September 29, 2006
You Don't Say
Via
Breitbart:
Ayman Al-Zawahiri, the Al-Qaeda number two, in a video posted on the Internet reportedly called US President George W Bush a liar who had "failed in his war against Al-Qaeda."
The Qatar-based Arabic-language satellite station Al-Jazeera said that in the video, "Zawahiri called Bush a liar and said he had failed in his war against Al-Qaeda."
On Thursday, Islamist websites on the Internet had said there would be a new video message posted by Zawahiri entitled " Bush, the pope, Darfur and the Crusades."
The comments, made in a video filmed under generator power deep in a guano-covered cave, were deemed to be authentic.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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what about the jews ?
I think you meant "bush, the pope, darfur, the crusades and the jews-are-guilty-of-everything-possible-uncluding-the-girl-who-was-born-without-lower-body-half" and not "bush, the pope, darfur and the crusades".
I think that's what he means to say.
otherwise, it just doesn't make sense !!
Posted by: guy at September 29, 2006 07:05 PM (wPNIe)
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All they have to do is change the voice of Hanoi John with a voice over program, photo shop the head of Ayman Al-Zawahiri on Turbin Durbin's body, and you have a terrorists making a speach slamming the president. Save on postage.
Posted by: Scrapiron at September 29, 2006 09:30 PM (fEnUg)
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We've got these al-qaeda guys buried so deep, they can't surface for a wasteland photo-op. They might as well be dead, but I would prefer that their victim's kin share the reward.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 30, 2006 05:04 PM (vFS/o)
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It sounds like Wimp-Lo logic from the movie "Kung-Pow".
"I'm bleeding, making me the victor."
Posted by: brando at September 30, 2006 06:55 PM (K+VjK)
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Foley Resigns in Scandal
Disgusting:
Saying he was "deeply sorry," Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL) resigned from Congress today, hours after ABC News questioned him about sexually explicit internet messages with current and former congressional pages under the age of 18.
A spokesman for Foley, the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, said the congressman submitted his resignation in a letter late this afternoon to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.
Get that last bit? He was the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children.
I hope that someone in law enforcement in both Washington and Florida is smart enough to get a search warrant for his House and home personal computers.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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At least he did resign rather than try to brazen it out. Probably could have blamed it on a frameup by the VLWC and got away with it if he wanted to.
I wouldn't really be suprised if he winds up smoking a .38 fairly soon.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 29, 2006 05:57 PM (8uJYe)
Posted by: El Cid at September 30, 2006 10:47 AM (ka+uC)
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...conservative values?
Posted by: annonymous coward at October 01, 2006 12:12 AM (+Q7GB)
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I'm reminded of the case of democratic former congressman Mel Reynolds. Mr. Reynolds had a number of crimes that led to his removal from congress and into jail, including a five year prison term for having sex with a underage female campaign volunteer.
How did the democrats respond to this?
Democrat Mel Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree.
Former democrat presidental wannabe Jessie Jackson gave him a job on the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll.
The job the "Rev." Jackson gave the sexual predator? Youth counselor.
Don't forget that the "Rev." Jackson was paying his mistress hush and child support money (a 6 figure sum) out funds collected by his so-called "non-profit" organization.
Posted by: Mark at October 01, 2006 09:59 AM (uUD7+)
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Joe Liebs in Pajamas
Nope, not another lame Eric Muller/Wonkette/Gawker Photoshopping smear, but an
interview of Connecticut's Senator Joe Lieberman by Pajamas Media's own Roger Simon.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I'm no fan of Lieberman, at least on most domestic/social issues. But I have to admit, that was one of the most professional and lucid performances I've seen by a politician in an interview. But I guess that's easy when the interviewer loves you.
Posted by: K-Det at September 29, 2006 04:49 PM (aaP7C)
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There's a MF Hamster on the MF Plane!
Are they with us, or
with the terrorists?
Somebody's on the way
to the PetSmart
in Guantanamo Bay
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Call the Wonder Pets!
Wonder Pets, Wonder Pets
We're on our way
To fight Islamic Terror
And save the day
We're not too big
And we're not too strong
But when we work together
We get the job done!
Goooo Wonder Pets! Yay!
Posted by: sandspur at September 29, 2006 01:16 PM (+/kur)
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Blog on, friends. Here in Europe we are losing to islamic madmen, yet hoping that when push comes to shove, you come and save us from ourselves.
Posted by: Janek at September 29, 2006 03:22 PM (f5rc/)
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Ha! That detainee will be lucky if only his Koran winds up in the toilet and not him along with it.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at September 30, 2006 01:31 PM (Z/vpP)
4
I think that should be, "There's an MF Hamster on the MF Plane!"
Posted by: Don Wisenor at October 03, 2006 04:51 PM (xyDE0)
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An Impression UNC Law Could Do Without
I've never had much respect for UNC Law professor Eric L. Muller and now that he has attempted what I assert is visual libel--falsely attributing a photo of one person as being someone else--I have even less.
Muller has a long-standing and quite unhealthy fascination with conservative blogger and columnist Michelle Malkin, and this morning, Muller leveled a charge of hypocrisy against her in this post:
In today's column, Michelle Malkin asks, "Where Have All the Good Girls Gone?"
It's a verbal assault on some twenty-year-old TV personality in Great Britain who "once possessed an uncommon sense of modesty and decorum in the skin-baring age of Britney Spears," and liked to spend her time singing "Blessed Jesus" and clutching "a rosary blessed by the pope," but has now become "the new face of skankdom," a "half-naked" "pop tart" who sums up all that is evil in our new world of "sexpot dolls/characters" and "Bratz babies in thongs." A woman who has gone from "pure-hearted to pure crap," and who, among other horrible things, "drinks" and "parties."
With no further ado, I give you: Michelle Malkin, Spring Break, March 27, 1992. Could that be an all-you-can-drink wristband?
Here, incidentally, is the flickr page where the photo appears. Somebody forwarded it to me a couple of months ago. I chortled. Then I forgot about it -- until today, that is, when her vicious hatchet job on a "half-naked" twenty-year-old "skank" brought it to mind.
Mind you: there's nothing wrong with trips to the beach during college, or all-you-can-drink wristbands, or bikinis.
Just with hypocrisy.
The column stands or falls on its own merits, but Muller's accusation--a link to a trashy, "Girls Gone Wild" themed picture--is serious stuff. Muller says the photo is Malkin.
It isn't.
It is a horribly done Photoshop edit, featuring a shrunken headshot of Malkin poorly imposed in the wrong scale over someone else's body. It is such an obvious fakery one has to assume Muller knew it was faked, but pressed on with what in my mind constitutes something akin to visual libel, presenting a obvious forgery as legitimate.
Gawker Media, which owns Wonkette, is familiar with blogs and so much know just how easy it is to badly fake a Photoshop, and so it was a surprise when, they, too joined Muller in presenting the fake photo as fact.
Malkin is rightfully outraged at the attack, and she should be.
Eric Muller's unhinged obsession has gone far over the line, and I hope that he is called to account for his actions. Malkin does not deserve this, nor does North Carolina's flagship university.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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The funny thing is, even if it were a genuine photo, it's no big deal. It's just a young woman in a bikini - nothing more, nothing less. There's really nothing immoral or racy about it.
Unless you have a thing for burkas.
Posted by: MikeM at September 29, 2006 11:14 AM (56lYi)
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I sent an email to the dean of UNC warning him that excessive obsesseion often (almost always) leads to crime and Muller is over the line with Michele.
Everyone should warn UNC of the danger they face themselves by continued support of this guy.
Posted by: Scrapiron at September 29, 2006 11:46 AM (fEnUg)
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He needs to be fired and living under a bridge in a cardboard box.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 29, 2006 05:59 PM (8uJYe)
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I'm sure the "dean of UNC" appreciates your input. On what specific grounds, though, would you recommend the "dean of UNC" dismiss Muller? I'd be fascinated to know.
Posted by: d at September 29, 2006 06:39 PM (4K53w)
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Dereliction of duty? According to this
UNC-Chapel Hill web site, their definition of Academic Freedom (the first entry in the Table of Contents, so it must be important, right?) is:
Academic freedom is the right of a faculty member to be responsibly engaged in efforts to discover, speak and teach the truth.
It seems to me that Eric Muller was neither 'responsibly engaged' nor 'speaking the truth'.
Perhaps Libel would be the better reason for dismissal.
Prophet Joe
.
Posted by: Prophet Joe at October 02, 2006 09:38 AM (CwVm0)
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Since Malkin is in every sense a public figure, a libel case would be a nonstarter. In any event, the fact that Muller was (quite evidently) wrong about this photo hardly rises to the level of "dereliction of duty," unless you assume that academics hold each other to standards of papal infallibility and never make honest (or even stupid, partisan) mistakes.
Without changing the subject too much, I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that while you're willing to see UNC roast Eric Muller over open coals, you're completely comfortable with the fact that your president and vice-president (and their innumerable hirelings) have spent the past five years speaking volumes of untruth, deliberate or otherwise. What should be done with them and their "derelictions?"
Posted by: d at October 02, 2006 05:40 PM (4K53w)
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Ah, d, thanks for making it easy then. Because I agreed with your point that dismissal must flow from specific, provable charges, I thought I was going to be entering a challenging and interesting conversation about what responsibilities academics have versus what has become normative. But you couldn't keep the stupid "Bush lied" trope from leaking out and it's clear you're not able to have such discussions.
There are many accusations of lying, but nailing them down has been rather elusive for the Bush opponents. I find that the accusations often boil down to "He says things (the GWOT, the economy, the environment) are going well but smart people know they're not so he's lying."
Try again on another thread, and remember you are among people who will ask you to make a specific and coherent case - just as you did in asking about the dismissal.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at October 04, 2006 07:28 PM (1w197)
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Losing National Security Voters
The always-excellent Lorie Byrd has a
column up at
Townhall.com hammering Democrats on their dismal national security record. The criticism of what President Bush referred to
last night as the "party of cut and run" is well-warranted based, upon a long record of many leading Democrats ignoring, miscasting, and quite possibly "misunderestimating" the very nature and the extent of the threat of Islamic extremism. Not only are the liberal's misconceptions about the jihadist threat dangerous to Westerners, it is also dangerous to Islam itself, ignoring that by refusing to confront Islamic terrorism head on, they may be allowing terrorists to stigmatize over one billion of their co-religionists who are non-violent.
Lorie's column liberally—uh, conservatively—quotes from a post I wrote earlier in the week, Legacy of Lies.
Lorie, who also blogs at Wizbang!, and fellow Townhall.com-er Mary Katherine will be co-panelists with me and many other talented bloggers at the Carolina FreedomNet 2006 blog conference in Greensboro, NC next Saturday.
