October 30, 2007
An Eye For Detail
I had every intention of letting "Cheney Flag-gate" go uncommented upon as a non-story. Vice President Cheney went pheasant hunting at an exclusive preserve in Dutchess County, New York yesterday, and the hunt itself left only pheasants hitting the ground. It was a local interest story for the most part, until a sharp-eyed photographer and a self-promoting blowhard turned this local interest story into a national non-story when it was discovered that the inside of the back door of a garage at the hunt club was draped in a Confederate battle flag.
There is precisely no evidence that Cheney or anyone on his staff saw the flag, but that didn't keep the Daily News from running straight to Al Sharpton. The story ended in lots of hot air being spit by a man in love with the sound of his own voice, and many people fruitlessly wishing they had a way to somehow blame the Vice President.
I only mention this story at all because of the eye for detail it reveals in our media. Consider this a "teachable moment" for media fact-checkers.
Here is the flag photo, as captured by a Daily News photographer.
Note the detail the Daily News posted about the flag itself:
A Daily News photographer captured the 3-by-5 foot Dixie flag affixed to a door in the garage of the Clove Valley Gun and Rod Club in upstate Union Vale, N.Y.
Not to be outdone, Austin Fenner of the Post claimed:
But the veep only shot him self in the foot - by visiting the exclusive Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club in Union Vale, a sprawling preserve nestled along the western side of Clove Mountain, where a 5-foot-by-5-foot Confederate flag hung in a garage attached to the club headquarters.
Led by the tabloids, the Times "Cityroom" blog blindly follows, and ups the ante with a rather blatant embellishment:
Reporters who covered Mr. Cheney’s visit on Monday — including Fernanda Santos of The Times — were not permitted to enter the grounds of the hunting estate. But at least one eagle-eyed photographer captured images of a Confederate battle flag — about 3 feet by 5 feet in dimension — hanging in plain view in a garage attached to the club’s headquarters.
If it was in "plain view" as alleged, why didn't the Times' Fernanda Santos—or any other reporter or photographer than the one from the Daily News —notice it? Clearly, Sewell Chan had a much better view of the action from Manhattan.
But let's talk about the view for a moment, and about media accuracy. It is admittedly a small matter, but indicative of a greater pervading sloppiness.
Look at the picture again, and the descriptions. The Daily News and the Times puts the flag at "about" 3-by-5 foot in dimension, and the Post, inexplicably, determines the flag is 5-by-5 foot, proving that they failed rectangles and squares.
But before you laugh too much at the Post, make sure you include the Daily News and the Times, for they are far off the mark as well, as a little common sense would tell you.
Look back at that flag again.
Actually, look at the door.
When is the last time you saw an entry door that is 5-feet wide? This door is at most 36 inches wide, and many older buildings have rear garage doors commonly just 2'8" in width.
The flag, it would seem, is roughly half the size of that which the media claimed. This isn't malice, of course, just carelessness over the details.
The same sort of carelessness, however, gives us stories of brutal massacres that didn't happen. It gives us bullets that were never fired or never made. All of these stories are equally untrue because of reporters wanting to rush stories to print without getting the details right.
Speed to press will never save the print media. Bloggers will always be faster. The media must be more accurate, more diligent, and more credible. To date, they show little sign of learning this lesson.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Balanced and a good comment on the current state of MSM. However, I can easily envision the blogosphere's own hystericalist, Andrew Sullivan, manufacturing a mountain out of essentially a mole hill.
Posted by: Terry at October 30, 2007 03:41 PM (d/RyS)
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Do those colors seem overly saturated? The foreground appears much yellower than one would expect. Objects hanging on the interior walls are redder. The contrast is certainly boosted.
That may be the reason other photographers didn't notice the flag. It is probably so faded that it is near-unrecognizable; an old, pale rectangle of cloth covering a broken window in a garage.
Posted by: lyle at October 30, 2007 03:55 PM (0LZe8)
3
Not incidentally, this is Union Vale, New York we're talking about - not exactly a remote bastion of the old Confederacy.
And the 'place of honor'? Raise your hand if you keep valued possessions nailed to the inside of the back door of your garage.
Posted by: lyle at October 30, 2007 04:03 PM (0LZe8)
4
I have to agree with Sharpton, Cheney should get right on apologizing for being at this hunting preserve. Right after Sharpton publicly apologizes to the Duke Lacross team and the young man who took the beating in Jenna, and...Al Sharpton a racist? Who knew?
Posted by: R30C at October 30, 2007 06:54 PM (CaZfk)
5
Oh horrors! Dick Cheney went hunting at a club where some low-level worker hung a "forbiden object" in an out-of-the-way employees-only area.
This is such a non-story, I hadn't heard about it until now.
Posted by: MikeM at October 30, 2007 07:10 PM (nyO8l)
6
The Thought Police are out in force again, I see.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 30, 2007 07:33 PM (ysloH)
7
Dutchess County? Isn't that where Tawana Brawley claimed she was raped by white men and Al Sharpton accused DA Steve Pagones of rape?
Posted by: Dennis D at October 30, 2007 07:35 PM (y9UWN)
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The VP should state he'll apologize when "Rev" Sharpton pays the judgement against him in the Brawley slander/libel.
I don't imagine Bill Clinton was ever, EVER in the vicinity of a Confederate battle flag. Nosirree, no chance of that in Arkansas.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at October 30, 2007 09:01 PM (Ohkx7)
9
"Speed to press will never save the print media."
Agreed. But, I might add, speed is not always the blogger's friend. Haste to post has sunk many a blogger, with Dread Pundit Bluto being the most recent example.
Posted by: Robert Stevens at October 30, 2007 09:07 PM (hsAB9)
10
Bob:
O.T.
Email me at the provided email addy. I'm currently Stateside on R&R and headed back on the 8th. I might be able to do a fist...er.. face-to-face with Beuachamp as I am taking a new contract up North.
Best Regards
BC
Posted by: Big Country at October 30, 2007 09:41 PM (SIzGZ)
11
That appears to be an Army of Tennessee flag from the 1863-1865 period. The Army of Virginia flags look somewhat similar, but would be square rather than rectangular.
Confederate flag vexillology is non trivial and rather involved. The majority of confederate battle flag types DID NOT contain the stars and bars. Those that can vary greatly depending on the state/unit. Sometimes there's a star in the middle, sometimes not. Most battle flags that used the stars and bars put them in the upper left corner with the bulk of flag area designated for other symbology.
It would be easy to mistake some confederate naval flags for abbreviated versions of the current day US flag.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 30, 2007 10:47 PM (491+P)
12
I feel safer at night knowing there are 'eagle-eyed' photographers out there who can spot things 'in plain view'. They are probably real good at tying their shoes as well.
Those stories read like a game of telephone where with each pass they are embellished or distorted. In telephone, however, the excuse is that the statement is misunderstood or mis-heard. What's the excuse for changing details when the details (though incorrect) are in print?
Posted by: negentropy at October 31, 2007 07:31 AM (27KAF)
13
CY, unless you get data from someone who has actually measured the door, you're engaging in precisely the same kind of uninformed speculation you accuse the reporters of conducting.
Posted by: nunaim at October 31, 2007 07:38 AM (JkdOg)
14
nunaim, have you
ever seen such a door that's 5 feet wide? Have you seen many doors? I haven't and I have. Uninformed? I think not.
Posted by: Pablo at October 31, 2007 07:52 AM (yTndK)
15
nunaim, as someone who has in the past held a real job in construction and remodeling, and in that area of New York (in Orange County, just across the Hudson from Dutchess) to boot, I assure you, that is not "uninformed speculation."
I know you're trying to score a cheap "point" here or there when you can, but please, stop embarrassing yourself.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 31, 2007 08:01 AM (0BhZ5)
16
nunaim will grasp at any straw to make a conservative look bad.
That's why he virtually always ends up looking bad himself, cause he doesn't bother to investigate before grasping those straws.
But, he is good for a laugh, and as a poster child for the absolute idiocy of the hard-core left. I guess that's why CY keeps him around.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 31, 2007 08:36 AM (ysloH)
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The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the -
Web Reconnaissance for 10/31/2007 A short recon of whatÂ’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at October 31, 2007 10:35 AM (gIAM9)
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Ah, yes: fake but real.
Posted by: nunaim at October 31, 2007 02:47 PM (22/Qe)
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Yes, yes, nunaim, we know that you know more about construction in that part of the country than someone who's actually lived there and worked in construction.
You also know more about military strategy than the Pentagon, more about economics than the Federal Reserve, and you even know more about everything than God Himself does.
We all bow to your incredible intellect.
Please go away now.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 31, 2007 09:15 PM (ysloH)
20
we know that you know more about construction in that part of the country than someone who's actually lived there and worked in construction.
Remember how the opinions of generals who had served in Iraq as recently as last year were discarded by CY and others on this site because they weren't "on the ground?" (Oh, and because they said things CY didn't want to hear, of course.)
It's interesting how, when it cuts your way, "I did this thing one time" is sufficient proof; when you disagree with the ideas, the only thing that will suffice is up-to-date eyewitness testimony backed up by video--and even then, some yahoo is going to see a conspiracy in the fact that the image seems oversaturated.
Consistency? That must be for weeners, right?
Posted by: nunaim at October 31, 2007 09:44 PM (xIeY7)
21
Actually, nunaim, it is consistent.
CY is basing his opinion on his personal experience of the topic at hand.
CY has dismissed the opinions of people who
lack personal experience of the topic at hand.
Too bad you can't comprehend that.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 31, 2007 09:46 PM (ysloH)
22
My problems with Cheney's hunting escapades is that his impression of hunting (raised birds, private lands) shield him in his hobby from the consequences of this administration's policies have on the rest of the hunting population.
Those of us who hunt public lands (or would like to) have seen the environmental disinterest of this presidency and the wholesale auctioning off of public lands for mining interests without regard to the impact in the quality of the life we have.
Of course, if you are sitting on a stool with a glass of single malt, holding your custom 28 gauge shotgun while waiting for a low paid hick to kick a few tame birds your way, you might be too preoccupied with the luxuries of your life to care that the rest of us don't see it the same way. Be then, I'm not a cyborg, and can still walk through the woods with my dog and old savage automatic.
But then, i forgot your mantra "Cheney Good/ Bush good/ facts bad."
Posted by: ltg at November 01, 2007 12:09 AM (O3LoN)
23
nunaim,
Do you suppose the opinions of generals who served in Iraq in Sept. of 2007 might be more indicative of current conditions than those whose last service in Iraq was 2006?
Or is Iraq a static situation where nothing changes?
Posted by: M. Simon at November 01, 2007 06:04 AM (eeb3t)
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M. Simon, your question presupposes that generals who are not actually standing on Iraqi soil are totally cut off from all information about Iraq. Following your own reasoning, then, Bush should not be allowed to make any decisions about Iraq because he's not there.
This whole thing has happened at other times, as well. Remember the photos that CY declared worthless because the people in them "were aware of the photographer?" And then I found several photos on Yon's site with people--including Iraqi kids and American soldiers--lined up and staring into the camera? But that was different, of course, because you agree with Yon and you disagreed with
what you perceived to be the agenda of that other photographer.
Posted by: nunaim at November 01, 2007 07:35 AM (xIeY7)
25
Of course, nunaim is too brain-dead to realize that by dismissing the opinions of those generals that are actually in Iraq, he is himself doing what he accuses CY and others--including myself--of doing: giving weight only to those opinions he agrees with.
Hypocrisy, thy name is nunaim.
Posted by: C-C-G at November 01, 2007 08:44 AM (ysloH)
26
What CCG is too brain-dead to realize is that I'm not dismissing the opinions of the other generals and I never have. He made that up in order to fit his own personal narrative about me. Backing up his assertions about me positions would take some thought and effort on his part, however, and this is something he is unlikely to do. It's far easier to make up my opinions for me, I guess.
I'm commenting on the reasons for which the generals' opinions were dismissed, and the lack of consistency of the Right's general approach to things this highlights.
(By the way, CCG, I'm flattered that you care enough about me to have a "Nunaim Narrative" shelf in the cluttered crawlspace that you call your brain. BFF!!!!!)
Posted by: nunaim at November 01, 2007 10:15 AM (22/Qe)
27
He better not enter the State Capitol of Mississippi, then.
Posted by: Mikey NTH at November 01, 2007 02:35 PM (O9Cc8)
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So, nunaim, you agree with General Petraeus' report on the status of things in Iraq, then?
And I've already addressed your consistency point. Please read carefully.
Posted by: C-C-G at November 01, 2007 07:20 PM (PGjzz)
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I'm willing to accept the idea that there's less killing in Iraq now than there was before, but holy shite! There'd better be! Look how long we've been there! Also: less killing doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Finally: mentioning the word "consistent" in your post does not mean that you've addressed the underlying issue, any more than simply mentioning the name "Petraeus" would mean that I'd answered your question.
Posted by: nunaim at November 02, 2007 08:02 AM (pAGPh)
30
nunaim, I truly pity you. You clearly cannot comprehend even a three-line response of less than 100 words.
Please seek professional assistance immediately, before you do yourself harm with a dull butter knife.
Good day, Sir. I said,
Good day!
Posted by: C-C-G at November 02, 2007 08:18 AM (PGjzz)
31
Good day, Sir. I said, Good day!
Well, it doesn't get any lamer than that, does it?
Posted by: nunaim at November 02, 2007 04:33 PM (22/Qe)
32
I read but don't comment often here - nunaim, you are special, as in special olympics. Change topics to cover for your ass-spanking on door size speculation? sucks to not have state-supplied self esteem, no?
Posted by: Frank G at November 03, 2007 04:52 PM (Ydps9)
33
First: I received no spanking, assward or anywhere else. CY and others here have established what they consider to be a baseline for credibility: anybody who's there (wherever the "there" happens to be) is credible, and anyone who's not there is not credible, no matter how much experience they have. Fine. By that standard, "I worked in construction one time" has to rate at least as low as "I was a general in Iraq up until last year." Probably less, don't you think? Let's be honest. And consistent. That's the standard CY has established. He's not even going with the measurement of someone who was there (and, by God, why can't we send Michael Yon over there to measure that door?!); he's
making stuff up.
I don't care about how many nails he has pounded in the past; using his standard of proof, the fact that he is not actually standing in front of that door with a tape measure invalidates his speculation about the size.
Let's follow this through to the end. If the generals aren't to be listened to, why on God's green Earth should we listen to the bloviating of CCG, CY, or any of the other people here who have never been to Iraq (and quite possibly couldn't find it on a map)? They haven't been on the ground; what they say means nothing. Right? Isn't that the logic?
If
the generals who served in Iraq are to be dismissed because they are not right this minute standing in the Green Zone, then the lip-flappage of those who've never even served means less than nothing.
Second, there was no subject change. This "subject change" bushwah is something you wingnuts fall back on when you can't think of anything else to say. It's as predictable as the change of seasons. Unless there's an actual subject change, you just wind up looking like someone who has just pissed his pants in public.
Posted by: nunaim at November 03, 2007 06:40 PM (7p+pM)
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I'm done with you nunaim.
Unlike Iraq, which has multiple religious sects, tribal influences, political vendettas, and cultural differences that change constantly,
a 2'8" door is always a 2'8" door. That is finite and does not change; it is not a 5' door one day and 1'11" door a month or a year later.
You seem to exist only to argue and so you are welcome to do so: somewhere else.
You will not be missed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 03, 2007 09:24 PM (HcgFD)
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I am sure nunaim can still read here, even if he can't reply, so one parting shot for the lefty who can't figure out that a door doesn't change size.
As far as the generals go, we're taking the word of a general
who is in-theatre right now as opposed to the words of generals
who left the theatre months or in some cases years ago.
In fact, one of those generals who has already left is the one responsible for the situation that the one that's there now had to clean up!
nunaim obviously looks at last month's paper for the weather report as well, rather than today's.
Good day, nunaim. I said
good day, and it is a good day, cause I won't have to put up with you anymore.
Posted by: C-C-G at November 04, 2007 02:52 PM (PGjzz)
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October 24, 2007
How It Ends
"We've won the war."
