reported on November 24-25 of burning mosques and burning men is true, even though almost every single factual claim made in the account has been disputed. The AP maintains this position today, even after the Iraqi Interior Ministry Officially stated that the AP's source, Captain Jamil Hussein, simply didn't exist, and that no one by that name ever worked at the two police stations where AP said he did.
To all of this, Associated Press Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll stated:
Some of AP's critics question the existence of police Capt. Jamil Hussein, who was one (but not the only) source to tell us about the burning.
These critics cite a U.S. military officer and an Iraqi official who first said Hussein is not an authorized spokesman and later said he is not on their list of Interior Ministry employees. It's worth noting that such lists are relatively recent creations of the fledgling Iraqi government.
By contrast, Hussein is well known to AP. We first met him, in uniform, in a police station, some two years ago. We have talked with him a number of times since then and he has been a reliable source of accurate information on a variety of events in Baghdad.
No one - not a single person - raised questions about Hussein's accuracy or his very existence in all that time. Those questions were raised only after he was quoted by name describing a terrible attack in a neighborhood that U.S. and Iraqi forces have struggled to make safe.
That last paragraph printed above has bothered me since I first read it. Executive Editor Carroll, you see, is absolutely correct.
No one raised questions about Hussein's accuracy or his very existence for a span of run of stories starting on April 24 until his late November unmasking as a probable specter; a remarkable run that Curt at Flopping Aces pegged at 61 stories. This run as a named source doesn't begin to account for any stories he may have contributed anonymously as "an Iraqi Police Captain" or "according to Iraqi Police" over his two-year relationship with AP.
And so it was more than a month after Hussein was compromised that I did what the Associated Press editorial process should have been doing the entire time: I began attempting to fact-check the claims made by Jamil Hussein. I took the list of 61 AP stories citing Hussein, opened my web browser to Google.com, and went to work.
In eight hours over three days last week, I tracked down online examples of the first 40 of 61 Associated Press stories citing Jamil Hussein, as replicated in news outlets and even official government press offices around the world. I then took keywords, dates, and phrases from the paragraphs citing Hussein, and attempted to find corroborating accounts from other news organizations.
I am by no means perfectly suited to do the work here that needs to be done. I lack access to LexisNexis, a powerful popular subscription-based searchable archive of periodicals such as newspapers, and I'm not about to pay for their AlaCarte service, where reading this single blog post would cost you $3. Nor do I speak any of the languages of the Middle East in which one might encounter variations of these stories, meaning I am limited to searching English-only content. That said, I did the very best I could with a limited set of skills and tools. The detailed results of my search are here. Knowing what I now know, I don't think that the editorial processes of the Associated Press even put forth that paltry effort.
Put bluntly, a search for other news agency accounts of the events described by Jamil Hussein seems to indicate that most of these events simply do not exist anywhere else except in AP reporting. I was completely unable to find a definitive corroborating account of any of Jamil Hussein's accounts, anywhere.
That I was unable to find corroborating accounts for some stories is quite understandable; even in non-war-torn countries some news organizations have access to some stories denied others, as reporting assets and sources are not evenly distributed. Most of the AP dispatches using Jamil Hussein as a source were simply not that big in the wider and often larger chaos of the bloody sectarian conflict whirling through Baghdad; a gunbattle killing two suicide bombers, or even a non-fatal car-bombing is something that has sadly become far too common in many parts of Iraq, and Baghdad in particular. That other news agencies don't account for every single attack of this kind is not surprising-though it should be somewhat suspect when in 40 straight stories, not a single one of your competitors captured the same event. Not one. At that point, some sort of editorial oversight should have kicked in, should it not?
And yet, in 40 AP stories checked, only in two instances covering a total of four stories did I run into anything approaching possible corroboration.
On May 10, AP reporter Thomas Wagner included in a dispatch the assassination of an Iraqi Defense Ministry Press Office employee:
In Baghdad, suspected insurgents riding in two BMWs assassinated a Defense Ministry press office employee as he drove to work at about 8:15 a.m., police said.
One of the BMWs stopped to block the car of Mohammed Musab Talal al-Amari, a Shiite, said police Capt. Jamil Hussein. Three men got out of the other BMW and opened fire in the residential neighborhood of Bayaa, killing al-Amari and wounding an Iraqi pedestrian, Hussein said.