We hope to see you there.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I still have a few more sites to visit but I will advise you to consider that the Reagan republicans created Bin Laden supporting Freedom Fighters in Afghanistan with supplies, weapons and money. When will you people learn the evil begets evil. You republicans created the state of the world in which we live. It is all a lie. You created Bin Laden who was trained by the CIA. His family has close contacts with Bush. He again was rallied by Bush et al to fly planes into the WTC. It was part of a giant conspiracy which was a win win for neocons. Larry Silverstein made $7 billion, our civil liberties are torn to pieces. I am sick of you self-righteous blohards.
Sorry, that you are such a misinformed fool
Posted by: Linda Dobrin at October 01, 2006 02:24 PM (o/xtD)
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September 28, 2006
Off Yonder Rocker
I used to enjoy reading Dean Esmay's blog from time to time, and I can't remember when or why I stopped dropping by. Maybe it was becuase of rants like
this.
Quite simply, the attack Esmay levels against Michelle Malkin, Hot Air, and Little Green Footballs is not based in any reality I'm familiar with. All three of these blogs do frequently comment on Islamic terrorism, but they also highlight reform-minded moderate Muslims as well. To state, as Dean has, that these blogs are anti-Muslim is quite simply a falsehood.
I don't know if Esmay is pruposefully lying for some reason, or if he has simply gotten so wrapped up in his interpretation of what he thinks people say that he can't tell what they actually say. In any event, his factless rant and his outbursts of of overwrought emotional violence against his commentors is quite sad. It's rare to see a blogger so publicly implode.
All three blog's Esmay attacked have posted rebuttals.
Michelle Malkin
Hot Air
Little Green Footballs
I hope Dean enjoys the burst of traffic. Odds are that once the dust settles, he will have lost both respect and readers.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Just showing the liberal roots he admits to having.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 28, 2006 05:51 PM (ZVOjz)
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What school teaches people to read only the lines they agree with? I thought enrollment was restricted to Media and Political types who are too stupid to work a real job.
Posted by: Scrapiron at September 28, 2006 07:45 PM (vFS/o)
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Like CY, I once read Dean's blog regularly. Often he seemed about to slip off a cliff into some sort of alternate reality, but I chalked it up to eccentricity - a trait which I admire within limits. Then last year(IIRC), he lept wholeheartedly off that same cliff pushing some goofball theory that HIV was not the cause of AIDS.
I'm not sure if this latest excursion from reality is blatant traffic-whoring or voices-in-his-head, but for sure his credibility has long since left the building...
Posted by: Diogenes at September 28, 2006 08:51 PM (5LoG6)
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Maybe he'll take to pitching Truther stuff? That'll draw the moonbats like flies to honey ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 29, 2006 12:10 AM (8uJYe)
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To borrow a right-wing rhetorical tactic, what world are you guys living in?
I visit Malkin's blog nearly every day, and she is one of the most virulently anti-muslim writers on the Internet. I've lost count of the number of times she has posted articles about someone doing something bad and ending up with something on the order of, "Oh, and guess what? THEY WERE MUSLIM! Big surprise from 'The Religion of Peace'." Everyone she disagrees with on Muslim-related issues is called the "Dhimmi" this or the "Dhimmi" that.
In the past, say, five months, I'd be willing to bet that she has made dozens of posts that were clearly anti-Muslim: aimed at disproving something some Muslim said or at underscoring her idea that Islam is an inherently violent religion.
I'm not reading just the lines I want to read; I'm looking at the whole thing and saying that the woman is clearly anti-Muslim. I just wish she had the balls to stand behind her rhetoric.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at September 29, 2006 07:59 AM (GefTZ)
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Doc,
If you would be so kind, please link the
specific "Anti-Muslim" posts that Malkin has made to support your charge. Esmay was challeged to do so, and he failed to come up with anything.
In my experiences reading her site, she has always seems to use the word "Muslim" in a larger defining context. Just to see for myself, I grabbed her
archives for August and looked through the posts. If this is a representative month, it disproves your contention.
Malking goes out of her way to explain that the San Francisco shooting rampage by Omeed Aziz Popal
was not the work of a jihadi, but was carried out by a mentally-ill person who
happened to be Muslim. Quite an odd opportunity to pass up if she is a blind Muslim hater as you allege.
Other times she does mention Islam mockingly as the "religion of peace"
in a context, such as
this post where she cites an article about the historical fact of Muslims forcing people of other religions to convert at sword-point. If you read the linked post, you'll see that the criticism is well-warranted in that context.
Malkin also provides coverage of
moderate Muslims and ex-Muslims that want to live in peace.
Again, provide a
contextual link showing your charges to be true if you are going to make them.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 29, 2006 08:27 AM (g5Nba)
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First I would like to comment on the concept of spreading Democracy through the world as the article discussed. I really don't feel that this is a reason to make war or approach a nation with hostile intent. In fact, when our local and national politicians advocate voting for their cause to soak the rich I wonder if Decmocracy is really that good of a system (a concern the Greeks had as well).
But as to the war against Muslims in general. As I recall the best analogy on a Christian level would be the Irish terrorist. But here there goal was negotiable and well known and defined in strict limits. Even so, Christians were pretty much universal in their condemnation of random attacks and were supportive of law enforcement, even if they sympathized with the Irish.
On the other hand, it has been estimated that 10% of the billion plus Muslims are associate with terrorist efforts. About 70% of the remaining are sympathetic to the cause. Little condemnation comes from the Muslim community and the terrorist could be stopped tomorrow if the Muslim communities would come on board. Their cause is also wrapped in the religion and not limited as the Irish. Thus we are at war with Islam despite a small proportion may be in line with us now.
In WWII they recognized the problems that Japanese, German, and Italian individuals might have in loyalty to the cause and limited the freedoms of these groups to reduce problems. It worked. We can do that now and get quick resolution or 5-10 years from now with the consequent protracted pain.
Bush started on the right road in Iraq. He has failed as he has opted for the political theater. This is pretty much what we did with Vietnam. We have tried 50 years of appeasement in the area and have failed. It is time to get mean.
Posted by: David Caskey at September 29, 2006 10:47 AM (6wTpy)
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CY:
How about
this, where Malkin puts ironic quotes around "insulting Islam," as if Islam cannot be insulted, and she talks about the "global jihadi mob." Or maybe
this, in which she refers to the "dhimmi MSM" ("dhimmi", of course, being the twenty-first century equivalent for Malkin of the mid-twentieth century "com symp"). Or
this, where she decries "kowtowing to Islamic bullies", or even
this, where she makes fun of Islamic anger at the Pope's recent remarks by discounting it as "jihadists' Pope Rage."
And this is in just THE PAST THREE DAYS.
Or how about her whole "Buy Danish" cacaraca?
And it's no fair excluding times when Malkin "just happens to mention" that a culprit is Muslim. The only reason she's mentioning it is because the person is Muslim, and she can't abide that.
Doc
Posted by: Doc Washboard at September 29, 2006 03:16 PM (/Wery)
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Doc, your really stretching and aren't close to getting anywhere.
Roboert Redicker is in hiding in fear for his life for what the jihadists said was "insulting Islam." Jihadi's made that charge, not Malkin.
Calling someone a "dhimmi" is not an insult to the religion itself, but a charge against those who are submissive to it. Again, not inteh ballpark.
You will notice that Malkin said "Islamic
bullies," meaning the extremists, not the religion as a whole, just as she was talking about the rag eof Jihadi's not all of Islam, most of which obviously didn't care.
You've got nothing... except your own seemingly intense dislike for Malkin that has you bending over backwards to attack her for things she patently didn't say.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 29, 2006 03:30 PM (g5Nba)
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CY:
You're a writer. You have to know that words have deeper meaning than they might first appear to have--there's connotation as well as denotation.
You're right, of course: Malkin has never come out and written, "I HATE MUSLIMS." But she doesn't need to for her message to come across loud and clear.
Let's look for a moment at the word "dhimmi."
Back in the Bad Old Days, white people who sympathized with the African-American cause were called "nigger lovers." The people who used this phrase didn't mean it kindly; this wasn't like saying someone was an "animal lover" or a "plant lover." The Klan never gave out awards for "nigger lover of the year." This was a phrase used to attack people who practiced racial tolerance.
The phrase itself never would have come into being if the people who used it didn't think that working and socializing with blacks wasn't a bad idea. The idea, in other words, gave rise to the phrase.
The same holds true for "dhimmi." Malkin uses this word as an attack phrase against people she feels have sympathy with the Muslim cause--you say it means "submits to," but Malkin applies it to the New York Times, and nobody with any sanity left thinks that the Times literally submits to--receives its marching orders from--Allah or bin Laden. The Times may indeed be sympathetic to aspects of the Islamic cause, and that, in Malkin's view, is its crime--in the pages of the Times, sometimes Muslims are the good guys.
If Malkin didn't think that being sympathetic with Muslims was a bad idea, she wouldn't have a phrase at hand to attack those who practice this sympathy. It's the "n-word lover" situation all over again, except that Southern crackers at least admitted their prejudice; Malkin refuses.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at September 29, 2006 08:45 PM (GefTZ)
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An Unlikely Alliance
I wonder what the rest of the Arab world must make of
this:
Earlier this week, Israeli press reports suggested that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert met recently with a senior official in the Saudi government, maybe even with the Saudi king.
Olmert denied the reports but praised the Saudis for standing up against Hizballah in recent weeks. The Saudi government also dismissed reports of the meeting as a "fabrication." But other media reports persisted in suggesting that some contacts between Israeli and Saudi officials had taken place.
Whether or not the contacts took place, Saudi Arabia and Israel undoubtedly have a mutual interest -- Iran, said Dr. Guy Bechor from the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya.
Saudi Arabia, a majority Sunni Muslim country, is concerned about the strengthening of ties between Shi'ite Muslims in Iran and Iraq and with Hizballah in Lebanon, said Bechor.
Iran has so far resisted international pressure to suspend its nuclear program, which Western states believe is intended to produce atomic weapons -- something that Iran denies.
"[The Saudis fear that] if there is some type of attack against Iran from the West, Iran will hit Saudi Arabia," said Bechor in a telephone interview.
Saudi Arabia is looking for friends and connections in the region and is working to create a Sunni alliance together with Turkey, Egypt and Jordan, and that anti-terror alliance could secretly include Israel, said Bechor.
The world seems to think that only the United States and Israel are likely to forcefully oppose Iran's apparent desire for nuclear weapons, but if the Saudi government forms ties with Israel over their joint concerns about Iranian intentions, then the dynamics we assumed about the pending conflict have the possibility to radically change.
The hope is that political pressure can be brought to bear to convince Iran that an attempt to develop nuclear weapons is not in their best interests. If a political settlement is unreachable, the shift them focuses to when Iran may face military action, and by whom.
Today Israel reiterated a position held by U.S. President George W. Bush that Iran would not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons, and if Saudi Arabia can be counted upon for either passive or active support in military operations, the likelihood of political and military success in the wake of a pre-emptive strike increases dramatically.
If Saudi Arabia offers "passive" military aide by allowing Israeli strike aircraft to fly through and refuel in Saudi airspace, it would greatly reduce the amount of time IAF strike fights would have to spend in hostile air space, and enable Israeli aircraft to carry more munitions deeper into Iranian territory.