"The news out of Iraq just keeps getting worse."
Writing at his blog, Jules Crittenden, a Boston Herald editor and columnist notes the continuing failure of another media organization, the Associated Press, to also honestly deal with evolving conditions on the group in Iraq that have seen both Iraqi civilian deaths and U.S. military deaths drop in recent months.
In his new home at the Weekly Standard, Dean Barnett notes the plunging casualties:
The results of the surge, or "the escalation" as Harry Reid derisively called it, have been obvious in the Icasualties.org numbers. Before the surge, a bad month would claim the lives of roughly 3,000 Iraqi civilians and security force members. In February '07, the exact number was 3,014 Iraqi casualties. In March, the figure was 2,977. As the surge began to have its effects, that number dropped to 1674 in August. In September, with the surge taking full effect, the numbers showed a profound change--the Iraqi death toll plunged to 848.
Happily, September's figures don't appear to be an aberration. October has seen 502 Iraqi casualties so far. If the trend continues though the end of October, the final number should be around 650 for the entire month. That represents better than an 80 percent improvement from the war's nadir.
YOU'D THINK THIS would be a big story. After all, the mainstream media makes such a show of "supporting the troops" at every turn, you'd think it would rush to report the amazing story of our soldiers accomplishing what many observers declared "impossible" and "unwinnable" not so long ago.
But the mainstream media can't actually support the troops, can they?
Despite the onionskin-thin layers of nuance favored by those on the extreme edge of the progressive movement, the leadership (but not the rank and file) of the Democrat Party, and the editorial offices of many newsrooms, in real-life, supporting the troops really does mean supporting the mission.
The platitude of those that claim "we support the troops, but not the war," is an empty one; analogous to claiming that they support doctors, but not practicing medicine on certain patients even if they have the same disease.
"Iraqis? No. Why don't you go treat those people in Darfur instead..."
And so we get stories like the latest from APÂ’s Steven R. Hurst noted by Crittenden, where every possible silver lining is discarded in worship of the cloud.
We get editors that would rather torpedo their careers than admit they were wrong.
We get columnists that refuse to concede to hope.
And of course, we get faked massacres, fauxtography, gross inaccuracies, false premises, buried stories and preferrential treatment for fellow defeatists, all because those multiple layers of reporters, fact-checkers, and editors are determined to craft a message that they can be comfortable with publishing, that echoes their values and their beliefs of how the world should work.
In that world, a bumbling, semi-articulate President with approval ratings in the 30s, that has made on mistake after another related to the war, simply cannot be in charge when we win a war that they do not support, because of him.
As they have told us repeatedly: This. Is. Bush's. War.
They might be able to do a better job moderating their disdain for the military if it was simply run by the right POTUS; just preferably not a simpering idiot from Texas, or at least not a Republican one.
But as much as he is detested in newsrooms and dining rooms across America, George W. Bush is the President of the United States, and because of this unpalatable fact, it is simply unfathomable to the media and theri supporters on the fringe left that General Petraeus and the soldiers under him could shift strategies to take advantage of and exploit shifting public opinions in Iraq to execute a counterinsurgency doctrine that has Sunni and Shia joining forces with the U.S. and Iraqi security forces to stamp out criminal gangs, insurgents, rogue militias, and terrorists at what seems like an exponential rate.
We find ourselves in late October of 2007 with a war that, while not "over" in terms of ending all violence and all terror attacks, is "over" in that there is little doubt who the winner of the conflict will be.
There will not be a sectarian ""civil war" in Iraq, perhaps best evidenced by the fact that the media—excuse me, actual reporters in Iraq, not plaintive Times editorialists—have quietly let the claim die. Just as quietly, they have stopped wondering if Iraqi security forces will be able to hold together, and instead focus on corruption in the higher ranks.
At the present rate, the only way the media could shift goalposts faster is if the crane moving the goalposts was attached to Jeff Gordon's stock car.
While the opinion of the Iraqi people has drastically changed in past months and they seem to see the outcome being decided in their favor and sooner rather than later, the world media, led by the U.S. media, is refusing to acknowledge the possibility that the outcome of the war (if not the end of the counterinsurgency effort) may be decided before President Bush leaves office, making him the victor.
While the security forces of Iraq and allied nations seem to be turning/defeating the insurgency in Iraq, we are having considerably less success fighting an insurgent media that refuses to yield ground—unless forced every step of the way—by what they consider an unpleasant reality. The dead-enders of the Iraqi insurgency will likely meet their end via a bullet from Iraqi soldiers, policemen, or the growing number of civilians styled as "concerned citizens."
Some of the insurgent media is being "killed off" in rather spectacular blaze of glory, and some dead-ender media companies may one day collapse utterly for being unwilling to change. That admitted, most journalists, if for no other reason than their personal bottom lines, will eventually begrudgingly admit success, or at least change the subject.
Like the terrorists our soldiers fight, the biased media doesnÂ’t have to like being defeated. Sometimes "winning hearts and minds" amounts to just beating them enough to take the fight out of them and focus their efforts elsewhere, which is already occurring on newspaper front pages.
This is the way "Bush's War" will end in the media: not with a bang, but with a whimper.
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1
Bob, go to Drudge. He says he's obtained transcripts of the conversations between Beauchamp and Foer (& TNR editorial staff). Interesting stuff, but nothing we didn't already know. The question is, how did he get them, and who does the leak benefit? This line makes me think the editors might be trying to save face, and present themselves as exemplars of journalistic ethics:
"The editors respond that, "we just can't, in good conscience, continue to defend the piece" without an explanation, but Beauchamp responds only that he "doesn't care what the public thinks."
So is the leaker a TNR staffer, the editors or does Beauchamp long for another fifteen minutes? I'll leave it to you to delve deeper. Oh, and keep up the good work.
Posted by: Granddaddy Long Legs at October 24, 2007 12:26 PM (klw4o)
2
Indeed, the NYTimes is now entering TNR territory with its abject denial of reality.
Several years ago, when The SCO Group launched its lawsuits against Novell and IBM, many in the open source community looked at the hard facts and realized the reality was 180 degrees out of phase with SCO's complaints. I predicted then that SCO's outcome would be a complete and total collapse (although many in the news media, including predominant Forbes magazine editors, felt a SCO victory was most likely). Simply put, an organization cannot survive in complete opposition to the facts. Last month, SCO went from a slightly increasing stock with hopes for a new product strategy and potential long-shot litigation settlement to bankruptcy with liquidation most likely given licensing fees obligated to Novell.
TNR is now imploding as many of us have expected. This is quite unfortunate as CanWest didn't respond in time, cleaning house and protecting their investment. It's too late now; TNR will only exist as a warning to others to not stonewall in times where serious internal error and incompetence has been uncovered. Hint to CanWest: The executive that got you into the mess really isn't a good choice for getting you out. It's probably time to re-assess CanWest management as they didn't seem to correctly assess the risks with TNR, and have had numerous other problems relating to executives with an ideological conflict of interest.
The collapse of the NYTimes is even more fascinating to watch. Unlike some analysts that predict they can milk a few more years out of the mess, those familiar with the history of these catastrophic events know that these things pick up speed at the end. Unless an outside party takes over control in the next half-year, it too will survive only as a case study of how not to run a news organization.
Posted by: redherkey at October 24, 2007 12:47 PM (kjqFg)
3
completely off topic, but may be of interest
http://drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
Posted by: Boss429 at October 24, 2007 12:49 PM (a+Mxg)
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I was aware of the docs Drudge has posted, and ironically, he may have them because someone decided to leak the results of a FOIA request I had sent in, asking for these docs specifically. These are the results was expecting back this week.
I'm somewhat irritated someone in the Army leaked my exclusive to Drudge (I had been assured I was the only person to even ask for these by the FOIA office), but I guess what matters is that the truth came out.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 24, 2007 01:01 PM (WwtVa)
5
The New Republic's website (including its house blog, "The Plank") has
its own search engine.
Search Blogs (10/24/07 2:00 PM)
You searched for the word(s): Beauchamp
Sorry, we were unable to find any results using your search terms. Please change your search terms and try again.
How it ends.
Posted by: AMac at October 24, 2007 01:02 PM (unw9+)
Posted by: Twok at October 24, 2007 01:13 PM (M24Cv)
7
When liberals say they support the troops but not the mission, they are not intentionally dissembling. They are merely stating their belief that individual life has value, and they therefore "support the troops" by trying to keep individual soldiers alive through bringing an end to the conflict.
This, of course, reduces a soldier's value (or anyone's value for that matter) to nothing but a continued heartbeat. They give no value to the troops' sacrifice for the good of the nation, because they care little for the nation, and are actually contemptuous of it. When they claim that they honor the soldier's service to his country, THAT'S when they're lying.
Posted by: ss at October 24, 2007 01:32 PM (T1l1O)
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Instapundit seems to infer Drudge's transcript came from someone within TNR. The transcript, however, appears to be an Army document - unless TNR is starting to use military time and date notation. Note also the file name "Misconduct_4/1lD_Beauchamp_17Jul07". Doesn't look like a file name TNR would use.
I wonder if the TNR folks knew they were being recorded?
Posted by: Dave Calder at October 24, 2007 01:47 PM (uGeeX)
9
Reading through the transcript PDFs, I'd have to suggest that Foer is in serious trouble. I was laughing pretty hard at the first transcript until I reached Foer's implied threats to Beauchamp's wife's safety, e.g. "...your wife is involved in this...I don't want her to get hurt in all of this." Maybe they can get Wilford Brimley aka William Devasher to play Foer in upcoming film version of "The News Firm".
For those from TNR and CanWest reading the posts, it's time to move onward as your association with this organization is going to taint your resume. Two words should sum this up for you: Enron Accountant (I know two that have had to find alternate careers or work for well less than their experience justifies as nobody wants any association with that ethical meltdown).
At the same time, it's refreshing to see the maturity and seriousness taken by the military in this matter. LTC Glaze's letter to Beauchamp clearly speaks to the character of leadership we have in Iraq.
Posted by: redherkey at October 24, 2007 01:50 PM (kjqFg)
10
I'm somewhat irritated someone in the Army leaked my exclusive to Drudge
Perhaps someone at TNR caught wind of the pending release and this was merely a pre-emptive strike to prevent you from getting the scoop. I'm sure you can imagine how that would have chafed.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 24, 2007 02:00 PM (gMIZD)
11
The frequency of bad news associated with the Iraq war will not decline during our lifetime. The media are still reporting negative news about the Vietnam war, however peripherally associated.
Look, for example, for increases in stories about veterans' jobs, disabilities, medical problems, psychological problems and syndromes; and increases in stories about how the Pentagon has changed this, that or the other thing in response to "lessons learned," or on the other hand, how the Pentagon has yet to learn any lessons whatsoever. Look also for reportage of every single stubbed toe and crime in Iraq for the next three generations. Finally look for all the stories about the continuing international presence, either in the form of coalition advisors or UN peace keepers.
Posted by: hovie at October 24, 2007 02:07 PM (BQDdu)
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With cautions optimism, I propose that a meme be started that the victory in Iraq, when acknowledged, be known as "Bush's Victory"
Posted by: Soylent Grey at October 24, 2007 02:08 PM (Xb5dk)
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When liberals say they support the troops but not the mission, they are not intentionally dissembling.
I wished I could believe that, but frankly I don't. Suppose someone said that he supports homosexuals, but not homosexual marriage. Would lefties buy that position?
Posted by: Occam's Beard at October 24, 2007 02:11 PM (MBOgW)
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Given the absolute, inexcusable, yet ongoing media distortions re Iraq, based on a demented antipathy to GWB, couldn't some outsider startup do wonderfully well by honestly reporting real news? Recruit a bunch of 18 - 20 year old interns, train 'em in the basics, send 'em out... no CSJ or other phonies need apply.
The New York Times dates from 1850. If it exists through 2012, we'll be surprised.
Posted by: John Blake at October 24, 2007 02:15 PM (eKmkQ)
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Naaah, it wasn't really Bush's victory. Bush held his nerve, yes, but he kept the wrong people in command in Iraq for too long. The victory belongs to our men and women in uniform, and to those who will not return to share in it.
But above all, the victory belongs to those Iraqis, who, generations hence, will have a chance to live without fear or terror, because they finally stood up. For all the valor of our men and women, we could have done this without the Iraqis.
Posted by: section9 at October 24, 2007 02:23 PM (H6lGz)
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So was it FDR's victory in WWII, up to the day he died, even though he presided over a number of hideous disasters, most of them avoidable? Of course it was, just as it will be Bush's despite his failures. To say otherwise is to presume the possibility of presidential perfection in wartime.
Enough second-guessing already. The war in Iraq is working, despite the incredible degree of difficulty imposed by modern sensibilities, and at least Bush is a first guesser (stole that from Dennis Miller). Courage of his convictions and all that.
Posted by: Uncle Mikey at October 24, 2007 02:37 PM (utjQw)
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All these docs are coming up 404. Anyone keep copies?
Posted by: Pablo at October 24, 2007 02:52 PM (yTndK)
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I find the New York Times Editorial Board's statement to be perfectly consistent with what Greyhawk's, if you consider that they are not on the same side of the war.
Posted by: Evil Bob at October 24, 2007 03:02 PM (rnl+u)
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I think it is likely that the Drudge documents were leaked by somone at TNR rather than from a military source. Sure, they may have all (even the transcripts, perhaps) originally been in the hands of the military, but, as the transcripted phone conversation makes clear, Beauchamp intended to authorize his attorney to obtain all the military documents regarding his case and turn them over to TNR. Someone at TNR could have easily then passed them on to Drudge -- the rats are ready to jump from that sinking ship.
Posted by: Burke at October 24, 2007 04:20 PM (v/b5m)
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Heck. The creaky old media dinosaurs can't even get their focus off of W's TANG years. The world is passing them by.
The networks, the newspapers, the cable new networks: they're akin to 8-Track Tapes. Nobody listens to them anymore.
When Bush makes a post-Presidency trip to Iraq, and is greeted as a hero, I expect there will be no New York Times to bury the story.
Posted by: Korla Pundit at October 24, 2007 04:45 PM (FHlAi)
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The NYT are journalistic dead enders. Its starting to show in their fiscal performance as well.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 24, 2007 05:17 PM (gqU4X)
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Malkin/Hot Air and Jawa have them, Pablo.
Posted by: Dan Collins at October 24, 2007 05:30 PM (JSYrn)
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Pshaw! When Iraq gets a space program *then* it'll be over. /sarc
Posted by: urthshu at October 24, 2007 09:14 PM (bFqDX)
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Before declaring victory, shouldn't you discuss how we've won in terms of the US government's official goals for the war in Iraq? Perhaps it's obvious that we're winning, but this seems like an important step. Some of your readers might not be familar with them.
OUR NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR VICTORY IN IRAQ:
Victory in Iraq is Defined in Stages
Short term, Iraq is making steady progress in fighting terrorists, meeting political milestones, building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.
Medium term, Iraq is in the lead defeating terrorists and providing its own security, with a fully constitutional government in place, and on its way to achieving its economic potential.
Longer term, Iraq is peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism.
{The system will not allow posting the URL, but you can Google it.}
Posted by: Fabius Maximus at October 24, 2007 09:35 PM (z19WP)
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Fabius, I post links in comments all the time. Just follow standard HTML formatting (i.e. an "a href=" tag) and it works just fine.
If ya don't know HTML, well... Google it! -lol-
Posted by: C-C-G at October 24, 2007 09:52 PM (ysloH)
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You are being unfair. To the NYT, the situation is getting worse. To the Democrats, the situation is getting worse. To the AQ, the situation is getting worse. To OBL, the situation is getting worse. It all depends on which side you are rooting for. The NYT editorial board is just being truthful. To them the worst thing that could happen is for us to win in Iraq. So for them, the situation in Iraq is getting worse.
Posted by: ic at October 24, 2007 10:39 PM (NM7Uv)
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Someone asked me what victory in the War on Terror meant and I said "When the left in this Country starts telling our enemies that, without reservation, they will now be joining the American Right in seeking their absolute eradication. Or surrender." Then we will have victory. But then I realized that such a victory is truly illusory. I guess I'll have to settle for a true, freedom-based democracy in Iraq, and among those neighbors who might wish to follow. Such a victory will have to serve.
