November 03, 2009
Sticker Shock: Cost of Government-Rationed Health Care Jumps to $ 1,200,000,000,000
The cost of the government-rationed of health care has exploded 33%,
even before coming to a vote:
The health care bill headed for a vote in the House this week costs $1.2 trillion or more over a decade, according to numerous Democratic officials and figures contained in an analysis by congressional budget experts, far higher than the $900 billion cited by President Barack Obama as a price tag for his reform plan.
While the Congressional Budget Office has put the cost of expanding coverage in the legislation at roughly $1 trillion, Democrats added billions more on higher spending for public health, a reinsurance program to hold down retiree health costs, payments for preventive services and more.
Keep in mind these are the purposefully low-balled estimates. Invariably government-mangled programs end up costing ten to twenty times as much as proposed once implemented.
The cost of government-rationed health care has ballooned from $900,000,000,000 to $1,200,000,000,000—over $300 billion—in less than a week, without ever leaving paper... just imagine how bad it will get if it ever becomes law.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
You ain't seen anything yet.
Posted by: David at November 03, 2009 11:14 AM (dccG2)
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That's just the FIRST jump. Before amendments and before serious analysis of the transparent and completely bogus revenue assumtpions. $2 trillion as it stands, minimum.
Posted by: Tully at November 03, 2009 11:34 AM (tUyDE)
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That's awful! Spending money to help sick people!?! Wow, that's just like Hitler, Obama should be spending that money on invading oil rich Muslim countries.
Posted by: salvage at November 03, 2009 05:23 PM (DEOQe)
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That's awful! Spending money to help sick people!?!
The amusing part, little troll, is that all this money will do nothing to help sick people but will make sick people even sicker. Obamacare isn't to make people healthier; it's goal is to create another Democrat constituency while providing a rich opportunity for graft and cronyism.
But you already knew that. And approve of it.
Posted by: iconoclast at November 03, 2009 08:26 PM (O8ebz)
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Stop shooting off your mouth salvage, at least i respect dude's opinions, even if i disagree, and even lipiwitz sounds more intelligent than your ramblings, and that's saying something
Posted by: MAModerate at November 03, 2009 10:04 PM (SVD0U)
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November 02, 2009
Bachmann: Storm the Gates
Firebrand Congresswoman Michele Bachmann is mad as Hell, and she
doesn't want you to take it from Congress any more.
"The American people spoke loud and clear at town hall meetings all across the country throughout August. But, it would appear that Congress didn't hear a word they had to say. The Democrats' latest health care proposal unveiled late last week may be packaged a little differently, but itÂ’s the same old bad bill as before.
"This bill is a trillion-dollar, budget-busting, government takeover of our health care system. It will put bureaucrats between people and their health care. It will lead to rationed care, hurting the most vulnerable amongst us first. It will break the bank, leaving our children to pay the bill with diminished freedoms and dwindling prosperity.
"The American people need to stand up again and make sure that Congress hears them this time. Speaker Pelosi is putting her bill on fast track to a vote – and it remains to be seen if the House will even get a chance to vote on the commonsense Republican alternatives. The people need to make a House Call on Washington this week and tell their Representatives to vote no to a government take-over of one-fifth of our economy. This is gangster government at its worst.
"I urge all Americans to come to Washington this Thursday. Come and meet up with your Representative and tell them that you want to control your health care."
"Gangster government at its worst."
That's putting it mildly.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
I am 67 years old and this is the first time, I have really feared for my country. Obama brought a strange dis-ease into the WH. I hope we can purge it before it spreads. It is like a cancer with tentacles reaching out to grasp ever part of our nation and squeeze it to death.
Posted by: eveh at November 03, 2009 12:24 AM (W3T5W)
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It's pretty funny how you guys call it tyranny whenever the majority of Americans have different opinions than your own.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 02:20 AM (/TDLA)
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Jim,
A majority of Americans are AGAINST ObamaCare. I just re-read Bachmann's remarks and didnt see the word tyranny used anywhere.
Posted by: Mick Kraut at November 03, 2009 07:53 AM (5ap+X)
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Jim,
Do you understand that once the government becomes responsible for your healthcare they will regulate and control every aspect of your life that could have an impact on your health?
In other words the federal government will regulate and control every aspect of your life.
Tyranny sounds like a fairly apt description. That any percentage of the population thinks it's a swell idea doesn't change that fact.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at November 03, 2009 08:12 AM (R7LgM)
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Mick, if you add the people who like the current bill to the people who think it doesn't go far enough towards reform I think you'll find a majority, or at least plurality.
Stephen, do you understand that a public option does not equal governmental control of your health care much less control of every aspect of your life that could impact ones health? Besides, people sure seem to like Medicare.
The overblown fear-mongering reminds me of the response some folks on the left had to The Patriot Act. The sky is always falling!
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 09:04 AM (/TDLA)
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Rasmussen:
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That's down from 45% a week ago but unchanged from two weeks ago.
Fifty-four percent (54%) now oppose the legislative effort, up three points since last week.
Seventy-three percent (73%) of liberals support the plan, but just 18% of conservatives agree.
Only 23% of all voters Strongly Support the plan while nearly twice as man (44%) are Strongly Opposed.
As has been the case for months, Democrats favor the plan while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party are opposed. The latest numbers show support from 69% of those in the president's party. The plan is opposed by 80% of Republicans and a plurality (48%) of unaffiliated voters.
Almost twice as many are strongly opposed as strongly favor government-rationed health care.
We ARE the majority.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 03, 2009 09:05 AM (gAi9Z)
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I knew you'd run to Rasmussen!
You didn't address the fact that a healthy percentage of those who oppose the plan do so because they don't think it goes far enough. You can use all caps all you like but it doesn't make it true.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 09:17 AM (/TDLA)
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If conservatives are organizing in Iowa to send pork-loving Grassley home, we can send them all home. Time to reboot this government.
Posted by: HatlessHessian at November 03, 2009 09:22 AM (7r7wy)
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Jim,
Link please. Where are all of these people who oppose because it doesnt go far enough? If it is a fact to be addressed then produce the data.
And if you have an issue with Rasmussen here is an amalgam of polls...
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthplan.php
People may well want what they consider to be "reform" but I think it is clear that they dont want this...they dont want a government takeover. That isnt fearmongering.
Posted by: Mick Kraut at November 03, 2009 09:38 AM (5ap+X)
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Mick, I know you've seen dozens of polls showing 60-70% support for a public option or even single payer system. Those are the people who want the current bills to go farther.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 09:48 AM (/TDLA)
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Jim,
No I have not seen "dozens of polls" showing support for a single payer system or the public option.
I am sure that any population wanting public option or single payer systemes would indeed want the bills to go further, I just challenge the 60%-70% number you are presenting.
The fact that there have been no links provided by you lead me to believe that there arent any recent polls reflecting this data.
If there were I have to think that the Conyers bill would be flying through the congress. With 70% approval on the issue and complete control of the legislative and executive branches would make passage easier than falling down for the administration.
The fact that Obama, Pelosi and Reid havent passed something now is a direct reflection on how unpopular the idea is. The Republicans cannot stop them. Why havent the run something through and declared victory yet?
Posted by: Mick Kraut at November 03, 2009 10:51 AM (5ap+X)
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Jim,
You say the public option doesn't represent total control of the health care industry in one breath and then in the other you claim that there are large percentages of the population who feel the current proposals - all of of which include the public option - don't go far enough?
How far do you think these people want to go?
The stated goal of many on the left - including the president - is a single-payer government run system of healthcare.
We are already half-way to socialized medicine and it doesn't matter to me if they are only trying to get to 3/4 socialized medicine with the current bills. They are going the wrong way.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at November 03, 2009 11:02 AM (R7LgM)
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Jim,
I like the way you make a statement of fact when you clearly don't have any idea as to what you are talking about.
Fact, most people hate medicare and medicaid. The fact is they don't have a choice. Insurance companies are not allowed to compete for their dollar, even if they wanted to. Doctors find the system does not pay anything and is approaching levels at which they can not make a profit. Cardiovascular surgeons have been drived out of business due to targeted price reductions in the cardiology area, cardiologist are not far behind. Hospitals are being put out of business by medicare. This has to do with the very poor reimbursements not competitive action.
If you don't think that single payor is socialized medicine, then you are in sad shape. The reason that a larger percent of people don't oppose the bill is they don't understand it. Once they do, things will not be nice.
Posted by: David at November 03, 2009 11:42 AM (dccG2)
14
Jim, how do you propose to solve the bankruptcy crises facing Medicare? What makes you feel the government option will not also bankrupt itself? Considering the debt crises the USA now has does it make sense to add to it?
One of the Democrats main issues with the present health care system is it's cost. Why then are they proposing to increase taxes to pay for their health care bill if one issue is its cost?
Why drastically change a system when ALL polls show 80% of the people are satisfied with their present health care and insurance? If you were in business, would you fundamentally change your business plan if 80% of your customers were satisfied or would you fine tune your business plan instead?
Posted by: Rick at November 03, 2009 12:28 PM (FWmwx)
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Sorry guys, I thought the public option numbers were common knowledge, here are a few recent polls:
Rassmussen: 57% for the public option
http://newsday.today.com/2009/08/20/rasmussen-poll-shows-americans-want-public-option/
Quinnipiac 61%-34% for a public option
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/10/08/quinnipiac-most-americans-support-public-option/
CBS 62%-31% for a public option
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/20/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5401123.shtml
Doctors support a public option over private only by 73%-27%.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112818960
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 12:35 PM (3GzXA)
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And people, again my point wasn't to try and argue the merits of private insurance vs a public option vs single payer with you guys, I understand we're on opposite sides of the issue.
My point is that like it or not, the public option has majority popular support, which makes politicians voting for it something more like democracy in action than tyranny. Votes and voters matter. You ARE NOT the majority.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 12:54 PM (3GzXA)
17
Oh, Jim, do you ever tire of childish games?
Of
course the majority of Americans would prefer that their fellow citizens obtain health insurance... few of us are monsters.
But there is a world of difference between a general desire for greater health care coverage and the merits of a specific proposal (or raft of proposals), a fact that was noted when Hillarycare was proposed that remains unchanged.
The number of people who strong favor this current proposal by radical Democrats is a distinct minority (almost half) when compared to those strongly aligned against it.
Americans generally agree that the system should be reformed, but we overwhelmingly reject the monstrosity that the Democrats have attempted to use as a weapon against capitalism.
Now, do you understand the difference between accepting a concept, and rejecting a flawed implementation of that concept, or do you need that difference explained to you?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 03, 2009 01:00 PM (gAi9Z)
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Bob, you're the one playing games, 60-40% in favor of a public option, not "that their fellow citizens obtain health insurance" or "a general desire for greater health coverage". A public option.
The current proposal isn't at all radical, it's full of hedges to try and get Blue Dog support and a lone Republican. If it were radical, like a true public option without opt outs and triggers, it would have the same 60% support.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 01:07 PM (3GzXA)
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Jim, I asked you 6 questions and would enjoy your answers.