The Defense Ministry controls Iraq's military.
A truism about people: they become involved in things that they can relate to. Journalists in a combat zone are acutely aware that becoming a casualty is a significant possibility, and so when someone in the business gets injured, people take notice. For example, Nabil al-Dulaimi is hardly a household name in the United States, but when this radio news editor was killed in an ambush near his home by gunmen on December 5, more than a dozen English language news accounts mentioned his death.
While Mohammed Musab Talal al-Amari was a Defense Ministry Press Office employee and as such perhaps not a recognized journalist, wouldn't you think that someone other than Jamil Hussein would mention his passing?
To date, we simply don't know if this account was correct. While AP mentioned al-Amari's assassination three times, no other news agency has covered his murder to the best I have been able to determine. The only thing close to corroboration that I have been able to determine so far is the recollection of a CPATT source that a Ministry of Defense Press Office official did die in May. I will have to probably wait several more weeks to get further information.
Likewise, AP had an apparent exclusive on the murder of Iraqi Police Captain Amir Kamil on Tuesday, June 10.
Elsewhere in the capital, police Captain Amir Kamil, who provided security for the Yarmouk hospital, was shot to death on Tuesday at a bus station, Captain Jamil Hussein said.
According to AP source Jamil Hussein, Kamil provided security for Yarmouk Hospital. Even in bloody Baghdad, the deaths of rank-and-file officers warrants notice by the various news services, so why isn't there any corresponding coverage from other news organizations of the assassination of a police captain? Once again, no other news agency reports this death, and I may have to wait for weeks to get word from Iraqi officials.
Over the course of the first 40 stories in which he provided apparently uncorroborated information, it seems that the Associated Press could have easily questioned how reliable of a source Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein might be before they were backed into the corner of having to defend the apparently fictional captain, the apparently fictional five dozen news accounts he fed them, and the eventual and righteous questioning of their basic journalistic methodologies that allowed something so wrong to run for so long.
And so, as Associated Press Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll noted previously:
No one - not a single person - raised questions about Hussein's accuracy or his very existence in all that time.
This includes the reporters, editors, and officers of an apparently unreliable and unrepentant Associated Press.
Update: We also learned last night from former CNN head honcho Eason Jordan of IraqSlogger that:
In statements, the AP insists Captain Hussein is real, insists he has been known to the AP and others for years, and insists the immolation episode occurred based on multiple eyewitnesses.
But efforts by two governments, several news organizations, and bloggers have failed to produce such evidence or proof that there is a Captain Jamil Hussein. The AP cannot or will not produce him or convincing evidence of his existence.
It is striking that no one has been able to find a family member, friend, or colleague of Captain Hussein. Nor has the AP told us who in the AP's ranks has actually spoken with Captain Hussein. Nor has the AP quoted Captain Hussein once since the story of the disputed episode.
Therefore, in the absence of clear and compelling evidence to corroborate the AP's exclusive story and Captain Hussein's existence, we must conclude for now that the AP's reporting in this case was flawed.
To make matters worse, Captain Jamil Hussein was a key named source in more than 60 AP stories on at least 25 supposed violent incidents over eight months.
Until this controversy is resolved, every one of those AP reports is tainted.
Update: Over at Pajamas Media, Richard Miniter brings some mostly constructive criticism of the assumptions I've made in writing this post. I'm not sure I agree with his conclusions completely, but he is certainly dead-on when it comes to why this matters.
01/04/07 Update: A source has provided me with a translation of this Arabic account, one of several verifying the death of MOD PAO Mohammed Musaab Talal al-Amari, killed on May 10. Why did you click the link? You don't speak Arabic any better than I do. We now have one of the 40 stories I inquired about corroborated by other news agencies.
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Posted by: Bill Faith at January 02, 2007 12:00 PM (n7SaI)
Posted by: Good Lt at January 02, 2007 12:06 PM (D0TMh)
3
Excellent work Bob. Let me be the first one to congratulate you on your
Zombietiming of the AP Capt Jamil Hussein story.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at January 02, 2007 12:44 PM (oC8nQ)
4
Excellent work!
I question
AP's Ethics, as they made that available by asking how anyone dare question them.