Posted by: George Clarke at October 25, 2007 11:52 PM (29kI6)
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October 23, 2007
Re-tell News
I was rather amused by some of the comments made by bloggers and commenters from the community-based reality yesterday in response to Michael Yon's
Resistance is Futile. Many seemed eager to dismiss Yon as a partisan with an agenda, or dismissed his work as anecdotal in nature only.
In their minds, it is obvious that wire services, network and cable television news channels and major newspapers are providing "better" and "more accurate" news out of Iraq than embedded journalist-bloggers such as Yon, Totten, Roggio, Aradolino, Emanuel, and Johannes.
Those that would continually downplay the accounts from these citizen-journalists make the argument that these men are only reporting anecdotes of what they see with their own eyes, and therefore cannot be trusted to present "the big picture."
Really?
With all of the citizen-journalists listed above, you are typically getting first-hand reports from people at the scene of the news. With a few notable exceptions, you will not get that from most western news agencies operating in Iraq.
When you see a story by a Western reporter bylined in Baghdad, in the overwhelming supermajority of instances you are not getting a firsthand account of what he or she saw. Wire services and news agencies send out local Iraqi reporters called "stringers" that have unknown allegiances, alliances, competencies, and track records, to do the field work of reporting. They take (and occasionally stage) pictures, talk to witnesses (or make them up), and compose a rough account of the events (or completely fabricate them) for the agency they work for. These stringers then turn over the rough-draft information to "reporters" who write news accounts on events they have not witnessed, relying on information they often cannot verify.
This is the normal state of affairs of media reporting in Iraq. Those who have their names on many stories aren't reporters, they're essentially transcriptionists who have very little idea at all if the stories they report are true, or just "truthy."
So you tell me who is providing the better news: is it the guy relating what he can see, or the guy relaying a story he can't verify?
Now consider the fact that the "big picture" so many rely on is built out of hundreds of accounts where some or all of the information being presented as the truth is uncorroborated or unverified by the writer with his name on the byline, and you start to understand how there can be such a huge discrepancy between what citizen-journalists and soldiers blogging from Iraq see, and what the "professionals" relay in our media outlets.
The dirty truth of modern mass-market journalism is that it is retail news, and re-told news, and often anything but reporting.
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What sort of "big picture" are we getting from the hotel journalists who push away from the bar to attend press conferences in the Green Zone where they regard everything they're told as either U.S. spin or a pack of lies ?
Posted by: Banjo at October 23, 2007 10:04 AM (1DQ52)
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Who are you gonna believe? Yon's lying eyes, or 50 miles removed rigorously fact checked rumorporting from Jamil Hussein?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 23, 2007 10:16 AM (gqU4X)
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"overwhelming supermajority"??
Posted by: iconoclast at October 23, 2007 10:54 AM (TzLpv)
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So why do these journalists never venture from their hotels? Why do they have to rely on local stringers for reports and photographs?
Could it possibly be that the greater part of Iraq is simply far too dangerous for a Western journalist to venture out and do proper reporting? More than four years after Iraq was "liberated" by the US?
Posted by: Max at October 23, 2007 10:54 AM (VRb5p)
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Could it possibly be that the greater part of Iraq is simply far too dangerous for a Western journalist to venture out and do proper reporting?
Better booze at the al-Rashid than the stuff the troopers cook up in humvee radiators. Reporters ain't stupid - they know where the good hooch is.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 23, 2007 11:03 AM (gqU4X)
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Max (10:54am) --
Could it possibly be that the greater part of Iraq is simply far too dangerous for a Western journalist to venture out and do proper reporting?
In all seriousness, the answer is Yes, Iraq is extremely dangerous for Western reporters. That has to be figured into the mix.
Equally obviously, it is not the only factor at work, or the discrepancy that C.Y. is writing about would not exist.
Off-topic, perhaps, compare the stories that Bill Roggio filed today at "The Long War Journal" on Pakistan (Bhutto, NWFP, ISI, Taliban) with what you read on these subjects in your favorite newspaper. Which give the reader a better appreciation of the tactical and strategic forces at play there?
Posted by: AMac at October 23, 2007 11:06 AM (Djzc+)
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AMac
I read Bill Roggio's story on Pakistan. It's a detailed and comprehensive analysis of a complex situation. Whether I agree with his prescription is a different matter, but that's neither here or there. When you ask me to compare his story with what I read on these subjects in my favorite newspaper, you are perhaps assuming that I live in America, and depend on American media. Not so. I live in Europe, and I would have access to media that regularly give excellent and detailed coverage of these topics.
In my opinion, the problem with American media is not (as is often claimed in this and similar blogs) that it's dominated by left-wingers, defeatists, self-hating Americans etc. etc. The problem is that it's dominated by trashy content, entertainment news, trivia of all kinds - a complete distraction from the real issues.
Posted by: Max at October 23, 2007 11:30 AM (VRb5p)
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Geez, Max reads newspapers that are actually more anti American than the New York Times.
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at October 23, 2007 11:45 AM (Lgw9b)
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Thanks for the thoughtful response, Max (11:30am).
I think both sets of potential problems that you catalog in your second paragraph are, unfortunately, real contributors to the unfortunate state of much of American media.
Posted by: AMac at October 23, 2007 01:15 PM (Djzc+)
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"I live in Europe, and I would have access to media that regularly give excellent and detailed coverage of these topics."
Unless you get your news from France 2 (Al Dura) or the BBC (anti-Israel).
But I agree, the US media is "dominated by trashy content, entertainment news, trivia of all kinds - a complete distraction from the real issues." Our media is ad fueled so they have to sell the spectacle. Which is sad really.
Posted by: Dan Irving at October 24, 2007 07:29 AM (zw8QA)
Posted by: download free mp3 song at October 29, 2007 11:51 PM (DaFy+)
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October 19, 2007
ABC News Credits Dems for Limbaugh Fundraiser; Reporter Botches Mission of MC-LEF Due to Laziness
Don Surber does an excellent job of reminding us why Americans have
so little faith in the media:
Why do people absolutely detest the media? Is it the laziness? Is it the incompetence? Is it the bias?
This report from the ABC News blog shows all 3 elements. The headline: ”Bidding Over $2M for Dems Anti-Rush Letter”
It is not until Paragraph 7 that ABC bothers to mention that Rush put the letter on eBay.
As Matt Drudge correctly pointed ABC was crediting the perpetrators instead of the victim, Rush. That letter was not written to raise money — it was written to get a man fired for broadcasting opinions that 41 Democratic Senators wanted censured. He dares to support a war that a Democratic Senate authorized in 2002.
[snip]
Now ABC credits these anti-constitutional senators with the $4.2 million Rush raised — half of it from his own pocket.
Not one of those 41 senators — all of whom enjoy salaries that place them in the top 3% of the country — has matched that gift with 21 cents, let alone the $2.1 million Rush will give.
ABC News knows what it can do with its blog entry.
Perhaps not surprisingly, crediting Democrats for something they didn't do isn't the only display of bias and incompetence in this ABC blog entry.
The content of the seventh paragraph shows that ABC didn't even both to do the basic research necessary about the charity benefiting from Limbaugh's fundraiser:
All proceeds from the auction of the letter will go to the Marine Corps - Law Enforcement Foundation, which distributes aid to the families to the children of fallen Marines on behalf of law enforcement officers.
First--and this is just a pet peeve of mine-- all of Marine Corps - Law Enforcement Foundation should be in the link. That's just sloppy, amateur work.
Second, the content of the ABC News claim is inaccurate. ABC claims that MC-LEF "distributes aid to the families to the children of fallen Marines on behalf of law enforcement officers."
It would have taken reading all of seven sentences to get the basic mission of the foundation right:
The recent war in Iraq has certainly illuminated America�s commitment to freedom. We are reminded that freedom is not free. The price is great. No one knows that better than the left-behind sons and daughters of America�s fallen heroes.
Through the continuous support of our donors, we have distributed aid with a value of more than $29,000,000.00 to eligible children. This assistance was primarily rendered to children of Marines or Federal law enforcement personnel who were killed on duty or died under extraordinary circumstances while serving our country at home or abroad.
It would have taken ABC News perhaps 10-15 seconds to read that far.
Apparently ABC News felt that it wasn't worth spending those extra 10-15 seconds to get even one fact of their story correct.
Update: ABC is also censoring comments on the blog (mine, among others) for content that is anything other than profane, simply rewriting or deleting comments they do not like on apparent whims.
The former gatekeepers do not like to be told that they are wrong.
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1
Magic word: ABC, Dumb as a sack of rocks.
Posted by: Scrapiron at October 19, 2007 11:19 PM (d/RyS)
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Scrapiron said "
Magic word: ABC, Dumb as a sack of rocks."
You don't know the half of it. They're butchering and deleting comments like mad on their blog. Some of those posts were mine.
Here's poster Reggie on the situation. "
It is crap looking glass. I don't like what a lot of some have said tonight, and I know from the insults virtually no one (as a lot of the traffic here came from Drudge) liked what I said. But why are we spending time here saying anything if it is going to be removed or edited. What a joke."
That post has since been deleted. (I have the ability to save a webpage and I'm not afraid to use it.)
I've quoted
a scathing comment from Timewaster on Don Surber's blog.
The original post from Timewaster may, or may not, still be up on the ABC blog.
Posted by: Looking Glass at October 20, 2007 01:39 AM (42wFw)
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A lot of the left extreme blogs are marching to the same spin that Rush is apologizing to the left by paying penance for his error.
The Kos kids even have a poll up about it.
Posted by: Lurker of sorts at October 20, 2007 03:48 AM (1aM/I)
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should be in the link. that's just sloppy, amateur work.
Or very very intentional.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 20, 2007 07:16 AM (6Yy5p)
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Over the past generation, Americans have lost faith in the media. The ABC column shows one very good reason why.
Tens of millions of Americans witnessed these events first-hand, from hearing Rush's 'phony soldiers' remark - in real time, in context - through the demagoguery of his critics to the auction and its aftermath. We know more than the reporter does, and can judge for ourselves his accuracy and professional discipline.
It's fair to say that ABC deserves a D or an F.
There was a time when reporters were the gatekeepers. We knew what we knew only because they allowed us to know it. Those days are gone. News consumers often have access to the same or better sources than reporters do. We are often better and more deeply informed than they are.
The credibility of CBS and the New York Times disintegrated in sudden and public conflagrations, but this kind of column reveals something just as ruinous: the slow, inevitable rot of arrogance, incompetence, and bias.
Posted by: lyle at October 20, 2007 07:27 AM (0LZe8)
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This is not surprising. First there was a near media back out of this story. Little Green Footballs did a great job of covering it...
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=27598_Reuters_Notices_the_Rush_Limbaugh_Story_-_Update-_New_York_Times_Blatantly_Lies&only
Then, as you point out, when they do cover it, it is blatantly biased.
I don't think it matters much. Rush has a huge microphone and the media is no longer monolithic so of they want to lie about and ignore the story, it will merely give the new media, like this site, an opportunity to report on it before them. People aren't stupid. They can smell a rat. There was a great piece in the American Thinker about this.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/10/the_medias_dilemma.html
Of course, the Dems, if they are foolish, will try and scream Fairness Doctrine in light of this incident. I hope they do because nothing is a better issue for the reps than the Fairness Doctrine. Here is how I see that playing out.
http://proprietornation.blogspot.com/2007/10/can-conservatives-turn-rush-fiasco-into.html
Posted by: Mike Volpe at October 20, 2007 10:46 AM (xGGYx)
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When I first heard Harry Reid's comments I thought "What a fool!". Fool he may be but he's not stupid. He probably knew full well that he'd have the MSM running interference for him and spining it to his advantage.
Posted by: Tbird at October 20, 2007 12:12 PM (2XO+i)
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Of course, dems follow the left wing tendency of rewritting history to fit their dogma.
Posted by: Mats at October 20, 2007 12:14 PM (Txg4w)
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Confederate Yankee--you are way too kind ABC. Cordiality is one thing, passivity is another.
ABC wasn't merely lazy. They weren't simply wrong. The truth is of no importance to them.
The blog post in question illustrates a hostility toward the truth.
Maybe you'd prefer to chalk it up to being lazy or uninformed. I prefer words like malice, malevolence, maliciousness, meanness, spitefulness, venomousness, and viciousness. I could be wrong but I'm not.
Let me ask you this; Why even write the post in the first place if the authors interest is such that the minimal of fact checking is of little desire?
The gall is inconceivable.
Posted by: Andy B at October 20, 2007 12:37 PM (q1S2A)
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You know, I try to be charitable with those I disagree with. But this is utterly foul.
Posted by: Grey Fox at October 20, 2007 04:29 PM (AP5e0)
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Didja ever notice that the guilty dog barks first? Kinda like when the right wing was tabbed by some First Lady as a "vast conspiracy?" I think ABC had its membership papers all filled out for the opposite side of the vast conspiracy thingy-bob...and maybe they upped the ante.
Pretty neat that they're dealing with the likes of Rush who has more savvy and common sense than the whole left wing put together.
I say: let the lefties rip, and all they'll come home with is torn trousers. They are working so hard to sink themselves...let's let 'em.
Posted by: Lee W. Dodson at October 20, 2007 05:46 PM (2mrFg)
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The only thing the dhimmi's did was violate the constitution and put forth a Communist/Nazi style rant against a private citizen. Who will take these traitor to task and demand they all resign from the Senate, or better who will file charges and put them in jail? Dirty Harry Reid and company went beyond stupidity.
Posted by: Scrapiron at October 20, 2007 06:30 PM (d/RyS)
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I sent each and every one of Reid's office a fax asking him if he was going to match Rush's contribution. Not really expecting an answer!
Posted by: Bob at October 20, 2007 06:41 PM (pE8st)
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Comments that I made earlier are completely removed.
This is SOP for these liberal leftist twits that gatekeep any comment that may offend their ilk.
If I recall accurately, I do believe that any time I have posted a comment to this ABC blog it has always been removed.
Just reinforces our position regarding free speech and further demonstrates their willingness to squelch any opinion that does not tilt toward their inbred ideology.
Just like dogs who return to eat their own vomit ..... they just cannot help themselves.
Posted by: D.T. Miller at October 21, 2007 04:22 AM (5Wu5r)
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I would have no problem with ABC removing comments that were profane, highly inflammatory or off-topic. Most corporate blogs meeting those standards, as do many other blogs.
It is when they start removing relevant, on-topic, non-inflammatory comments, and appear to be removing reasonable comments simply because they do not like how the logical criticism undermines their position, that I get irritated.
If you run a blog with comments section, you have an obligation to allow a reasonable level of discourse. To so heavily censor critical comments as ABC News has done in this instance is the mark of amateurs.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 21, 2007 08:28 AM (HcgFD)
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To so heavily censor critical comments as ABC News has done in this instance is the mark of amateurs.
Or professional propagandists...
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 21, 2007 08:33 AM (6Yy5p)
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Last night I turned on ABC myself. From listening to them you could almost believe that a man-child had drawn us into a bloody, expensive quagmire where there's no hope of reconciling factions who loathe eachother, and that only Iran stood to profit. They painted a picture of greed, sadism, and corruption run amok. They didn't even mention the plentiful schools that have been painted. The nerve of some people!
Posted by: Claude Nuggets at October 21, 2007 12:06 PM (dB5s8)
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Claude,
As you so aptly point out, ABC is quite full of it. Please stay.
Cordially...
Posted by: Claude at October 21, 2007 12:33 PM (Ohkx7)
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A compliant congress has given Bush everything he asked for. That would have been enough, nay more than enough. The war would long be over. The only thing missing was that elixir, the Special Sauce if you will: support. ABC, C.N.N., NYT and their liberal cohort refuse to support the troops. They have sapped the will our troops. There is much blood on the hands of MoveOn.
Posted by: Clarl Nugent at October 21, 2007 04:23 PM (r7W6b)
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So, Congress can win a war? Interesting.