Posted by: Rick at November 03, 2009 01:45 PM (FWmwx)
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Jim, you're trying to be cute (or are simply obtuse), but no one is going to fall for your word play.
You attempt to conflate support for a vague general sentiment of support for a concept into support for a flawed bit of legislation, and it just isn't honest, only any level.
The number of Americans strongly opposed to the current bills collectively known as "Obamacare" outnumber those strongly in support of it by almost 2-1. Period. End of story. Those are the objective facts.
Quit trying to mislead people by citing a poll that measures "A" and claiming it supports "B", or you will be banned from this site.
Is that perfectly clear?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 03, 2009 01:48 PM (gAi9Z)
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Bob you take the result of one poll, which yes says a majority of Americans do not like the current bills in the Senate and House -- note they are two very different bills so it's even less clear what people like and don't like about them -- and try and claim that is the same thing as support for the paragraph from Bachmann, or support for your own views on health care -- it isn't.
Yes you and Bachmann are angry, so are a lot of other people -- but not for the same reasons and if we steer closer to democracy than tyranny we would end up with a more radical bill. OK?
What is more important Bob, whether the public dislikes a bill (or parts of two bills), or why they dislike a bill ? I'm suggesting the why part matters more, and the evidence that points to what those reasons are does not support your take on the issue.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 02:04 PM (3GzXA)
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Jim, OK, I can assume my questions are not important enough for your response. However, I can also presume you recognize the answers would illustrate in reality you should be opposed to the "Obamacare" proposals.
Posted by: Rick at November 03, 2009 02:28 PM (FWmwx)
23
Rick I'm sorry but I don't want to spend all day writing answers to a list of questions from you and others. It's a blog, I commented on the initial post, and tried to explain my comment, I did not sign up to host a lecture series.
But no, I'm not a big fan of the current proposals, I'd favor a single payer system where our health care dollars go to Drs, nurses, and hospitals, not insurance companies. Which brings us full circle. If we're going to storm the Hill to get a Bill the people want, it's not going to be a Bill you, CY, and Michelle like.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 02:32 PM (3GzXA)
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Jim, it will only take a few minutes, not all day!
Posted by: Rick at November 03, 2009 02:39 PM (FWmwx)
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It takes all day when you have to fabricate information.
Posted by: MANstreammedia at November 03, 2009 02:51 PM (5q/vg)
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Rick answers usually take a lot longer to write than questions.
For example here's a couple for you guys:
Which protest of the Medicare D expansion, did you attend and/or support? If you did not protest the bill what did you like best about it?
Did you agree with Cantor's vote, why, why not? How about Boehner and DeLay?
What impressed you most as fiscal conservatives about the funding mechanisms provided for in that bill?
Assuming you want Medicare/Medicaid scrapped, how do you propose covering the seniors and poor who currently receive those benefits, and how will that coverage get paid for?
And so forth...
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 03:48 PM (3GzXA)
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Jim,
Your stats are suspect. You indicated 73% support from physicians. I eat lunch with a room full of doctors in different cities every day and have never met one of these doctors who support socialized medicine. The only ones in my area that favor the public option are those at the medical school as they know nothing of medical economics and are hard leftist. You might wonder why doctors are against the federal government taking over our health. That is because many have trained in government run hospitals and know the evils. They are not going to tolerate that system taking care of their families, much less their patients. They know that medicare and medicaid are broke as is our country and that the cost of these programs is beyond comprehension. So get real and get substantial stats if you are going to argue the issue. As it is, the concept is tearing the country apart and that would actually be a good thing.
Posted by: David at November 03, 2009 03:48 PM (dccG2)
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Jim, I'm happy you oppose "Obamacare" and agree to fine tune a system that 80% of the people are satisfied with rather than fundamentally changing it.
Welcome aboard!!
Posted by: Rick at November 03, 2009 04:00 PM (FWmwx)
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David,
I referenced a survey that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine, you are referencing conversations you've had over lunch. I understand not all Dr.s think alike, but seriously, my stats are suspect?!?
I will give you this one for free, the AMA is against a public option just as I believe they were against the evils of Medicare. You know, the same Medicate Bachmann (suddenly) wants to protect.
Posted by: Jim at November 03, 2009 05:15 PM (3GzXA)
30
"The American people spoke loud and clear at town hall meetings all across the country throughout August."
Yeah, but more Americans spoke even louder last November.
It's weird that you guys didn't notice that.
Posted by: salvage at November 03, 2009 05:24 PM (DEOQe)
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"Yeah, but more Americans spoke even louder last November"
That was November 2008, but August was 2009.
Posted by: Rick at November 03, 2009 06:11 PM (FWmwx)
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Jim,
When you read medical material, you have to have a certain amount of critical analysis. The great New England Journal is about a biased as the New York Times. I would certainly not quote them on issues of this nature and I am very careful on general medical issues. My analysis is far superior. But I really don't care. I sense you are somewhat young. If this passes you will not be very happy in a few years. I will be ok, except for the enormous taxes and the ruin to the economy. As to the AMA, who care what they think? They only represent 30% of doctors and even those don't give them much concern. They are basically a bunch of older doctors that have never really had much of a practice. That is how they have time for the meetings.
As to your reference to medicare, it is a disaster. That is why they are trying to pass this measure. Medicare and medicaid are the primary reasons for the high cost of medical care.
But it seems that all you want to do is argue and are not really interested in learning anything.
Posted by: David at November 03, 2009 08:17 PM (ZgM5r)
33
jim,
I actually found your NEJM reference. I can't believe you sited this. First, it was AMA physicians. Only 2100 people responded to the survey. It is clear that the questions where arranged in a manner to assure a positive response to the public options. In short, it was a set up. If you are going to site articles, at least try to critique the material.
Posted by: David at November 03, 2009 08:50 PM (ZgM5r)
34
Dear David,
Again, you are citing...people you've overheard at lunch. A far superior analysis indeed. What pray tell is their favorite flavor of jello?
And not to be too mean, but can you read? The AMA, whatever it's strengths and weaknesses may be as an organization, is on your side in this, they are dead set against a public option.
In short, please pass the salt.
Posted by: Jim at November 04, 2009 01:33 AM (/TDLA)
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No jim, the AMA has come out for public option. I am suspecious of your ability to analyse data and the underlying meaning of issues. The use of the NEMJ article is a classic example.
Posted by: David at November 04, 2009 11:18 AM (dccG2)
36
How much does Jim plan on spending for new federal prisons to incarcerate those who flat out refuse to pay the fines for non-participation?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 05, 2009 12:33 PM (uCIa5)
37
the AMA has come out for public option.
And only 20% of practicing doctors are AMA members.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 05, 2009 12:35 PM (uCIa5)
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"Land of the Greed and Home of the Slave."
Jeremiah Wright, Obama's mentor of two decades,
speaks:
A new video of Jeremiah Wright has surfaced, showing Barack Obama's pastor of 20 years praising Marxism and discussing his ties to communists in El Salvador and Nicaragua and the Libyan government. Equally important, Wright is being introduced in the video by Robert W. McChesney, co-founder of Free Press, an organization which has come under scrutiny for its links to the Obama Administration and dedication to the transformation and control of the private media in the U.S.
In an article in the socialist Monthly Review, "Journalism, Democracy, and Class Struggle," McChesney declared, "Our job is to make media reform part of our broader struggle for democracy, social justice, and, dare we say it, socialism."
In the video, which captures Wright's appearance at a September 17, 2009, anniversary celebration of Monthly Review, Wright said that while the "corporate media" provide a "binary lens" of the world, in such terms as "communist versus Christian," Monthly Review offers what it calls "no-nonsense Marxism."
He added: "You dispel all the negative images we have been programmed to conjure up with just the mention of that word socialism or Marxism."
He called America "land of the greed and home of the slave."
It's a nice Republic we have, if we can keep it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Posted by: Brad at November 02, 2009 06:55 PM (eEdXg)
2
"land of the greed and home of the slave.".....
nice to know he has the same opinion of Ear Leader's administration as i do.....
what a scumbag.
Posted by: redc1c4 at November 03, 2009 10:24 AM (d1FhN)
3
What is Reverend Wrong's point if any. Greed is a nature part of the human condition. We are all greedy. Last time I checked the Reverend was living in a million dollar house. He sure has never taken a vow of poverty.
If there were such thing as a true Marxist and the Reverend Wrong were one, he'd have twenty poor Chicago families living in his former house.
As for Slavery, the Reverend would be better served condemning slavery where is still exists today and not were is was abolished one hundred forty years ago.
Posted by: DavidL at November 03, 2009 11:31 AM (AK8DM)
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D'oh! CNN Falls for Long-Debunked Kilimanjaro Global Warming Claim
This is CNN:
The ice and snow that cap majestic Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania are vanishing before our eyes.
If current conditions persist, climate change experts say, Kilimanjaro's world-renowned glaciers, which have covered Africa's highest peak for centuries, will be gone within the next two decades.
"In a very real sense, these glaciers are being decapitated from the surface down," said Lonnie Thompson, professor of earth sciences at Ohio State University. Thompson is co-author of a study on Kilimanjaro published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The study's authors blame the disappearing ice on increases in global temperatures and diminished snowfall at Kilimanjaro's summit.
Previous studies of Kilimanjaro's glaciers have relied on aerial photographs to measure the rate of the retreating ice. For this new survey, scientists climbed the mountain and drilled deep into the glaciers to measure the volume of the ice fields atop the 19,331-foot (5,892-meter) peak.
And this is reality:
"Kilimanjaro is a grossly overused mis-example of the effects of climate change," said University of Washington climate scientist Philip Mote, co-author of an article in the July/August issue of American Scientist magazine.
Mote is concerned that critics will try to use the article to debunk broader climate-change trends.
He hastens to add that global warming is, indeed, responsible for the fact that nearly every other glacier around the globe is melting away. Kilimanjaro just happens to be the worst possible case study.
Rising nearly four miles from the plains of eastern Tanzania, Kilimanjaro has seen its glaciers decline steadily for well over a century — since long before humans began pumping large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, Mote points out.
Most of the world's glaciers didn't begin their precipitous declines until the 1970s, when measurable global warming first appeared.
Also, recent data from Kilimanjaro show temperatures on the 19,340-foot volcano never rise above freezing. So melting triggered by a warmer atmosphere can't be the reason the small summit ice sheet is retreating about 3 feet a year, said Georg Kaser, co-author of the new article and a glaciologist at the University of Innsbruck in Austria.
Man-made global warming (creating glacial melt) cannot be a factor in a glacier disappearing if the temperature of the glacier never comes close to rising above freezing (which is underlined by the fact that the global temperature has been declining since 1998).What is far more likely is that constantly lower amounts of participation over the past century mean that the glaciers are in a natural state of decline, and state they have been in since at least 1912.
What is causing the decline?