If Saudi Arabia offers active military assistance, particularly air power, then the situation could arise where a joint mission flown by the two most advanced air forces in the Middle East could put hundreds of strike aircraft over Iran, conceivably wrecking much of Iran's nuclear infrastructure without any direct involvement by American military forces at all. It is also worth mentioning that a joint strike conducted by regional powers instead of Western militaries, it would also be far more successful politically.
It seems unlikely that such a joint mission, or a multi-nation alliance mission is in the works, but the possibility will greatly complicate Iranian plans.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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The Israel/Saudi(and Kuwaiti) freeze started thawing about a year ago. It doesn't get much press, because that would support the "neo-con agenda".
I found a few throwaway lines at the end of a much longer NYT piece about a year ago that suggested this was happening.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 28, 2006 05:55 PM (ZVOjz)
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I fail to see why any of this surprises you. The Saudis have always loathed Iran, just as their leadership opposed Nasser during the 1960s; the Carter Doctrine was premised almost entirely on the perceived need to protect Saudi Arabia from all the US-manufactured weapons we'd sold Iran over the previous 15 years.
Israel, for its part, has always understood balance-of-power politics fairly well, which is why they helped train SAVAK (along with the United States) and provided military assistance to Iran throughout the rule of Mohammad Reza. I'm not sure what sort of "Israel/Saudi" thaw you're referring to, but I suspect it doesn't get much press in the US because it would unnecessarily confuse the moronic American consensus that the entire Arab world wishes to destroy Israel.
Posted by: d at September 28, 2006 09:06 PM (4K53w)
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Arab world wishes to destroy Israel
If they could they certainly would, but they can't now that Israel has nukes. Of necessity the somewhat sane ones have to come to accomodation.
Prior to Israel building the nukes, there were several attempts generally considered serious. Or have you conveniently forgotten those?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 29, 2006 12:16 AM (8uJYe)
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there were several attempts generally considered serious. Or have you conveniently forgotten those?
The best guess is that Israel acquired nuclear capability by 1966. Nukes have little to do with Israel's capacity to defend itself -- their conventional forces are extraordinarily powerful (though they are clearly inept at waging unconventional war, as two wars in Lebanon have demonstrated) While there's no question the Arab states rejected the creation of Israel and did everything possible to prevent it, contemporary historians -- especially Israeli ones -- no longer subscribe to the claim that Israel was ever outmatched during the 1948 war, the only "serious" threat ever posed to the existence of Israel. Israel's military was vastly superior to the Arab armies even prior to independence in May 1948. But if that war was a "serious" attempt to eradicate Israel, then the word "serious" loses all meaning. The Arab states performed so abysmally that within five years most of their leaders had been deposed, replaced by subsequent generations who understood that they could do little but wave their fists angrily while seeking to avoid direct confrontation with Israel.
If nuclear weapons were such a powerful deterrent, (a) Israel would actually 'fess up to having them; and (b) Israel would not have been attacked by Egypt and Syria in 1973 (or goaded into attacking Egypt in 1967).
Posted by: d at September 29, 2006 12:37 AM (4K53w)
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Torturing the Truth
The
New York Times has issued forth a
typically hysterical editorial attacking the
anti-terrorism legislation passed by the House yesterday on a vote of line 253-168. The Senate will likely pass their version of the bill today, and President Bush will likely sign the measure into law by the weekend.
I rarely read the Times anymore, especially their editorials, but from time to time, their hyperbole-filled missives are worth the read, if for no other reason than to try to understand just how out of touch the "liberal elite" is with mainstream Americans.
The Times editorial begins:
Here's what happens when this irresponsible Congress railroads a profoundly important bill to serve the mindless politics of a midterm election: The Bush administration uses Republicans' fear of losing their majority to push through ghastly ideas about antiterrorism that will make American troops less safe and do lasting damage to our 217-year-old nation of laws — while actually doing nothing to protect the nation from terrorists. Democrats betray their principles to avoid last-minute attack ads. Our democracy is the big loser.
Hmmmm... the "mindless politics of a midterm election." I wonder, does this ever apply to Democratic-led Congresses, or only Republican-led ones? I think we know the answer.
But here's the gem:
...The Bush administration uses Republicans' fear of losing their majority to push through ghastly ideas about antiterrorism that will make American troops less safe and do lasting damage to our 217-year-old nation of laws — while actually doing nothing to protect the nation from terrorists.
I'd like for the Times to go out of their way for once and try to apply a little logic and reason, and—God forbid, facts—to support their contention that the legislation will make American soldiers "less safe." The truth the Times and its liberal supporters refuse to confront is that our enemies in this war against Islamic terrorism do not now, nor have they ever, followed any civilized notion of how to conduct warfare against military or civilian targets, and when they have been able to capture American soldiers, they have tortured, mutilated and beheaded them.
Perhaps Bill Keller and company should search their own archives:
The American military said today that it had found the remains of what appears to be the two American soldiers captured by insurgents last week in an ambush south of the capital, and a senior Iraqi military official said the two men had been "brutally tortured."
An American military official in Baghdad, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that both bodies showed evidence of "severe trauma" and that they could not be conclusively identified. Insurgents had planted "numerous" bombs along the road leading to the bodies, and around the bodies themselves, the official said, slowing the retrieval of the Americans by 12 hours.
[snip]
General Caldwell declined to speak in detail about the physical condition of those who had been found, but said that the cause of death could not be determined. He said the remains of the men would be sent to the United States for DNA testing to determine definitively their identities. That seemed to suggest that the two Americans had been wounded or mutilated beyond recognition.
"We couldn't identify them," the American military official in Baghdad said.
Neither Mr. Keller nor his liberal supporters in the blogosphere seem to have anything approaching a reasoned response as to how this legislation will make the native barbarity of our enemies any more depraved than it already is. Perhaps the Times thinks they'll use dull knifes for beheading instead of sharp ones. The simple fact remains that no law we pass will affect how terrorists treat captured soldiers. They will brutally torture and kill any soldier they capture after this legislation becomes law, just as they did before.
As for the "lasting damage" the Times shrieks will occur, I notice they didn't try to provide specific details. Fortunately for the Times, hyperbole doesn't rely on factual support, as history shows that past wartime Democratic Presidents have done far more damage to the Constitution than measures our present Administration would even consider.
During World War I, Woodrow Wilson pushed through the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918, cruelly slapping aside the notion that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" embraced by today's defeatists. Heavy media censorship, the crushing of free speech about the war (at least for those that dissented) and even imprisoning former Presidential candidates was par for the course for Wilson's wartime Presidency.
Bush, in stark contrast, has not made any attempt to muzzle the press, even to the point of allowing classified document leaks to news agencies like the Times without shutting the paper down or putting so much as a single reporter in jail.
The hyperbole continues:
Republicans say Congress must act right now to create procedures for charging and trying terrorists — because the men accused of plotting the 9/11 attacks are available for trial. That's pure propaganda. Those men could have been tried and convicted long ago, but President Bush chose not to. He held them in illegal detention, had them questioned in ways that will make real trials very hard, and invented a transparently illegal system of kangaroo courts to convict them.
It was only after the Supreme Court issued the inevitable ruling striking down Mr. Bush's shadow penal system that he adopted his tone of urgency. It serves a cynical goal: Republican strategists think they can win this fall, not by passing a good law but by forcing Democrats to vote against a bad one so they could be made to look soft on terrorism.
It may come as a shock to the editors of the Times, but Democrats themselves have made themselves look soft on terrorism long before this legislation came around.
The party of "defeat and retreat" features leadership that wants to force the American military into a headlong withdrawal from Iraq, genocidally ignoring the fact that such an act would destabilize the fledgling democracy even worse, possibly leading today's sectarian violence to denigrate into full-scale genocide. John Murtha has yet to explain how withdrawing thousands of miles away to Okinawa will make the streets of Baghdad any safer. Ned Lamont has yet to explain how shifting our forces away from the central front of the war on Terror in Iraq and the terrorist forces assembled there will make America safer. The Fringe Left is far more interested in loosing Iraq to make the Bush Administration look bad than combating terrorism. Their only plan is withdrawal and defeat. Democrats look soft on terrorism because they are soft on terrorism as shown by their own actions, not the actions of any other group.
The screed goes on:
Last week, the White House and three Republican senators announced a terrible deal on this legislation that gave Mr. Bush most of what he wanted, including a blanket waiver for crimes Americans may have committed in the service of his antiterrorism policies. Then Vice President Dick Cheney and his willing lawmakers rewrote the rest of the measure so that it would give Mr. Bush the power to jail pretty much anyone he wants for as long as he wants without charging them, to unilaterally reinterpret the Geneva Conventions, to authorize what normal people consider torture, and to deny justice to hundreds of men captured in error.
This may come as a shock to the Times, but the legislation passed by the House does not reinterpret the murky language of the Geneva Conventions, and in fact, does just the opposite: it clarifies and delineates a clear policy of what constitutes legal interrogation methods. The United States have never before attempted to clearly define how U.S. law should meet Geneva's standards, even though it should have done so when the standard was agreed to in 1929. What upsets the Times and many on the left is that this legislation strips them of their ability to label anything and every interrogation technique they don't like as torture.
The Times Hyperbole Drive (unrelated to the Hitchhiker's Improbability Drive, and far less coherent) then kicks into overdrive as they kick out an unsupported list of possible abuses:
Enemy Combatants: A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted.
The President patently does not have this power. The House bill's language states that a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another tribunal will determine if someone is to be classified as an enemy combatant, not the President. The Times goes beyond hyperbole and delivers a falsification.
The Geneva Conventions: The bill would repudiate a half-century of international precedent by allowing Mr. Bush to decide on his own what abusive interrogation methods he considered permissible. And his decision could stay secret — there's no requirement that this list be published
As I stated previously, the legislation passed by the House does not reinterpret the murky language of the Geneva Conventions, and in fact, does just the opposite: it clarifies and delineates a clear policy of what constitutes legal interrogation methods. The Congress should have passed this legislation, or something like it, prior to World War II.
Habeas Corpus: Detainees in U.S. military prisons would lose the basic right to challenge their imprisonment. These cases do not clog the courts, nor coddle terrorists. They simply give wrongly imprisoned people a chance to prove their innocence.
Congress has the power to say that foreign terrorists are not entitled to the rights of American citizenship, and they have done so, much to the chagrin of those who would coddle them.
Judicial Review: The courts would have no power to review any aspect of this new system, except verdicts by military tribunals. The bill would limit appeals and bar legal actions based on the Geneva Conventions, directly or indirectly. All Mr. Bush would have to do to lock anyone up forever is to declare him an illegal combatant and not have a trial.
Again, more hyperbole based upon an outright falsification. President Bush does not determine the status of a captured terrorist; a Combatant Status Review Tribunal made up of military judges makes that determination.