Posted by: Pablo at October 21, 2007 04:29 PM (yTndK)
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There is much blood on the hands of MoveOn.
True that.
Posted by: toby928 at October 22, 2007 09:17 AM (PD1tk)
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October 18, 2007
When Journalists Attack
Quite a lot of people are ripping the behavior of Dallas, TX KDFW-TV reporter Rebecca Aquilar right now and deservedly so. The journalist
ambushed 70-year-old Army veteran James Walton as he got into his car, and bullied him into tears. She has since been
suspended.
Why?
Walton is owner of Able Walton Machine & Welding in West Dallas, a salvage business where he lives in an upstairs apartment, that has been robbed no less than 42 times.
On September 22, at about 2:00 AM, Walton shot a man who was breaking in through a pried-open window. The man later died. Three weeks later on October 14 at 9:00 AM, Walton shot and killed another thief who had broken in.
After each shooting, Dallas police, as a matter of policy, processed each firearm used as evidence for the grand jury, meaning that a victimized Walton had to purchase yet another firearm with which to defend his life and besieged property.
It was as he was leaving the store after purchasing this replacement shotgun (a Remington according to the box markings) that Aquilar staged her ambush:
I'd ask you to note her choice of language, her obvious bias, accusatory tone and abrasiveness, and the careful positioning of her body between the car body and door, an old television reporter's trick that traps the victim as a hostage, so that he could neither exit the vehicle, nor close the door to leave in the vehicle.
Glenn Reynolds notes:
I was struck by reporter Rebecca Aguilar's body-language, literally standing over him in judgment with tailored suit and umbrella. The way she looked down, literally and figuratively, on an old man who had defended his life, entirely legally, and reduced him to tears seems to me to be representative of the worst stereotypes of Old Media.
Stereotypes become stereotypes because of behavior recreated and witnessed enough times that the behavior witnessed is thought to be a group norm.
I've witnessed it firsthand in the aftermath of an armed standoff with hostages. Minutes after the suspect surrendered himself, a television reporter with cameraman in tow came inside the building and started peppering the just-released hostages with questions, jabbing at them and I with a microphone. As news consumers, we've seen other instances of this ambush style of journalism, as other journalists have perfected it in both local and national media.
And there are instances where an ambush style of journalism is indeed warranted, such as confronting con artists or corrupt CEOs. But where journalists have failed the moral test is when they lost basic human empathy, and begin treating citizens as suspects, and victims as criminals, as Aguilar does here, without apparent remorse. This was horrific, but only grossly atypical in that the lopsided assault was broadcast in its entirety, and not edited.
It seems that what has happened to journalism is that far too many journalists have placed the importance of the story they would like to tell as the foremost thought in their minds, and made both facts and people subservient to that agenda. They've traded their empathy for an angle, and honest journalism for advocacy.
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Let me make a wild guess. The two dead perps were Hispanic.
Posted by: 1sttofight at October 18, 2007 10:56 AM (09fn4)
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I'd say the producer and other management that gave her this story have a trip to the woodshed comin' to them, too.
A 70 year old is forced to defend his home and his livelihood by killing somebody twice in three weeks. Do we send a reporter to go after a city council who ignores the crime problem? No, of course not, it's gun owner that's to blame here!
I'd like to think this is an infrequent occurrence, but my experience with local news here tells me it's a nationwide problem.
Posted by: ExUrbanKevin at October 18, 2007 10:59 AM (H3hpv)
3
Let me make a wild guess. The two dead perps were Hispanic.
While one of the dead criminals was Hispanic, I think you're jumping the gun stating that this journalistic assualt may be racially motivated.
As for sending a reporter to talk to Mr. Walton, I'd say that is expected, because the circumstances were indeed newsworthy. It is extraordinary that he was targeted for more than 40 break-ins, it is newsworthy that he was forced to shoot criminals twice, and extraordinary that those shooting happened in such a compressed period of time.
My argument is with how the interview was conducted.
Aquilar would have likely gotten a much better interview if she had thought to bring along a human soul (perhaps she could have borrowed one) so that she could have at least
faked empathy for what Mr. Walton has gone through. He would likely have been far more receptive to a reporter that was able to display at least a passing concern for what he has gone through.
Instead, Aquilar tries to make Mr. Walton into a thug, but in so doing, reveals that she is the monster. She's getting hte attention--and the
kind of attention--she deserves.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 18, 2007 11:15 AM (WwtVa)
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When you read between the lines here, it even becomes worse. He was ambushed at an Academy parking lot. Which means that they had to have been stalking him.
Posted by: Skip at October 18, 2007 12:04 PM (KSXNV)
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Maybe Aquilar wasn't motivated by the race of the shooting victims. But asking or assuming that as her motivation isn't as Confederate Yankee surmised, "jumping the gun."
I'm willing to bet Ms. Aquilar wouldn't be as in your face with an Hispanic shooter in the same situation. Her sympathies, I'm sure, lie not with the shooter but with the shooting victims[criminals]. Otherwise her abrasive, in your face, passion wouldn't have distorted her judgment, in my opinion.
Didn't she win an award as the Hispanic community's best journalist or something?
Posted by: Andy B at October 18, 2007 12:28 PM (q1S2A)
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I think one of the problems is that many have learned a technique and apply the technique no matter the circumstances. As you mentioned, the technique you use with a con artist is not the technique you use with a rescued hostage. Or rather, the technique ought to be different.
Ask any good trial lawyer - different witnesses are to be questioned differently.
Posted by: Mikey NTH at October 18, 2007 01:45 PM (O9Cc8)
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What I don't understand is how the reporter knew he would be in the Academy Sporting Goods parking lot in order to confront him? Did they follow him from home? If so, that is harassment -- he's not a government official or well-known CEO, he's a private citizen who the police said was within his rights.
He's also a businessman. Why not ask for an interview at his business/residence? Because he probably would tell them to get lost and they would lose the "ambush" impact. Disgraceful.
Posted by: capitano at October 18, 2007 01:49 PM (+NO33)
8
I live just north of Dallas. The second perp was white. While Ms aquilar got the axe, someone higher up had to approve of this airing. More than one head should roll here.
Posted by: Mr Kufr at October 18, 2007 03:22 PM (TOv/+)
9
And if Mr. Walton was killed by one of the intruders no one would have ever known. He would have been just another victim in an endless sea of violent crime that I guess we're just supposed to tollerate. Probably wouldn't even be newsworthy enough to get a mention in the Dallas paper. What a backwards world this is.
Posted by: dmartin at October 18, 2007 03:47 PM (NspXU)
10
I would like to see a poll:
What profession is the most despised in America?
Lawyer
Politician (or is that redundant)
News Reporter
70 Year Old Store Owner
Posted by: Mekan at October 18, 2007 04:11 PM (hm8tW)
11
I live in North Dallas too (Howdy Mr. Kufr), and Aquilar has always been an obnoxious reporter desperate to remind everybody she's hispanic.
She reads her voice overs & conducts interviews in the "whitest" accent you've ever heard...right up until she signs off. She says "Rebecca" in the same accent (like her last name is going to be Johnson or Smith), then emhasizes..AQ-EEE-LARRRR (roll those "R's" baby).
Good grief.
I'm pretty sure she was the inspiration for Family Guy's "Asian reporter, Trisha Takanawa."
Posted by: Lamontyoubigdummy at October 18, 2007 04:11 PM (ydAF3)
12
I can't stand these arrogant, snotty, uppity, liberal woman reporters.
What she said warranted a slap in the mouth and I'm only sorry the man didn't have his woman with him to tell "AQ-EEE-LARRRR" exactly that.
Posted by: Cindi at October 18, 2007 05:03 PM (asVsU)
13
Ask any good trial lawyer - different witnesses are to be questioned differently.
Posted by: Mikey NTH at October 18, 2007 01:45 PM I'm not sure there is such a thing.
Posted by: Stashiu3 at October 18, 2007 07:09 PM (pf8ao)
14
O/T --
Shattered Glass, the movie about Stephen Glass' serial fabrications in 27 of 41 of his articles published in The New Republic, is playing now on Independent Film Channel and will replay again at 1:15 a.m. Coincidentally, my wife rented it and we watched it last night (no baseball).
It is stunning how TNR has learned nothing. The DVD included commentary by the director and by Chuck Lane, who replaced Michael Kelly as editor. Most of the commentary dealt with how the movie script was pieced together from actual events and transcripts of recorded conversations. Considering how painful it must have been for Lane who confronted and fired Glass, they went to great lengths to detail the sources for everything and to describe amalgams of events and characters.
It doesn't present a very flattering picture of TNR then, and given its history and the lessons that should have been learned, even less flattering today. Interestingly, one of the checks that broke down was that Glass had a romantic relationship with a co-worker who had approval authority over his work and he built similar, non-romantic relationships with other fact checkers.
Remind you of anyone?
Posted by: capitano at October 18, 2007 08:39 PM (+NO33)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 19, 2007 08:30 AM (6Yy5p)
16
The video has been redacted.
Posted by: fretless at October 19, 2007 11:18 AM (twzGk)
17
Kufr....here are her higherups.
WE can voice our opposition to this kind of reporting with them.
(swiped from mypetjawa.mu.nu)
FOX4 News director Maria.Barrs@foxtv.com
FOX4 Vice President and General Manager Kathy.Saunders@foxtv.com
Main Telephone: 214.720.4444
Main e-Mail: kdfw@kdfwfox4.com
Dallas Newsroom: 214.720.3154
Dallas Newsroom Fax: 214.720-3263, 214.720.3333
Posted by: mrclark at October 19, 2007 01:01 PM (DzyqG)
18
Maybe she was thinking that that wonderful performance would earn her a job with Univision.
Sorry Rebecca, your award notwithstanding, you're a little too morena to appear on cable.
Posted by: John S. at October 19, 2007 06:09 PM (gq1+F)
19
The National Association of Hispanic Journalists is now defending Aquilar's conduct as "professional", which only goes to show you to what depths journalism has sunk.
To take a cue from Instapundit, maybe it's time for bloggers to start conducting ambush interviews of journalists and their bosses.
Posted by: pst314 at October 19, 2007 07:10 PM (lCxSZ)
20
Regarding the "professional conduct" of Rebecca Aguilar,who reduced an old man to tears, I am reminded of the question that brought down Joe McCarthy: Have you no decency?
Posted by: DJITMOTRoad-STHH at October 19, 2007 09:55 PM (OdPXf)
21
s time for bloggers to start conducting ambush interviews of journalists and their bosses.
We'll find out pretty quick that the 1st amendment isn't quite what we think it is ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 21, 2007 01:22 AM (6Yy5p)
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October 17, 2007
Media Laments Lost Opportunities in Iraq
Estes Thompson and Mike Baker of the Associated Press note that America's all volunteer military isn't taking advantage of opportunities
the way their predecessors did:
American troops killed their own commanders so often during the Vietnam War that the crime earned its own name - "fragging."
But since the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the military has charged only one soldier with killing his commanding officer, a dramatic turnabout that most experts attribute to the all-volunteer military.
[snip]
Both Roland and Anderson said today's all-volunteer military, compared with soldiers being forced into duty in Vietnam, is the primary reason why fragging attacks are almost nonexistent in Iraq and Afghanistan. The conditions in Iraq are also much less conducive to the crime, Roland said.
"There's not as much isolated operation," Roland said. "One of the things about Vietnam was the extremes of small-unit activity, where a squad or platoon would go out on patrol and it was just them and the jungle. They were out of sight of other Americans.
"In Iraq, you never know when a helicopter might be going over or a newsman comes along," he said.
You can almost feel their pain.
Update: Wretchard looks into what the "experts" cited in this story got wrong.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
04:26 PM
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1
How ignorant! These people do not have a clue.
Posted by: Sara at October 17, 2007 04:43 PM (hGL+y)
2
Actually, some media pinheads have gotten their chubbies on by charging that this volunteer military has shifted "friendly" fire from officers to journalists.
Not that that would be an entirely bad thing, mind you. But ridiculous in the event.
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at October 17, 2007 05:16 PM (L/ClK)
3
WTF are these idiots talking about? I was in the RVN for almost 2 tours and I never saw an officer fragged.
Posted by: 1sttofight at October 17, 2007 05:53 PM (09fn4)
4
Some officers that were leading their men to slaughter through they're ignorance were possibly fragged, in their quarters, not on the battle field. The Media as far as I'm concerned should be issued a shirt with a bulls eye on the back and a statement, 'Shoot me, I'm the enemy'. They have earned nothing less.
Posted by: Scrapiron at October 17, 2007 05:57 PM (AiJXe)
5
Like babykilling and nun raping, I imagine fragging was one of those things that happened a lot more in the liberal imaginations than in reality.
Posted by: SGT Jeff (USAR) at October 17, 2007 06:37 PM (yiMNP)
6
Rick,
After what they have printed about the military, if I were in the media and in Iraq, I do not think I would be putting ideas in the minds of troops who have lost buddies in the field. That whole campaign to smear the troops was not very well thought out.
Posted by: capitano at October 17, 2007 07:16 PM (+NO33)
7
That whole campaign to smear the troops was not very well thought out.
You assume that lefties are capable of intelligent thought. I've seen no evidence of such, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. One capable of intelligent thought would have checked to see if Glocks were used only by the Iraqi police, to cite but one example.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 17, 2007 07:47 PM (ufhAS)
8
It's clear that Winter Soldier Syndrome isn't limited to those that served in the military.
Liberal (adj.) [lib-er-uh / lib-ruhl] 1. a sufferer of grand delusions, usually manifesting on narcissistic personal behavior and nihilistic social outlook or intent, often combined with pathological lying and other deceitful behaviors; 2. one who is exceptionally bad at math and lacks a basic comprehension of probability; 3. an economic parasite.
Posted by: redherkey at October 17, 2007 07:49 PM (kjqFg)
9
Ahh, the good old days...Were they *ever* really that good?
I wonder if there is a term for "killing stupid reporters because they really P!$$ED me off?" I think I'd call it 'Fair and Balanced'.
Posted by: fretless at October 17, 2007 08:09 PM (UGwVK)
10
One wonders if some of the reporters' deaths in Iraq weren't due to the Armed Forces, but because the reporters blithely walked into danger assuming that the terrorists surely wouldn't harm
them, members of the media elite.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 17, 2007 08:32 PM (ufhAS)
11
Not that anyone here really cares, but "fragging" was indeed a real and hideous phenomena that claimed hundreds of U.S.-on-U.S. casualties (both dead, maimed, and wounded) during the demoralized final years of the American war in Vietnam (basically 1969-72).
The motives involved had less to do with incompetent leaders being removed by seasoned grunts (though such incidents certainly took place), and more to do with racial tension and stoned draftees vs hardnosed lifers. Most of these incidents took place in the rear, not in combat, where shared danger tended to put the drug and racial BS on the backburner.
Anyway, all this "fragging" stuff has been thoroughly documented over the years (see, for example, the official USMC histories of the role of the Marine Corps in the Vietnam War).
In other words, this subject is not a liberal invention. Sheesh!
Posted by: PITA at October 17, 2007 08:37 PM (18+Bi)
12
"
You can almost feel their pain."
Definitely not. They seem to be excreting a large brick, rasp-edged and hard-fired. PITA's doing the same thing, hence its acronym. Soon to be PRB for P**nf*l R*ct*l Bl**d*ng, caused by passing a cheese grater from admitting victory in Iraq.
Tuck's™ are recommended for soothing relief.
Posted by: G. Loater at October 17, 2007 08:47 PM (42wFw)
13
Hey, Mr. Loater. Only left a comment because was surprised that others here seem to have the idea that "fraggings" didn't take place in Vietnam, but are an invention of the Left.
Didn't say anything about Iraq. Incidentally, I interpreted the article in question as comparing the professionalism of the all-volunteer military in Iraq with the demoralized draftees of the latter days of the Vietnam War.
So, please, no more comments about excreting bricks and cheese graters and such. Weird.