Instead, melt on Kilimanjaro is caused by sublimation, which turns ice directly into water vapor at below-freezing temperatures—essentially the glacier gets a giant case of moisture-sapping freezer burn.
Thompson has been beating this drum since 2002, but the fact remains that his claim that man-made global warming in the cause of the glacial retreat is a farce.
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Didn't Katie Couric try to climb this mountain as a demonstration of the effects of "global warming" and bad weather forced them down.
Posted by: Penfold at November 02, 2009 05:58 PM (lF2Kk)
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He hastens to add that global warming is, indeed, responsible for the fact that nearly every other glacier around the globe is melting away. Kilimanjaro just happens to be the worst possible case study.
Um...what about this line? So Kilimanjaro is some exception, but global warming is to blame everywhere else? Do you read what you post?
Posted by: Dave at November 03, 2009 09:56 AM (UTz4+)
3
Another likely explanation is the deforestation of the slops around Kilem that has occurred over the last century. Trees and vegetation produce water vapor (think the Smokies) which produces the cloud cover that blocks the sun from hitting the glacier. This has all but disappeared. Air temperature has remained constantly below freezing, but there is no cloud cover surrounding the top of the mountain to shield it from the sun. Amazing how the effects of the sun's rays and cloud cover never factor into these people's explanation of melting ice.
Posted by: Landru at November 03, 2009 10:34 PM (my38P)
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...(which is underlined by the fact that the global temperature has been declining since 199
...
Wrong again, Bob.
Check out
"Global Warming at a glance". It's at Junk Science, albeit a denialist website, but one with at least enough integrity to set forth the relevant data relatively untouched.
See how all of the graphs, which represent global mean temperatures according to the various data sources, are ascending? Each and every one? So, even though 1998 was the warmest year on recent record, the 2000's are generally warmer than the 1990's.
Hey, and don't shoot the messenger, you the people.
Posted by: Dolf Fenster at November 04, 2009 02:43 PM (vD2Hz)
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No Obligation to Indecency
As human beings living in tribes and later large social structures of cities, states, and nations, we agree (implicitly or expressly) to abide by rules and laws. These agreements are meant to establish order and security in what otherwise would be a chaotic and dangerous world.
As part of the social contract of our democratic Republic, we follow the laws set down to us by the House of Representatives and the Senate, deliberative bodies elected from and by the people.
But laws and social contracts are not immutable or ironclad, especially when they invalidate liberty and justice, and infringe upon the inalienable rights of man.
When the elected become corrupt, and instead focus on using their offices to build more power for themselves instead of working for the betterment of the society, then they have violated the sacred trust of population.
There are various articles of legislation currently being manipulated by the Democratic Party in the House of Representatives, Senate, and White House that are an affront to the ideals this nation was founded upon.
It was during such a failure of the social contract between the people and their distant government that these enduring words were authored:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Such words and such a dissolution of the contract between the government and the governed should never be entered into lightly or in haste; even the best outcome of such a conflict stands to wreck the surviving nation while the echoes of that decision reverberate, and the distinct probability exists that the resulting congress may result in an amalgamation no better than the last, with far too many broken bonds and bodies to show for an enfeebled change.
Nor is there any reason to suspect that the existing social remedy of the ballot box is too far corrupted to cease having power, despite the best attempts at collusion between power brokers, nationalized community organizations, and special interests.
But history has shown us that ever society has a breaking point where the State becomes more powerful than the people it represents, and laws are thereafter written for the benefit of the government instead of the governed. This we call tyranny.
There should be very little doubt at all that the current Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, represents the essence of that tyrannical impulse. She leads men and women who have never trusted in the resourcefulness of their fellow man, and never understood that a man's dreams and aspirations are a far more powerful and driving force for success than any diktat. They represent law that makes men subservient to the state, and ultimately to themselves.
Likewise, Harry Reid, the present Senate Majority Leader, has little use for true social justice, just a thirst for social control and obedient, docile constituencies. His faction schemes and plots, disemboweling individual liberties and disinterring pogroms that should have long ago been discarded "on the ash heap of history" as one of our most eloquent leaders recounted in a reclaimed phrase.
But perhaps no one has less faith in the promise of America than our current President, Barack Obama.
Whether his vision of what this nation could accomplish and what it should represent was tarnished in a youth spent living in a foreign nation, or was twisted in a transformational experience that saw him aligned with murderous terrorists and race-obsessed radicals is really of little consequence.
He has shown himself to be a friend of radicals and an alien to the core beliefs of our nation, ready to defend our enemies at a moment's notice, propping up dictatorships, and caring more about the welfare of terrorists than pregnant women, but that is his right as an elected official, and our curse for listening to his oratory instead of discerning his lack of substance, character, and decency.
But our obligation to the law and the lawmakers is not a one-way social contract.
If our lawmakers abandon the founding principles of this nation, and use their power to obfuscate, deceive, bully and strip basic rights away from the people, then they are forfeit to the social contract, even if they have managed to "abide" by the laws they've written in support of the state.
Ultimately, laws are only lawful if the govern find them fair and justified. All else is dogma.
And so when power-mad legislatures and executives use direct lies and emotional rhetoric in order to deceive their constituencies in an attempt at tyranny that serves to increase their power while undermining the principles that has enabled this government of the people, for the people and by the people, we owe them no more allegiance.
One may even begin to speculate on whether we owe them civility for their transgressions, which amount to a fundamental betrayal of our social contract as Americans.
Unlike other nations and states in times both past and present, we have the possibility of correcting our mistakes and removing the disloyal via the ballot instead of the barrel of a gun.
Let us hope that our elected officials recognize, however, that our patience is not finite, nor our obligation to bear their indecent assault on our liberties unlimited.
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Matrix Producer to Film Muhamad Flick
Obviously, Roman Polanski must direct.
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I was going to say the same thing. How in the world are they going to do a movie about Muhamad without showing Muhamad and causing riots throughout the Islamic world?
The Polanski connection comes from the fact that Polanski raped a 13 year old girl while Muhamad married a 6 year old and slept with her at age 9. Both had sex with kids.
Posted by: James S. at November 03, 2009 12:35 AM (J2ejK)
Posted by: -30- at November 03, 2009 06:01 PM (pkbux)
3
I would not be surprised if Polanski gets involved in this flick as part of his "rich or famous people get community service and probation" sentence.
Posted by: DoorHold at November 08, 2009 11:32 AM (EeTHH)
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They Need a New Name: How About "Organizing for Identity Theft?"
Big Brother Democrats aren't just watching you, they're handing out your personal identification to their cronies in a
massive invasion of personal privacy (h/t
Instapundit).
The red boxes are around questions asking for the person's e-mail address and what time of day they plan to vote.
So, now yours truly, a perfect stranger from outside of New York's 23rd Congressional District, knows the Name, Phone Number, Age, and Gender of 25 residents of NY-23.
Because the e-mail I received is part of a large orchestrated campaign, an undetermined but far from small number of perfect strangers predominantly from outside of New York's 23rd Congressional District will know this information about hundreds — if not thousands — of residents of NY-23.
Additionally, if I were to carry out the calls (which I of course will not), I would have the cell phone number, e-mail address, and planned voting time of any person in the group of 25 who responds to my request for that information.
It doesn't take much imagination to see what could happen, but I guess I need to draw a picture for old Mitch:
- With a person's e-mail addy and cell number, a spammer can put them on every junk mail and calling list there is.
- Thanks to easily available Internet phone directories, criminals can learn where these people live. By asking a few additional questions, they can learn who lives alone. If they also learn when they won't be home (i.e., out voting) and live reasonably close, they can steal them blind while they're away.
- Even more scary, a violent criminal can use answers to OFA's official questions combined with other information they might learn through probing to commit violent acts when these people ARE home.
Not just organized, but organizing for crime... that's the Chicago Way.
* * *
On a more serious note, I've been following the NY-23 situation, but felt others in the media and blogosphere have covered it in sufficient detail that any additional "me, too" commentary was superfluous.
That said, it seems that the Conservative Party was right to run Doug Hoffman against RINO Dede Scuzafavor (or whatever her name is) and Democrat Bill Owens, which was clearly revealed when Scuzzy threw her support behind the Democratic candidate despite receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars (and perhaps as much a sa cool $1 million) in financial support from the Republican Party. Needless to say, I think she'll find the GOP's purse strings with be cut off in her next local election, and I suspect her official transition to the Democrat party will be coming soon (if not immediately, if rumors that she is doing robo-calls for the Democrat are true).
The effort of the national DNC and associated activist groups in this race is fascinating considering this is a race for a one-year term. Obviously, they are far more concerned about the trendsetting and symbolism of a very conservative candidate besting the squishy GOP moderates they would much rather prefer to face, not to mention the Democratic candidate that they want to win. And besting them handily he is: the most recent polls show the conservative Hoffman dominating the race over Owens 54%-38%.
If Hoffman wins in a dominating fashion as the polls are suggesting, it could potentially ignite a trend of conservative candidates to be fielded against Republican moderates in primaries, not with the expectation that the resulting conservative versus Democrat race would amount to a protest vote, but with the expectation that the conservative candidate may actually stand a far better chance of actually getting elected than the squishy RINO or the Democrat. That has to terrify not just an Obama White House worried that their brand is rapidly becoming an albatross, but status quo-invested moderate Republicans as well.
Such a turn of events would only embolden the grass roots conservative movement, but we'll have to see if the election is a bellwether of a momentum shift, or an endpoint. As Glenn Reynolds notes, it isn't just the election, but what happens afterward that matters.
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HAHAHA! YES! Obama became President so he could harvest email and phone numbers to pass on to his criminal buddies who are going to break into people's homes while they're voting! Then steal their identity, of course.
You figured it out Wingnut Homes.
Posted by: salvage at November 02, 2009 10:10 AM (DEOQe)
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No, salvage, they're just stupid, clumsy, and instinctively underhanded (not necessarily in that order).
I suppose you have no problem with what they're doing?
Posted by: Thomas Blumer at November 02, 2009 10:18 AM (/LYzA)
3
Will somebody please primary McAmnesty's a$$!!!!
Posted by: TimothyJ at November 02, 2009 12:13 PM (IKKIf)
4
I would suggest that the reason there are moderate Republicans representing many districts is that they actually somewhat resemble their constituencies, and forcing hard-right conservatives through the primaries in those swing districts is not likely to produce a net gain for the GOP. For this principle in action, witness the 2006 race for the AZ 8th.
What's going on in the NY 23rd is somewhat unique, and not a particularly good template for other swing districts.
Posted by: Tully at November 02, 2009 01:00 PM (tUyDE)
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I submit that they are not gathering this information so that someone can use it to rob you of your possessions - they are going to use it to rob you of your vote! Not going to vote? Great we'll send someone to vote for you. It happened to me. I showed up to vote only to be turned away because "You already voted!" Think about it - when was the last time you were asked to produce ID when you went to vote? Requiring state or federal identification to vote supposedly dissuades minorities, the elderly, and less affluent. HA!