Coerced Evidence: Coerced evidence would be permissible if a judge considered it reliable — already a contradiction in terms — and relevant. Coercion is defined in a way that exempts anything done before the passage of the 2005 Detainee Treatment Act, and anything else Mr. Bush chooses.
The Times does a masterful job of spinning the actual language of the legislation, which stipulates that coerced evidence could only be used if certain conditions were met. Among those conditions are that "totality of the circumstances renders the statement reliable," meaning that other information must support to coerced information. If a detainee confesses under interrogation to a bomb plot and no evidence can be found to support the admission, his confession cannot be used as evidence. Again, President Bush does not make any determinations whatsoever, the language of the bill explicitly delegates that power to the judge.
Secret Evidence: American standards of justice prohibit evidence and testimony that is kept secret from the defendant, whether the accused is a corporate executive or a mass murderer. But the bill as redrafted by Mr. Cheney seems to weaken protections against such evidence.
Of course, the Times is referring to American civil and criminal law, which follows a somewhat different set of rules than the military criminal justice system. With the conviction of terrorist-supporting lawyer Lynne Stewart, an ugly truth already known by many in the legal and intelligence communities was shown to the world; not only were terrorists using confidential lawyer-client letters to smuggle information to one another, they also discovered that some activist lawyers actively participated. The decision to allow some secret evidence and testimony to protect the lives of sources and intelligence operatives is a reasonable one. Apparently, the Times would rather a defendant learn the source of the information so that he could pass it along to others so that the sources could be eliminated. That the source is quite likely to be tortured before being murdered is not apparently a concern of the Times.
Offenses: The definition of torture is unacceptably narrow, a virtual reprise of the deeply cynical memos the administration produced after 9/11. Rape and sexual assault are defined in a retrograde way that covers only forced or coerced activity, and not other forms of nonconsensual sex. The bill would effectively eliminate the idea of rape as torture.
Of course the definition is unacceptably narrow for the Times. As I stated previously, the Congress, by finally defining terrorism, strips the ability of the Times to label anything and everything it wants as torture. The Times loses a rhetorical tool, and that seems to be their primary concern. The assertion made by the Times that "the bill would effectively eliminate the idea of rape as torture" is unconscionable, and a willful distortion of the bill's language and reality. There are literally millions of things the legislation didn't address—the price of tea in China, how long a detainee's hair may be, or if he's allowed to watch The View—but that does not translate into an acceptance or denial of a practice covered under other laws. The bill also refused to stipulate that the detainees cannot be assaulted by wookies or unicorns, so I'm certain the Times will address the oppression of terrorists by fictional beings in their next missive.
The Times finishes with a call to action for Democrats to filibuster the bill, which patently won't happen. Democrats may not like giving America the tools to fight terrorism, but unlike the Times, they are occasionally forced to interact with reality.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Bush, in stark contrast [to Woodrow Wilson], has not made any attempt to muzzle the press, even to the point of allowing classified document leaks to news agencies like the Times without shutting the paper down or putting so much as a single reporter in jail.
But let's be honest here. You'd prefer it if he did, right?
Posted by: d at September 28, 2006 11:51 AM (4K53w)
2
So this is what passes for a defense of Bush, these days? "Bush - not as bad as the most horrible abusers of our freedoms." or "Bush - no one put in jail - yet."
Posted by: zen_less at September 28, 2006 12:08 PM (zQcql)
3
You keep using the argument that it's only bad guys we're going to be treating like this. When the fact is that we don't know who has been locked up without trial. We're imprisoning people whom we aren't even certain are terrorists.
Why is it suddenly so absurd to demand that people whom we've locked up know why in fact they have been? Why, in America of all places, are people arguing that some don't have that right! This is still America isn't it?
Posted by: Chris at September 28, 2006 12:21 PM (2CznO)
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he has done everything possible to muzzle the press, which at this early date isn't much. doesn't mean he isn't trying.
Posted by: ja at September 28, 2006 12:22 PM (sMGwo)
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Wow, you've really tied yourself into knots defending things that if a Democrat tried to do you'd probably be screaming about. Have fun justifying the next move to pull us further down in the moral muck with the people we're fighting instead of upholding the higher principles that have made us great and free.
Posted by: x at September 28, 2006 12:28 PM (Xc7iG)
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Habeas Corpus, R.I.P. (1215 - 2006)
It makes me proud to be a Republican.
Posted by: Ed at September 28, 2006 12:32 PM (yfKhZ)
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WWI. Yep, a very unpopular, unnecissary war that the US has no business being part of. Makes perfect sense to me.
Posted by: Puddle Jumper at September 28, 2006 12:36 PM (xaPaW)
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our press provides it's own muzzle, as demonstrated by Newseek's Annie Leibowit'z BIG STORY! sad.
Posted by: KEN YTUARTE at September 28, 2006 12:41 PM (EVMYf)
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our press provides it's own muzzle, as demonstrated by Newseek's Annie Leibowit'z BIG STORY! sad.
Posted by: KEN YTUARTE at September 28, 2006 12:42 PM (EVMYf)
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"Our enemies in this war against Islamic terrorism do not now, nor have they ever, followed any civilized notion of how to conduct warfare."
So the world is made up up just us and the Islamic terrorists? There's no possibility of a soverign nation--say North Korea or Syria--using our rewrite of Geneva to detain our citizens without recourse and subject them to coercive interrogation?
"President Bush does not determine the status of a captured terrorist; a Combatant Status Review Tribunal made up of military judges makes that determination."
A Tribunal made up of "military" judges? And who commands the military?
"Congress has the power to say that foreign terrorists are not entitled to the rights of American citizenship, and they have done so, much to the chagrin of those who would coddle them."
So you're assuming that everyone who would ever be detained by these tribunals would always be a "foreign terrorist"? Since when is the right to habeus corpus--which predates the Magna Carta--a form or "coddling"?
"other information must support coerced information"
So the ends justify the means? So as long as someone else confirms a confession (maybe because the confirmation was coerced from him) then it's OK that we subjected that detainee to coersion?
Posted by: jeffbinnc at September 28, 2006 12:46 PM (ApbLi)
11
Oh.......a Combatant Status Review Tribunal. Using coerced testimony.... in secret..... with evidence not available to me should I be hauled in. Geez, I feel better now; why was I ever worried?
Like most of your brethern, you're a partisan Republican first, an American patriot second. Sickening.
Posted by: montysano at September 28, 2006 12:47 PM (QQhMz)
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Why suspend the habeas corpus in insurrections and rebellions? The parties who may be arrested may be charged instantly with a well defined crime; of course, the judge will remand them. If the public safety requires that the government should have a man imprisoned on less probable testimony in those than in other emergencies, let him be taken and tried, retaken and retried, while the necessity continues, only giving him redress against the government for damages. Examine the history of England. See how few of the cases of the suspension of the habeas corpus law have been worthy of that suspension. They have been either real treasons, wherein the parties might as well have been charged at once, or sham plots, where it was shameful they should ever have been suspected. Yet for the few cases wherein the suspension of the habeas corpus has done real good, that operation is now become habitual and the minds of the nation almost prepared to live under its constant suspension.
--Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1788.
Posted by: Whoohoogirl at September 28, 2006 03:45 PM (uA+Zt)
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Confederate Confused.
Here we go again.
Second post you delete. Let's try a third.
Is there any posible way that Right Wingers can understand that the war in Iraq is a mess?, that it is creating more terrorist?, that the war was started to prevent terrorism and is doing the exact opposite?, that attacks all over Iraq are now at the HUNDREDS per week, that in everything but name Iraq is in a Civil War now, that 62 %Iraqis want us dead (not out) BUT DEAD, that we can not sustain the war for much longer with our military over streached to the braking point, that the Pentagon is using "Contractors" as mercenaries to cover for Army personnel shortages at 10 times the cost, that there willl not be enough jails or torturers in America to keep up if we continue in our present way, etc, etc.
You can continue to delete posts my friend, but the truth is hard to delete.
In short is there any way that you can go back to beeing an American first and a partisan hack second? Or do you believe you are doing any one any good with your delusional blogs.
Posted by: gil at September 28, 2006 05:00 PM (SFoY3)
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Free Saddam!!
Free Saddam!!
He tortures terrorists. He doesn't coddle or sing lullabies or ask terrorists nicely not to kill his people or try to overthrow his government.
What is this guy doing on trial?
What has he done that is so bad?
Kill his own people? His own people he killed are terrorists.
Would you rather him ask very nicely that the terrorists don't try to overthrow his government?
Poor misunderstood Saddam. He's just trying to keep his citizens safe, and this is the thanks he gets?
Free Saddam!!
Free Saddam!!
Posted by: Robert at September 28, 2006 05:22 PM (VTtVl)
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Well Robert, he was Rummy's pal, and Poppy Bush left him in power precisely because he balanced the power of Iran.
Posted by: Beel at September 28, 2006 06:39 PM (8NnHY)
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Be careful what new powers you give the presedent. Two Words: President Hillary.
Posted by: Hal at September 28, 2006 07:06 PM (96Qbj)
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"Congress has the power to say that foreign terrorists are not entitled to the rights of American citizenship"
Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution says in part that "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it." Nothing anywhere in the Constitution about habeas corpus being restricted to US citizens. Or do you believe the Constution is a living document that has to be updated to fit modern conditions?
And who says detainees at Guatanamo and elsewhere are terrorists, anyway? Executive Branch employees are the ones who decide who to detain. In other contexts many Americans have contempt for the competence of government employees. It's amusing how confident some people can be about a government employee being incapable of error when accusing people of being terrorists.
The whole point of habeas corpus is to force the executive to give a reason why it is detaining someone. The Founding Fathers deeply distrusted executive power. People who don't want any degree of judicial oversight are subversives, trying to destroy our freedoms.
Posted by: Former Republican at September 28, 2006 07:11 PM (tF8wn)
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It seems to me bloggers like you will defend anything that the Bush admin does. Your attacks lose any teeth if you are not "Fair and balanced". Why is it that in America the only time your voice is heard is if you are in the far right or far left. Why dont Americans listen to the middle.
Contrary to what Bush says there is a middle ground. Guys, I beg of you stop pulling wool over your own eyes and chose the middle path. You cant become "evil" in order to fight evil. If you think we need to waterboard for every waterboard our troops receive, then you are forgetting the tenets of Bible. Please, please go back to when there were no Clintons, Bushs - thats the America we need to bring back. Not this one - I am disppointed.
Posted by: neal at September 28, 2006 07:19 PM (lRViZ)
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I don't remember sleeping for an entire year but I must have a some time. The 'Constitution of the United States' has been modified by the democrats and is now called the 'Constitution of the World, including terrorists'. What a bunch of jerks they have became. As the President said today the 'honorable democratic party is no more'. No honor, no patroitism, anti-american 24-7. The funny part is that they and their supporters will pay the price in the future and some of them have to be smart enough , I think, to know they are destroying the country.
Posted by: Scrapiron at September 28, 2006 07:52 PM (vFS/o)
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strips the ability of the Times to label anything and everything it wants as torture.