Posted by: ajacksonian at January 02, 2007 01:01 PM (oy1lQ)
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Happy, Healthy and prosperous New Year, Bob.
Outstanding work, as usual.
Beginning in 2007, I have adopted a new resolution for wire services and other Ministry of Media reports...it's phony until proven otherwise.
If they want our trust back, they will have to get it the old fashioned way...they have to eeeeeaaaaarn it.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 02, 2007 01:58 PM (V56h2)
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If you or another blogger wants funds to pay for Lexis searches, just point us to the tip jar. Information may want to be free, but sometimes we need to pay for it.
Posted by: MamaAJ at January 02, 2007 02:21 PM (uQ/sL)
7
Damned fine police work, as is often said on many other fictional works. AP, as with all "news services" is in business to generate money; sadly, it's often a simple matter to generate counterfeit news for the real thing.
Posted by: John Foland at January 02, 2007 02:53 PM (S3BUD)
8
MediaBistro.com, a blog/resource site for writers and media professionals, has negotiated a deal with Nexis/Lexis. Full access for $59/month. You must be a member of mediabistro's site, which is cheap. The site's editorial content is free to members and nonmembers alike.
I'm not affiliated with mediabistro, just passing this along.
http://www.mediabistro.com/avantguild/lexisnexis/?c=mbhsh
Posted by: Mark H. at January 02, 2007 03:07 PM (hrdpc)
9
Well, the AP has put the stall, hinder and delay on ...closing their eyes as tightly as they possibly can and wishing and hoping and wishing and hoping...that this would just simply all go away.
My apologies to Dean Smith as he passes along his wins record to Bobby Knight and his four corners strategy to the Dark Knight (AP).
Apparently Kathleen Carroll couldn't be bothered with ATTEMPTING to come up with even remotely intelligible alibis and excuses. Instead she spits out the following:
Essentially...Jamil Hussein is well known to us. He works in a very rough area and therefore we don't want to produce him, because that would be very dangerous for him. (Apparently, it would be unwise and unsafe to have him found)
Um....so, um Kathleen...you gave us his name, where he works and his rank. How would he be in greater danger again...if you produced him?
And, are you the ONLY news agency with access to this police station? And him? How did you manage that?
And, not to press this point too finely...BUT YOUR STORY ON THE MOSQUES THAT YOU GOT FROM HIM...it's garbage. It has not held up to even modest scrutiny. Forget Jamil for a moment, what's the follow-up on the DETAILS you gave for that story?
And, your obfuscation has gotten people to do a little MORE digging (not less, as your fretfully hoped for)...what do you say about NOBODY backing up ANY of your stories for which Jamil is the main source?
Listen, you arrogant, smug, pedantic prig...you OWE the public an explanation. It's not up to you to decide that you already have been "truthy enough".
You and your pal Wagner are stonewalling and we're sorry...but, your act has worn thin. Your story smells of dead fish. Your alibis and excuses are even worse.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 02, 2007 06:10 PM (V56h2)
10
So if Jamil Hussein doesn't exist, then all the stories about fighting and violence in Iraq must be lies, too. That's a relief!
Mission accomplished!
Posted by: Hed at January 02, 2007 06:54 PM (ZS4Cu)
11
How would we know if all the stories are lies...if the lemmings and parrots aren't interested enough in the truth to care?
Of course, it doesn't matter if it's a little true, somewhat true, kinda true...because if you recite from the playbook and sing from the hymnal...then "WE BELIEVE" sloganeering is good enough.
Why bother with sources at all? After all, it's simply the MESSAGE that's important...not the truth.
We need to get the leftist MORAL of the story, even if it's a fairy tale...instead of news.
Aesop's fables, brought to you by Mother Goose.
Basically, the Ministry of Media and their lemming/parrot followers have the following directive:
"Here's a story, here's the moral...become a World Populist and live happily ever after. We should all live like Stepford Consumers, become vegetarians and fret fitfully about climate change of one degree over 300 years."