Posted by: Pierre at November 02, 2009 04:17 PM (sFVMH)
6
You betcha! Pierre is exactly right. This is really about vote fraud.
As for the NY-23 race, good riddance to the million dollar RINO.
Posted by: Brad at November 02, 2009 07:09 PM (eEdXg)
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Riddle Me This...
Why is it that grass roots activist opponents of the President are
gleefully derided as "teabaggers," when it is the subservient liberal special interest groups that worshipped him up until the election—only to be cast aside afterwards with one broken policy promise after another— are the ones left with a bad taste in their mouths?
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Um... that's not a riddle... it doesn't actually make any sense... why don't you take a deep breath and try again? You seem to have several bits of ignorant rant crashing into each other there.
And didn't the "teabaggers" name themselves that?
Posted by: salvage at November 02, 2009 08:06 AM (DEOQe)
Posted by: Mark Harvey at November 02, 2009 08:08 AM (SM+9r)
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I guess salvage needs some, um, er, salvaging?
Posted by: Mark Harvey at November 02, 2009 08:09 AM (SM+9r)
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And didn't the "teabaggers" name themselves that?
He's awfully coy about it, but I think Anderson Cooper is playing for the other team.
Posted by: Pablo at November 02, 2009 08:33 AM (yTndK)
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Salvage,
The Tea PARTIERS named themselves after the Revolutionary War Patriots in Boston who tossed a shipload of British tea into the harbor to express their displeasure with the tax on tea. It's known as The Boston Tea Party. Look it up.
The modern day Tea Partiers were given the name you bring up by a vulgar minded news anchor who was, no doubt, thinking of HIS own favorite activity: Tea Bagging, a Gay oral sex practice. That is, they do it with their mouths and scrotums.
Now. The Conservative Republicans whom the dems tried to deride by calling them teabaggers are on the rise; they're getting louder, stronger, and more numerous.
The Obama worshippers, on the other hand, are being tossed aside by the Obama administration which also tossed aside the promises it made to these worshippers during the campaign.
The reason this doesn't make sense to you is that you can't grasp simple facts that contradict your idealistic view of your leader. He says one thing, and does another -- a LOT!
So, be careful whom you call ignorant until you can understand basic terms, and basic facts that contradict what your leaders tell you.
Posted by: Bill Smith at November 02, 2009 08:38 AM (vUEiP)
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"The modern day Tea Partiers were given the name you bring up by a vulgar minded news anchor who was, no doubt, thinking of HIS own favorite activity: Tea Bagging, a Gay oral sex practice. That is, they do it with their mouths and scrotums."
hahahaha. Exactly. When Libs chant about Teabagging, it's not a sophmoric play on words. Thay actually believe that tens of thousands people are doing that, publicly and in unison.
Ask one. They'll confirm it.
It's one of the Libs' greatest fantasys. Weird.
Posted by: brando at November 02, 2009 09:50 AM (IPGju)
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Oh. Yes, "Tea Partiers" sounds less gay.
Really, it does.
And from what I can tell they are much like this post; angry stupid children who are just screaming because they didn't get their way last election.
It's particularly funny when they howl about "government overspending" when it comes to something like helping your fellow Americans with their medical bills but don't say anything about the billions blown in Iraq that kills your fellow Americans.
And yes, they're more teabaggers than ever!
No, not really.
Posted by: salvage at November 02, 2009 10:17 AM (DEOQe)
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See? He believes it. Yuck.
Posted by: brando at November 02, 2009 10:49 AM (IPGju)
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Someone has to be the teabag-ee. Hence, the bad taste.
Really though, did you actually have to have it explained? I kind of figured it would have been obvious.
Posted by: Larry at November 04, 2009 05:20 AM (xa1/W)
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Explosion at Bragg OP Kills Civilian
If I recall correctly, we're in the middle of
Robin Sage, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how
exploding civilians could be related to a military training exercise.
An explosion on a Fort Bragg observation point killed a civilian Friday, Fort Bragg spokeswoman Jackie Thomas said Sunday.
Two civilians were in the area when the blast went off at 12:15 p.m., Thomas said.
One was killed, the other was not injured. The names of the victims were not released. Thomas said they were not Army employees.
It sounds like these civilians were probably not supposed to be there, but the statement is so antiseptic that we can't be sure exactly what is going on.
I'm going to recall an old NCIS episode and wonder if they might have been hunting scrap metal on a bombing range and set off unexploded ordnance.
Update: When I'm good, I'm good. Score one for Darwin:
Fort Bragg officials say a civilian killed in an explosion at the North Carolina Army post was scavenging for scrap metal when he stepped on a round and it exploded.
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So he was looking for scrap ordnance, eh? Looks like he found some, the hard way.
Posted by: Tim at November 02, 2009 05:15 PM (3Wewy)
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October 30, 2009
Propping Up The Dead
In a more barbaric portion of our nation's past, it was not uncommon to prop up the bodies of the newsworthy dead to take pictures with them. It is a vile act still practiced by some crude thugs in one particularly callous and self-serving sect. You know them as the Democrats.
Whether tripping over each other to use caskets as a lectern at the funerals of a Wellstone or a Kennedy, there is never a moment too solemn for liberals to soil if the slightest political opportunity presents itself.
Our odious President Barack Obama is as feckless and sociopathic as his political brethren, and carted up a helicopter full of photographers and journalists to take to Dover Air Force Base. He wanted to use the bodies of those who died in Afghanistan as a photo op, in a move so blatantly calculated that even the New York Times was forced to comment on it.
A small contingent of reporters and photographers accompanied Mr. Obama to Dover, where he arrived at 12:34 a.m. aboard Marine One. He returned to the South Lawn of the White House at 4:45 a.m.
<Â…>
The images and the sentiment of the president's five-hour trip to Delaware were intended by the White House to convey to the nation that Mr. Obama was not making his Afghanistan decision lightly or in haste.
Predictably, the Times edited away the offending truth, but no before it was already documented.
Only one family of 18 would allow Obama his cheap theatrics. 14 suffered through a meeting with the President and his surrounding entourage during what should have been a solemn moment of reclamation. Four families, apparently, were able to escape the White House-orchestrated circus entirely.
But liberals rotted to the core and rooted in the past instinctively returned to their traditional primal howl, with something called a Blue Texan at firedoglake using Obama's irreverent, calculated photo op to attack—who else?—George Bush.
At Blackfive, a real American, a soldier who understands the solemnity of service and loss, explains to the jackals:
Turning a solemn occasion into a photo op that becomes about you is not respectful, it is sorry. President Bush knew that and chose to show his respect in private to the people who really matter, the Gold Star families.
President Bush met with families individually and in groups, crying with them, praying with them, often with tears streaming down his cheeks. Those moments were private and respectful.
The left wants the bodies of the fallen stacked into a podium, cameras flashing, reporters intruding upon the dead and grieving so that they can project a false sincerity.
We're forced to ask: if the 18th family had refused to have their son's casket photographed, would Obama have shown up at all?
Sadly, I suspect we all know the answer.
Update: Like most liberals, Blue Texan can't understand why Obama's photo-op the other night in Dover was so loathsome.
Her sophomoric response an attempts to invokes a version of the "your guy did it too!" defense, trying to hide Obama's craven cynicism behind President Reagan's 1983 visit to Andrews Air Force Base to meet the bodies of Americans killed in a terrorist attack on the U.S. Embassy in Beirut.
Context, of course, is paramount.
Reagan's visit—as a transcript of the radio address Blue Texan cited attests—was part of the government response to a significant terror attack directed at one of our embassies. Reagan's purpose was to unite American resolve in support of freedom and liberty:
More than ever, we're committed to giving the people of Lebanon the chance they deserve to lead normal lives, free from violence and free from the presence of all unwanted foreign forces on their soil. And we remain committed to the Lebanese Government's recovery of full sovereignty throughout all its territory.
<...>
The scenes of senseless tragedy in Beirut this week will remain etched in our memories forever. But along with the tragedy, there were inspiring moments of heroism. We will not forget the pictures of Ambassador Dillon and his staff, Lebanese as well as Americans, many of them swathed in bandages, bravely searching the devastated embassy for their colleagues and for other innocent victims.
We will not forget the image of young marines gently draping our nation's flag over the broken body of one of their fallen comrades. We will not forget their courage and compassion, and we will not forget their willingness to sacrifice even their lives for the service of their country and the cause of peace.
Yes, we Americans can be proud of these fine men and women. And we can be even prouder that our country has been playing such a unique and indispensable role in the Middle East, a role no other single nation could play. When the countries of the region want help in bringing peace, we're the ones they've turned to. That's because they trust us, because they know that America is both strong and just, both decent and dedicated. Even in the shadow of this terrible tragedy in Beirut, that is something to remember and draw heart from. It is also something to be true to.
I know I speak for all Americans when I reaffirm our unshakeable commitment to our country's most precious heritage—serving the cause of peace and freedom in the world. What better monument than that could we build for those who gave their all that others might live in peace.
President Reagan's visit was meant to inspire a nation.
President Obama's visit was meant to salvage his reputation.
Big difference.
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Great post. That Liberal article where they bash Bush and the military was awful. As soon as some Lib used the words "Baby Killer", I was done.
There is really no question about how Libs see us. Any apparent respect they show for the military is sarcasm.
Posted by: brando at October 30, 2009 01:22 PM (IPGju)
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Gee Whiz, jerk. I guess that made Ronald Reagan one of those who committed on of those, how did you put it, "...vile act still practiced by some crude thugs...". I guess Ronnie had the stones to take responsibility for the horrible sadness that resulted from his orders. The Shrub had no stones, has none now, and never will have any. Nor will his vile father who could never face the consequences of his decisions. Gee. Like father, like son.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fRmm3JSBP-c/SusoVm8l8DI/AAAAAAAAAN0/s_RTUjroCLI/s1600-h/Ronnie+Facing+his+Responsibility+for+Death.jpg
Paste this address in your browser if you have the stones.
Posted by: The Scarlet Pimpernel at October 30, 2009 01:55 PM (XKKcX)
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As Matt Yglesias once put it: 'When I die, please feel free to use me as much as possible to promote the causes I support and believe in'
What would be completely unethical and particularly scummy would be to use someone's death to promote some issue or cause which they did not support or believe in.
Like when the Republicons used 9/11 victims to push for a war in Iraq.
And going to a military funeral- sounds to me like that is the RESPONSIBILITY of those in the chain of command. Such as the Commander in chief. Of course, Bush didnt go to any of the funerals. Clearly he did not believe that their safety and deaths were his responsibility.
Posted by: Aaron at October 30, 2009 02:14 PM (QOsAh)
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The media hyped this in our neck of the woods as something that an American President hasn't done in 18 (?) years. As if inviting the press to catalogue and then praise the Idiot in Chief for for a photo op is an achievment for "The One" (oh wait, that is what passes for achievement with this wanna be).