I would not bet on this. The NYT operates in a
Reality Distortion Field™ of epic proportion. I really don't think they'll change a thing in their rants.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 28, 2006 08:14 PM (ZVOjz)
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Is this what we've come to, standards-wise? Praising Bush for not jailing people exercising their 1st amendment rights. The Republic is doomed.
Posted by: Brent at September 28, 2006 08:26 PM (57eWK)
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the best part of your website is seeing you get raked over the coals for your asinine articles! Keep up the good work!
Posted by: hehehe at September 28, 2006 09:08 PM (JWU+M)
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Actually I find it very amusing that I read a very good editorial on this site and the aurthor gets slammed for it.
Someone that points to the actual lies and misrepresentations of the New York Times, points out the facts of the situation, shows by comparison how restrained Bush has been, (yes I say restrained) compared to former Democratic Presidents in times of war. You, rightly, state the facts for honest debate, and you get nothing but a bunch of criticisms. You state facts and they cry foul.
I have quite often disagreed with decisions that Bush has made, and probably will again.
But we are in a war, and in a war, you STAND BY YOUR COUNTRY and your president. You give him all the tools and power you can to help him win.
These are not soldiers, fighting for their country we are talking about therefore they HAVE no rights. They are not part of the military of any country, therefore the Geneva Convention should not apply to them.
To the comment about "creating more terrorists", has you READ the whole NIE report? Or just mouthing the words from the "objective" New York Times? I saw quite a bit good in that report, about the terrorists being "decentralized", "no global strategy" and is "becoming more diffused".
Then lets NOT forget Abu Ayyub al-Masri, and his statement today about 4,000 insurgents in Iraq have been killed.
Do we ever hear the people that are busy bashing our president mention these points? The good that has come? Of course not, some people are not big enough to notice the good and the right, and definitely not righteous enough to mention it.
Have we lowered ourselves so badly, that we cannot see the truth from the lies of politics?
I just admitted there are decisions that Bush has made that I disagreed with, can YOU admit the same about your party? I doubt that. The only time I see Democrats questioning their own party, is when they vote for something the President wants.
Wake up. We are at war. The Cut and run days are over, time to stand up tall and proud and get the job done.
If you cannot back your president, sit down, shut up and stay the hell out of his way.
Who am I to speak like this? I am an American who appreicates what MY President is trying to do for us. Do you?
By the way, for the record... Until 2001, I was a Democrat, until i saw the nature of we had become.
Great Article, Confederate Yankee. I will be adding you to my blogroll.
Posted by: Susan at September 28, 2006 09:46 PM (U5X/p)
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scrapiron.
The U.S. Constitution is the one document that sets us apart from tirans like Saddam.
Now it turns out we are about to "legalize" torturing our enemies just like Saddam.
Osama is not your enemy... He is your friend, you maniac Right Wingers are alike.
I am just going to love when the Right has to deal with a Democratic President with this kind of unlimited and uncheked powers. It is Right Wingers like the nut in Oklahoma that will get the taste of the new powers that the "Decider" has given to the Executive Power with a rubber stamp Congress doing what they have been doing for years now .... Bending over.... Banana Republic any one?
It is Right Wing nuts that have "training" camps in Montana, Wyoming, Louisiana, Alabama, etc. In short, It is you Right Wing idiots, the ones that will suffer the most with this new "redefinition" of torture.
I propose that if a Democrat wins the White House the first thing he/she should do is round up the bunch of Right Wing nuts lurking in the wilderness with camouflage fatigues pretending they are "soldiers" of heven knows what. They need some torture to confess where are they hiding their brain.
Remember when you Republicans used to see the Government as the enemy? What now? You have created a "little" qualifier to the extent you are willing to permit the Government to interfere in our lives..... It goes like; We Republicans have never liked the Government in our lives, with the exception that the Executive power can do wherever the hell he wants to any of us?
Welcome to the U.S.A the new Banana Repubic with El Presidente our great decider Bush!!
Posted by: gil at September 28, 2006 09:50 PM (SFoY3)
25
Thanks gil, by ranting and raving instead of addressing the actual facts of what were written, you just proved my point.
Assumptions are a bitch.... I never have complained about "government". Stick to the facts.
You did mention one thing of note though. The U S Constitution.... ummmm, so you know, the terrorists are NOT part of the US.
The US citizens are exempt from the military tribunals. You really should READ the key parts of the bill before talking about it.
Have a good night folks...tomorrow is another day.
Posted by: Susan at September 28, 2006 10:25 PM (U5X/p)
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People that support this shitting on America are filthier than any scum that was ever flushed down a toilet. The sooner you trash have been thrown into the garbage the better off America will be. Go to hell where you belong.
Posted by: Fred at September 28, 2006 10:59 PM (TUUkT)
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whoa man...put down the crack pipe.
Seriously, the things you say are absolutely UNAMERICAN and betray and murder the very thing you claim to protect.
Learn some history.
Posted by: Sam at September 28, 2006 11:57 PM (wwpuT)
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My father is a British subject and a legal resident of the USA for 25 years. He loves baseball, pays taxes, and is in most every other way American now. BUT, because he is not a citizen, some asshole can claim he is an "enemy combatant" although he has worked in Boston for the last 25 years and he is denied the right of habeas corpus to challenge the arrest. He is, in effect, a scumbag now to the rest of you.
This is not what my grandfather lost his leg in the Battle of the Bulge for.
It makes me sick.
Posted by: cdunlea at September 29, 2006 12:50 AM (ZunfF)
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Holy crap, Susan! It's been a while since I read such a torrent of mindless cliches...
The bill you defend actually
contains provisions by which American citizens can be detained as "unlawful enemy combatants." Setting aside your other incorrect claim that the Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens in US custody (it does), and the fact remains that your government is constitutionally obligated to abide by the Geneva Conventions and other relevant international treaties ratified by the Senate -- and the Geneva Conventions, contrary to mythology, do not permit the kind of legal black hole created by this awful bill. The 1949 provisions were clear enough, but they were revisited in 1977 and clarified (in Article 75) the fact that even in an unconventional war, no person can be denied minimal legal protections -- this includes being informed of the reasons for detention and being granted "generally recognized principles" of criminal justice.
Geneva 1949 and 1977 also prohibit the use of torture under any circumstances; although it is widely believed that 2/3 of the nations who signed the Convention on Torture (1984) do not abide by its provisions, I would hope that someone as patriotic as yourself would hold the United States to a higher standard. Evidently not.
Posted by: d at September 29, 2006 01:01 AM (4K53w)
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I have posted the link to the actual Detainee Bill.
Military Commissions Act of 2006--S.3930
Delete my Blog address if we are not allowed to post them, but it is where I have the links so here it is.
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/
Posted by: susan at September 29, 2006 01:04 AM (U5X/p)
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Cluephone cdullea, he doesn't need to be foreign to be declared an enemy compatant. The new legislation applies to US citizens as well. Any one of us could be rounded up KGB style and disappeared, for no reason other than El Presidente deems it so. I'm thinking it might be a good time to get out of the US. The coming collapse will be brutal. Some real estate in the balmy Yukon Territories sounds nice right now.
Posted by: Randy at September 29, 2006 01:08 AM (fdV3J)
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thankfully there weren't any patriots like you at lexington and concord. oh....wait...there were, and they were all wearing nice red coats.
this is a very dark time in the history of this nation.
Posted by: jay k. at September 29, 2006 08:09 AM (yu9pS)
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osama hates our freedoms, so we'll get rid of them. he hated saddam, we got rid of him. he wanted us out of saudi. we acquiesced. he wanted 'the central front on terror' to be somewhere that he most certainly ain't. done and done. who's driving this hummer?
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 09:51 AM (j1grE)
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What? Did someone just say something?
Oh, nevermind...
Posted by: Bill Clinton at September 29, 2006 09:57 AM (g5Nba)
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wow, i really stepped into that one. point is, it's hard to decide whether al qaeda or iran is the biggest beneficiary of invading iraq, pulling out of saudi, and eliminating pesky things like habeas corpus.
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 10:08 AM (j1grE)
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to be fair, i guess iran doesn't really care about our "re-thinking" our constitution, except insofar as we're moving closer toward their system of jurisprudence. that might make them mildly happy.
our cutting and running from saudi is probably a slight plus for iran, but a real feather in osama's turban.
iraq is a wash. both iran and al qaeda have gained so much from our involvement there.
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 10:13 AM (j1grE)
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Now we know for sure you right-wingnuts are the ignorant hillbilly cracker rednecks we always suspected.
You and Bush are traitors who have done nothing but damage our beloved nation. You are the ones who belong in Gitmo.
Posted by: tommo at September 29, 2006 10:20 AM (kmaBF)
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cy...your so-called fellow n. carolinians must be rolling over in their graves, thinking that they gave life and limb for freedoms that you are all too willing to surrender at the slightest sign of danger. how do you sleep at night?
Posted by: jay k. at September 29, 2006 10:23 AM (yu9pS)
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Rhetoric from leading liberal voices such as John Kerry and Michael Moore are indisinguishable from the rhetoric issued . . .
Someone who has loudly crowed about teaching college-level composition courses should mind his grammar. "Rhetoric" is a singular noun.
More substantively, it accomplishes or proves nothing to point out that Osama Bin Laden ridiculed W. for continuing to "My Pet Goat" after Andrew Card informed him of the attacks on 9-11. However much that statement might "indistinguishable" from the rhetoric of Michael Moore, the key difference between Osama Bin Laden and Michael Moore is that Bin Laden
wants Bush to continue with his mindless policies.
In the speech you cite, Bin Laden thanked Bush for making it so "easy for us to provoke and bait" him and his administration. "All that we have to do is to send two mujahedin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written 'al-Qaeda,' in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses . . ." In this video tape, released a few days before the 2004 elections, Bin Laden was positively gleeful at the possibility that George Bush's "war on terror" might continue.
Now that your Congress has formally accepted tyranny, I'm sure Bin Laden is delighted -- as eager as he was in 2004 to see what next these Americans are willing to surrender.
Posted by: d at September 29, 2006 11:59 AM (4K53w)
40
Cluephone cdullea, he doesn't need to be foreign to be declared an enemy compatant. The new legislation applies to US citizens as well. Any one of us could be rounded up KGB style and disappeared, for no reason other than El Presidente deems it so. I'm thinking it might be a good time to get out of the US. The coming collapse will be brutal. Some real estate in the balmy Yukon Territories sounds nice right now.
Posted by Randy at September 29, 2006 01:08 AM
Randy and D - I just read S.3930 and have had a hard time seeing the actual part of that law that would allow any "
one of us could be rounded up KGB style and disappeared, for no reason other than El Presidente deems it so."
Specifically, what part of S.3930 allows for that?
Posted by: SouthernRoots at September 29, 2006 01:55 PM (jHBWL)
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(A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means--
`(i) Â… or
`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the
enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006,
has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal,/b> established under the authority of the President or the secretary of Defense.
not an alien, not a non-citizen, a person. If bush (or president hillary) says you're a terrorist, then you're a terrorist. 800 years of jurisprudence down the drain. you must be so proud.