Posted by: PITA at October 17, 2007 09:27 PM (18+Bi)
14
I was a Navy nurse for 2 tours in Viet Nam from late '69 through April '72. I agree with PITA. Most of the problems were spill-over from the same crap that was going on in the states at the time, especially the racial tensions. We also saw a huge increase in drug use, which caused no end of problems, even without the fraggings.
For those of you too young to remember what it was really like during those years, I suggest that you read up on it, and especially look at the newspapers at the time. The louder the hippies screamed brotherhood and love, the bigger the riots and the hotter our cities burned. We were as close to anarchy in this country as any time in our history. Those in the military were increasingly characterized by an unfriendly press as the enemy. I don't think I was ever angrier than I was when the orders came down that servicemen were no longer allowed to wear their uniforms in public--because of the danger to those who were serving. I come from a military family; that was a bitter pill to swallow.
It took years of dedication for us to rebuild our military into the proud force it is today. Those who want to reinstitute the draft want to wipe those years away and leave us with the mess it was after Viet Nam. Their motivation is just the same as it was back then.
It might help to remember that the military isn't above the problems of the society that produces it.
Posted by: saltydog at October 18, 2007 12:05 AM (uTZSB)
15
Can you substitute bs for the bad word?
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 18, 2007 12:37 AM (0pZel)
16
"Hundreds", PITA?
Would you care to provide actual evidence of that claim?
Or even factual backup for a claim of "scores"?
Do you know how many junior officers even SERVED in-country in Viet Nam? Or what percentage of them "hundreds" would be?
Apply some Preperation H for that brick of bull that just dropped out of your mouth.
Posted by: DaveP. at October 18, 2007 06:31 AM (mjjwA)
17
Yes, Dave, there were indeed "hundreds" of fraggings during the final demoralized days of the Vietnam War.
Documentation? Okay, let's turn to Chapter 4 of AMERICA IN VIETNAM by Guenter Lewy (a very pro-military book, by the way), which cites these numbers from a Congressional Investigation into U.S. Army fraggings in Vietnam: 126 incidents in 1969 (with 37 deaths), 271 incidents in 1970 (with 34 deaths), and 333 incidents in 1971 (with 12 deaths).
These are only U.S. Army fraggings in Vietnam. The U.S. Marine Corps also had its share (almost all were racial in motivation) in 1969-71, as documented in the official USMC histories of the Vietnam War.
Many rear areas were descending into anarchy in Vietnam in 1969-71. Hey, man, these were bad times for the country and the military. Race hatred, drug abuse, generational and cultural splits, ad naseum. One symptom was fragging. It was real. It was not an invention of the Left.
Posted by: PITA at October 18, 2007 08:03 AM (18+Bi)
18
FTA: "These people knew the war was pretty much lost, that they were going to be sacrificed." If this was the reason for the fragging incidents in Vietnam, then this means that soldiers in Iraq know that we are WINNING and they are NOT going to be sacrificed.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at October 18, 2007 08:40 AM (oC8nQ)
19
I served 14 months in Vietnam and my experience was pretty much as PITA described. Fragging was pretty much a threat confined to larger bases. As much as the MSM like to protray the war as one of the mindless slaughter of GI's, boredom was a larger factor in the breakdown of morale. A year on a base with nowhere to go and nothing to do would be about the same as a year in low-security prison. Only a fairly low percentage of the troops were actually in the field engaged in combat at any one time. The lower-ranked draftees and the generally higher-classed officers usually resented having to be with each other, sometimes with open hostility. Combine this depressing mood with drugs and alcohol and the results were as described. Fragging was indeed a fact of life, but it was generally a manifestation of social conflict than the tragic by-product of an evil, unjust war as portrayed by the media.
Posted by: willis at October 18, 2007 12:36 PM (jyN1i)
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October 13, 2007
Another Questionable Fake War Story
Via a reader in the comments of
the my most recent
TNR post, a story about a solider wounded and a squad virtually wiped out in an
apparent youth suicide bombing in Iraq in the
Cleveland Daily Banner in Cleveland, TN:
Christopher H. Bagwell, grandson of Nancy and Richard Hughes of Cleveland, was severely wounded Tuesday, Sept. 18, in Iraq.
Bagwell and his squad leader were the only two survivors of a 12-member squad decimated when an Iraqi youth detonated explosives wrapped around his body.
A graduate of York Institute and Tennessee Technological University in Cookeville, Bagwell spoke with his grandmother last week.
She said the young soldier told her he had just passed the youthful bomber with his squad leader, with his squad following behind handing out candy to children. The Iraqi village was believed to be a friendly zone for the U.S. military.
The youngster, believed to be 10 to 12 years old, detonated the explosives as the soldiers were walking by. Ten members of the squad were killed, along with the youngster.Bagwell was severely injured.
The thing is, I can't find any such record of a young suicide bomber causing so many fatalities among U.S. troops in Iraq, or for that matter, even ten U.S. fatalities on Sept. 18 in total.
Anti-war casualty clearinghouse icasualties.org has no record of such an attack, or even anything similar. According to U.S. Central Command Casualty Reports, there was one attack on Sept. 18, where 3 soldiers were killed and 3 wounded near Tikrit. There was nothing like a suicide bombing attack that killed ten soldiers and wounded two. A search of Google News also fails to uncover a similar account.
Update: The military weighs in:
Sir,
After reviewing available information, we are unable to confirm the
story's legitimacy. Thank you.
V/R,
BRYON J. MCGARRY, 1Lt, USAF
OIC, JOC Public Affairs
Multi-National Corps - Iraq
10/15 Update: Catherine Caruso of the Fort Lewis PAO responds via email:
4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (Stryker Brigade Combat Team) is a
unit stationed here at Fort Lewis, and is currently deployed to Iraq.
Madigan Army Medical Center is also located on the installation, but I
do not have access to patient names or information and can't release
names of wounded Soldiers due to patient privacy laws- MAMC has their
own public affairs office which may be of more help if you would like to
contact wounded Soldiers who are assigned to the hospital.
There was an incident on Sept. 18th in which three Soldiers from the
brigade's 2nd Battalion, 23rd Infantry Regiment, were killed...
...The editor of that paper called here a few minutes ago, and it appears
this may have been the same incident the paper referred to. I could not
answer all of his questions, but it appears he also believes the paper
may have inadvertently published inaccurate information re: the number
of casualties. For my part, I can confirm there was an incident that
date, but don't have details about the incident beyond what was in the
DoD release, nor do I have information about any Soldiers wounded in the
incident.
However, 2-23 IN has suffered 10 casualties since their deployment in
April through their most recent loss on Sept. 22 (this includes all
causes- accidents, combat, and medical). It seems likely that this could
be the source of the confusion re: the number of Soldiers involved, if
this is the same incident in which the Soldier referenced in the story
was injured.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Iraqis are not usually suicide bombers by choice. Some have been drugged or tied to vehicles that were remotely detonated. This does not ring true to those of us in Baghdad.
Posted by: Randy at October 13, 2007 02:55 AM (rDU/d)
2
And the newswriter might want to look up the meaning of "decimate."
Posted by: Bill Smith at October 13, 2007 03:30 AM (rmzjl)
3
No! Really? TNR? Who would have thought that? It seems I may have heard of such a story seeing that my son is over there.
The Leftinistra are SO needing a truthful phony soldier story.
Makes my warrior's blood boil.
Posted by: Snooper at October 13, 2007 03:56 AM (3Y48T)
4
It seems TNR makes up stuff right and left. But when the aim is to demoralize the home front, "by any means necessary is the rule of thumb."
Posted by: Banjo at October 13, 2007 08:32 AM (1DQ52)
5
This is the incident, I suspect.
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14096&Itemid=128
Same unit. 3 dead, 3 WIA
Posted by: Chuck Simmins at October 13, 2007 11:09 AM (hASmp)
6
Three killed to "only 2 survivors in a decimated 12 member squad".
At the very least this is staggering incompetence by Larry C Bowers of the Cleveland Banner
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrrrr at October 13, 2007 11:45 AM (2wI6h)
7
I have written the author of this article asking them to check their facts before spreading inaccuracies.
The article reeks of the desire to "get a scoop" at the expense of the military.
As Blackfive states, this has got to stop.
Posted by: Snooper at October 13, 2007 12:31 PM (3Y48T)
8
This paper is a very small, almost community paper. Cleveland TN not Ohio. They got a call from the grandmother, probably, and reported what they were told.
The injured soldier may believe what was reported. He was injured badly enough to be evaced to Germany and may not remember or have been told the results of the attack. And the info passing through Grandma may have gotten a little fuzzy.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins at October 13, 2007 01:35 PM (hASmp)
9
Here's a lead for getting further on the story but it doesn't have a date. It looks like the one you folks are noting: three dead from an IED on the 18th and the other from an unrelated illness on the 19th.
http://www.the-news-tribune.com/news/local/v-lite/story/170957.html
(delete the - in "the-news-tribune". I had to add to get past a filter.
Posted by: Dusty at October 13, 2007 03:26 PM (1Lzs1)
10
They got a call from the grandmother, probably, and reported what they were told.
That's the kind of fact checking Weekly World News used. Maybe BatBoy is reporting from Iraq for this fish wrapper?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 13, 2007 03:38 PM (s4ZqU)
11
One other thing I noticed. They never mention the soldiers rank. Why not? I don't know if this is simply an oversight because as a previous commenter speculated, the author wanted to scoop the military. Or maybe they didn't think it important. Either reason is irresponsible.
Posted by: Andy B at October 13, 2007 03:58 PM (q1S2A)
12
As others have pointed out, it sounds like the grandparents miscommunicated to a local paper. Here are a few related links I found. Bargewell is mentioned on crutches in the first one. Take out the space between news and tribune to make the link work, the site wouldn't accept the comment with the entire link.
http://www.thenews tribune.com/news/local/v-lite/story/170957.html
http://blogs.thenews tribune.com/military/2007/10/08/a_change_at_2nd_battalion_23rd_infantry
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 13, 2007 04:38 PM (0pZel)
13
[Andy B at October 13, 2007 03:58 PM]
Chris Bowers doesn't note any ranks, or names for that matter, because he didn't investigate any of the details, Andy. If he had, he would have ran into the brick wall of it not happening as he describes in his second paragraph.
Bowers didn't scoop anyone and I don't believe he planned to. This was first covered on October 4th in the Tacoma News Tribune. It was merely a local interest story and, for the most part, a tribute.
It's just too bad the "how it happened" was totally wrong. Bagwell's grandparents have my prayers, and humble thanks, for their grandson.
Posted by: Dusty at October 13, 2007 04:50 PM (1Lzs1)
14
All due respect, honor, and sympathy to Bagwell's grandparents...
This seems to be Same Song, Second Verse for the leftymedia:
* Story shows Bad Things happening in Iraq, run with it without verification.
* Story shows Good Things happening in Iraq, bury it.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 13, 2007 08:53 PM (ufhAS)
15
I picked up this story a couple of days ago. Try finding an email address for the 4-2 PAO is your not in the military...fat chance. I can't even find a website for the 4-2.
The local paper just printed what Grandma said. I've known a couple of soldiers that have been evacced from Iraq thru Landstuhl to Ft Lewis and there recollections of how they got there are somewhat fuzzy....along the lines...'I was in the truck...then I woke up and I was in the hospital at Fort Lewis'.
Posted by: Soldier's Dad at October 14, 2007 05:29 PM (YL5FC)
16
In unrelated news, the
Cleveland Daily Banner>/i> announced it has a new Iraq correspondent, S. Thomas Beauchamp.
Posted by: TallDave at October 15, 2007 12:30 AM (r1Ip+)
17
12-man squad? That's one heck of a squad. A US Army squad will normally have two four man fire teams and a squad leader. Marine squads, on the other hand, supposedly have three fire teams.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at October 15, 2007 08:55 AM (oC8nQ)
18
Granny's probably got a dope farm in her basement and has been sampling the product.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2007 09:22 AM (6Yy5p)
19
Decimate? How do you kill 0.2 of a soldier?
Posted by: David at October 15, 2007 10:50 AM (K8BtQ)
20
[Purple Avenger at October 15, 2007 09:22 AM]
Purple, it isn't known how the story's basic details originated and why it was so inaccurate. It may have been the result of an innocent misunderstanding and mixing of facts. As Tacoma's News Tribune reported, 6 members of the 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division died in September; it's major has attended 10 ceremonies honoring 27 under his command.
If Bagwell recounted much of what has happened to him in one call to his grandparents, it could easily be misremembered.
You are allowing the ignorant, superficial and often deceitful respect of the military on the part of many on the Left, including those who inhabit the MSM, to get the best of you. Cynicism and suspicion is not warranted in this case, I think, and your snarky cariacature is, at best, premature and uncalled for at this time.
Posted by: Dusty at October 15, 2007 11:36 AM (GJLeQ)
21
I think the point is that small newspaper or not, there should be some standard of reporting, some basic rules of fact checking. I don't believe there was a conspiracy of any sort on the newspaper's part to make this story bigger than it is in a negative way. I think they are probably just negligent.
However, I don't think they should be given an easy pass just because they are a small newspaper or had kind intentions. Bloggers are often held to fact finding standards before publishing a post, so how can we hold a newspaper with a staff of at least 2 to less of a standard?
Posted by: Holly at October 15, 2007 12:13 PM (KMpke)
22
But Dusty, don't you ever wonder why each and every one of the "mistakes" are all on one side? I can't recall any positive stories that were "mistakes."
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at October 15, 2007 12:20 PM (Lgw9b)
23
[Holly at October 15, 2007 12:13 PM]
I agree whole-heartedly, moreso if your "negligently" was intended as 'too casual'. It was good that CY brought attention to this and I commend him on it.
[Capitalist Infidel at October 15, 2007 12:20 PM]
Yes, I do wonder about it, CI. Every day, it seems. A fuller answer to that would be too complicated to go into here, so let me just say I try to take every case as it comes, especially so when I don't have a history in which to frame it, like link this new case of the Daily Banner. I did notice their paper had a story yesterday on the some of their local kids just entering the services. They are keeping tabs on their kids and IMHO honoring them by recognizing their decisions, (as I notice now that they have done since before the 9/11, judging by their archives).
So I have formed my opinion on this story, and my opinion of the Daily Banner is separate and much different in this light, which is why I responded to PA's comment when it is likely I wouldn't have had the story been done in the LAT, the NYT, etc.
Posted by: Dusty at October 15, 2007 01:45 PM (GJLeQ)
24
I'm watching
Shattered Glass right now and I cannot believe this is happening again. What fools.
Posted by: capitano at October 17, 2007 09:05 PM (+NO33)
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October 09, 2007
Your Lyin' Eyes
From
Mike Yon this morning, via email:
Bob,
Basra is not in chaos. In fact, crime and violence are way down and there has not been a British combat death in over a month. The report below is false.
The NEWSDAY report he casts doubt on paints a far different story:
British pullout in Iraq leaves Basra in chaos
BY TIMOTHY M. PHELPS.timothy.phelps@newsday.com; This story was supplemented with wire reports.
October 9, 2007
WASHINGTON - The British troop pullout from Iraq announced yesterday leaves Basra, Iraq's second largest and most strategically important city, in near total chaos both politically and militarily.
It comes at a time when at least four Shia militias are fighting over the city, which is surrounded by most of the nation's tremendous oil reserves and provides Iraq's only gateway to the sea.
Equally vital for U.S. strategists, the city also controls the southern portion of the road from Kuwait to Baghdad, along which mostly all U.S. supplies are brought in...
The article continues, of course, but is it worth reading?
Who are you going to believe... the reporter with th Washington byline, or the embed on the ground in Iraq?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Maybe Mike should go down to Basra for a few days. And e-mail the pics to Tim from Newsweek so he can "supplement" his next report.
Posted by: Rey at October 09, 2007 07:46 AM (4X3wl)
2
correction: "Newday" not "Newsweek"
Posted by: Rey at October 09, 2007 07:47 AM (4X3wl)
3
Did any of you nice folks contact Snoozeday for a comment and ask them to print a retraction?
Posted by: Jarhead68 at October 09, 2007 09:40 AM (XLv2M)
4
Rey:
Mike has been in Basra for a couple of weeks now.
