July 30, 2008
Choose The Facts You Want...
...as there seem to be plenty of "facts" to choose from.
James Hider in the UK TimesOnline is just one journalist of many rushing to tell the tragic story of a young Palestinian ruthlessly gunned down by an Israeli soldier:
Israeli soldiers shot dead a young Palestinian boy today during heated protests in a West Bank village close to Israel's huge separation barrier.
Hammad Hossam Mussa, believed to be around nine years old, was mortally wounded by an Israeli bullet as protestors threw rocks near the West Bank close to the village of Nilin.
[snip]
Salah Al Khawaja, a member of Nilin's Committee Against the Wall, said Israeli troops fired live rounds at a group of protesters who ran into Nilin after security forces dispersed demonstrators using rubber-coated bullets.
"Protesters arrived at the wall's construction site outside the village and the soldiers started to open fire with rubber bullets and tear gas. This pushed the protesters back into the village where the boy was hit by a live bullet in his chest," he said.
It doesn't much look like a chest wound.
Other news accounts offer variations of the basic story that roughly corroborate the image, though the L.A. Times reports that the boy was in a crowd; the New York Times claims he was resting under a tree. Also, the boy's age ranges from 9, to 10, to 11, to 12 depending on the news outlet.
It's very sloppy journalism, but symptomatic of reporting from the region.
Interestingly, according to the New York Times, the Israeli Army "had no knowledge of the shooting."
The IHT states that Palestinian officials refused an Israeli request for a joint autopsy, which may cause some raised eyebrows considering the Palestinian history of faking deaths even on video. The Palestinian autopsy states that the bullet that killed the boy came from an M16, a weapon both sides have.
It will be interesting to see the results of the Israeli investigation into this case, even though judgement has already been passed in the eyes of the word's media.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Without any reliable accounts to go on, I find it more plausible that the unfortunate one was the victim of Hamas/Fatah violence. There seems to be a bit of that going on just now.
Posted by: George Bruce at July 30, 2008 01:00 PM (v4XVE)
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Or more likely a victim of a "Palestinian work accident."
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at July 30, 2008 02:49 PM (kNqJV)
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Does Israel use the M-16? I thought they were fielding Galils?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 30, 2008 02:51 PM (SLqkZ)
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I'd also like to point out that "rock throwing" doesn't quite tell the whole story. If you look at the picture in the TimesOnline link the "Rock Thrower" is using a sling and not just chucking rocks.
While even a thrown rock can cause injury and even death, using a sling to hurl rocks is an attack using deadly force. The reporters neglect to mention that. The sling is a cheap, simple to make, and easily concealable weapon. If Israeli forces are met by bands of Palestinians using slings no wonder they are reacting with deadly force.
Posted by: Reason at July 30, 2008 03:14 PM (FaCaW)
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I say arm the Palestinians as equals to Israel. Then let them fight it out. The tragedy is that one side has only rocks while the other has a vast array of weapons to pick and choose from. Feed weapons to both sides and let them kill each other off. Problem solved.
Posted by: johnrw at July 30, 2008 03:59 PM (pvnPQ)
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Purple Avenger:
The Galil is an older rifle that has been mostly phased out of IDF frontline units in favor of newer weapons like the M-16/M-4. However, of the four Galil variants, three of them fire the 5.56 NATO round, the same round used in the M-16/M-4. (I believe one variant of the Galil was chambered for the 7.62) But infantry units in the IDF are using the M-16/M-4. Some frontline units are using the new Tavor, which also fires the 5.56 NATO.
Posted by: Eric at July 30, 2008 04:40 PM (fF2Om)
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John, you want to arm genocidal islamic fascists?
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at July 30, 2008 06:44 PM (kNqJV)
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And the MoveOnMedia wonders why it keeps losing subscribers/viewers.
Posted by: C-C-G at July 30, 2008 06:52 PM (vCJA9)
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Capitalist Infidel,
You have given 3 labels/names...
1. genocidal
2. islamist
3. fascists
of which only 1 can be possible...
1. Genocidal to whom? When you steal my land... and I fight back it's not called genocide... it's called Freedom Fighting. Not that Palestinians have 9 year old Freedom Fighters.
2. True. Islam is just a religeon.
3. Since they have no State to be fascistic with... that's laughable. I would call Israel a Fascistic State... using it's Defense Forces to do a lot more than "Defense."
Yes... there is nothing wrong with arming a people to fight back. American support for Israel's existance may be broad... but it's not Deep. It's recently lost mine. I'm voting for Ralph since Obama wears a yamika, from time to time.
Posted by: johnrw at July 30, 2008 08:43 PM (pvnPQ)
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The wound in the photgraph, if real, would also be consistent with getting hit by a sling-launched rock at close range launched by someone behind the boy. In other words, a "friendly fire" incident.
Posted by: cathyf at July 30, 2008 11:47 PM (w57lR)
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cathyf -
What was this one all about? Yeah... the more I look into Israel... the more disgusted I get.
(I just started this yesterday.)
Israeli Army Suspends Cmdr Over West Bank Shooting - Sources
JERUSALEM (AFP)--The Israeli army Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting with a rubber-coated bullet of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian, military sources told
read THAT story here...
http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_885325076
Posted by: johnrw at July 31, 2008 02:48 AM (pvnPQ)
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cathyf -
What was this one all about? Yeah... the more I look into Israel... the more disgusted I get.
(I just started this yesterday.)