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 02:46 PM (j1grE)
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What is with your reading comprehension problem, that you can't even understand what you elect to quote?
The tribunals--not the President, be it Bush or the next one--makes the determination.
I'll say it again:
Judges make the call. The President is not directly involved in making that determination in any way, shape, or form, any more than a President who appoints a Justice to a federal court or the Supreme Court acutally decides the cases before them.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 29, 2006 02:55 PM (g5Nba)
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a "person," not an "alien." do i have to post it another three times before you understand?
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 03:11 PM (j1grE)
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or another competent tribunal, established under the authority of the President
again, if any ad hoc, divinely sanctioned star chamber wants to make you a terrorist, you're a terrorist. look for people to disappear at an increasing rate.
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 03:14 PM (j1grE)
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the upside is, though, we can finally all disabuse ourselves of the notion that we are the "freest country on earth" and other adolescent chest-beating
Posted by: benjoya at September 29, 2006 03:19 PM (j1grE)
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Wait, CY -- you mean
unelected, unaccountable judges "make the call?" This is outrageous.
On a related note, do you ordinarily take this kind of pounding -- I was going to say "waterboarding," but until yesterday that sort of treatment would have violated the War Crimes Act of 1997 -- in your comments? Or is this just a temporary uptick brought on by the "Stupidest Blogger in America" award you received from
Erik at Alterdestiny?
Posted by: d at September 29, 2006 04:56 PM (4K53w)
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benjoya -
§ 948c. Persons subject to military commissions
Any alien unlawful enemy combatant engaged in hostilities or having supported hostilities against the United States is subject to trial by military commission as set forth in this chapter.
§ 948d. Jurisdiction of military commissions
(a) JURISDICTION.—A military commission under this chapter shall have jurisdiction to try any offense made punishable by this chapter, sections 904 and 906 of this title (articles 104 and 106 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or the law of war when committed by an alien unlawful enemy combatant before, on, or after September 11, 2001.
(b) LAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANTS.—Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants. Lawful enemy combatants who violate the law of war are subject to chapter 47 of this title. Courts-martial established under that chapter shall have jurisdiction to try a lawful enemy combatant for any offense made punishable under this chapter.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at September 29, 2006 08:43 PM (jHBWL)
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Good point reminding readers that the Geneva Conventions and law/customs/usages of war do not equal U.S. criminal or civil law. So many seem incapable of grasping that point.
I've linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2006/10/re-torturing-truth.html
Posted by: Consul-At-Arms at October 01, 2006 03:16 PM (/HsJx)
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Durham Police Turn to Psychic
This is
interesting:
After exhausting all leads in the murder case of Janet Abaroa, Durham police homicide investigators are turning to a famed psychic for help.
Lead homicide investigator Jack Cates confirmed Wednesday that investigator S.W. Vaughan has begun using a psychic to assist in developing leads in the 17-month-old probe into the stabbing death of the 25-year-old wife and mother.
Raven Abaroa reported discovering his wife's body in the couple's Ferrand Drive home on April 26, 2005. The murder weapon was never recovered, and while police would not say if there were signs of forced entry into the home, they said they believed the murder "was not a random act."
Cates would not confirm the identity of the psychic, but a source with knowledge of the case told The Herald-Sun that high-profile psychic Laurie McQuary of Lake Oswego, Ore.-based Management by Intuition, had stepped in to help develop leads.
I'm ambivalent on whether or not people have psychic abilities, but when a case goes cold as this one apparently has, any extra set of eyes reviewing the information accumulated so far has to help. I'll be interested to see if this results in new leads.
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September 27, 2006
al Qaeda Letter Apparently Disputes NIE
A
letter (PDF) found in the rubble of the safehouse in which al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi was killed seems to dispute some of the dire conclusions reached in the leaked excerpts of the National Intelligence Estimate as published by the
New York Times and
Washington Post last week.
The captured letter sheds new light on the friction between al-Qa`ida's senior leadership and al-Qa`ida's commanders in Iraq over the appropriate use of violence. The identity of the letter's author, “`Atiyah,” is unknown, but based on the contents of the letter he seems to be a highly placed al-Qa`ida leader who fought in Algeria in the early 1990s. `Atiyah's letter echoes many of the themes found in the October 2005 letter written to Zarqawi by al-Qa`ida's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri; indeed, it goes so far as to explicitly confirm the authenticity of that earlier letter. `Atiyah's admonitions in this letter, like those of Zawahiri in his letter to Zarqawi, also dovetail with other publicly available texts by al-Qa`ida strategists.
Although `Atiyah praises Zarqawi's military success against coalition forces in Iraq, he is most concerned with Zarqawi's failure to understand al-Qa`ida's broader strategic objective: attracting mass support among the wider Sunni Muslim community. `Atiyah reminds Zarqawi that military actions must be subservient to al-Qa`ida's long-term political goals. Zarqawi's use of violence against popular Sunni leaders, according to `Atiyah, is undermining al-Qa`ida's ability to win the “hearts of the people.” 2
According to `Atiyah, Zarqawi's widening scope of operations, culminating with the November 2005 hotel bombings in Amman, Jordan, has alienated fellow Sunnis and reduced support for the global al-Qa`ida movement. In this vein, `Atiyah instructs Zarqawi to avoid killing popular Iraqi Sunni leaders because such actions alienate the very populations that al-Qa`ida seeks to attract to its cause.3 `Atiyah also encourages Zarqawi to forge strategic relationships with moderate Sunnis, particularly tribal and religious leaders, even if these leaders do not accept Zarqawi's religious positions.
`Atiyah instructs Zarqawi to follow orders from Usama Bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri on major strategic issues, such as initiating a war against Shiites; undertaking large-scale operations; or operating outside of Iraq. `Atiyah goes on to criticize Zarqawi's board of advisors in Iraq for their lack of adequate political and religious expertise, and he warns Zarqawi against the sin of arrogance. Because al-Qa`ida is in what `Atiyah calls a “stage of weakness,” `Atiyah urges Zarqawi to seek counsel from wiser men in Iraq— implying that there might be someone more qualified than Zarqawi to command al-Qa`ida operations in Iraq.
`Atiyah closes with a request that Zarqawi send a messenger to “Waziristan” (likely, Waziristan, Pakistan) in order to establish a reliable line of communication with Bin Laden and Zawahiri. `Atiyah confirms in the letter that al-Qa`ida's overall communications network has been severely disrupted and complains specifically that sending communications to Zarqawi from outside of Iraq remains difficult. Interestingly, he explains how Zarqawi might use jihadi discussion forums to communicate with al-Qa`ida leadership in Waziristan.
According to this captured document:
- Zarqawi had failed to understand and execute al Qaeda's broader strategic objectives, and instead had alienated fellow Sunnis from al Qaeda, reducing their support of the terror organization.
- Zarqawi group did not have "adequate political and religious expertise" and was "in a stage of weakness."
- al Qaeda's communications lines have been severely disrupted.
The al Qaeda letter shows a terrorist group that does not seem to feel it is winning. This seems to be very much in contrast to the version of events as published in the Post's article, where it is claimed that "the situation in Iraq has worsened the U.S. position."
Note that the Post article does not seem to cast a critical eye toward this NIE, even though in the same article, it points out that all of the conclusion in the 2002 NIE "turned out to be false."
I suppose it is possible that both al Qaeda and the United States could be facing concurrent setbacks, but it appears to me that our leader isn't hiding in a mountain cave, nor in any immediate threat of being killed by a missile-equipped drone high overhead.
If I am to believe either document, I think the captured al Qaeda document shows the true situation on the ground far more accurately, as bad as that may be for the media and Democratic Party view.
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Posted by: brando at September 27, 2006 11:42 PM (K+VjK)
2
Zarqawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq != Al Qaeda, the global terrorism group. Bin Laden's Al Qaeda is, unfortunately, thriving. There was that little truce in Pakistan, with the government basically taking their hands off the Waziristan region. I don't think Bin Laden's felt this comfortable since around October '01.
Posted by: arbotreeist at September 28, 2006 01:06 AM (hCSK7)
3
Two points:
(1) None of this contradicts the NIE (or the reporting on it), which describes al-Qaeda as an organization that has been disrupted even as the overall position of the United States has been weakened.
(2) Fun and thrilling as it may be to sift through unfiltered documents dumped into the public sphere, I'd be cautious about dissing the NIE so swiftly. After all, it was in part
because earlier NIEs were so badly flawed that your president -- after significant cajoling agreed to reorganize the nation's intelligence apparatus, currently overseen by John Negroponte. Unless you assume that George Bush fouled up this process as badly as he's fouled up the war itself -- and I'd be willing to grant the former if you'll concede the latter -- I don't know why you'd assume that these reforms haven't generated better, more coordinated assessments.
Then again, I guess sifting through unfiltered intelligence and reaching wacky, unsubstantiated, faith-based conclusions is what got us into this bovine war to begin with. Why should Doug Feith be the only one to have that experience? Go nuts, I say.
Posted by: d at September 28, 2006 01:22 AM (4K53w)
4
The sad part is that we have some so-called conservative Republicans aiding and abetting the liberals and the news media. We need more conservatives like our own Sen. Fred Smith who will stand up to the libs and those who intentionally or unintentionally support the Jihadists.
Posted by: Nathan Tabor at September 28, 2006 07:41 AM (vFS/o)
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Alternative Headlines
CNN is currently running with the
following headline:
White House refuses to release full terror report
The opening text follows below:
The White House refused Wednesday to release in full a previously secret intelligence assessment that depicts a growing terrorist threat and has fueled the election-season fight over the Iraq war.
Press secretary Tony Snow said releasing the full report, portions of which President Bush declassified on Tuesday, would jeopardize the lives of agents who gathered the information.
"We don't want to put people's lives at risk," Snow told a White House news briefing.
How about we try on some alternative headlines CNN could have run?
White House refuses to endanger intelligence operatives
White House refuses to expose U.S. intelligence methods to the media
Bush Administration insists on keeping CIA agents alive
Snow: '"We don't want to put people's lives at risk'
I guess it's simply a matter of perspective and goals.
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Yes, of course when they declassify documents they never strike out those sorts of things. Except for every single time.
Posted by: calling all toasters at September 27, 2006 12:23 PM (vdzoO)
2
Although refusing to endanger CIA operatives would indeed be news....
Posted by: calling all toasters at September 27, 2006 12:24 PM (vdzoO)
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Legacy of Lies
The Clintons, the Media, and the WMD Attack On America They Refused to Tell You About
Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has jumped into the controversy over Bill Clinton's hissy fit this past Sunday, stating that Clinton likely went into the interview predetermined to pick a fight:
"I think that as the most experienced professional in the Democratic Party, he didn't walk onto that set and suddenly get upset," Gingrich said. "He probably decided in advance he was going to pick a fight with Chris Wallace."
This, Gingrich said, may have been a good strategy.