Posted by: Penny at October 30, 2009 02:24 PM (5sGLG)
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President Obama's visit was meant to salvage his reputation.
AHAHAHAHHHAH! Yes! Obama's reputation is ruined! No one likes him because he persecuted two wars with criminal incompetence and that's why his approval rating with every polling firm is like between 20-30%.
Oh wait, that's not Obama, that's the last guy.
Your Dear Leader got how many troops killed in the Iraqi WMD snipe hunt? Yeah, Obama's the one that the military doesn't like, I'm sure.
Posted by: salvage at October 30, 2009 02:34 PM (DEOQe)
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salvage, if you
really want to know what the military thinks,
all you have to do is read.
This one, from the mother of one of those soldiers who gave their lives when Bush was in office would shame you...
if you had any shame:
I admire Pres Bush for understanding that some moments are so incredibly personal and private. I can state first hand that my son's flag draped casket coming of the plane was THE MOST emotional moment of my life. It was far harder than the funeral. In that moment the reality that there was no mistake and your child is truly dead hits you. You welcome them home and say goodbye in a moment. At his funeral although we were surrounded by 100s of people they allowed us our time to say final good bye to our son. His Military brothers and sisters honored him then also. Having someone like the President at either of these two event would have made it a circus. Pres. Bush understood that...and gave the family the privacy they need in that moment. He comforted them later privately when they were ready to meet with him.
Obama on the other hand obviously doesn't get that.... I question why he went to Dover. I question why the press was even notified. If this was truly to honor the fallen and comfort the family he could have made the middle of the night journey without fanfare. I hope he looked into the eyes of these families. I hope he listened to who these men were and how they lived their lives. I hope he sees those who serve as real people now...but I doubt it.
Go back to attacking the military, salvage. Feigning support is not something your kind does well.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 30, 2009 02:48 PM (gAi9Z)
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RayGun did it, it must be okay.
Posted by: GaynProud at October 30, 2009 03:21 PM (CWZnF)
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You can make all of the excuses you want, but the article nailed Bush as the sociopath and coward he is.
All of you "troop supporters" are engaged in the usual preferred pastime of wingnuts: Transferrence and projection.
You don't support them, deep down you hold them in utter contempt. And you are completely ignorant of this fact.
You seek to salve your putrid, rotted souls with fake "patriotism" and feel-good sloganeering in your idolatry of militarism and it's cannon-fodder. You worship the murderers and abhor the murdered.
Suck it, GOP. America (and it's armed forces) finally see through your lies, crimes and propaganda. Hope you enjoy electoral oblivion. It's so much less than you actually deserve for your evil deeds.
Posted by: Thom Jefferson at October 30, 2009 03:21 PM (+JUcs)
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Ya know what's sickening is listening to chickenhawks like Bob here, those who never bothered to serve in the military, try and speak to military and political issues. It's the cowards like Bob and the majority of the GOP, a club of men and women who stamp their feet about the troops but offer up no cogent argument why these brave young men and women are being sent overseas to die, be mutilated and to kill and mutilate others.
For you punks, this is all just a video game played out in real life where you get to put on your tri-corn hat and proclaim to the world how patriotic you are, without actually doing anything.
Obama is the Commander in Chief you sniveling fuckwit. As every good commander does, he's honoring those who have fallen in service to their country and at the orders of those is charge. As for the person who can't understand why Obama went, why the fuck don't you ask him and the families of the returning dead instead of making shit up, oh that's right, making shit up is what the war cheerleading pussies do, like Bob, the head cheerleader, where every death caused by an American soldier is the death of someone who deserved to die.
I'll give you credit for supporting the troops Bob when you can show me your DD 214, otherwise, you've just dipped even deeper into the cesspool that is the fatuous right wing vat of pig-ignorance and blind obedience to what war criminals Bush and Cheney ordered.
You'll get some respect when you can show some sympathy for the dead innocents our two never-ending wars have caused, when you show as much concern for the parents of a dead soldier, a soldier who was ordered to die by two draft-dodging assholes, as you do for the parents of a dead Iraqi child.
The idea that you think you can cleave the military to your disgusting political and social worldview is the reason you'll always be mocked, ridiculed and marginalized, just like your political party.
Fucking cowards.
Posted by: HumboldtBlue at October 30, 2009 03:59 PM (TK39f)
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Wow, CY. You struck a nerve. Just look at all the lib trolls cockroach scurrying around. Cockroaches, all of you.
Posted by: Barney at October 30, 2009 05:55 PM (JLPne)
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Reagan did the exact same thing as Obama, you drooling, knuckle dragging morons.
Posted by: Dave at October 30, 2009 06:17 PM (p4ynI)
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Oh, and by the way, salvage, your "arguments" would be much more impressive if you would improve your grammar and spelling. "Persecute" means torture. "Prosecute" means carry out. I suggest that you buy a hardcover copy of Webster's Collegiate Dictinary and keep it on your desk. Your uninformed tirades would be much better expressed, although not one whit more convincing.
Marianne Matthews
Posted by: Marianne Matthews at October 30, 2009 07:19 PM (VbbNx)
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Every time one of these brave Americans dies, "Progressives" get a 'tingling' up or down their legs.
Posted by: Brooks at October 30, 2009 08:15 PM (HLKeK)
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Air Force One, the movie starring Harrison Ford, Obama serf, was on here tonight. The film portrays the President as a valiant figure who defies terrorist fiends and saves the day, biff, bam pow. But toughness is out today, and sensitivity is in. Hence the trip to Dover. I don't like Obama or his character, but I feel for his problem in Afghanistan, since I have friends and family who have fought and worked there. The place demands a fifty year commitment for "victory" but his own masters in the left elite rich won't even tolerate 5 months from him.
Too, he must feel personally that many will die if he commits force. Yet he showed his weak but dominant political side by going there with photographers, expecting to enhance his image as a caring CIC.This was probably a reasonable calculation given his servile following. But I think he should have arrived alone and, perhaps, had the affair reported, but without showing the posed salute, which itself makes him look like a well dressed Ken doll. Obama had no respect until recently, so he doesn't know how to show it properly. Maybe he never will.
Posted by: mytralman at October 30, 2009 11:37 PM (26p91)
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When I saw the picture of Obama, straight backed, feigning solemnity while saluting, it looked so put on, so not in character. Then when I clicked through and read where he was and why it made perfect sense, but seemed even more pathetic. He may really want to be the commander in chief in this kind of serious, solemn way, but he just isn't yet. Not when we know he golfs and fund raises and wings off for the Olympic bid, yet can't find time to meet with his general, is decisive as hell on an immediate stimulus package and taking over health care, picking czars and tax cheats, but has to spend months pondering whether to send help to the troops already in Afghanistan, the war he campaigned on. The bow in Saudi Arabia was totally believable, but the salute in Dover - no.
Posted by: Jayne at October 30, 2009 11:58 PM (dwIL0)
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When George W. Bush was photographed in a flight suit after his flight to the now famous aircraft carrier, liberals went absolutely berserk. They went berserk because Bush looked authentic. He was a fighter pilot and knows how to wear the gear, how to walk in it, and how to behave in it. It looked like second skin on him and made all liberal pretense at military credibility look like, well, pretense. We all remember Michael Dukakis and the tank, no?
Which brings us to this pathetic incident. There are some things one simply does not do, such as invite yourself to someone else's funeral, or having been invited, bring along some of your closest friends in the national press (!?). If Obama was truly wanting to honor our fallen soldiers, if he was truly wanting to gain insight to help him make decisions, could this not have been done without the press? No, not for Obama, for no matter the topic, no matter the occasion, no matter the gravity of the situation, it's all about him; everything is all about him.
Thus we have a photo of Obama saluting. George W. Bush knows how to wear a flight suit. He knows how to salute. He knows that one honors military dead and their families privately, and absolutely and always without the salivating jackals of the media (how, pray tell, could one possibly be more intrusive on the privacy and feelings of these people?), and he knows that one never, ever uses our fallen soldiers and their families for propaganda and personal aggrandizement. Obama is no more believable in the role of commander in chief than Dukakis was as an M-1 commander. He's just not authentic, and no amount of posing can make him other than what he is: A craven, small time Chicago machine politician and thug who, in the embodiment of the Peter Principle, has risen far, far beyond his terribly limited competence.
Posted by: Mike McDaniel at October 31, 2009 12:24 AM (DJR56)
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"George W. Bush knows how to wear a flight suit."
Yep...complete with a vial of cocaine in one pocket, a bottle of Old Grandad bourbon in another, a get-out-of-duty-free letter from daddy's golf buddy in another and a rolled-up tube sock in his drawers to fill out the testicle-free crotch.
An event known forever as Operation Dress-Up.
Sad that real patriots died in Vietnam while this drunken fratboy was skipping out on his numerous bar tabs and flunking his flight physicals due to being a coke addict.
Posted by: Thom Jefferson at October 31, 2009 05:40 AM (+JUcs)
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"Sad that real patriots died in Vietnam while this drunken fratboy was skipping out on his numerous bar tabs and flunking his flight physicals due to being a coke addict."
Actually, it's been proven over and over that he completed his duty. The fact is that it's sad that real patriots died in Vietnam while sopping female body parts in Washington plotted to throw millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians to the wolves.
Sad that real patriots are dying in Afghanistan while the sopping female body part in chief outgolfs Bush and shoots hoops with his campaign contributors.
Posted by: TGC at October 31, 2009 06:12 AM (4FaPc)
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o/t
http://rumcrook.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/wake-up-america-obama-is-a-radical/
the list of radical guests to the white house including terrorist ayers is unbeleivable.
you are known by the company you keep. this president is a disgrace
Posted by: rumcrook® at October 31, 2009 08:18 AM (60WiD)
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Wow. You've got the O-bots Fired Up!, Bob. Ready To Go!
Posted by: Pablo at October 31, 2009 08:29 AM (yTndK)
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... Context, of course, is paramount.
Holy shit, how many dicks did you have suck to come up with such a gay,
nuanced response like that, Frenchy?
Posted by: NB at October 31, 2009 09:39 AM (nKJGA)
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"Supporting the troops mean providing sufficient facilities to help them re-adjust to life in the civilian world."
Yeah, I adjusted just fine, thanks.
Hey Libs, you know how many combat veterans read this blog? Quite a few. And you're braging about "Stones" for clicking a link. Libs know nothing about stones. Clicking a link? Really? Think about that for a second.
I might not agree with Cons on some issues, but there is no way that Libs will win an argument about who has genuine respect for the military.
This Liberal commenter perfectly expressed the Left's hatred of Conservative's respect for servicemen.
"...feel-good sloganeering in your idolatry of militarism and it's cannon-fodder. You worship the murderers..."
Here's a hint. If you're making an argument about how much you respect servicemen, you might not want to call us "baby-killers", "cannon-fodder", and "murderers". Durp. Beleive it or not, it actually weakens your argument.