Israeli Army Suspends Cmdr Over West Bank Shooting - Sources
JERUSALEM (AFP)--The Israeli army Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting with a rubber-coated bullet of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian, military sources told
read THAT story here...
http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_885325076
Posted by: jM8R-1ky18j at July 31, 2008 03:03 AM (pvnPQ)
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Hey C.Y.
I got a "Server Error Encountered" and now there's a duplicate.
Posted by: johnrw at July 31, 2008 03:08 AM (pvnPQ)
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C.Y.,
I got a Server Error when posting... and now there's a duplicate. Something about scroogle.cgi
john
Posted by: johnrw at July 31, 2008 03:12 AM (pvnPQ)
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"1. Genocidal to whom? When you steal my land... and I fight back it's not called genocide... it's called Freedom Fighting. Not that Palestinians have 9 year old Freedom Fighters.
2. True. Islam is just a religeon.
3. Since they have no State to be fascistic with... that's laughable. I would call Israel a Fascistic State... using it's Defense Forces to do a lot more than "Defense.""
Okay...
1. When you wish to kill an entire nation and drive them into the sea, as Hamas et. al, have repeately said they wish to do...then that's genocide.
2. He didn't say "Islam" he said "Islamist". The former is a religion with numerous varieties and 900+ million adherents. The latter is an ideology which is a variant and some say a perversion of the aforementioned religion, which, briefly, wants to kill or compel obedience from all who are not members. The aformentioned Hamas and most other Palestinian resistance groups have more than superficial ties to the latter.
3. By your argument, Hitler would not have been a fascist until after he became Chancellor of Germany. Fascism is an ideology; one does not need to have a state to be one.
As to Israel, what do its Defense Forces do that is not Defense (if you say "Offense" prepare to be laughed at), and what does that have to do with Fascism?
Posted by: Andrew the Noisy at July 31, 2008 01:57 PM (cntKs)
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The impressive part is how WE, the US keep supplying the Palestinians with money and aid, yet the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Brunei and Qatar, who are literally floating in gobs of oil cash aÂ’la Scrooge McDuck and his Money Bin, they havenÂ’t (comparatively) offered the slightest farthing in assistance.
It’s time to cut them ALL off. Stop buying our oil from them, stop sending out aid, and close up shop and let them ‘rot on the vine.’
Posted by: Big Country at July 31, 2008 02:01 PM (niydV)
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Andrew the Noisy,
You did not read the posts I made... and their links.
Shooting 9 year old children to Death... Shooting bound(handcuffed, zip tie whatever it was) and blindfolded Palestinians... What do you call that? Defense? Or maybe it is that you have some perverse permutation of the word in mind...
I'm no Arab... but if this is the kind of treatment the neighbors are giving the Palestinians, who technically hold the only land claim to the land Israel sits on, well since 1948 anyways... then maybe it is time for the Palestinian big brothers to come to their aid.
I got news for you Israel supporters... as the world goes past peak oil... and oil gets scarcer and scarcer... the big ole USA is going to be able to offer less and less protection to the squatters on Palestinian lands over there. Hedge your bets.
You can try and shush everybody who doesn't "Just Love Israel" or paint them with a swastica and as a Hitler supporter... but still... your time is running out. China blocking the UN sanctions against Zimbabwe... shows they don't just go handing out sanctions like parking tickets. They said something about it not being important enough, doesn't shake the world up enouhh. As China's economy takes more and more control... makes you wonder what side effects will happen.
I have watched the USA from within learn to live more and more like Israelis(afraid of everything) over the last 7 years or so... and it isn't becoming of those whose fathers and mothers conquered a continent. Israelis never conquered the land they are on. They used trckery and chicanery and the Britian/UN. Ok, enough.
I did notice that story seems to have been buried.
Well, the 9 year old boy's name was Hammad Hossam Mussa.
Posted by: johnrw at July 31, 2008 10:10 PM (pvnPQ)
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Andrew the Noisy,
You did not read the posts I made... and their links.
Shooting 9 year old children to Death... Shooting bound(handcuffed, zip tie whatever it was) and blindfolded Palestinians... What do you call that? Defense? Or maybe it is that you have some perverse permutation of the word in mind...
I'm no Arab... but if this is the kind of treatment the neighbors are giving the Palestinians, who technically hold the only land claim to the land Israel sits on, well since 1948 anyways... then maybe it is time for the Palestinian big brothers to come to their aid.
I got news for you Israel supporters... as the world goes past peak oil... and oil gets scarcer and scarcer... the big ole USA is going to be able to offer less and less protection to the squatters on Palestinian lands over there. Hedge your bets.
You can try and shush everybody who doesn't "Just Love Israel" or paint them with a swastica and as a Hitler supporter... but still... your time is running out. China blocking the UN sanctions against Zimbabwe... shows they don't just go handing out sanctions like parking tickets. They said something about it not being important enough, doesn't shake the world up enouhh. As China's economy takes more and more control... makes you wonder what side effects will happen.
I have watched the USA from within learn to live more and more like Israelis(afraid of everything) over the last 7 years or so... and it isn't becoming of those whose fathers and mothers conquered a continent. Israelis never conquered the land they are on. They used trickery and chicanery and the Britian/UN. Ok, enough.
I did notice that story seems to have been buried.
Well, the 9 year old boy's name was Hammad Hossam Mussa.