If Tim Phelps at Newsday had bothered to speak to Con Conglin at the Telegraph UK, he'd have known this:
"In the past few weeks there has been a tangible improvement in the security there, particularly since British troops vacated their last outpost in Basra's city centre at the end of August. Crime in Basra is down 70 per cent, and rocket and mortar attacks against British forces – which were running at more than 90 a day in the summer – have been reduced almost to zero – as Mr Brown experienced for himself this week."
(The Tide Is Turning In Basra, Oct 6, 2007)
Tim Phelps & Newsday clearly have NO journalistic integrity--- and/or they work as mouthpieces for terrorist organizations. Strangely this story reads too much like most of the crap I read in some of the Arabic media.
Posted by: Tara at October 09, 2007 10:40 AM (Dqxeq)
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Mike Yon lies for a living and has not written one provable fact and certainly never backs his stories with any photos or witnesses...just his humble and wrong opinions.
Posted by: madmatt at October 09, 2007 02:16 PM (J8hqn)
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"In the past few weeks there has been a tangible improvement in the security there, particularly since British troops vacated their last outpost in Basra's city centre at the end of August."
If security is tangibly improved by leaving, then perhaps the U.S. should follow the Brit's lead and go home.
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 09, 2007 02:54 PM (gyNYk)
7
what does it matter? basra and the south are largly dominated by iran. so if britian stays or britian goes, is an iranian influenced iraq what we are paying 2 trillion dollars for? is this what we sent our soldiers to are die for? big picture guys and girls...big picture. reconciliation is moving in the negative direction, and our actions are fueling increased support for extremist islamist movements throughout the region. so y'all keep arguing about chaos in basra and the credibility of michael yon.
Posted by: jay k at October 09, 2007 02:55 PM (yu9pS)
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Oh that liberal MSM. Always reporting on how things have improved in Iraq.
Anyone ever bother to think about something called RAMADAN?!
2007 1428 13 September 12 October
Get ready for the uptick in violence to begin...oh....Saturday.
Fools.
Posted by: KC at October 09, 2007 03:18 PM (ZOnuf)
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Are you guys serious? Mike Yon is the most respected INDEPENDENT journalist in Iraq. He has spent more time in Iraq/Afghan, in harms way, than any other non-local. He is a former Green Beret and an excellent writer.
...Maybe you guys are being sarcastic. If so, jokes on me.
http://michaelyon-online.com/
Posted by: Grumpy at October 09, 2007 03:27 PM (keHE7)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 09, 2007 03:27 PM (WwtVa)
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"In the past few weeks there has been a tangible improvement in the security there, particularly since British troops vacated their last outpost in Basra's city centre at the end of August. Crime in Basra is down 70 per cent, and rocket and mortar attacks against British forces – which were running at more than 90 a day in the summer – have been reduced almost to zero…”
Can no one see a bit of cause and effect to this report; invading force pulls out of city and violence drops 70%... guess that instead of attacking the British forces the terrorist are busy packing their bags in preparation to “follow them home.”
It should be abundantly obvious to all that an “eye for an eye” approach in the Middle East is a loser, so why don’t we take a page from Ron Reagan and try a different tact against a seemingly monolithic threat.
Posted by: ibfamous at October 09, 2007 03:38 PM (ihUEC)
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If security is tangibly improved by leaving, then perhaps the U.S. should follow the Brit's lead and go home.
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 9, 2007 02:54 PM
I think you got it the wrong way round. Security improves, then we leave. Like the US marines have done in al-Anbar following the collapse of the insurgency in that province.
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at October 09, 2007 03:41 PM (gkobM)
13
basra and the south are largly dominated by iran.
Didn't Maliki just release a statement saying that Iran was no longer a force in Iraq? Or am I misremembering?
Posted by: nunaim at October 09, 2007 03:44 PM (22/Qe)
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Reluctant Republican, your theory would certainly hold up...if the facts were different. See, the situation didn't improve when the troops left. There remains thousands of British troops in the region, as the security improved.
Posted by: Brennan at October 09, 2007 04:05 PM (qzcNU)
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Yes! Pull troops out and peace follows, quickly.
Pay no attention to the 15 Basra-area women tortured and murdered each month, the Basra police chief is taking care of that...
http://tinyurl.com/2ma3fd
Posted by: Miss Led at October 09, 2007 04:17 PM (Egd50)
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grrrrrrrrrrrr....
if al anbar is such a great story why is it that the administration turned down all offers of cooperation with tribal leaders until recently, when leading up to the patreaus report, they were desperate for signs of success? and why is it that although al anbar actually is an endorsment of the biden plan the administration continues to reject that plan? the biden plan has been kicking around for years...if the white house had adopted it way back then maybe we would be on our way out of iraq. is it because it's a democrat's plan and the white house is more interested in politics than success? or is it because the administration is more interested in staying in iraq indefinitely? or is it because the real goal is iran?
Posted by: jay k. at October 09, 2007 04:29 PM (yu9pS)
17
The "Biden plan?" Bwahahahahahaha!!!! And who did he plagiarize it from? What is it with these viciously anti military people commenting here? Aren't they happy with daily kos, DU, thing progress, and all the other hate sites?
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at October 09, 2007 04:44 PM (Lgw9b)
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Michael Yon,Michael Totten and Bill Roggio
Nothing else needs to be said...
Posted by: Tincan Sailor at October 09, 2007 07:24 PM (L4HGI)
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You got the sock puppets up in arms, CY!
Posted by: C-C-G at October 09, 2007 07:50 PM (ufhAS)
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“Official statistics indicate that at least 15 women are being killed in Basra every month by criminal organization on the pretext of violating religious and moral rules,” the general noted.
Hmmmmm according to the piece that MissLed linked...15 women have been killed EVERY month!
Interesting because LA times in a piece titled " Iraqis Divided by Constitutions Treatment of Women" quotes the same General as saying 15 women in the LAST month There is a big difference between the two statements!
By the way --- trust the LA times to create a headline thats misleading --- the issue of concern is ONE Article in the Constitution ---Article 41!
And PS -- the BRITS ARE STILL IN BASRA!! Of the four southern provinces placed under the protection of British forces, three have been handed over to local control, while the fourth, Basra, should be handed over by the end of the year.
“I will lead a campaign to protect the woman’s rights in Basra, where she exposes to different kinds of repression and a new terrorism,” the general told reporters.
Good for him!!! He wants to get rid of gang violence - sounds like he could be the mayor or police chief of any major city in the US or Canada!!
When we turned over parts of southern Iraq to the Iraqi forces --- this is what we wanted them to do!! Govern themselves and provide their own people with security - keep law and order. And they are - so what the hell is every freaking liberal and apparently even some conservatives ragging on about?? In order for us to stand down ...they need to stand up! GOOD FOR THEM FOR DOING SO!!!
No one said peace, security, tranquility, law and order would suddenly materialize, and that all signs of violence would disappear.
Go figure - Basra is having some of the same problems we all face in big city America...GANG VIOLENCE!
We are a democracy that is dealing with violence: Gang violence: Asian gangs, Crips vs Bloods; AND racial violence is still prevalent; AND we have rapes and violent deaths occurring on daily basis, yet only a fool would leave a pithy comment "looks like chaos to me" about America after reading about the many violent killings that snuffed out young lives in the US over the past week...yet won't think twice about making the same comment when it comes to quoting out of context an incident of religious violence in Iraq.
Should we assume that every time someone is killed violently in the US that we have failed as a democracy? That the city, the state,the entire country is in 'chaos'???
It is sad that 15 women were killed by religious gangs in Basra----but something very important is being overlooked!
Hanaa Edwar, heads the Iraqi Amal Assn., a human rights group. Her Association (her human rights group) along with legal scholars are opposing Article 41 in the Iraqi constitution.
Thats awesome! Iraq's fledgling democracy is only four years old -- yet they have women in gov't and womens right activists. America saw neither for many many decades after her constitution was written and ratified!!
This is DEMOCRACY at work in Iraq - debate is going on - and yes sadly,sometimes religious street gangs manage to use violence to secure power for themselves, to usurp existing power and as a form of protest about that which they disagree with! But this time, they have a local army willing to stand up to religious extremism!
The problem of religious violence and extremism is an enduring one throughout the Middle East. It won't disappear tomorrow or in ten years... there are many in Iraq that cannot ignore the fact that religion is part of their existence. And so there is debate about Article 61!
The fact that there IS debate going on in Iraq to resolve a certain Article in the constitution that some women feel may leave all women vulnerable to a extreme religious interpretation of the Koran is exciting and it should resonate as a clear sign that Iraq IS succeeding despite the gang deaths.
And liberals in America especially women should be applauding this rather than insisting on wearing headscarves to meet with Syrian Presidents and braying endlessly about 'failures and quagmires' in Iraq!!
Jay --- We left behind a small force in Germany,Japan and South Korea indefinitely - people objected - yet the benefits to the world have far outweighed whatever fears they may have had.
Posted by: Tara at October 09, 2007 09:27 PM (SfNIo)
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Grrrr..."I think you got it the wrong way round. Security improves, then we leave."
That's not what Conglin says. He said:
"In the past few weeks there has been a tangible improvement in the security there, particularly since British troops vacated their last outpost in Basra's city centre at the end of August."
The cause and effect is very clear in that sentence.
So, which way is it? Is Phelps wrong, security being all the better for the Brits backing out, or is Phelps right, Basra being in near chaos? You can only have it one way, people.
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 09, 2007 10:05 PM (zZTFX)
22
Actually, RR, who says those are the only two options?
Perhaps Yon is the one that is right. His statement, "there has not been a British combat death in over a month" would seem to indicate that there are still British troops there, else his statement would be on a par with saying there have been no people trampled by musk oxen in New York City in the last month.
Of course, that throws your theory that removing troops = peace right out the window, so of course you wouldn't even consider that, would you?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 09, 2007 10:40 PM (ufhAS)
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The facts are these:
On September 3 the British forces pulled out of their main city base and are now located by the airport. UK fatalities in the province fell from eight in July to five in August to only two in September.
British troops in the province have limited their combat missions to protecting the airport base and its supply lines, protecting international borders, and keeping a force on standby to intervene in case of emergency.
Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/19dd44f8-75af-11dc-b7cb-0000779fd2ac.html
They have withdrawn from the city, and there are significantly fewer combat deaths among the British soldiers. Coincidence? Not likely.
The real question should be: are things better or worse for the Iraqis in Basra? And does that make Phelps right, or wrong?
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 10, 2007 12:22 AM (zZTFX)
24
RR, the decrease in casualties mirrors that across the rest of the country. Therefore, it could just as easily be attributed to the general uprising against Al Qaeda because of AQ's brutality.
Face it, it is impossible to say with certainty that the withdrawal of troops led to peace. There are simply too many variables.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 10, 2007 12:27 AM (ufhAS)
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"if al anbar is such a great story why is it that the administration turned down all offers of cooperation with tribal leaders until recently"
Reaching out to tribal leaders has been ongoing since at least the pacification of Falluja in 04. Problem was the Baathists and nationalists were not interested. However, several years of having their arses handed to them by the Marines, plus AQs increasingly dictatorial nature, made them realize they had better accept the Government of Iraq/US offers to come in from the cold
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at October 10, 2007 12:36 AM (2wI6h)
26
If dopes are going to lie about Michael Yon, let's tell the truth about Phelps. He broke the Anita Hill story, and claimed that
Hill was an open admirer of the judicial philosophy of Judge Bork. That last part sound right to you?
Posted by: Karl at October 10, 2007 12:36 AM (WJ2TD)
27
If you do buy into the idea that peace is breaking out in Basra, it's pretty clear that the British pullout hasn't hurt it any.
And if you define "peace" in terms of a lack of coalition troop deaths, then it should be pretty obvious by now that pulling out of country is the only way it could possibly ever be achieved.
Speaking for myself, I don't, and I don't. I can't speak for the other braniacs here.
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 10, 2007 12:49 AM (zZTFX)
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jay k.,
I've never heard of General Biden.
Do you have a link?
Posted by: M. Simon at October 10, 2007 02:35 AM (/DjYe)
29
RR, increased security is also seen in the declining numbers of
Iraqi deaths by Al-Qaeda violence.
Do you believe that pulling out would continue that trend, or would it reverse it?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 10, 2007 09:51 AM (ufhAS)
30
tara...key word SMALL...nearly 200,000 troops and mercinaries is not a small presence.
m. simon...traditionally politicians make policy...generals execute that policy.
and lastly grrrr...the us was reaching out to tribal leaders, in this case the shia. now they are reaching out to the sunnis in anbar, who have pushed out all the shia. there is a good deal of question whether they are pushing out aqi, or are simply assimilating them under a different "banner". at any rate we have effectively now funded and armed both sides of the civil war. whether it is actually good news or not, in anbar a soft partition has taken place...which is what biden has been promoting for years. now the white house points to it as a model of success, and out of the other side of their mouths discount the biden-gelb plan. so does the administration not know what is happening? or are simply they playing politics? which is just a nicer version of "are they incompetent or simply bald-faced liars"?
Posted by: jay k. at October 10, 2007 10:11 AM (yu9pS)
31
C-C-G
Al Queda has two stated goals. One is the elimination of western influence in the muslim world. The other is the formation of a caliphate.
Clearly, leaving Iraq would reduce the violence on the former count. I don't see violence as helpful to their latter goal.
My guess is that when we pull out, AQ does too. That's not to say that Iraq becomes a playground, because the struggle among the various sects will continue. Al Queda, however, is likely to become about as influential in the region as they were before the war, which is of course not at all.
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 10, 2007 11:52 AM (gyNYk)
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jugger exemplifies the conservative mindset, "if i don't believe it, its not true."
Posted by: ibfamous at October 10, 2007 05:55 PM (ihUEC)
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How many embeds does the MSM currently have in Iraq? Where are all these progressive thinkers getting their strategic and tactical information?
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 10, 2007 06:27 PM (0pZel)
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ibfamous, jugger is rather obviously a liberal troll. Please do keep up.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 10, 2007 07:39 PM (HcgFD)
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RR, you make my case for me. Al Qaeda wants to reestablish the Islamic caliphate. Why would they leave Iraq when they can easily make it the first part of that caliphate if we let them?
You might actually try thinking through your own argument before setting fingers to keyboard.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 10, 2007 08:01 PM (ufhAS)
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I suspect ibfamous and jugger are sock puppets with the same hand inside. Probably using different proxy servers, tho.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 10, 2007 08:04 PM (ufhAS)
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....and lastly grrrr...the us was reaching out to tribal leaders, in this case the shia. now they are reaching out to the sunnis in anbar, who have pushed out all the shia.....
First, there were NEVER many shia in al-Anbar. Second, the US was reaching out to sunnis in Iraq from the time of the liberation of Falluja from al-Qaida. These were SUNNI tribal leaders in Al-Anbar. Only now after major losses in a grinding war of attrition have they agreed to work with the coalition, they have no other option. Even Saddam never controled al-Anbar making this all the more remarkable.
.....there is a good deal of question whether they are pushing out aqi, or are simply assimilating them under a different "banner".....
There is very little doubt that AQ is being driven out by a distinct enemy, the Sunni tribes who should have been there natural allies, it is a major deeat for Osamas organization.
... at any rate we have effectively now funded and armed both sides of the civil war. whether it is actually good news or not, in anbar a soft partition has taken place...which is what biden has been promoting for years.
Again, your are totally wrong, al-Anbar was allways almost 100%. Joe biden and the democrats idiots in congress who want soft partition are profoundly stupid given that the vast majority of Iraqis do not want it (and that now has some significance since they are now in a democracy.
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at October 11, 2007 12:47 AM (2wI6h)
38
C-C-G
We are spending several American lives and roughly 2 billion dollars a week, supposedly to bring the gift of self-determination to the Iraqi people. Not that they've figured out to do with this power yet, but it's actually more likely now than ever that Iraq is amenable to joining a caliphate.
The best defense against a caliphate in that region, if you're seriously afraid of such a thing, is a secular strong-arm dictator. We found the last one of those hiding in a spider hole and hung him, remember?