I invite any jv liberals to square away your bretheren. This thread would be a good place to start policing your own.
Or silently consent.
Posted by: brando at October 31, 2009 09:44 AM (LjEkE)
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To those who have served, as have I and, I suspect, many others who post here, there is a clear distinction between honoring our military, living and dead, and posing for a photo as a political prop. We mention Presidents Reagan and Bush because they so clearly fall into the former category, and Democrats such as Bill Clinton--whose disdain for the military was and is legendary--John Kerry, who is among the most dishonorable men to have ever worn the uniform, and Barack Obama, whose only concern is for himself, fall into the latter.
It is, of course, nearly worthless to try to present facts to liberals, because all that matters to them is the favored narrative of the moment. But do recall, please, that President Bush served, voluntarily, as a fighter pilot, and the record is clear: he did volunteer for Vietnam duty but was turned down as the air war was winding down, the aircraft he flew was not a type being used in Vietnam and he did not have sufficient flight hours for immediate assignment--by the time he was able to transition into another aircraft, there would have been no need for his services in Vietnam.
The problem with this remains the fact that there is no excuse for involving the media in what is likely the most intensely private and poignant moment any human being can bear. President Bush understood this. He spent untold hours meeting privately with family members, visiting troops in the hospitals and war zones, and did not take the media along for self aggrandizing photo ops. In fact, the media was unaware of much of his service in this manner. When he surprised troops with visits, their response was overwhelming and heartfelt because they knew he cared for and believed in them. Contrast this with President Obama, who always brings along the media to photograph him, and who, on one famous occasion, had his advance people screen troops to place only those who voted for him in view of the camera, and who actually handed out digital cameras to the troops so that the media would dutifully record those hand picked troops shooting snapshots of him.
Who, after all, would even think about inviting the media to photograph someone else's funeral or the arrival of the coffin of their loved one? Not only is that impulse incredibly inappropriate, rude and insensitive, it speaks of a malignant narcissism that is dangerous, dangerous for us all.
Posted by: Mike McDaniel at October 31, 2009 10:21 AM (DJR56)
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Mike, I served. I doubt you did. You're a bloviating idiot. If you did serve you were on KP or some shit. You're telling me a real soldier wouldn't be honored by the president saluting his coffin whether there was a camera there or not? You moron. It would be an HONOR. And a lot of vets don't adjust well. Why do you think so many of us end up fucking homeless. There are things to complain about with Obama, there sure are. This is NOT one of them, you mindless idiots.
Posted by: Dave at October 31, 2009 11:06 AM (p4ynI)
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We're forced to ask: if the 18th family had refused to have their son's casket photographed, would Obama have shown up at all?
What else would explain the red-eye timing of the trip?
Positively vampiric.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 31, 2009 12:04 PM (UK5R1)
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Wow, can't handle the truth from a real military vet so you delete my comment? How pathetic is that?
Posted by: Dave at October 31, 2009 01:59 PM (p4ynI)
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It's called we have conversations like rational adults, Dave, without resorting to childish profanities to make up for a lack the vocabulary. Read the comments policy, and conduct yourself with dignity and respect.
Otherwise, yeah... I'll dump your comments.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 31, 2009 02:19 PM (WjpSC)
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Who among us can forget Obama cancelling his visit to the Landstuhl Military Hospital during his European celebrity tour in 2008 when informed he could not drag along campaign staff and members of the media? I forget, did he play basketball instead?
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 31, 2009 02:55 PM (3O5/e)
Posted by: Dave at October 31, 2009 03:31 PM (p4ynI)
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Dave, you really don't have the composure to express yourself without swearing?
You must have learned that in your high speed unit. When you became a
real veteran, as you put it.
Posted by: brando at October 31, 2009 06:10 PM (LjEkE)
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How many times did Obama say "I" during his photo op? How many times did Reagan? The answer to those questions says everything.
Posted by: Brad at October 31, 2009 07:52 PM (eEdXg)
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Coward. Gotcha.
No, you clearly don't got it, Dave. I'm a fairly foul mouthed sort (and I blame the Irish.) But Bob does not appreciate profanity on his blog, and having an understanding and respect for that, I've never had a comment deleted here. Which is mostly because I've never made one I know he'll delete for violating his standards of decorum.
You'll notice, Dave, that your inane insult remains. Maybe you could try your argument again, in terms that are appropriate on this blog. You can order McDonald's without getting tossed out, can't you, Dave? Try making an argument that way.
With hope,
A
Real Veteran
Posted by: Pablo at October 31, 2009 10:12 PM (yTndK)
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Oh Cornfed Manatee, it's cute that you think that one mother is the end all and be all of military opinion of Bush but I guess you didn't notice Bush's approval rating was in the toilet amongst the soldiers and their families as well.
That is a fact, by the way, Bush is the most hated President in American history and you voted for him, twice! That's all anyone needs to know about you.
So what reputation is it that Obama is trying to "salvage"? You don't actually say. You do know that he didn't start the Iraq invasion right?
Posted by: salvage at November 01, 2009 09:07 AM (DEOQe)
34
salvage - You're just pretending to be srupid, right? You're not this way all the time are you?
Geez, 17 out of 18 isn't too bad is it?
Posted by: daleyrocks at November 01, 2009 09:52 AM (3O5/e)
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...I guess you didn't notice Bush's approval rating was in the toilet amongst the soldiers and their families as well.
Cite?
Posted by: Pablo at November 01, 2009 10:56 AM (yTndK)
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where ever O'dumbo appears, twelve guys in blue suits should show up and salute. You know, to show respect for him.
Posted by: jerome clam at November 01, 2009 02:41 PM (lB/5N)
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"So what reputation is it that Obama is trying to "salvage"?"
How about the image he's acquired playing golf, shooting hoops and other dithering activities while our soldiers die in Afghanistan? How many days has it been since Gen. McChrystal requested more troops?
Posted by: TGC at November 01, 2009 06:48 PM (4FaPc)
38
Personally, I think that the photos of the flag draped caskets are appropriate and respectful. Bear in mind that there was a ban in place for 18 years that shielded the American people from the true cost of our wars.
It's also worthy of noting that photos aren't taken if the family of the deceased doesn't want their loved one's coffin to be photographed. In the past, as I understand it, these photos weren't allowed even if the families DID want it.
Really, this isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. You're simply attempting to create a controversy, where none exists, for your own personal ideological agenda, in my opinion.
Furthermore, I consider it to be deplorable to make a political issue of what in reality was a respectful visit by our President to the place where the bodies of our fallen soldiers are returned to their families and to their country.
Shame on you.
Posted by: Dude at November 01, 2009 11:27 PM (byA+E)
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Thom-
I understand you are very angry. However, you are not succeeding in stating your opinions (which you have a right too) very well when you combine them with ad hominem attacks and vitriol. Instead, you create a caricature of yourself and others that hold your beliefs.
By using comments such as "You seek to salve your putrid, rotted souls with fake "patriotism" and feel-good sloganeering ...It's so much less than you actually deserve for your evil deeds."
you come across as a troll, one of the lowest inhabitants of the internet just above virus-coders and spammers.
Learn how to form a respectful opinion.
Posted by: Ed at November 02, 2009 01:24 PM (qzOby)
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The Class of the Liberal Elite
Über liberal Gore Vidal takes the disgusting practice of blaming the victim to the extreme, outrageously calling the 13-year-old rape victim that Roman Polanski drugged and brutalized, "
a hooker."
Quick, someone award him a Nobel Prize for Literature.
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Remeber that Imus used the same language and the MSM got rid of him. Will they do that to the Great Gore?
Posted by: David at October 30, 2009 11:15 AM (PpoBw)
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Either these people have absolutely no clue how bad they look when they do these things or the people they are trying to please are worse then they are. Of course, one famous business once said about the press something along the lines of, good, bad, whatever, just spell the name right.
This might simply be a way to stay in the press and have their names passed around. Perhaps it is our job to see that it doesn't get passed around, read, or watched? No t.v. here, I dropped the papers a bit before I dropped t.v., and I only read the bible, people like Chesterton, and well established classics up to a point. Gore who?
Posted by: Doom at October 30, 2009 11:43 AM (VB9Cw)
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That old man is truly disgusting. He's an arrogant old patrician who must feel profoundly cheated that this country never paid him his proper due; he's in a permanent state of lese majeste. There's a grave waiting for Gore Vidal and I think he should shuffle along into it as soon as possible.
Posted by: zhombre at October 30, 2009 04:16 PM (kLU+g)
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Is this self-description, irony or hypocrisy by Al Gore?
Apparently, in Al Gore's world, hookers cannot be crime victims. Fascinating. Assuming of course, that underage victim of Roman Polanski's drug fueled rape was a "hooker".
Posted by: Penfold at October 30, 2009 04:16 PM (lF2Kk)
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My bad, thought it read Al Gore, though is there any difference?
Posted by: Penfold at October 30, 2009 04:17 PM (lF2Kk)
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October 29, 2009
Paranormal Taxivity
via Hot Air.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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i'm still not going to donate to the various Rino national committees, if all they are going to do is support the same worthless scum they are trying to foist off on us now....
Posted by: redc1c4 at October 29, 2009 04:42 PM (d1FhN)
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The Taxpayer Option: 1,990 Pages
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
A bill can only get this bloated when Congress isn't conscientious enough, or diligent enough, to craft concise and thoughtful legislation that accomplishes a specific task with a clear purpose and logical mechanisms for implementation and enforcement.
This is a trainwreck, authored by the lazy and incompetent, and should be aborted instead of the children the bill would require taxpayers to kill.
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Private insurers cannot compete with a competitor that can regulate, tax, and have citizens obligated for an operating loss. The government option is a deceitful plan to ultimately employ a single payer system like those bankrupting other countries. What should anger, and alarm, people is that a political party would use a devious method to implement its will knowing the majority of people would reject them if they were open about it.
This health plan is sold as a means to reduce the expense of medical care. That's a sham, as they are adding one trillion dollars of expense to cover twenty million uninsured people and transferring that expense onto the tax system for us to pay. Will one trillion dollars be enough? Financial gimmicks lowering projected expenses are loaded in all the proposed Democrat proposals. What government plan ever came in on or under budget? This country is bankrupt now, and this new "entitlement" will send it into the abyss. To pay this debt burden government must print money and pay with cheapened dollars. What happens when people find they have been cheated by their own government by reducing the value of their dollars? Politicians are not stupid, so is this administration intentionally doing this? The winners will be the spendthrifts and those that would rather not work hard and have nothing to lose. The losers will be those conscientious tax paying citizens that labored and saved. Forcibly taking from some to give to others is a sign of a decadent society.
Posted by: Rick at October 29, 2009 02:42 PM (FWmwx)
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Thank you Rick. I couldn't have said it any better!
Posted by: Bob at October 29, 2009 03:22 PM (hJyf6)
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Rush read some of the bills provisions and I could not understand any of it. The language is so convoluted that I am sure the politicians have no idea what they are voting for, and likely could care less. Parts indicate that single individuals can make law!