Posted by: johnrw at July 31, 2008 10:11 PM (pvnPQ)
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July 18, 2008
SHOCKER: Media Gives Up On Losing Iraq; Transitions to Plan to Lose Afghanistan In Its Stead
We always knew they were unable to accept victory, so it perhaps shouldn't come as much of a surprise that a U.S. media unable to secure defeat in Iraq has given up on betraying that democracy, and is instead executing a pivot,
beginning an attempt to lose the Afghan war instead.
The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll found that a startling 45 percent of Americans said they do not think the war in Afghanistan is worth fighting, despite the 9/11 terrorist attacks, which provoked the war in the first place.
The growing disenchantment with the Afghan deployment hasn't reached the level of national frustration with the Iraq war, but after more than six years with U.S. troops stationed in Afghanistan and violence on the rise, Americans are becoming increasingly wary about the country's involvement.
As mentioned just yesterday, many of today's top writers, anchors, columnists, editors, producers and publishers cut their journalistic teeth during the Vietnam War era, and have never been able—nor is there evidence there there ever been a serious attempt—to shift away from covering wars through a Vietnam-era lens.
For them, wars are never worth fighting. Their editorial focus will always be:
- a push for withdrawal instead of resolving a conflict through victory;
- playing up U.S. casualties, while downplaying or ignoring enemy casualties;
- dramatic emphasis on unexpected U.S. setbacks, with a minimization of tactical and strategic successes;
- a one-sided focus on U.S. military-attributed civilian combat casualties, while largely ignoring civilian casualties caused by opposing military forces;
- an emphasis on finding Americans tired of or opposed to the conflict suffering low morale, with no attempt to present opposing populations as anything other than a stoic, unyielding monolith whose primitive will cannot be broken(so we might as well go home);
- a one-sided focus on indirect traumas suffered by the civilian population, while ignoring the poverty, healthcare, and human rights concerns caused by the opposing forces;
- an over-reliance and benefit of the doubt given to those alleging accounts detrimental to U.S. interests, where that means giving credence to allegations of civilians harmed by U.S. military operations without evidence of such harm (already commonplace in Afghan War reporting, where it seems U.S. bombs consistently hit only wedding parties made up of innocent women and children) while often ignoring direct atrocities performed by the opposing force against civilians;
- attempted moral equivalence—masked as "objectivity"— between U.S. forces and political and/or ideological movements famous for cruelty.
Journalists have been conditioned to report through such a distorted perspective that it is little wonder at all that even the "good" and "just" response of a war against the Taliban for their role in the attacks of 9/11 must now be twisted in such a way that it can be reported from the only perspective the media knows (or more accurately, cares to know) in viewing and covering wars fought by Americans. While the U.S. military has adapted to fighting new kinds of conflicts, the media is still using corrosive and corroded story templates older than much of their target audience.
"Modern" war coverage is an utterly self-defeating, self-loathing enterprise, and we bear much of the blame for what we see, for we still accept and still consume a defective news product. What motive do the media have to change, if we, the news consumers, don't clearly articulate to the industry why we are no longer buying failing newspapers, or believing that news outlets are acting without preconceived biases? We have let them stick to what is for them, a comfortable agenda.
ABC News is in no way alone in their tonal shift in Afghan coverage, as other outlets doubtlessly came before them, and certainly more news outlets will follow. They are still fighting the last war using the tactics and strategies they are most comfortable with. They are fighting to lose.
Will we let them?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Excellent post. Preaching to the choir, but excellent post. The only objection I would take would be to the risk of an over correction in reporting in the vein of your second bullet point. Obviously the MSM hyper-emphasizes US causualties while ignoring the enemy's. We should not tolerate the inverse either. Kill counts while tactically significant, especially for the trigger pullers, can artificially mask strategic goals, ala Vietnam.
We should expect our media to report the FACTS of engagements, including total forces engaged, WIA, and KIA on each side. More importantly we should not be denied analysis to the strategic importance (or insignificance) of victories or setbacks. The refusal of the MSM to report in this fashion reduces them to nothing more than propoganda flaks for the enemy, which in time of war used to be considered treason...
Thank you for the space.
Posted by: Gus Bailey at July 18, 2008 09:56 AM (LZarw)
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.. but .. but .. Afghanistan is the "good war" .. or so we have been told.
Posted by: Neo at July 18, 2008 10:46 AM (Yozw9)
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The media is worse than the terrorists. They actually have half the nation "held hostage". So sick of this bull.
Posted by: Ryan at July 18, 2008 10:48 AM (eplNU)
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Oooh! Ooooh! I know! I know! We're losing cause we don't have translators in Afghanistan because they're all in Iraq! The Obamamessiah said so!
Of course, no one told him that they speak a different languages in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that doesn't matter, a translator is a translator, right?
Posted by: C-C-G at July 18, 2008 06:45 PM (e+Bm0)
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The Fourth Estate is a FIFTH COLUMN. May they all burn in hell....soon.
Posted by: joyce at July 18, 2008 09:02 PM (4gHqM)
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Glad to see the stab in the back theory isn't dead. Keep it up guys.
Posted by: Cheney's Other Priority at July 19, 2008 10:47 AM (FkzgB)
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I've absolutely had it with the American press. My contempt for the institution could grow, I'm sure, but it has reached a point that I've wiped them all away. I have no respect for what they are as an institution any more.
The way they have handled Obama - since they built him up with some of the most incredible cheerleading I've ever seen over a year ago - was what pushed me over the edge fully recently.