And every time one of our crack security contractors opens unprovoked fire on a crowd of Iraqi innocents? Well that just brings the caliphate another several hundred purple fingers closer to becoming a reality. And as if we should care.
You do understand what a caliphate is, don't you? And of course you are aware that there are countless muslims wishing to return to a caliphate system through peaceful means?
The very idea that we should be expending blood and treasure in an attempt to deny the muslim caliphate is the strangest one yet, even stranger than the logical disconnects I originally came here to complain about.
Posted by: Reluctant Republican at October 11, 2007 12:53 AM (zZTFX)
39
...The best defense against a caliphate in that region, if you're seriously afraid of such a thing, is a secular strong-arm dictator. We found the last one of those hiding in a spider hole and hung him, remember?...
Riiiight. Strong arm dictators in the middle East have worked out so well for us in the past.
For example, the Saudis whoes un-democratic nation gave us 9/11 (you do remember that dont you) and saddam who gave US the invasion of Kuwait and WMD almost up to and including a nuke. The only long term solution in the middle east is democracy. And for every mistake by Blackwater or UAE based Australian security firms there are dozens of rogue Mehdi civiliann killings that drive a thousand purple fingers away from Iran. This may be why the clerical structure in Najaf recently moved AWAY from the teachings of the Iranian ayatollahs.
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at October 11, 2007 01:20 AM (2wI6h)
40
RR, democracy is possible in mostly Muslim countries. Look at Turkey. I happen to have a very good friend living there--an American citizen--who has recently married a Turk, so I have some very good information on what is happening there and in the region around Turkey.
Turkey has not fallen to the caliphate, and is not ruled by a strong-arm dictator. Therefore, your theory is disproven.
But, I am sure that you can come up with another, equally easily disproven. You're obviously flailing about, trying everything you can think of to proclaim the war in Iraq a failure, even if a few moments' thought would prove your theories nonsense.
By the way, your name is fooling no one. You are not a Republican, reluctant or otherwise.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 11, 2007 08:23 PM (ufhAS)
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October 08, 2007
Redefining "One"
The U.K.
Telegraph, not exactly the
voice of reason or accuracy when it comes hand-wringing hype of the possibility of war between the United States and Iran, has an amusingly self-contradictory post today by Tim Shipman that claims that U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is "
The man who stands between US and new war."
The thrust of the headline and the urderlying premise drummed up by the article is that Gates, and Gates alone, is the sole voice of sanity keeping the U.S. from a bombing campaign of Iran.
Unfortunately, the second half of the editorial (I hope this isn't supposed to be hard news) seems to exist merely to debunk that underlying premise:
Officials say Mr Gates's strategy bore fruit when Admiral William Fallon, the head of US Central Command, charged with devising war plans for Iran, said last month that the "constant drumbeat of war" was not helpful.
He was followed by General George Casey, the army's new chief of staff, who requested an audience with the House of Representatives armed services committee to warn that his branch of the military had been stretched so thin by the Iraq war that it was not prepared for yet another conflict.
Gen Casey told Congress the army was "out of balance" and added: "The demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply. We are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight, and are unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other potential contingencies."
Mr Gates has forged an alliance with Mike McConnell, the national director of intelligence, and Michael Hayden, the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, to ensure that Mr Cheney's office is not the dominant conduit of information and planning on Iran to Mr Bush.
The fact that the Army's Chief of Staff Casey, D-CIA Hayden, head of CENTCOM Admiral Fallon, and National Director of Intelligence McConnell have joined Secretary of State Rice and Secretary of Defense Gates in advocating that we try other means prior to war, apparently didn't register with Shipman, even as he wrote their names.
A great newspaper, the Independent. They never miss a thing.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Hi CY,
A great newspaper, the Independent. They never miss a thing Huh, I thought it was the conservative Daily Telegraph that we were talking about. You know, the one your Republican brethren have no trouble believing when its the only source for Syrian nuke stories.
Regards, C
PS The Torygraph article actually says "the single person in the US government
who has any standing with the White House fighting it." (Emphasis Mine) That isn't quite the statement you've said it is.
Posted by: Cernig at October 08, 2007 05:23 PM (cKwQY)
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What, Cernig, the Director of National Intelligence and the Director of the CIA have no standing with the White House?
Amazing. Upon what evidence do you base that claim, please?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 08, 2007 08:37 PM (TBuKI)
3
The Baker-Hamilton team has taken over US foreign policy. Gates was part of the team.
Posted by: davod at October 09, 2007 12:38 PM (llh3A)
4
Davod, which of them was present at the
grassy knoll at the bidding of the
Trilateral Commission and were whisked away by the
black helicopters?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 09, 2007 07:55 PM (ufhAS)
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October 07, 2007
Rape is not the Flu
Sexual assault is no caused by a bacteria or prion. Rape is not a virus, with gang rape being a more virulent strain of a virus.
Rape is an act of power, control and brutality. It is not an epidemic, and attempting to call it such strips away the fact that it is caused by a brutal act of will. It is not an unfriendly act of nature, a microbe following what it is designed to do, and using language that portrays it is such is inexcusable.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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American Heritage Dictionary
ep·i·dem·ic      (ep'i-dem'ik) Â
n. Â
1. An outbreak of a contagious disease that spreads rapidly and widely.
2. A rapid spread, growth, or development: an unemployment epidemic.
Sometimes words have more than one meaning.
Posted by: nunaim at October 07, 2007 07:59 AM (OcyzQ)
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Funny that the nytimes didn't see fit to note all the past sexual assaults by UN troops. Guess they didn't want to disparage their own "country's" armed forces.
At the end of the day, this is a report from the NY Times and the UN. What possible reason do you have to believe that there is any truth at all in this article?
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 11:35 AM (ZJg8X)
3
Obviously, the use of the word "epidemic" is grammatically correct, nunaim. That's not the point; if you read the article, CY is right about how it is written in a somewhat off-putting neutrality. Writing about how they "don't know why so many rapes are happening" as if they weren't perpetrated by individuals. It's subtle to be sure, but one cannot deny how much weaker the reporting sounds because of it.
Posted by: K-Det at October 07, 2007 11:48 AM (u0+iW)
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Iconoclast, clearly the NY Times believes Orwell's statement that everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. The UN is obviously in the "more equal" category at the
Times.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 02:09 PM (6c3XF)
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Indeed, that whole line "We don't know why these rapes are happening" kinda makes it seem like a disease. If we only we could determine how these woman are contracting rape perhaps we could do something about it. Perhaps it is caused by some insect or something in the water.
I'm not a sociologist so I have a pretty good idea what is causing this 'epidemic'. Take a bunch of children and raise them in regimented enviroment where everything is rrelated to violence and as they reach puberty reinforce the violent tendencies by equating sex with violence and you get some nasty viscous killers who will tend to rape people. Nothing new or ground breaking about the technique, been used off and on as far back as history has gone on (remember the Spartan training regime anyone, care to examine the original training programs for the Janissaries?). Hmm, I wonder if anyone has been creating these type of culture of violence armies anywhere recently.
Posted by: Mix at October 07, 2007 02:39 PM (G0N1G)
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I blame global warming, Mix.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 03:47 PM (u1Ozw)
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I would think 'mayhem' would be a better descriptor.
Posted by: PETN Sandwich at October 07, 2007 03:52 PM (XBgRS)
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I blame Bush.
By liberating the Iraqis and showing them the way to democracy, he's given third world people everywhere the idea that they shouldn't be raped by their totalitarian leaders
or the oh-so-caring UN representatives.
(only partly tongue-in-cheek... you figure out which parts)
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 04:17 PM (TBuKI)
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You are not alone on that Iconoclast, but I cannot accept that. GW may be responsible for violence (although I put more emphasis on corrupt politicians) but not the increased incidence of women contracting rape.
Of course I'm not a sociologist, so what do I know besides reality? I'm sure a sociologist can clearly demonstrate how GW, Bush or perhaps even Milton Friedman's death caused the increase in rapes after an examination of 15 fruit flies and a pen cap.
(I am a little tough on sociologists. There are some useful parts to sociology and excellent sociologists, but too many of them draw unwarrented and outrageous conclusions from miniscule data sets which have no relevance to the conclusions they twist from them. The general trend is the poorer the science the more attention it recieves, and this gives the field a poorer reputation than it truely deserves.)
Posted by: mix at October 07, 2007 05:36 PM (G0N1G)
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Actually, Mix, I can get ya a PhD in Sociology right now.
If something is bad, blame it on a Republican or conservative policy or politician.
If something is good, credit it to a Democrat or liberal policy or politician.
To see if something is good or bad, look at who is promoting it. If a Democrat or liberal promotes it, it is good. If a Republican or conservative promotes it, it is bad.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 06:10 PM (TBuKI)
11
mix
sorry, i forgot the \sarcasm tag. GW has as much effect on those violent rapes in the Congo as does the fruit flies...absolutely none.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 11:11 PM (TzLpv)
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Sean Connery: "I'll take The Rapist for $500!"
Trebeck: "Thats 'Therapist' Mr. Connery...."
Posted by: Lorne Michaels at October 07, 2007 11:38 PM (smjGq)
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October 06, 2007
When Any Bombing Photo Will Do
I don't know much about the "World News Network," but I can tell them this: if you're going to write a story about people killed in bombings during Ramadan in Iraq, it is probably best that you
don't use a picture from a
March truck bombing in Tal Afar.
Update: As noted in the comments this photo apparently came from--where else?-- a Reuters feed. At least that gave the military photographer, Chris Brogan, the credit.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Are you really surprised? It appears to be a Reuters feed in the World News article.
Posted by: Sara at October 06, 2007 10:03 PM (hGL+y)
2
it is a Reuter's feed and they even gave photo credit -- (photo: US Army file/Sgt. 1st Class Robert C. Brogan)-- which I recall Reuter's got busted in recent past not photo crediting Military image shots.
Posted by: Topsecretk9 at October 06, 2007 11:15 PM (ryO1F)
3
Great catch, CY. And nice follow up, Topsecretk9.
Posted by: Dusty at October 06, 2007 11:27 PM (1Lzs1)
4
Thanks Dusty, but Sara pointed out that it was a Reuters feed...
You should really take a gander at the World News Network slide show feed associated with the story - I could swear that image #2 of a truck bombing is one of the guy who shot 43,984 children behind broken glass or the same broken door in different months ( from like March or Feb), but on whole the slideshow captions are pointing to good news in Iraq - my guess, using general imagery to capture the stories.
They still shouldn't do this though on EVENT type stories, it's dangerous no matter which point of view. I'm agnostic a little bit on human interest stories if it's not egregious.
Nevermind. It's wrong on all fronts.
Posted by: topsecretk9 at October 07, 2007 01:10 AM (ryO1F)
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Yeah, sorry I missed that Sara.
About the photographers, Topsecretk9, pretty much all of the stringers take do the "through the hole" pictures. You may be referring to Wissam al-Okaili, of magic bullet fame, though. He stands out for me having looked through all his photos and seing dozens of them, but that may be because I searched his archive and not those of others.
As for the crediting of photos, I can't remember Reuters not doing it. The BBC didn't (doesn't?) which was caused by AFP, and it appeared, from my review at least, that the problem was a system wide breakdown by wire services and MSM in taking 'free to use' military photos and loading them for subscriber use and then wanting credit for making them available in their own service. Thus, the original sources were disconnected from the photos.
As CY notes, they appear to be righting that wrong now.
Posted by: Dusty at October 07, 2007 12:20 PM (1Lzs1)
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Picky, picky, picky! All victims look the same to the media. What did you expect, truth?
Posted by: AST at October 09, 2007 12:53 AM (0gJcF)
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October 01, 2007
al-Dura Denied
The televised death of Muhammad al-Dura on Sept. 30, 2000 at the beginning of the al-Aqsa Intifada was replayed over and over again as propaganda by Palestinians, in a conflict that eventually claimed
thousands of lives.
Seven years later, the footage has been denounced as fauxtography by the Israeli government:
Seven years after the death of the Palestinian boy Muhammad al-Dura in Gaza, the Prime Minister's Office speaks out against the "myth of the murder".
An official document from Jerusalem denied – for the first time – that Israel was responsible for the death of al-Dura at the start of the second intifada.
The document argued that the images, which showed al-Dura being shot beside his father and have become a symbol of the second intifada, were staged.
"The creation of the myth of Muhammad al-Dura has caused great damage to the State of Israel. This is an explicit blood libel against the state. And just as blood libels in the old days have led to pogroms, this one has also caused damage and dozens of dead," said Government Press Office director Daniel Seaman.
The arguments were based on investigations that showed that the angles of the IDF troops' fire could not have hit the child or his father, that part of the filmed material, mainly the moment of the boy's alleged death, is missing, and the fact that the cameraman can be heard saying the boy is dead while the boy is still seen moving.
In The Atlantic in 2005, James Fallows explained why the story matters:
Al-Dura was the twelve-year-old Palestinian boy shot and killed during an exchange of fire between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian demonstrators on September 30, 2000. The final few seconds of his life, when he crouched in terror behind his father, Jamal, and then slumped to the ground after bullets ripped through his torso, were captured by a television camera and broadcast around the world. Through repetition they have become as familiar and significant to Arab and Islamic viewers as photographs of bombed-out Hiroshima are to the people of Japan—or as footage of the crumbling World Trade Center is to Americans. Several Arab countries have issued postage stamps carrying a picture of the terrified boy. One of Baghdad's main streets was renamed The Martyr Mohammed Aldura Street. Morocco has an al-Dura Park. In one of the messages Osama bin Laden released after the September 11 attacks and the subsequent U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, he began a list of indictments against "American arrogance and Israeli violence" by saying, "In the epitome of his arrogance and the peak of his media campaign in which he boasts of 'enduring freedom,' Bush must not forget the image of Mohammed al-Dura and his fellow Muslims in Palestine and Iraq. If he has forgotten, then we will not forget, God willing."
It is quite possible that this defining moment in the Palestinian intifada cited even by Osama bin Laden was not the death of an innocent at the hands of callous Israeli soldiers, but the deliberate murder of a child for propaganda purposes in which the Palestinian cameraman may have been a willing actor.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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It seems that the release of the French footage will allow us the proof to what we already know, that the boy was downed by Arab bullets. The very exploitation of this and Jenin and the apartments of Lebanon should make everyone take a minute and not allow Arab propaganda from taking hold.
Posted by: Jweaver at October 02, 2007 09:30 AM (w8R25)
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According to R. Landes, who has seen the film already, the film doesn't show the boy being killed. Just set ups and takes, etc.
So it is also a possibility that the boy didn't die at all - because, as I recall, there was some difficulty the Palestinians claimed at the time with producing his body - but that he played dead for the cameras. Or that he had been killed in the Palestinian crossfire.
I find it hard to believe, at this point, that he was killed on demand.
Posted by: Alcibiades at October 02, 2007 09:47 AM (H9kgs)
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Pity all the fact checkers and editors at the AFP didn't sniff this out at the time. One would almost suspect that there aren't any.
Posted by: corvan at October 02, 2007 10:11 AM (1g+FW)
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Trackbacked by The Thunder Run -
Web Reconnaissance for 10/02/2007
A short recon of whatÂ’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at October 02, 2007 10:26 AM (gIAM9)
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When the entire video is released the truth will be known one way or another.
Until then everything is just premature speculation and guesswork.
Posted by: r4d20 at October 02, 2007 12:55 PM (tCYT+)
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Until then everything is just premature speculation and guesswork.
Not at all.
I'm not CSI, but I know my way around firearms, and I can tell you with a great degree of certainty that the bullet holes in the wall behind the al Dura's could not have come from the Israeli position.
Any shot from the Israeli position would have been at consideable distance and at a relatively shallow angle. The bullets would have gouged the wall and probably fragmented, leaving a mark somewhat similar to
this, but with probably even less depth as the bullet sideswiped the wall. Nor would the shot be as tightly grouped or in that particular pattern if fired from the Israeli position from an automatic as the shots actually were.