Thanks, but I think perhaps actually USING our brains might be better suited for those of us who aren't sitting on them. But thanks for playing.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 02, 2007 07:37 PM (V56h2)
12
I happen to have access to LexisNexis. Searching over a five-year period, the term "Amir Kamil" comes up in four articles. Three of these sources are from British news agencies and address the topic of college enrollment. The Amir Kamil cited there is not a police captain, but an 18 year-old trying to get an International Baccalaureate Diploma at North Wales college. An Iraqi police captain by that name appears only under a search of all news wire services, and is found in a single story published June 20, 2006 by the AP.
Similarly, I ran a search for "Talal al-Amari," "Mohammed al-Amari," and "Mohammed Musab al-Amari," thinking that different news sources may have edited his name. Searching for "Talal al-Amari," I got twelve hits, all from the AP and all seeming to be the same article. Searching for "Mohammed al-Amari" I actually found mention of an Iraqi doctor by that name, also in an AP article, but nothing else in regards to Iraq. The search for "Mohammed Musab al-Amari" came up empty. Still, we cannot discount the possibility of alternative spellings.
Posted by: JSchuler at January 02, 2007 07:56 PM (3pmKq)
13
If you read these stories in sequence as they supposedely had to happen, then it seems that Jamil Hussien is more knowledgable than Bagdad Bob without the title. After reading the first 10 stories you automatically assume he is the main source for all stories in the region. There should be several ways to find out if he is real.But it would be hard to corroberate since I beleive most news sources rely on Ap. and Rueters as did most foreign news agencies when Walter Duranty spewed his lies and was the main source that was beleived in another time and place. Good Luck....
Posted by: Patricia Pender at January 02, 2007 08:33 PM (Eodj2)
14
So that's an average of 7.5 stories a month from Hussein, but now that somebody has questioned his existence, he's vanished off the face of the earth and has been featured in exactly none.
This is a farce.
Posted by: morbo at January 02, 2007 09:33 PM (XFk4x)
15
Morbo has nailed it. If Jamal is real, why isn't he trying to clear himself? Why isn't he *still* reporting news stories? The AP is stone cold busted and they know it.
Let's all together face it -- the AP is manufacturing "news" for those who want to believe that Iraq is quagmire.
Posted by: InRussetShadows at January 02, 2007 09:58 PM (vXBdR)
16
Hang in there Hed...your wishes and hopes may come true...and pigs could fly...and Rove will be indicted in just 24-business hours. Keep hope alive....
Posted by: Specter at January 02, 2007 10:06 PM (ybfXM)
17
Thanks for the hard work, CY. You know, there's another question here. There are a number of "elite" news organizations with offices in Baghdad. None of them chose to do their own original reporting on any these 40 stories? Not one? Possible, I suppose, but I wonder if they did look into at least some and they couldn't confirm them, so they didn't run with them, ahem. Just wondering.
Posted by: Dave E. at January 02, 2007 11:22 PM (Eodj2)
18
Sooooo, if Capt. Jamil Hussein was in fact a propaganda byline for AP ... who do they "have" over there at Reuters, the BBC, and etc.?
Posted by: Edmund Jenks (MAXINE) at January 02, 2007 11:28 PM (H5Tsr)
19
I have to admit.
As a liberal, it's reassuring to know how much time and energy is being wasted in right blogistan obsessing over shit like this.
No one in America remembers that story. Yet how many thousands of hours have y'all spent pounding your keyboards in rage?
Keep it up. It keeps the rest of us safe from what you might do if you were slightly more imaginative.
Posted by: -asx- at January 02, 2007 11:32 PM (haU2u)
20
"nobody in Timeshare America cares". Boy, isn't that the truth.
Oops. I forgot. Leftists don't care about the truth. They only care about the message.
Good parrots. Now back in the cage.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 03, 2007 12:29 AM (5RM9g)
21
Great work -- but you need to get a Lexis-Nexis sub. I have been able to dig out a couple of interesting tidbits:
1) It appears that a number of staffing changes have been made at the AP Baghdad bureau since the elevation of Kim Gamel on Dec. 11 (as reported on your blog).
---Notably, Sinan Salaheddin, whose byline graced several of the disputed reports, has not written or contributed to a story since Dec. 14; previously, he was contributing several stories a week. (Note: Salaheddin is also the name of the province that contains Tikrit & Samarra, and Iraqi names often refer to place of origin).