But this kind of stuff is systemic too...
On my blog, when talking about the media's use of Iraq War II -- I'd bring this up with short, snotty comments about "Where is the war in Afghanistan? Is it still going? Chance of success there is much, much worse than in Iraq, but why don't we hear about Afghanistan? Why doesn't it matter?"
Well, of course, now it matters --- because reporting about Iraq can no longer suit their needs - because progress has become too good to lie about.
So, what to do? It is an election year, right?
Well, heh --- there's Afghanistan...!!
Posted by: usinkorea at July 19, 2008 01:11 PM (+io21)
Posted by: Steel pallet" rel="nofollow">钢托盘 at March 06, 2009 09:43 AM (rRj/C)
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July 17, 2008
Is The U.S. Media Ready to Concede an Iraqi Victory? Can the Democrats?
I don't think it is an exaggeration to claim that Michael Yon has spent more front-line time with combat forces in Iraq than any journalist for any media organization, so it
bears noting when he claims that "...the Iraq War is over. We won."
When another well-traveled independent, Michael Totten, pens a post stating that he is "reluctant" to claim that the war is over—noting that insurgencies don't have official end points such as surrenders—but then provides evidence that it is certainly trending in that direction, it is time to pay attention.
Both Yon and Totten make very well be correct; what remains in Iraq is not a military action best described as a "war" in a conventional sense, and with violence continuing to abate and various militant factions increasingly unable to mount sustained operations of any intensity or duration, calling it even an unconventional war is something a stretch.
Whatever conflict remains it is not a "war," and we can let others quibble over whether the best description of what now remains is a peace-keeping mission, a police action, or something else.
The Sunni insurgency is finished. The sectarian civil war is over. The conflict against al Qaeda in Iraq has been reduced to intelligence-gathering and SWAT-like raids against surviving stragglers and fractured terrorists cells. The Madhi Army has been broken, its leaders killed, captured, or forced to flee to Iran, while the rank and file have faded away as their fellow Shia turned over their weapons caches and turned in militiamen that were often merely criminal thugs. Attrition among Iranian-backed "special groups" has also rendered them incapable of sustaining more than random attacks.
Barring an unforeseen and at this point unlikely and dramatic reversal, the Iraq War is over, and we—and more importantly, the Iraqi's—won.
The U.S. media is beginning to begrudgingly concede to a new reality, but only obliquely. CNN (and Fox News) ran an AP article this morning about bored young soldiers in Iraq seeking action in "the real war in Afghanistan," because they are not seeing any combat in Iraq. It isn't however, a concession of what should be increasingly obvious.
It will be hard—and for some U.S. media outlets that took an extreme position based more upon attempts to shape the politics of the war instead of reporting the news of the conflict, almost impossible—for the U.S. media to admit that the Iraq War ended in victory. The New York Times is one of these outlets that will have a very tough time, as will the McClatchy chain of newspapers, various magazines including TIME and Newsweek, cable news channel MSNBC, and all three networks. Various fringe outlets, particularly those with strong left-leaning politics such as The Nation or Mother Jones, or online outlets such as the Huffington Post or other liberal blogs, may attempt to somehow "redefine" their way into a "loss" by changing the definition of victory, or they may simply decide to never address the subject at all, and hope instead it fades away while they draw their readers elswhere.
For those outlets that made the conflict in Iraqi an editorial attempt to "fight the last war," it will be a bitter defeat. Many of today's top writers, anchors, columnists, editors, producers and publishers cut their editorial teeth and felt at the height of their power at a time when the media shaped a narrative that ended a war and brought down a president that indeed, was a crook. But despite five years of attempts to frame it as such, Iraq was never Vietnam in the desert. The U.S. media was never able to break out of that mindset to any degree, and indeed, relished in the comparisons.
So sure were they of a U.S. defeat that they even made using local propagandists as journalists and sources part of their standard reporting, with little or any probing, vetting, or serious questions asked. From repeatedly seeking comment from an Association of Muslim Scholars openly aligned with the Sunni insurgency (typically without disclosing those insurgent ties), to regularly citing phoned-in reports from anonymous police and military sources miles or even provinces away as they called in one fake massacre after another with reckless abandon, wire services ran fake news without an attempt to vet the stories, because it fit the narrative. It didn't matter that mosques weren't burned with people inside. It didn't matter that dozens of beheaded bodies reported in sectarian violence simply didn't exist. Such stories, real or fake, portrayed the war they wanted.
Reporters and editors who ran such stories were not only not fired by their news agencies for their continued incompetence. Some were instead promoted. There was no penalty for faked or exaggerated news, because it was the extreme, the diabolical, and the hopeless that these news agencies wanted to print, and they weren't all that concerned about where the stories came from.
Now, without another defeat to place on the mantle, U.S. media outlets are unsure of how to act. While even British and Australian newspapers were declaring victory almost a year ago, American outlets simply can't make the admission that they fought the last war, and that a Congress they pushed to help lose the war was unable to hand them the defeat they think we deserved.
Ah, Congress.
Though Democrats have controlled the House and Senate, had public option on their side (thanks to the cooperative shaping of the news), and fiercely antiwar leaders such as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, Congressional Democrats were shot down over 40 times (was it over 50? I lost count) in attempts to lose the war by defunding or underfunding it.