No, the shape of the bullet holes indicates a near right-angle shot, and the spread of the holes tells us they were fired at reasonably close range. It is impossible to pin it down precisely, but I doubt to many experts would argue with an estimate of the shots pictured being fired from much beyond 30 meters, and possibily inside that depending on the weapon used and the skill of the shooter.
This was a broadside murder, in my opinion, but the Israeli's had nothing to do with it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 02, 2007 03:23 PM (ScOBm)
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Another example of "fake but accurate."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 02, 2007 07:17 PM (ZPYB9)
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What exactly were the French filmmaker's reasons for withholding footage? If nothing fishy was going on he certainly could have cleared up a lot of questions. It stinks and he stinks. Pallywood, where everyone's dreams come true.
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 03, 2007 09:29 AM (0pZel)
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As daleyrocks reminds us, the French and Palestinian "journalists" pushing this story have behaved like liars trying to hide the evidence. That, too, is sufficient grounds to make criticism of them far more than premature speculation and guesswork.
Posted by: pst134 at October 04, 2007 12:26 PM (OA547)
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Limbaugh Blasted for "Phony Soldiers" Crack by Fake War Hero Harkin
I've pretty much avoided this entire non-story, but the entire situation has become such a farce that I feel compelled to link
this.
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Reagan said it best: "
he trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 01, 2007 07:56 PM (cWwQp)
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Another Vietnam "war hero," according to the left, is poor Max Cleveland. Bill and Hillary are always bringing him up as a victim of the rightwing hate machine. It turned out that Cleveland accidentally blew off his own limbs in an incident in which beer was involved. That doesn't make him a phony soldier, but it doesn't make him a hero either.
Posted by: Banjo at October 01, 2007 09:00 PM (1DQ52)
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First it was Don Imus.
Then it was Bill O'Reilly.
Now it is Rush Limbaugh.
Who will be next?
Posted by: 1sttofight at October 01, 2007 10:01 PM (dyn92)
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Just for the record, Banjo, his name is Max CLELAND. And, according to his Wikipedia entry, the grenade fell off one of his buddies flak jackets after exiting a helipcopter.
I'm no fan of his by any means, but the suggestion that he may have been drunk and caused his own injuries is simply not factually accurate.
And it's kinda irrelevant to the whole Rush Limbaugh smear...
Posted by: CBT at October 02, 2007 07:04 AM (TYZsn)
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I stand corrected on Cleland.
Posted by: Banjo at October 02, 2007 09:19 AM (1DQ52)
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Hmmmmm.
@ CBT
I'm no fan of his by any means, but the suggestion that he may have been drunk and caused his own injuries is simply not factually accurate.
Frankly I wouldn't trust WikiPedia on this. While they have that in quotations, they don't actually *cite* anything as the source of the quotations.
Perhaps the original meme is wrong, that Max Cleland was drinking beer with some buddies, saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up whereupon it detonated. But if so I'd like to see something, anything, actually cited.
Let's face it. The Democrats have a huge political investment in Max Cleland's military career. And it sounds a lot better that he was injured in an accident rather than because of doing something idiotic while under the influence of alcohol.
Posted by: memomachine at October 02, 2007 09:39 AM (3pvQO)
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Carnival of the Bizarre
Both
U.S. military and
Iraqi civilian casualties have plummeted in Iraq.
Thousands have apparently been killed and their bodies dumped in the jungle in clashes with government forces in Mayanmar/Burma. A college football player is
gunned down and classes are cancelled for thousands as the search for the suspect continues.
A volcano erupts in the Red Sea, killing soldiers on a remote island outpost. There is yet another story about U.S. plans for attacking Iran.
And yet with all these developments affecting or potentially affecting lives around the globe, CNN and Fox News focus on the death of an irate passenger who apparently managed to strangle herself with her handcuffs after being arrested for disorderly conduct after missing her flight.
Don't get me wrong. It is a tragedy that this 45-year-old mother of three died. But this shouldnÂ’t be a top story in national news.
For those not related to her, her death is merely an exploited curiosity, a carny act inexplicably promoted to the the center ring. It matters little that she is the daughter of relatively obscure political figures, or that the cause of her death is being ascribed to the oddest of circumstances. This is sideshow material promoted to the front page for it's ability to shock and entertain.
I thought that the Weekly World News collapsed because they couldn't find readership for their kind of "news." Apparently, they were simply driven out of business by larger organizations more adept at exploiting a more brutal kind of infotainment.
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Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at October 01, 2007 01:41 PM (oC8nQ)
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This story is much more relevant and should have been the front page headlines:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298802,00.html
Sons Stab Each Other During Chicago Mom's Birthday Party
Monday, October 01, 2007
CHICAGO — A Southwest Chicago mother got the fright of her life Sunday night when her two sons stabbed each other during her birthday celebration, police said.
The men, ages 37 and 39, were hospitalized in critical condition, but were expected to live. No charges have yet been filed.
Posted by: NortonPete at October 01, 2007 02:51 PM (fVuwW)
3
This is why I prefer Arab news...
Posted by: Dawnfire82 at October 01, 2007 05:28 PM (oIINu)
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That yarn was just a breather before the perfect storm of more Britney 24/7. And doesn't O.J. have a hearing coming up? While I'm on the subject, what explains the neglect of Paris Hilton lately?
Posted by: Banjo at October 01, 2007 09:05 PM (1DQ52)
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I afraid I have to disagree. The events around the world may ultimately impact us here, although the deaths reported in Burma seem a little strange and I doubt the number. But the death of this woman is indicative of the death of our freedom. I certainly understand the concern that we should have following 9/11, but I feel that if we had no security at all that your chance of being harmed by a terrorist would be less than that of being hit by lightning.
I have the opinion that terror is a weapon and that we should be targeting those that use that weapon. So far we have managed to get ourselves bogged down in a fight to bring democracy to a country that has no idea what it is. This woman's death indicates that we have no idea what it is. Our police are becoming far to intrusive into our lives and this is a perfect example. The woman was sick. She needed someone to look after her and not handcuff her and leave her unobserved. She very well could have had a good reason to be mad at the airplane staff. I have yet to go to the airport without a strong desire to kill someone (figuritively or else the gestapo may come after me).
Posted by: David Caskey at October 02, 2007 07:48 AM (G5i3t)
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If you show up at the gate after the door has closed, you don't get on the plane. They will not disrupt their departure checklist for one tardy passenger. It has been this way forever. That incident has nothing to do with "security".
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 02, 2007 09:23 AM (bEmmq)
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Purple,
I realize that concept of travel. But we are not presented with that fact. In addition, considering the deterioration of the airline industry, it is not inconceivable that they denied her for any number of reasons. The woman had enough of the stupidity that infest our country and blew up. For that the police killed her. The story is an example of how low we have come. Also, ask yourself, why she was late. Could it have been the ridiculous security? Or any of the other barriers we have to just getting on a stupid plane. We have gone beyond stupidity on this terrorism and security situation and it is past time to turn the clock back. I think this is one of the reasons that Hillary is going to get the government and turn us into a socialist state.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 02, 2007 09:52 AM (G5i3t)
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Part I:
The women was part of the stupidity infesting our country.
"The police killed her." Hogwash. She killed herself in a tragic accident when she tried to Houdini herself out of the handcuffs and shackles. If she had just calmed down and shown a little rationality, she would have been released.
There are some details in the story that cause me to conjecture. She is the DIL of a wealthy rights advocate from NY. She arrived late at the gate for reasons unknown. You can speculate that security delayed her. I can speculate that she showed up late at the airport.
When I fly, I show up 1-2 hours before the flight to ensure I'll make it through security. I don't expect any special privileges. ONCE I showed up 20 minutes before departure at Newark but missed the flight to Dulles because they had already finished boarding. I was put on a later flight that evening.
She arrived after they had finished boarding. She flew into a childish rage. She became irrational and abusive and as such became a threat to the airport employees and travelers. Airport cops showed up. She became abusive towards them. She was restrained. I'm sure she struggled, screamed, kicked, tried to bite, spit and basically continued with her tantrum. They probably had to carry her. I'd bet she was screaming "Do you know who I am?!" at the time.
If I had been there, I would have applauded as airport security took her away. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 11:54 AM (VOA2U)
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Part II
The put her in the adult equivalent of "time out." They put her on a bench in a sealed room. They put shackles on her to keep her confined to the bench. They took away her audience. They gave her time to cool down. Instead, she believed that she could worm her way out of the handcuffs and the chain that kept her seated on the bench.
Put your hands behind your back. Imagine the handcuffs. Imagine the chain connecting the handcuffs to the chair you're sitting on. How would YOU get out? You're not supposed to be able to escape. It's not like this is a new technology. Restraints work.
The only fault I see is that security should have had a camera mounted in the ceiling so that detainees could be monitored. Remember, this isn't a jail cell--it's just a room off the concourse where detainees would wait for the Phoenix police or the FBI to come pick them up.
She died because she believed that she was above the rules that apply to everyone else. She died because she went irrational. People go irrational or stupid or inattentive all the time, and sometimes they die because of it (car accidents, smoking in bed, DIY electrical projects, drunk stunts on balconies, etc).
IF she had accepted the fact that she had missed boarding, she'd still be alive. IF she had not caused a scene in a public place, she'd still be alive. IF she had not harassed airline employees, she'd still be alive. IF she had not struggled with security, she'd still be alive. IF she had shown ANY restraint prior to being restrained, she'd still be alive. IF she had sat quietly, waiting for the moment to contact her lawyer, she'd still be alive.
Tragedy? Yes. But not indicative that we're in a "police state." She wasn't taken away by men in black to a jail cell where she was beaten and left in the dark. She wasn't given a bullet in the back of the head. This wasn't covered up by government sources.
She is a victim of an irrational, immature lapse of judgment and an inflated sense of ego.
Sorry for the length, I've been thinking about this since I first heard the story. I'm a frequent traveler and have no tolerance for people who cut in lines, expect special treatment, or treat hardworking airport employees like personal servants or second-class citizens. Some people just donÂ’t get it. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 11:55 AM (VOA2U)
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Part III
It has nothing to do with increased TSA presence due to terrorism. I don't think TSA was even involved. If this had happed pre-9/11, the results would have been the same. Public scene, taken away to calm down.
There is a time and a place to question authority. She showed a complete disregard for the rules of civilized behavior in public areas.
Ironically, she was shackled for her own safety, to keep her from assaulting anyone else or injuring herself. But noooooo, she just had to push the envelope.
I blame Bush. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 12:01 PM (VOA2U)
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pizza,
The way that our country is accepting the constant interference by police and authorities in our lives is truly depressing. I work in a situation were we have to confine people who are mentally impaired for one reason or another. This woman was not mentally impaired to that extent. If someone dies in this manner in my care, I have commited murder, period. Why is it that the police have to become involved in a situation like this? Had she hurt someone? Did she distroy major property? No, she shouted and was mad. Some of you would have done very well in Germany 70 years ago.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 02, 2007 03:08 PM (ipORN)
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Book II, Part I
Oooohh, a nazi reference!
CONSTANT interference? Like the checkpoints at major intersections where my citizenship papers get checked every time I go to the store for my authorized ration of USDA approved milk? The ubiquitous spy cameras and orbiting UAVs keeping track of the microchip implanted at the base of my skull (which also keeps track of seditious thoughts)? I have to admit, those patent leather jackboots are pretty spiffy, especially when seen up close when someoneÂ’s standing on my neck (as IÂ’m once again thrown to the ground and roughly searched, as we all are multiple times a day).
And we all KNOW that all the police departments are simply different branches, franchises if you will, of the great integrated federal imperial police force, using soulless clones (instead of neighbors and relatives) imported from eastern European dictatorships. They canÂ’t be actual citizens, after all, with a responsibility to maintain law and public order.
BTW, Throwing out glib reference to nazi Germany only displays an overwhelming ignorance of world history circa 1929-1945. Never having lived in a totalitarian, fascist state, how would you recognize the true signs of the malignancy that is fascism? Find someone who lived through the Hitler years in Germany or the Stalin years in Soviet Russia to gain some perspective about the differences between our democracy and theirs. Such comments have no place in reasoned discourse.
If you’ve never visited a police state, I could suggest several so you can go and experience the full effect for yourself. Even relatively benign states like the Philippines (where I lived for several years under Marcos and martial law) recognize the difference between internal security and oppression—check out the slaughter of the monks in Burma by a true police state. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 04:54 PM (VOA2U)
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Book II, Part II
David,
Neither of us were present at Sky Harbor. You have no basis on which to state that she was not mentally impaired. Chances are she wasn’t mentally impaired—I never implied she was. I implied that she had an EMOTIONAL response akin to a childish temper tantrum, that she acted irrationally and that she was detained in order to give her time to cool down and start behaving rationally again.
Since you work with mentally impaired persons, you must know that sometimes there can be no rationalizing of irrational actions. Have you ever had a patient throw a fit, or do they all accept your authority unquestioningly? And there are worlds of difference between murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, and suicide.
Tasering her was probably out of the question. The airport security (operating under different rules and regs than Phoenix PD) thought it best to restrain her. Obviously this method had worked in the past with unruly travelers, unless you think this is the first time anyone was ever taken into custody at an airport. She was no criminal, just someone having a really, REALLY bad day.
She fought the law and the law won. Now she’s a Darwin nominee (although technically she’s already passed her genes on to the next generation). Yes, her family is going through grief and pain and I’m not going to mock her as a person—but I will use her actions as an object lesson that actions bring consequences. We don’t always get to choose the consequences. I am truly sorry she died, but that does not mitigate the fact that she died because she could not bring herself back to a state of mind where she could act rationally. –cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 04:55 PM (VOA2U)
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Book II, Part III
This does not mean we are moving to a police state. It could also demonstrate that we are moving towards anarchy because rules of public behavior are being cast aside as some people feel that their narcissistic selves take priority over the good of others. WeÂ’re becoming a society of spoiled brats who throw tantrums at the least provocation: when our coffee is cold (or too hot and we spill it on ourselves), our flight is delayed, we get cut off in traffic, the dry cleaners temporarily misplaced a pair of pants, one-hour photo took two hours, someone referenced nazi Germany, etc.
There are some legitimate reasons to distrust some aspects of the bureaucracy that is the federal government. But remember, these people who work the bureaucracy aren’t faceless drones in the Borg collective—these are neighbors and people we knew in High School or college who went into public service. These are retired veterans who went into civil service. Individually, most of them are great people; caring parents, considerate spouses, friendly towards others. There is no “faceless they”—only Americans doing their jobs. Paranoia is as ingrained in the American psyche as baseball. It’s easier to believe that a conspiracy is involved rather than face the fact that usually it’s just incompetence and error by well-meaning people who have never met the law of unintended consequences.
IÂ’ve lived all over the US, in urban, suburban and rural areas. IÂ’ve lived next door to cops and government employees and have even met the occasional mental health practitioner. There is no plot. Someone will get elected in Â’08 and someone new will move into the White House. Government will change peacefully, despite the diatribes, then weÂ’ll move on to the next Britney scandal, the next bout with paranoia, the next round of congressional malfeasance and runaway federal spending.
I still blame Bush. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 04:55 PM (VOA2U)
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Pizza,
I agree, there is no plot of any kind and to indicate that there is one would be pure paranoia. But exactly when did Germany become a police state? It wasn't overnight. It consisted of gradually diminishing rights and an acceptance of the public to this changing state of affairs. That is exactly what we must fight. When I took a flight in the 50's, the concept of airport police did not exist. Gradually over time we have now reached a point where we are almost stripped searched to get on a plane and an irrate individual is arrested instead of being allowed to vent their frustration to an employee of an airline. There is even a holding cell at the airport. When was the last time you saw police of this nature at a train terminal or bus station?
Now I don't have to be reminded of the terrorist and all that junk. If we want to eliminate terrorist let's do that, but not have police in every aspect of our lives. I would much prefer to have security like the 50's today with the ever present "threat" than to have to be subjected to routine rights violations as we are. If an incident occurs, take it out on the group or countries involved.
An yes, I have spent time in a police state and the only thing lacking is the presence of machine guns at intersections.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 03, 2007 10:36 AM (G5i3t)
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