---Sameer N. Yacoub's nearly daily contributions come to a cold stop on Dec. 18. Yacoub and Salaheddin appear to have the largest number of stories featuring "Capt. Jamil Hussein."
---Additionally, Thomas Wagner appears to have been reassigned to London at the same time. Wagner authored the original story on the good captain.
---On the other hand, several of the other correspondents linked to Jamil-gate are still actively filing stories.
2) "Jamil Hussein" makes an appearance as an ER doctor at Yarmouk Hospital (!) in a May 6, 2005 Knight Ridder (not AP) article by Gaiutra Bahadur and Yasser Salihee. The context is similar to the subsequent appearance of "Capt. Jamil Hussein." Quote:
"Because things are getting worse day by day, I suggested we open a branch for Yarmouk Hospital near the recruiting centers," said Jamil Hussein, an emergency room doctor treating the wounded.
"I've been working day and night since the announcement of the new government," he said. "We're still receiving dead civilians and military people despite that day."
3) As you note, "Capt." Jamil Hussein makes his first appearance on Monday, Apr. 24, 2006. I find it interesting that this is a mere two days after Maliki was sworn in as Prime Minister. The car bombing that "Jamil" described was part of a series of 7 car bombings in one day. It might be interesting to link the Jamil-gate stories not only to their explicit content, but also to their immediate context.
Posted by: SadRaidersFan at January 03, 2007 02:27 AM (h6Eh5)
22
Anyone who works in a university or is a university student in the UK can have free access to LexisNexis - and lots of other high-octane information databases through their university library, which can give them the ATHENS password they need. For personal research purposes, of course. Commercial use is not permitted.
I'm sure there is some similar arrangement in the USA.
See http://www.athensams.net/allresources.php
for a list of the data services available free through the ATHENS gateway
Posted by: nevermind at January 04, 2007 12:26 PM (puVGY)
23
I presume you will now delete all this questioning in lieu of today's acknowledgement by the Iraq Interior Ministry that, in fact, Jamil Gholiaem Hussein does exist, and is an officer assigned to the Khadra police station. However you will be happy to learn that he has also now been arrested for talking to the media, and probably will be executed by some faction or another. So much for instilling democracy there, eh? (source: www.editorandpublisher.com)
Posted by: Jon Organ at January 04, 2007 06:12 PM (yhJeI)
24
My questions from my posts above remain WHOLLY AND ABSOLUTELY unchanged.
Moreover, if the answer was this simple, why did it take over a month to produce it?
And...I have printed both Ace of Spades and Michelle's posting of this item...it didn't come from any drek rag blog.
Since leftists start as overwrought, too tightly wound base points, it comes as no surprise that "execution" for "talking to the AP" would bubble up in the froth.
He's not going to be executed by anyone, but I sure do hope somebody gets to the bottom of the phony stories he was "sourcing"...which, after all...is the point of all the scrutiny.
You know...that silly, little inconvenient thing...called the truth.
Oops. I forgot. Leftists are only interested in "the message"...they don't give a damn about the truth.
Posted by: cfbleachers at January 04, 2007 06:58 PM (V56h2)
25
How deep into media conspiracyland are you really willing to go before you give up on this foolishness? You are now implying that all the rest of the media sat by complicitly while the AP made up stories from a fake source (who is now known to be real), because they are all in one big conspiracy to make it look like things are going poorly in Iraq. Your primary argument has been that Jamil Hussein was a fake source and didn't exist. That was your main point. Now you know he exists, so you go on to other arguments. You are worse than Bush creating new reasons for the war whenever his old one is found to be bogus. Be better than Bush. Admit you did a terrible thing here. You are so mad about Iraq going sour, that you go after a news organization that has the balls to try and tell the truth. And this guy Jamil Hussein might pay a heavy price for your silly folly. All he did was tell people what is happening. Grow up. You know the war isn't worth fighting for, or you'd be there now, right?
Posted by: steve ex-expat at January 05, 2007 03:23 AM (rJLFg)
26
Let's see all the reporters ID him... one by one.
BTW, you may also want to check if the source did time in Gitmo or was previously arrested or APs accounts payable (or reporters slush money for sources).
This smacks of Hez PR tactics.
Doubting that middle name as well.
Posted by: Ali at January 05, 2007 08:09 AM (hDlfX)
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