And while the media's own attempts to frame a lost war were horrific, it was duly elected Congressmen and Senators who attacked the Presidential Administration, the military commanders, and even the solders on the front lines with the most viciousness. To this day, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Harry Reid refuse to admit that the war in Iraq is not lost, and is instead very close to being (or is already) won. John Murtha has not apologized to Marines he accused of cold-blooded murder, even as charges against all but one have been dismissed (the last has yet to come to trial).
And then there is Barack Obama.
A gifted speaker with the hardest of hard-left roots, the political neophyte and presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee has refused to admit he was wrong on the war, and though unassailable facts overran his narrative of defeat, he clung and (continues to cling) to a plan for a panicked retreat designed to create a security vacuum and lose a war he thought should never have been fought.
The media, enamored with their Obama as their last best hope for defeat, will follow him in fawning praise as he make a superficial swing through the region to "talk" to military commanders—be assured, he has no intention of actually listening—about the war in Iraq. In the end, will no doubt still return with Dubya's bulldog tenacity to his predetermined plan of defeat. His storied, heavily self-promoted anti-war wishes and a determined cry abandon the conflict at all costs has been the root cause and defining issue his campaign. Obama will cling to it with the grim, fatalistic determination of a suicide bomber.
The U.S. media has pinned their hopes on Obama as their best and perhaps only hope of bringing about an end to the Iraq war that they can cast as a defeat. Are they ready to concede that the Iraq War was won?
Not as long as they have any hope at all that Democrats can salvage a defeat.
Update: Rick Moran has related thoughts on Obama's strange redefinition of "victory" through surrender at Right Wing Nut House.
Having issues with spammers. Comments closed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Only if you are an idiot, diogenes, or someone actively seeking defeat for political advantage, like Senator Obama.
An "immediate" withdrawal is a logistic impossibility. Period. It cannot happen. We have too many men in theater, and too much costly equipment to remove. We cold not pull out in even Obama's 16 months, without leaving hundreds millions, if not billions of dollars in equipment behind, which we would obviously have to replace. And you want "immediately?"
In addition, any sudden, spastic, and arbitrary reduction in force without provisions for a smooth transition to adequately-supported Iraqi forces--a hair-brained scheme championed by the freshman Senator--would create a security vacuum the Iraqis acknowledge that they are not yet ready to fill.
To do what Obama--and obviously you--desire is to create a situation where the security gains made and peace won could potentially be lost. It's a brilliant plan if your intention is to enable rogue militiamen or criminal gangs while allowing terrorists a chance to escape or reform their cells. It's an excellent scheme if you hope to undo gains made by a new democracy, and you see a possible upsurge in violence against civilians tired of war as a political opportunity. If your goal is a desperate bid to hang an albatross around a Republican President's neck and you don't mind risking the lives of the Iraqi people, it's a brilliant idea.
To what end do you want an immediate withdrawal? So that a bunch of bitter left wingers can crow over the bodies of the civilians you helped kill, just so you can say, "I told you we should never have come here?"
ItÂ’s a pathetic truism, but a truism nonetheless: when you hear liberals discussing plans for a military withdrawal, you can be sure a genocide is around the corner.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at July 17, 2008 12:58 PM (xNV2a)
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"Whatever conflict remains it is not a "war," and we can let others quibble over whether the best description of what now remains is a peace-keeping mission, a police action, or something else."
I agree. War and mission are not always the same thing. The troops are coming home, and security is being handed over to the Iraqi's one province at a time as they are ready to handle it. I look forward to hearing Obama's 'opinions' once he gets back from Iraq. Should be entertaining.
Thanks. This was an excellent post.
Posted by: Jim at July 17, 2008 01:03 PM (F2N1M)
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as for the iraq war-i'm sorry white flag waving liberal left wingers.WE WON THEY LOST-admit it,there is no shame in admitting you and your fellow barack hussein osama supporters were wrong.now we really can say "mission accompished"!and now off to afghanistan to kick some more ass!
Posted by: sean at July 17, 2008 01:12 PM (Qu0t4)
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I would think that the question of withdrawing our armed forces or not (or how many) would and should depend on what their next mission is. What should have been amply demonstrated in the last couple of years to anybody that follows real world events in OEF and OIF, the military, our military, does more than just break things and kill people.
I find it fascinating that the oft repeated mantra of "withdrawing the troops"(by liberals) is voiced nowadays out of what appears to be sheer habit. Perhaps it's some Pavlovian response?
Perhaps it's not been fully recognized by folks, but we (the US), have a strategic presence (the US military in sizeable numbers and demonstrated capability) in the strategic center, of one of our (US) main stragegic interests (the Middle East oil fields). One would think that after realising this, even the most dimwitted would be urging us to capitalize on this fact. Does this mean a continued military presence? Damn, don't know, maybe. It's above my paygrade. Looking at US history, we still have troops stationed in many of the other places where we've liberated people. At their own request I might add. Why not let the political process work that out?
During some of my more cynical moments I wonder if the thought of losing that vision of the "last helicopter out of Iraq" is the only thing that keeps the left repeating their mantra of "BRING THE TROOPS HOME". Cheer up, it'll all be over soon and the left can move on to rewriting the history books about how the Iranians won the Iraqi war.
Posted by: Barney at July 17, 2008 01:15 PM (gbTkf)
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Are the Democrats ready to concede an Iraqi Victory?
There are six phases to every project
1) enthusiasm,
2) disillusionment,
3) panic,
4) search for the guilty,
5) punishment of the innocent,
6) praise for the non-participants.
We will know when the Democrats break into phase 6.