"I think as a calculated political decision, it's reasonably smart," he said.
Perhaps Clinton did calculate his response, but I don't know that by casting a light on the common post-/9/11 perception that Clinton obviously didn't do enough to deter terrorism—a perception shared by Osama bin Laden himself—that he calculated wisely.
Senator Clinton attempted to defend her husband yesterday, saying that:
"I'm certain that if my husband and his national security team had been shown a classified report entitled 'Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States,' he would have taken it more seriously than history suggests it was taken by our current president and his national security team."
This is a categorical lie, easily disproven.
The 1993 World Trade Center bombing, financed by al Qaeda's Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, was the first—and to date only—WMD attack in America by al Qaeda and Iraq-affiliated terrorists.
If you have never heard this before, it is because the Clinton Administration downplayed the facts of the case, and a compliant and overwhelmingly liberal mainstream media still refuses to deliver the facts to the America people.
Ramzi Yousef, a Kuwaiti-born al Qaeda terrorist using an Iraqi passport, concocted a plan to detonate a large ammonium nitrate bomb in the basement-level parking decks of WTC 1. The primary intent was to have the foundation of Tower 1 compromised, toppling it into WTC 2, bringing both buildings down and killing as many as possible of the 50,000 people who worked there.
Abdul Rahman Yasin, the Iraqi bomb builder who retreated to Iraq after the attack and lived under Saddam Hussein's protection and with his financial support until the 2003 invasion (just ignore the explicit al Qaeda-Iraq link), created a massive 1,310 lb bomb.
Answers.com has the details about this bomb, which was not a conventional car bomb as we have often been led to believe, but a complex IED and chemical weapon (my bold):
Yousef was assisted by Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin [1] . Yasin's complex 1310 lb (600 kg) bomb was made of urea pellets, nitroglycerin, sulfuric acid, aluminum azide, magnesium azide, and bottled hydrogen. He added sodium cyanide to the mix as the vapors could go through the ventilation shafts and elevators of the towers. The van that Yousef used had four 20 ft (6 m) long fuses, all covered in surgical tubing. Yasin calculated that the fuse would trigger the bomb in twelve minutes after he had used a cigarette lighter to light the fuse.
Yousef wanted the smoke to remain in the tower, therefore catching the public eye by smothering people inside. He anticipated Tower One collapsing onto Tower Two after the blast. The materials to build the bomb cost approximately US$300.
Wikipedia, FAS, and many other sources confirm both the use and the intent of this cyanide-laced weapon.
As any fan of spy movies and novels knows, cyanide salts are extremely lethal even in small doses of 100-200 milligrams. Wikipedia provides the effects:
Once more than 100–200 mg of sodium cyanide is consumed, consciousness is lost within one minute, sometimes within 10 seconds, depending on the strength of the body's immunity and the amount of food present in the stomach. After a span of about 45 minutes, the body goes into a state of coma or deep sleep and the person may die within two hours if not treated medically. During this period, convulsions may occur. Death occurs mainly by cardiac arrest.
Yasin's bomb was designed to use both conventional blast mechanisms to attempt to topple the buildings and create a poisonous cyanide cloud to kill anyone inside Tower 1.
As we know, Yasin's bomb failed in both of its goals.
The World Trade Center Towers still stood despite the al Qaeda attack, and the cyanide, instead of being released as a gas as Yasin had designed, was instead vaporized by the explosion. The first chemical weapons attack by al Qaeda on the United States was a dud.
And so when I hear Hillary Clinton state that her husband would have taken the threat of an al Qaeda attack inside the United States "more seriously than history suggests," than the current President did, I have to laugh. Bill Clinton was President of the United States when lower Manhattan was the victim of an al Qaeda plot executed by an Iraqi bomb-builder who detonated a chemical/conventional weapon under tens of thousands of Americans. President Clinton later knew what the bomb was composed of, knew how it was intended to be used, and what threat al Qaeda posed.
Bill Clinton was President for another 7 years, 10 months, 25 days after this attack.
His record of "fighting" terrorism during that time period speaks for itself.
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As someone who lives in North Louisiana and thus watches the activites in Arkansas, I can assure you that Clinton did not "lose it". Nothing comes out of his mouth that is not calculated and will advance him or his wife or the party.
Posted by: David Caskey at September 27, 2006 12:09 PM (6wTpy)
2
sodium cyanide + sulphuric acid == cyanide gas
I've handled sodium and potassium cyanides by the drum in the electroplating business. First thing, and most important thing, you learn in any plating shop is that cyanides stay at one end of the building, acids at the other end, and you don't let'em get near each other.
BTW, I wasn't aware the WTC bomb had cyanide in it, so the media/Clinton coverup must have been pretty good.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 27, 2006 09:09 PM (ZVOjz)
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September 26, 2006
NIE Declassified, Boring
It's
here (PDF) if you really must read it, but it won't tell you news junkies anything you haven't already figured out for yourselves.
The only question I have is whether or not either the NY Times or Washington Post will admit they were used as dupes in a propaganda effort.
I'm guessing they won't.
Update: From Hugh Hewitt:
The democratic Party and its agenda journalist allies are campaigning for retreat from Iraq, a retreat that would be a decisive victory for the jihadists. Thus any vote for any Congressional Democrat is a vote against victory and a vote for vulnerability.
And that is the conclusion supported by the NIE, touted just 48 hours ago by the left as the key document of this political season.
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They are already being re-used. Harmon says, "OH! OH! OH! OH! But WAIT! there is ANOTHER NIE that NOONE HAS SEEN! lets see when THAT! is de-classified"
Of course the "other" NIE, is an initial draft, being updated every day, while analysts are sifting through the rawish data before publication. So the spin is gonna be "the administration won't let us see the raw data of standing intelligence, so they are spinning and cherry picking intel"
Note to people who bitch about "cherry picking intel" You are SUPPOSED TO CHERRY PICK INTEL thats why we have ANALYSTS! An Analysts JOB is to CHERRY PICK intel, and then pass it on in a form that is redefined.
ALL intelligence that touches the executive abstent specific order is ALWAYS CHERRY PICKED, by the ANALYSTS!
CRIMINY!
Sorry for my irritation.
I'm fin.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at September 27, 2006 02:13 AM (QTv8u)
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With the Dem’s using Bush’s policy as a cause of some uprising in Islamic terrorism and thus deflecting a clear look back into the past and the failure of policy during the Clinton era, now would be a excellent time to review Dem’s/Clinton’s policies as their being the catalyst and accelerant which ultimately led to UBL’s ‘declaration of war’ - 9-11 and beyond.
Do that, you watch how fast the Dem’s start singing the tune, ‘we shouldn’t be focusing on the past but the future.’
Of course, their future is a return to past policy....
Posted by: Eg at September 27, 2006 02:44 AM (lBFL9)
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Here's a very good example in todays edition of Lebanon's Daily-Star,
Damascus warns diplomatic impasse means more conflict. Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem also said that the "war on terror" has failed and that US policies were behind the September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.Given UBL's team began planning somewhere in 98' or 99' quite obviously it couldn't have been Bush's policy which the Syrian's are now criticizing.
Take-it away 'nupe, no sex here. I didn't inhale' - Bubba....
Posted by: Eg at September 27, 2006 03:02 AM (lBFL9)
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The Democratic Plan for Dealing With Islamic Terrorism
more...
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You are bad and have a weird sense of humor ( i love it) but you have one thing down pat, you know how to get on the democrats SL.
Posted by: Scrapiron at September 26, 2006 08:08 PM (fEnUg)
2
THIS is the democrats plan for dealing with terrorism.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 26, 2006 08:19 PM (ZVOjz)
Posted by: dusty at September 28, 2006 09:35 AM (xLMoT)
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Re-Stating the Obvious: Some Do Hate America
An increasingly dyspeptic Matthew Yglesias states that we are now the
leading terrorist state:
Consequently, the United States now presents itself as what amounts to the globe's largest and most powerful rogue state -- a nuclear-armed superpower capable of projecting military force to the furthest corners of the earth, acting utterly without legal or moral constraint whenever the president proclaims it necessary.
Please tell me why anyone in America should take people like this seriously. At least Yglesias is honest when he strongly implies he and many other liberals like him are not proud to be Americans. At least he's out of denial.
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You're trying to elide the crucial distinction between 'rogue state' (i.e., a state that defies international law) and 'terrorist state' (i.e., a state that actively commits or sponsors terrorist acts). What's more, the 'rogue state' language simply (deliberately) echoes Bush's own words: "rogue regimes whose cruel methods match their determination to crush the human spirit".
You're also trying to elide the distinction between 'proud to be an American' (there is no evidence that this does not apply to Matt) and 'proud of
every single thing the American government does' (which, obviously, is something else altogether.
And speaking of 'proud to be an American'...if you're proud to be an American, why do you embrace the label of traitors?
Posted by: Tom Hilton at September 26, 2006 04:27 PM (crtph)
2
Many of us who are proud Americans believe it is wrong to torture. That's what the bad guys have always done and they've always been condemned by the United States, even when we've been faced with threats more serious than Muslim terrorists. Until now. Until George W. Bush.
Posted by: Pug at September 26, 2006 09:15 PM (9Ulx4)
3
Until now. Until George W. Bush.
What an abject ignorance of history. FDR had six German saboteurs
executed before they commited a single attack; Bush merely wants tough questioning to prevent attacks.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 26, 2006 11:31 PM (BTdrY)
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Not to pluck a well-worn harp here, but anyone with a blog entitled "Confederate Yankee" is utterly disqualified from making judgments about the "abject ignorance of history."
Regardless, I might draw your attention to a curious detail in the tale of the German saboteurs: each of the accused was in US custody by June 27, 1942. They were tried the next month and executed on August 9, 1942 -- less than two months after their capture.
Whatever one thinks of the sentence of death handed out by FDR's military commission, this much is obvious: What George Bush
wants is not the right to carry out "tough questioning." What he wants is the right to imprison suspects (most of whom, unlike the German saboteurs, were captured not by US officials but instead the Pakistani ISI and various Northern Alliance warlords) for indeterminate periods of time without charges or trials; he wants the press and public to resist the urge to scrutinize his actions (enlisting, for example, the aid of various fools to insist that his only aim is to "prevent attacks"); and he wants to redefine a whole array of international human rights norms to indemnify Americans for "tough questioning" tactics (like sleep deprivation) that once softened up Soviet prisoners for show trials.
If your Fearless Leader possessed genuinely persuasive evidence against most of the prisoners he's holding in Guantanamo or Baghram or EuroDisney, can you imagine why he wouldn't relish the opportunity to place their crimes on display? Or does he just really, really like to have people waterboarded?
Posted by: d at September 27, 2006 12:07 AM (4K53w)
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The ONLY place anyone called America a "terrorist state" was in YOUR post. Matt never said that. Only YOU used those words.
Does this mean you hate America?
You complain that "liberals like him are not proud to be Americans" because the don't want America torturing people. Are you actually saying that you are PROUD that America is torturing people?