It seems clear that the intent is to force everyone on the government dole. The cost is going to be out of this world.
Posted by: David at October 29, 2009 05:28 PM (HCm3x)
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I wouldn't be too concerned. Most of the provisions don't kick in until 2013. By then the inevitable backlash will have created Republican majorities who can gut it like a Sea bass before it ever takes effect.
Posted by: Will Butler at October 29, 2009 07:44 PM (znAs1)
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Ghosts of Campaigns Past
Earlier this week I read and
commented upon Special Forces Major Jim Gant's proposal for winning the Afghan war,
One Tribe At a Time (PDF). Gan't proposla was based upon his highly successful engagement as the leader of a Special Forces A-team that won the confidence of and became regarded as part of a Pushtun tribe.
Gant's approach suggests using smaller teams of highly-trained and highly-supported soldiers and have them assimilate into Afghanistan's Pashtun tribes to combat the Taliban with minimal but immediate assistance, both monetary and military, as needed.
David Adams and Ann Marlowe reach a similar conclusion in the Wall Street Journal today, noting that more troops applied improperly actually seems to make attempts at providing security counterproductive:
We saw how this could work in the Tani district of Khost starting in 2007. By assisting an ANA company—with a platoon of American paratroopers, a civil affairs team from the U.S.-led Provincial Reconstruction Team, the local Afghan National Police, and a determined Afghan subgovernor named Badi Zaman Sabari—we secured the district despite its long border with Pakistan.
Raids by the paratroopers under the leadership of Lt. Col. Scott Custer were extremely rare because the team had such good relations with the tribes that they would generally turn over any suspect. These good tribal relations were strengthened further by meeting the communities' demands for a new paved road, five schools, and a spring water system that supplies 12,000 villagers.
Yet security has deteriorated in Khost, despite increases of U.S. troops in mid-2008. American strategy began to focus more on chasing the insurgents in the mountains instead of securing the towns and villages where most Khostis live.
The insurgents didn't stick around to get shot when they saw the American helicopters coming. But the villagers noticed when the roads weren't built on time and the commanders never visited.
It doesn't take much more more than a scan of the current headlines to know that the application of the current strategy is not working. We also have multiple sources with boots-on-the-ground experience suggesting what certainly sounds like the same approach to a much more intimate, smaller-scale engagement, with real-world results supporting their positions.
No doubt General McCrystal has his reasons for wanting 40,000 troops, just as Joe Biden has his own (quite daft) reasons for wanting to fight a drone war.
But generals and politicians have historically had problems correctly fighting the war in front of them, haunted by ghosts of campaigns past.
Let's hope our current commanders are capable of avoiding that trap.
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from a very old vet.screw all the strategy and tactics.kill all the poppies,and keep on killing them till nothing grows ,the offer food .no guns weapons or money.
Posted by: billie wagner at October 29, 2009 03:51 PM (BT/6v)
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SOCOM SCAR Update
The FN SCAR (Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle) that has been deployed in small numbers with U.S. Special Forces will finish an initial deployment in December.
Jane's is
reporting that a much larger follow-on order of 15,000 5.56 SCAR-L(ight) and 5,000 7.62 SCAR-H(eavy) modular rifles is expected to follow in 2010.
Jason Spradling of Remington addressed rumors about the 6.5 chambering listed for the much-anticipated Remington ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle).
The Firearms Blog had assumed that the 6.5 cartridge would be the 6.5 Grendel, but an industry insider informed him that Remington was not developing a 6.5 Grendel variant, and someone else said that Remington may be developing their own 6.5 cartridge.
Jason confirmed with me via email yesterday that Remington was not actively working on a 6.5 Grnedel variant... or a 6.5 cartridge of their own.
"We have mentioned the 6.5 in our communications on the ACR simply because that platform is capable of handling the Grendel or something like it. At this point, there are no plans to chamber the ACR for the Grendel. However, that may change if we receive enough input from the marketplace to make it seem necessary."
The SCAR-L and ACR are destined for a collision course in the defense market as direct competitors as a replacement for the M-4 carbine. Both rifles are also going to be developed with semi-automatic variants for the civilian market. The SCAR-L and SCAR-H are currently priced north of $2,500 (sometimes far more).
Pricing for the ACR has not yet been released.
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I've seen the SCAR up close... BAAAAAADA$$ is the only way to describe it... The SF kids love it. The only issue I have with it is the name... Say it quickly and you sound like you are obscenely describing a bad wound...
"Whats that?"
"Oh that? Thats my F'n scar..."
Posted by: Big Country at October 29, 2009 11:00 AM (H/RUP)
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The Magpul Masada (predecessor to the ACR) was projected to cost around $1400 for a 16" carbine with magazines, according to the original Magpul press releases. (http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/masada_technote.pdf)
Posted by: Eric at October 29, 2009 11:21 AM (p7VhC)
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Interesting. Any word on an 6.8mm version of SCAR for SOCOM? Or is the whole 6.8 concept moribund?
Posted by: Brad at October 31, 2009 08:09 PM (eEdXg)
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Brad: There was some interest in a 6.8 SPC SCAR at some point (by the Marines, IIRC, and not SOCOM) and some prototypes were developed for testing. Haven't heard any more about it.
Posted by: Murdoc at November 01, 2009 12:39 PM (+i0Jm)
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October 27, 2009
The Generals Trap
Memeorandum is abuzz over
this article in the Washington
Post. It seems that a former Marine Captain with combat experience in Iraq who had joined the State Department in the Zabul province of Afghanistan resigned in September becuase of waht he viewed as a pointless war.
The official, Matthew Hoh, wrote in his letter of resignation:
"I have lost understanding of and confidence in the strategic purposes of the United States' presence in Afghanistan,"' he wrote Sept. 10 in a four-page letter to the department's head of personnel. "I have doubts and reservations about our current strategy and planned future strategy, but my resignation is based not upon how we are pursuing this war, but why and to what end."
Mr. Hoh is far from being the only American with questions about how we are executing strategy in Afghanistan, and for that matter, in Pakistan. As Michael Yon has been warning for over a year, things in Afghanistan are not going as well as they have in Iraq. We're not winning. We may be losing. All that seems certain is that whatever we are doing now isn't working.
There are more opinions that I can cite on what people want us to do in Afghanistan.
There are know-nothing defeatists on the left that desire an American defeat as a mark against President Bush's legacy. Such a view is perverse, but not unexpected from those that became enslaved to a singular hatred over eight years that have turned them into little more than Gollum, trapped in what one fevered progressive blogger described as "one long, sustained scream."
Opposing them are those with more rational reasons for advocating for policies of withdrawal or various strategies that refocus on continuing the effort.
U.S. General Stanley McCrystal wants to commit a much larger American force of 40,000 to attack the Taliban in what some are referring to as the Afghan Surge, likening it to the military operation in Iraq that did much to bring the country to a relative level of stability and enabled U.S. forces to mostly withdraw to supporting roles.
Others such as Vice President Joe Biden, want to reduce the U.S. footprint within Afghanistan and snipe at Taliban and al Qaeda terrorists with Hellfire missiles fired from the ever-present Predator UAVs circling overhead in some area.
And of course, all of our engagement strategies hinge on collaborating with an Afghan government that means almost nothing outside of Kabul.
But there is no guarantee that either increasing our conventional ground forces nor reeling them back in and remotely targeted suspect foes will affect any sort of meaningful change in the remote regions of Afghanistan. The tribes have defeated and outlasted armies that have fought with much greater ferocity and less regard for human life for longer periods of time. The enemy knows that they do not have to defeat us in battle. They can simply afford to watch us burn ourselves out.
That is not to say that the war is unwinnable. We just need to take a fresh look at how the human terrain is different in Afghanistan, and rededicate ourselves to fighting the current war, and not fall into the ever-present generals trap of fighting the last war.
For all intents and purposes, the American war in Iraq is over, and we won. We deposed a dictator, foundered in a bloody insurgency and near civil war over a number of years, before alighting on a strategy that fit the war. Once those tactics were discovered and put into widespread use, the bulk of the insurgency collapsed or was coerced into giving up, leading us to a current state where American forces spend their time on base or in training roles, and the Iraqi government has become a more or less functional state. Terrorist attacks like the double vehicle bombings of several days ago still spread terror and mayhem, but no overtly longer threaten the stability of the state. There is now hope from politicians and generals of using the lessons learned in Iraq to fight the Afghan war.
But the commanders and politicians have learned the wrong lessons.
They focus on the strategy and tactics of military conflict and diplomacy between governments because that is how they are comfortable thinking. They seek to apply what they think they learned in Iraq, while forgetting how they learned.
They learned from "boots on the ground" who found out what worked by living with the population and learning that mastering the human terrain is far more important than building firebases.
One man who seems to understand the human terrain in Afghanistan better than most is U.S. Army Special Forces operator Major Jim Gant, who was deeply and personally embedded with his team in Mangwel, Konar Province.
Based upon his experiences in Afghanistan, Major Gant wrote about the concept of winning the war through tribal engagement in One Tribe at a Time (PDF).
Regular readers of Confederate Yankee know that I commented frequently about the conflict in Iraq during it's most trying times, but that I've been almost silent on Afghanistan. The reason is simple: I had few contacts there, and little understanding of the nature of the people or the conflict. I wasn't going to opine on a war that I simply don't understand in the slightest.
Thanks to One Tribe at a Time I have a far greater understanding of at least Major Gant's view of how to conduct the war. While I'm open to hear other opinions, his experience and the course he advocates sounds like an approach at least worth studying.
I have a suspicion that if we continue to listen to just the politicians and generals, we may once again stagger on with the wrong strategy, creating a war that we cannot win because our greatest adversary is ourselves.
(h/t Instapundit)
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Iraq abd Afghanistan are as opposite as you can possibly get. Iraq has had a centralized national government off and on since the days of Babylon.
Afghanistan on the other hand has had a loose confederation of tribes from the beginning of recorded history. Every invader from Alexander,
Genghis Khan, Tammerlane, the British, and most recently the Russians, have easily conquered the country and taken it's capitol. They then spend years stamping out little local brushfires until they become frustrated and exhausted with their lack of progress and leave.
If the U.S. wants to establish a centralized democratic society in this country, all the above factors must be taken into account.
Militarily defeating the forces on the ground will not, in the long run work.
I recall a similar situation as recently as WW II in Yugoslavia where it took the Germans 3 divisions of troops to conquer the country and 18 divisions to occupy it.
Utilizing the concept of working with the tribes and assisting in creating a confederation of tribes is probably the only solution which would eliminate the democratic one man one vote concept.
After a generation or two of this type of governing body it may be possible for the tribes and people of Afghanistan to move toward a more democratic society.
The U.S. dictating the requirement for these people to have an immediate democracy is foolish and doomed to fail. We must remember these people have never had any other form of government than a King or Chieftan for all of recorded history. Give them time.