Posted by: Neo at July 17, 2008 01:45 PM (Yozw9)
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diogenes,
So, if the war is over in Iraq, then there isn't any problem with Obama or McCain (or even Bush for that matter) immediately bringing home the vast majority of troops. Or shifting them to Afghanistan.
Judging from your comments, you must have driven your parents nuts on summer vacations with your "Are we there yet?" routine.
Your comments further betray unfamiliarity with military SOP when it comes to redeployments of troops and materiel. There's no way you can load vehicles onto ships or aircraft until they've been thoroughly cleaned, maintenanced, and inspected--wouldn't want to import any nasty plant, animal, or insect life into the U.S., now would we? Cleaning and inspecting equipment for shipment either back to the States or elsewhere takes a lot of time. The generals are right when they say there's no way they could properly do this in 16 months--they might even be hard-pressed to do it in 24 given all the procedures that must be followed thanks to Customs, OSHA, EPA, et. al.
As for an Afghanistan "surge," you may not be keeping up with current events. It's clear that a significant reinforcement of troops in that theater is already in the planning stages and, to a certain extent, may already be quietly under way.
The MSM has been--dare I say it?--"crowing" about that recent battle in which 9 of our troops were killed. It was a tactical set-back in that area of the country and a tragic loss, no doubt about it. However, the MSM'ers would do well to remember that even though George Armstrong Custer and 250+ troops were KIA in a single day at the Little Big Horn, within months the same Indian warriors who won that battle were dead, exiled in Canada, on the run, or back on reservations. They got lots of headlines...and still lost the war.
Posted by: MarkJ at July 17, 2008 05:00 PM (ZFVlP)
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July 16, 2008
Ya-hooey!
Remember this picture from
yesterday?
It is still on Yahoo's photostream with the (still active) caption:
US soldiers secure the area at a newly installed check-point at the Babadag training facility in Tulcea, Iraq. A string of suicide attacks against Iraqi security forces killed at least 37 people on Tuesday, including 28 when two suicide bombers blew themselves up among a crowd of army recruits, security officials said. (AFP/Daniel Mihailescu)
Sharp-eyed CY reader BohicaTwentyTwo pointed out the obvious visual clues that the photo and caption quite simply doesn't match up.
The soldiers in the photos were wearing MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System) training equipment, and the blank-firing adapters on the end of each weapon (more obvious on the bright red adapter on the M4 in the foreground, though the pull-ring on the MG's black-firing adapter in the turret in the background was also clearly visible).
As blank-firing MILES training gear makes it impossible to "secure" anything, it was obvious that the photo was mis-captioned. A second look at the photo also revealed that an obsolete BDU woodland camo pattern was mixed with the new ACU camo pattern used by the Army, and the HMMWV in the photo was an unarmored version also painted in woodland, whereas the HMMWV presently deployed to Iraq is the desert tan up-armored version. Even the foliage in the background seemed suspect. A quick scan of photographer Daniel Mihailescu's work also placed him in Romania less than five days earlier. How did he get to an obscure corner of Iraq so quickly?
I was quick to blame the AFP for this error (considering their history of photo captioning errors, it was a reasonable assumption), but as slublog first noted in the comments at Hot Air, the caption above was not the caption that ran with the original photo.
This was (click here for larger).
The caption sent out by AFP (as was the screen cap sent by AFP above as evidence) read:
ROMANIA, BABADAG : US soldiers secure the area at a new installed check-point at Babadag training facility in the county of Tulcea, during a joint task force-east rotation 2008 training exercise, on July 14, 2008. Over 900 US military personnel participates at the training exercise meant to train US and Romanian soldiers in simulated combat situations as well as improving the mixt [sic]team working capabilities on the war fields like Iraq and Afganistan. AFP PHOTO / DANIEL MIHAILESCU
The photo in question had nothing to do with the events in Iraq. As noted above, the Babadag training facility in the county of Tulcea is in the country of Romania.
This photo:
- Was recaptioned by Yahoo;
- Was recaptioned to associate it with events that occurred roughly 1,500 miles away, and a day later;
- Did not be long in Yahoo's "Iraq" photostream at all.
We knew before that the originators and publishers/end users can fake photos and/or captions to create fauxtography.
Thanks to Yahoo's caption manipulation, we now know we have to worry about the middlemen as well.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:00 AM
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1
That's nuts! And kinda makes me angry. I mean how is the general public supposed to know it is being misled?
Posted by: Kat at July 16, 2008 11:06 AM (2TFxH)
2
The new media motto, 'anything to make a lie appear true'.
Posted by: Scrapiron at July 16, 2008 11:23 AM (I4yBD)
3
What was their motive? Just laziness by the Yahoo employees, who needed an Iraq photo and thought they'd make it up? That's my guess.
Posted by: Bradley J. Fikes at July 16, 2008 02:53 PM (u6JCa)
4
The left will do anything to smear our troops
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at July 16, 2008 03:23 PM (kNqJV)
5
I wonder what action AFP will take against Yahoo for altering their content? I cannot imagine they are too happy about that - that's their turf!
Posted by: Mikey NTH at July 16, 2008 05:14 PM (TUWci)
Posted by: 货架、 at March 01, 2009 10:50 AM (+Xe1F)
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July 15, 2008
AFP Blows it Again
[See the final update at the bottom -- ed.]