Paul in Texas
Posted by: Paul at October 27, 2009 08:17 PM (rCmYM)
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Great post but very unrealistic. Afghanistan is the "graveyard of empires" and we have no business being there fighting an enemy who did nothing to us. The Taliban never attacked us, the Al Qaeda did and they've been gone for the last 7 and 1/2 years. We're now being seen as an empire propping up a corrupt government that steals elections and the President's brother is leader of one of Afghanistan's largest drug cartels producing poppies at pre-9/11 levels.
If you go back to some of Bin Laden's predictions of what we would do then and where we would be now, it would send chills down your spine.
Posted by: Lipiwitz at October 28, 2009 03:04 AM (bhNGz)
3
And now we have this revelation out today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28intel.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw
We need to pull the plug on this disaster before it's too late. Concentrate all our intelligence and special operations to the Pakistan border and continue relying on the predators that with all due respect to our troops, have been by far more effective.
Posted by: Lipiwitz at October 28, 2009 03:26 AM (bhNGz)
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October 26, 2009
Senate On Verge of Health Care Plan That Will Dramatically Increase Number of Unemployed Low-Income Workers
Democrats in the Senate should call this precisely what it is—the
Screw The Poor Compromise:
Details of the legislation could change, but its broad outlines are becoming clear. Employers with more than 50 workers wouldn't be required to provide health insurance, but they would face fines of up to $750 per employee if even part of their work force received a government subsidy to buy health insurance, this person said. A bill passed by the Senate Finance Committee had a lower fine of up to $400 per employee.
The bill to be brought to the Senate floor would create a new public health-insurance plan, but would give states the choice of opting out of participating in it, a proposal that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada backed last week.
Translated into English, what this means is that employers will have to pay far more in payroll taxes, meaning they will have far less money to actually hire workers. Like always, it will be those employees on the lower end of the scale—typically minorities—that will be the most greatly affected by the change, and when I say "affected" I mean like Jody Foster was affected in The Accused.
Phillip Klein at The American Spectator notes the disaster in the making:
The major problem with this disastrous proposal should be obvious to anybody with an inkling of understanding of economics. If you make it more costly for businesses to higher lower-income workers, they won't hire as many. Simply put, if the federal government set out to create a program designed to increase the unemployment rate among the working poor, it would be hard to come up with anything better than this.
There is a reason Reagan warned that the scariest words in our language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help," and the health care proposals being offered by Democrats are a perfect example of the unintended consequences of massive, complicated bills that Congress votes upon without even making an attempt to understand them.
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The libtards have had enough with this "bipartisan" BS. They're going to go it alone - with perhaps a Snowe or two - and ram their multi-trillion dollar healthscare bill down our throats. It will happen quickly; probably using the nuclear option in the Senate, and will be hailed as the greatest advancement in the history of mankind by the greatest president in America's history.
It's a done deal, boys and girls....and it's just the beginning. There are LOTS of other very costly goodies waiting in the wings. We ain't seen nothin yet.
Posted by: Dell at October 26, 2009 03:41 PM (zXgmt)
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I disagree with you on one point in a major way. I think they know precisely what this portion of the bill will do, and most of the rest of it. We might not know, conservative members might not know, but Democrats know. It behooves them to have a lot of unemployed poor people. It is their trademark. Being able to legislate them is their most enjoyable moments.
My guess is that they have a legion of 'faithful' with enough legal knowledge to put these bills together in weeks or even days to their ends. They have very precise criteria under which they work and they offer a very exact idea of what these laws, codes, and such will do, probably in a general outline sheet, through charts, or some other simple manner of reporting (congress critters don't do calculus).
Posted by: Doom at October 26, 2009 07:16 PM (UYtz1)
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look at it this way:
which is cheaper? taking a standard $400 or $750 hit on each of my employees that would qualify for the subsidy, because not all of them do, and continuing to carry health care, or simply eliminating health care, and its administration costs from my bottom line, and only getting hit for the proportion that get me fined.
unless i'm missing something, it looks like eliminating health coverage is better for me in the long run. no price changes, no forms to fill out, etc..... its a brilliant move on their part to help companies to improve their efficiency.
Posted by: redc1c4 at October 27, 2009 10:07 AM (d1FhN)
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redc1c4,
I see your point, but you do understand that this will take people out of good plans and put them into a really bad plan, don't you? From the employers stand, sure, if money is the bottom line, at least until they have a lot of untreated sick people working for them, or sidelined. But a conscientious employer would have to see this for what it is. And understand this is another assurance that compliance will be all but mandated. Perhaps I am merely too old to get all this, of course.
It is a funnel from private to public insurance. Now, that might not effect you immediately as owner or high enough on the chain to still get private insurance. That is, until that business model is no longer supportable and you will end up with what your employees get by attrition. Still, a dollar is a dollar I suppose.
Posted by: Doom at October 28, 2009 02:50 AM (+iEAo)
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This Catch 22 In Proposed Health Bills Not Covered by Press:
Millions of families cannot afford to pay both forced health insurance and their home mortgage or rent and will have to pay Opt-Out Penalties, money that could have used for medical expenses. Many Americans stuck in this Catch 22 position will not be considered poor for federal assistance to pay their health insurance premium. Middle class home buyers may have to pay-Opt Penalties to reduce their annual expenses in order to qualify for a home mortgage. The collateral economic damage forced health insurance costs and Opt-Out Penalties will cause has not been address by either Congress or the press.
Posted by: Ross Wolf at October 28, 2009 12:50 PM (qEaMo)
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Ross Wolf makes a very cogent point, which means that it's sure to be ignored and/or glossed over by the Obama Media.
Posted by: Tully at October 28, 2009 02:36 PM (tUyDE)
Posted by: dogtraining at October 28, 2009 09:23 PM (r+aef)
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Groups That Forced Banks to Accept Sub-Prime Borrowers Now Protesting Banks for Expecting Sub-Prime Borrowers to Repay Their Loans
You've
got to be sickened by the gall of the SEIU, AFL-CIO, and Americans For Financial Reform.
In league with bullying liberal politicians in the House and Senate—and of course, their child sex slavery supporting allies at ACORN—these thugs forced banks to provide mortgages to people with bad credit by extorting them with empty charges of "racism." They are now screaming bloody murder that the banks are engaged in profiteering and preying on these same people.
Why?
For actually giving them the loans they extorted, and then having the temerity to expect these loans to be repaid. God forbid that they are treated like adults and expected to meet the financial obligations they made the decision to take on.
You can't fix stupid, apparently, but you sure as Hell can get them bused to a protest.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:00 AM
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I have been following and investing in some of the big banks over the last year. Banks like BAC and WFC were virtually mandated by the government to purchase mortgage houses like Country Wide to prevent massive default. Before that these were the most stable of financial institutions. The Feds clearly made BAC purchase Merrill. Then they turn around and begin accusing the bankers of bad management and forcing bad loans of these "poor" individuals. Something is going on here that smells.
Posted by: David at October 26, 2009 05:47 PM (HCm3x)
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David, that odor that you smell is the dying and rotting carcases of your "freedoms", "liberties", "capitalism" and the body of your "persuit of happiness," along with that of "taxation without representation." They all are suffering from cardiac arrest and terminal cancer - called Obama!!
SO SAD!!!!! My guess is that the masses of the great unwashed liberal/democrat voting block will be whining and complaining in 10 years, while the Socialist elite leaders eating caviar and lobster, feeling their pain will be watching the lib voting block from their Ivory/Ebony towers and promissing them that if they elect them for another 10 years that they will all be taken care of forever...............
Posted by: slimedog at October 26, 2009 08:36 PM (7cHOD)
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Wow, visiting a right wing website is like visiting a lunatic asylum. Its one crazy after another.
So let me get this straight: you think that poor people have a lot of political power and forced banks to give out loans to subprime borrowers.
And some banks were "forced" to buy other banks. How? Why? Why didnt we hear any of these banks complaining at the time???
Here on planet earth, our politics are dominated by rich and powerful interests. And banks and financial institutions are among the richest and most powerful. And you think that ACORN, which hires poor people for $10./hr is some unstoppable juggernaut?
The right clearly lives in a fantasy world of their own creation.
Posted by: Aaron at October 30, 2009 02:25 PM (QOsAh)
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Conservatives Top Liberals, Moderates as Top Ideological Group
So sayeth Gallup:
Conservatives continue to outnumber moderates and liberals in the American populace in 2009, confirming a finding that Gallup first noted in June. Forty percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. This marks a shift from 2005 through 2008, when moderates were tied with conservatives as the most prevalent group.
Let's keep those percentages in mind the next time we see a heavily-slanted poll that significantly under-samples Republicans and over-samples Democrats.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:08 AM
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It's a shame that a lot of 'em stayed home on Nov. 4, 2008.
BTW, don't confuse "conservative" with "Republican".
Posted by: Diogenes Online at October 26, 2009 10:00 AM (2MrBP)
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Remember though, the staff at the NYT generally considers itself to be moderate.
Posted by: kevin at October 26, 2009 10:45 AM (HjDx5)
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It is a shame, Diogenes, but not a surprise, as there was no conservative candidate for President running on a major party ticket that time. You had the choice between an ultra-liberal Chicago corrupt Democrat, and a slightly liberal Republican who had shown over the years that he had great disdain for the conservative wing of his party.
In football, sometimes when your team is mediocre, you basically toss out everyone and start fresh - it's painful for a couple of years, but if the right people are put in place, you're usually back winning long before you would have otherwise.
Unfortunately for the Republicans, they didn't do that this time, so we're pretty much resigned to a much longer period of mediocrity.
Posted by: Skip at October 26, 2009 03:01 PM (G2eJS)
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October 24, 2009
Victicrat
Look closely, and you'll see James O'Keefe, the filmmaker who nailed ACORN for supporting child sex trafficking, wearing a pimp suit once again... and dancing.
Badly.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:18 PM
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Badly.
All the girlies say he's pretty fly for a white guy.
Posted by: Pablo at October 24, 2009 11:22 PM (yTndK)
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Whatchu talkin' bout?!?!? O'Keefe was gettin' DOWN!!!
These posers wouldn't last 30 seconds in Compton but the message was pretty catchy.
Posted by: Lipiwitz at October 25, 2009 05:41 PM (OX5qU)
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These posers wouldn't last 30 seconds in Compton but the message was pretty catchy.
Why's that, Lippy? Is there something about Compton you'd like to tell us?
Posted by: Pablo at October 25, 2009 06:38 PM (yTndK)
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Okeefe is a great dancer, what a unique kinda guy. Wonder why Letterman hasn't booked him and Hannah. Who were the posers?
Posted by: Jayne at October 25, 2009 11:31 PM (dwIL0)
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Not at all Pablo. You should visit there yourself. You'll love it!
Posted by: Lipiwitz at October 28, 2009 02:58 AM (bhNGz)
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