So I'd like AFP to explain one simple thing to me about this photo:
US soldiers secure the area at a newly installed check-point at the Babadag training facility in Tulcea, Iraq. At least 28 people were killed when two suicide bombers blew themselves up in a crowd of recruits on an Iraqi army base in an area known to be a stronghold of Al-Qaeda fighters.
(AFP/Daniel Mihailescu)
Just how is it possible that U.S. combat forces are protecting the site of the Babadag training facility in Tulcea, Iraq when equipped with non-lethal MILES gear that fires nothing but blanks?
And do we even train with MILES gear in Iraq?
I call shenanigans.
Update: The vehicle in the photo a non-up-armored HMMWV, painted in an obsolete woodland camo pattern (as are the vests of both soldiers, and helmet cover of the solder in the HMMWV), a pattern no longer used by U.S. forces in Iraq.
This picture is probably several years old, and is probably taken somewhere other than Iraq.
The photographer, Daniel Mihailescu, was theoretically in Bucharest, Romania, just five days ago, in order to take this picture. Is it even a practical possibility that the sports photographer even get from Bucharest to Iraq in less than five days?
They have the details of the event completely wrong.. did AFP they credit the wrong photographer as well?
Update: Wrong Date, Wrong Country, Wrong Event. They did, however, credit the correct photographer. Thanks to slublog in the comments at Hot Air.
Final Update: After continued digging involving the help of the U.S miltary and AFP itself, the source of this screw-up has been confirmed, and it isn't the AFP.
Surprise!
Details tomorrow; even bloggers have to sleep.
(h/t CY-reader BohicaTwentyTwo)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Would they be wearing the woodland camo colors in Iraq too? It looks awfully green in the picture.
Posted by: Sebastian at July 15, 2008 09:20 AM (q/ins)
2
What a bunch of asshats. This is clearly training in CONUS.
Posted by: The Fastest Squirrel at July 15, 2008 09:24 AM (z62e3)
3
Hey, I wore woodland cammies in Iraq! Of course, that was during Desert Storm.
Posted by: James Joyner at July 15, 2008 09:52 AM (2samc)
4
Its a recent picture, they both have ACU's on. The reason for the woodland camo on the HUMVEE and kevlar cover is most like the result of being in the reserves or national guard. I am in the reserves and our vehicles and equipment are still woodland camo
Posted by: jacob at July 15, 2008 10:05 AM (mDH4K)
5
Its most likely either a KFOR exercise or training at the JRTC at Fort Polk. I can't tell, but the Soldier to the right looks like he has the old PASGT helmet and not the ACH, so it is either an old photo or a reserve or NG unit.
Posted by: Baker at July 15, 2008 10:20 AM (4nuZr)
6
No, the photo is real. These soldiers are part of Maybe President Obambo's new military exploratory committee. Bullets hurt people and cause pain so from now on no live rounds will be used and the soldiers will just yell "BANG"!
Posted by: Gripper at July 15, 2008 10:26 AM (MQVqX)
7
Guys -
Read the bumber numbers. That's 18th MP BDE, an active duty unit. Odds are 50-50 that this was taken at Ft Bragg or Ft Polk, during a training exercise. I highly doubt that picture is anywhere in the Gulf, given the presence of MILES gear. That's some unit training for their rotation to Iraq or Afghanistan.
In any event, there's no way in hell they're guarding anything with BFA's on their weapons.
Posted by: Brant at July 15, 2008 10:27 AM (5Qy10)
8
Thanks for showing the right photo. I know when I link to the Yahoo photos and they add more, the wrong photo shows. I had faith you would find the right one. And that's some mighty fine foliage they got going on in the background.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at July 15, 2008 10:31 AM (oC8nQ)
9
Ok well actually in 2003-2004 and even up till 2005 there WERE units using woodland cammo vehicles, I deployed with the Hawai'i based 2nd Bde 25th ID, and ALL our vehicles were woodland cammo. RFI took care of the helmet covers and we got the ACHs in-country. The MILES gear can't be explained away though. I'm willing to bet its either a Guard unit, or an MP unit, judgeing by the 18th Bde. More likely an MP unit. As to where it was taken, well that's anyone's guess unless they can tell what unit it was and when it was taken
Posted by: Doc B at July 15, 2008 11:01 AM (R9l8s)
10
Nice catch. How prominent is AFP (i.e. Agence France-Presse) located at afp.com?
Posted by: Mark30339 at July 15, 2008 11:09 AM (nqCwQ)
11
"Securing the area"... with blank deflectors (that's what those red things on the ends of the barrels are).
I don't think so.
Posted by: SSG Jeff (USAR) at July 15, 2008 11:47 AM (yiMNP)
12
To add just for fun: The vehicle itself: M-998 Variant with NO uparmor package. (Standard mil-spec class 2 glass, no extra armor visable, standard windshield wipers) Standard turrent ring, (new turret rings are armored up, powered, and called the 'turtle' cause thats what it looks like) No AC unit visable, (yeah just about all of the HMMWVs now have either integrated air conditioning or add-on units) Standard radiator (front grill shows no mdifications that I see on a daily basis) and FWIW, the lights aren't taped over as 98% of them are up north, and even down here in Kuwait (train the way you fight.) and lastly, That type of bumper grill is also VERY rare in Iraq... usually they have a MUCH heavier one. Just my 2 Cents.
Posted by: Big Country at July 15, 2008 12:08 PM (niydV)
13
Just read the Hotair updates. I could understand the French having problems telling the difference between training weapons and real weapons (what, too soon?), but not being able to tell the difference between Iraq and Romania?
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at July 15, 2008 12:15 PM (oC8nQ)
14
There isnt even a Tulcea, Iraq
Posted by: Web at July 15, 2008 12:55 PM (ORNl2)
15
Maybe "Tulcea" is the mangled French pronunciation of "Tulsa".
Posted by: buck at July 15, 2008 01:54 PM (Rjnj1)
16
I thought under the potential new ROE under the possible President Obama even yelling "Bang," was unacceptable unless it was first vetted by the lawyers and then only allowed to be spoken at no more than 60 decibels in case of those being "shot" at that are sensitive to noise?
Posted by: Pat Patterson at July 15, 2008 02:00 PM (6SDmD)
17
Babadag is in Tulcea, ROMANIA. It's a V Corps training facility. This is a recent photo, but not in Iraq. See Hotair, Slublog.
Posted by: Cyfir at July 15, 2008 02:13 PM (4nuZr)
18
Anyone familiar with firearms would recognize that the weapons had blank adaptors. Blank adaptors cover the end of the muzzle and allow a weapon firing blanks to retain enough back pressure to chamber another round. Without the blank adaptor each blank would have to be chambered manually. Firing live rounds through a weapon with a blank adaptor would cause the weapon to explode in the firer's face.
Keeping the barrel of weapon unobstructed is one of those day-one things you learn if you've ever been taught anything about guns. I think this would be called a "teaching moment" for some of the media.
Posted by: CW at July 15, 2008 03:14 PM (7vYjW)
19
"Its a recent picture, they both have ACU's on. The reason for the woodland camo on the HUMVEE and kevlar cover is most like the result of being in the reserves or national guard. I am in the reserves and our vehicles and equipment are still woodland camo"
You may be a reservist, and you may train with old gear, but you do not take your trucks to Iraq, you fall in on the vehicles and equipment of the unit you are RIPing with.
Additionally. it is not HUMVEE. It is HMMWV (high mobility multipurpose wheeled vehicle). That truck specifically is a M998 (you can tell by the turret latch and a few other key identifiers, there are no M998s in theater right now.
All this coupled with the MILES gear and BFAs on their weapons would tell you that they are not securing shit.
Posted by: Matt at July 15, 2008 05:07 PM (rHW2R)
20
Tulcea and Babadag are in Romania.
Posted by: mircea at July 15, 2008 05:28 PM (A0bT7)
21
Like who cares? They pulled a file photo out so mental midgets like you can waste time complaining. Wow, we learn amazing pieces of trivia from bloggers, sure beats the dreaded MSM.
Posted by: Jakester at July 15, 2008 07:06 PM (YTXSo)
Posted by: 货架、 at March 01, 2009 10:34 AM (+Xe1F)
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July 12, 2008
Tony Snow, Dead at 53
A charming press secretary for President Bush, conservative pundit, and Fox News anchor,
Tony Snow has lost a long battle with cancer. Ed Morrissey offers a personal reflection of a genuinely nice man at
Hot Air.
More reflections will no doubt be captured throughout the day at Memeorandum.com.
Our prayers go out in support of his family.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
National Review Online's
Corner has a number of remembrances of Tony as well.
I'm sure God will be looking at hiring Tony as His press secretary now.
Godspeed, Tony.
Posted by: C-C-G at July 12, 2008 09:03 AM (n8vfc)
2
And HuffPo preemptively closes comments on their Snow story, lest their compassionate, tolerant commentariat drop the mask.
Tony was a true diamond in the rough. He will be sorely missed.
Posted by: Pablo at July 12, 2008 09:06 AM (yTndK)
3
Tony was one of the best. I shall miss his smile, humor, and candid personality.
I bet he's going to have some very interesting converstaions with Ronald Reagan.
Posted by: Mark at July 12, 2008 11:29 AM (w/olL)
4
Tony Snow will be missed. He had such a positive, optimistic attitude that it was a breath of fresh air to listen to him.
Our prayers go out to his family.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at July 12, 2008 11:48 AM (EsOdX)
5
Daily Kos and ABC are deleting any comments that rejoice in his death, so they don't look bad.
While I was at DailyKOS I saw the article and comments of civilian casualties on Afghanistan. They're pretty thrilled.
Posted by: brando at July 12, 2008 04:14 PM (Gs5OS)
6
Tony Snow was known to most of us as a tv presence, and he had a great talent for it. My eyes saw a genuinely humble man with a quick intelligent wit and a gentle sense of humor. I never saw him show anger, lose composure, or insult anyone. His answers were always cogent, thoughtful, and considerate of the questioner, even Helen Thomas.
How is it that I consider his death to be the loss of a significant goodness from the world and the kos kid's krowd feel so much hate and evil about him? Character flaw or mental illness?
Posted by: twolaneflash at July 13, 2008 11:58 AM (05dZx)
7
TwoLane, to a lefty, if you do not agree with them, you are automatically not just wrong, but
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.
Posted by: C-C-G at July 13, 2008 12:09 PM (n8vfc)
8
You faggots are too scared to show any dissenting opinions. Faggots.
Posted by: you suck at July 14, 2008 04:28 PM (WjWH7)
9
No, plenty of people care. Some of them are giddy, the rest are human beings.
Posted by: Pablo at July 14, 2008 11:39 PM (yTndK)
Posted by: 货架、 at March 01, 2009 09:57 AM (+Xe1F)
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