Posted by: Dave Johnson at September 27, 2006 12:37 AM (a+eEb)
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More "tough questioning" (via
The Independent -- for some reason, the link was rejected by this site due to "questionable content"):
It is alleged the nine Iraqis, arrested on 14 September 2003, were kept hooded, cuffed, deprived of sleep and beaten for failing to maintain stress positions - all pre-interrogation "conditioning" techniques the prosecution insisted are banned under international law. The hearing was told the prisoners were hit with iron bars, kicked, starved, and forced to drink their own urine. Mr Matairi told the court he feared his three children would end up fatherless. "We were hit all the time, continuously without knowing the reason why," he said. He warned staff at the hotel: "We are going to die". During interrogation by the British soldiers, he denied being a member of the Baath Party and insisted a cache of weapons found at the hotel was for protection. Nearby, he said, he could hear Mr Mousa's harrowing cries before he died. "His wife had cancer and had passed away six months earlier. He kept saying, 'my children are going to be orphans, I'm going to die, blood, blood.' The interpreter - helping the soldiers - was not interpreting that for him."
Mr. Yankee, do you think President Bush endorses the methods alleged to have been used by the British in this case? Or are innocent hotel operators also trained by al-Qaeda to allege torture wherever they go?
Posted by: d at September 27, 2006 01:36 AM (4K53w)
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So, in the liberal mind, someone can be “disqualified” because you don’t like the name of their blog?
Deep thoughts.
As for the German saboteurs, FDR had them killed for being—get this—“unlawful combatants,” and in
Ex Parte Quirin Chief Justice Harlan Stone supported the decision. As Matt Herrington notes in his review of George Fletcher’s “Romantics at War:”
The Germans obviously were not civilians; they had conspired to sabotage American targets at Germany's behest. But when they took off their uniforms and set out to do skullduggerous harm in plainclothes, they forfeited their license to act as capital "S" soldiers within the meaning and protection of the Geneva Conventions. They were indeed "unlawful combatants," in my view - just as the Supreme Court held. And while it makes sense for opposing sides to exchange POWs at the end of the war, rather than executing them all, it is a powerful deterrent against sabotage (and its cousin, terrorism) to execute saboteurs (and by extension, terrorists.) In short, rules matter.
If you are a bit slow on the uptake, it is this: The Justice Department has legal precedent passed down from a previous wartime President and Supreme Court that unlawful combatants have
no rights under the Geneva Conventions.
None.
Even under Geneva, by extending terrorists rights that they have not earned according to third Geneva 4.1.2, no nation is under obligation to try detainees. It is in fact preferred that those captured are not to be tried, as the practice of trying those captured in war can lead to “kangaroo courts” (or as you call them, “show trials”) trying soldiers and executing them without a fair defense. The standard, observed by all civilized nations, paid lip service to by less than civilized nations, and utterly ignored by our current foes, is that those captured are to be held until the conflict is over, and then repatriated, without trial.
By calling for these terrorists to be tried in courts by their opposition during wartime, liberals are going against the will and purpose of the Geneva Conventions. Once again, liberals are on the wrong side of history, and conveniently ignore the fact that they help justify the history they now circumstantially oppose.
As for “torture,” I don’t know of a single person who condones the practice, as effective as history has shown it to be in extracting information from those who have it.
But what the President is asking for has not historically been defined as torture; liberals and their allies-by-circumstance (terrorists and anti-America regimes, in this instance, who often use real torture themselves) have attempted to redefine torture and the terms of confinement to the point now that the terrorists interred at Guantanamo Bay have better nutrition, health, dental care, and living conditions than they ever did in their home nations before they were captured. Other than their confinement, they have a better standard of living than many Americans below the poverty line. We run the only POW camp in the history of the world where prisoners have actually gained an average of 13 pounds during confinement because of the liberal coddling of those trying to kill us.
WeÂ’ve seen real torture; our enemies are past masters of it, using rape, power tools, crude medical instruments, beheadings, amputation and other implementations of
real torture, not to extract information, but to intimidate and strike fear into the hearts of others.
In response, we use techniques that are safe and cause no physical damage to make them uncomfortable and induce them to talk.
You seek to redefine torture as a political tool to attack an American Administration that is trying to save the lives of American citizens because you hate a President who has defeated you at every turn.
You donÂ’t give a damn about these terrorists. You merely seek to redefine torture as a political argument, and donÂ’t give a damn how many America lives are threatened by your posturing.
As we get closer to November, the American people at large are going to begin paying attention to politics once again, and they are going to see once more a liberal-led Democratic Party that is far more interested in gaining power by any means necessary than keeping them alive. You will lose once more, and I can only imagine the depths you will stoop to then in your impotent rage.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 27, 2006 08:30 AM (g5Nba)
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Is Yglesias anti-American? Only when his "progressive" side is out of power. Like so many progressives, Yglesias would side with any enemy of the US in order to regain that power. I watched this same behavior when the great struggle was over the future of materialism (capitalism versus socialism). We are now watching these same whackos attempt to continue this despicable effort with the war on radical Islam (aka War on Terror).
Yglesias only claims to become satisfied if enemies captured in this war were treated with the same consideration given to Americans arrested in a criminal case (otherwise, why else suggest that Habeas Corpus even applies to non-citizens captured).
But even if this were to come to pass--allowed by misguided individuals who don't understand the true goal of "progressives"--Yglesias would only find more faux reasons to make such bombastic statements like "An American prepared to casually toss out the most fundamental principles of international humanitarian diplomacy" (whatever that means) and "...a grim future brought to us by grim and deranged men...".
So are Yglesias and the rest of his ilk anti-American? No, they are even worse than that. They are merely opportunists for power as well as being apologists/appeasers for aggression. That is what the American people will see in the upcoming election and that is why Democrats--whose party has become overrun by these creatures--will lose yet again.
Posted by: iconoclast at September 27, 2006 10:27 AM (Jpc2l)
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So, in the liberal mind, someone can be “disqualified” because you don’t like the name of their blog?
I believe d's point was that anyone ignorant enough of history to embrace the America-hating terrorists who styled themselves the 'Confederacy' is likely to be equally ignorant about other areas of history. This appears to be true, at least in so far as the German saboteur incident is concerned.
Here's a little
history lesson:There is a world of difference between the military tribunal created in 1942 and the tribunals authorized by President Bush. After the capture of eight Germans who arrived on two submarines in June 1942, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued a proclamation to create a military tribunal to try the men. Roosevelt therefore targeted eight specific individuals.
The Bush military order covers a much larger universe: any individual who is "not a United States citizen" (about 18 million inside U.S. borders) who gave assistance to the September 11 terrorists. The president need only determine that there is "reason to believe" the person is or was a member of al Qaeda, "has engaged in, aided or abetted, or conspired to commit, acts of international terrorism," caused injury to U.S. national security, foreign policy, or the economy, or has "knowingly harbored" one of more individuals described in the Bush order. FDR looked backward at a handful of known saboteurs who had confessed. Bush looked prospectively to 18 million noncitizens and resident aliens who had yet to be apprehended or charged....
According to the Bush administration, whoever fits the category of enemy combatant is held but not charged, is denied the right to an attorney, and (according to the Justice Department) federal judges have no right to interfere with executive judgments.
Compare that to the eight German saboteurs, who were charged by the government, granted counsel, and tried by a military tribunal. They even filed a petition of habeas corpus in federal district court, eventually arguing their case before the Supreme Court over a two-day period, totaling nine hours of oral argument....
The 1942 process was badly crafted. Roosevelt created the tribunal, picked generals (subordinate to him) to serve on the tribunal, appointed the prosecutors and defense counsel (all subordinate to him), and when the tribunal completed its work, the trial record went to Roosevelt for final review. Stimson thought it made no sense for Attorney General Francis Biddle and Judge Advocate General Myron Cramer to serve as prosecutors. Why should an attorney general spend a month prosecuting eight saboteurs? Cramer should not have been co-prosecutor. His function was to perform a reviewing role to assure fairness.
For the two saboteurs who arrived in late 1944, Stimson succeeded in removing Biddle and Cramer as prosecutors. Trained military professionals handled the prosecution in early 1945. Stimson also saw that the trial took place not in Washington, D.C., with the circus atmosphere of 1942, but at Governors Island, New York City. Justice Felix Frankfurter, a member of the 1942 Court, later said that "the Quirin experience was not a happy precedent."
I hope this improves your understanding of the historical precedent you cite.
Posted by: Tom Hilton at September 27, 2006 10:37 AM (crtph)
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I understand the precedent I cited well enough, and find it humorous that you resort to an opinion piece to support your position. My cited facts stand, your interpretive submission I'll leave for the readers to judge on its merits.
I suggest you read a bit more on your hero FDR and Woodrow Wilson, both of which lied to the American public and censored news they didn't like far more than the Bush adminstration would ever dream of.
BTW, if there were "terrorists" in the American Civil War, the overwhelming majority of them wore Army of the Potomac blue, not Army of Northern Virgina Gray.
Lee invaded both Maryland and Pennsylvania with military objectives in mind, while Sherman's March to the Sea specifically targeted Southern civilians in a hundred mile wide swath.
Your definition of what constitutes a terrorist is, as always, murky and ever-changing.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 27, 2006 11:11 AM (g5Nba)
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I suppose by your historical methodology -- citing a 1942 Supreme Court case to carve out an exception to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, or alluding to the propaganda techniques of the CPI in 1917-1918 to deflect questions about the current American president -- one could argue on behalf of all sorts of insanity. But the issue here isn't about presidential lies, or the fiction of the "unlawful combatant" (a term that appears nowhere in the Geneva Conventions and is neither acknowledged nor endorsed by any of its signatories.) The issue here is your silly logic, abundantly displayed in your initial post and your last comment.
For example:
(A) Yglesias argues that the US has become a "rogue state";
(B) My brain cannot conceive a difference between "rogue" and "terrorist" states; ergo
(C) Yglesias argues that the US has become a "terrorist state"
Or:
(A) "d" believes the Bush administration tortures people;
(B) My brain tells me that only terrorists and other enemies of America torture people; ergo
(C) "d" doesn't give a damn about terrorists . . . and . . . and . . . AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO LOSE IN NOVEMBER!
But this is the real gem here:
As for “torture,” I don’t know of a single person who condones the practice, as effective as history has shown it to be in extracting information from those who have it.
If torture is soo bloody "effective," CY, why on earth would you deny your President -- whose job, he constantly reminds us, is to "protect the American people" -- this valuable tool in the war against Islamofascists who want to return us all to the 7th century? Why the squeamishness? Why resolve ourselves only to the use of "safe" techniques that make people "uncomfortable?"
Since you've clearly never actually read anything about the history of torture, and since your understanding of torture's "effectiveness" appears to have been gleaned from watching several seasons of
24, and since you've clearly plugged your ears to avoid hearing uncomfortable disclosures about US interrogation practices (as well as those used by countries like Egypt and Syria, to whom we've rendered prisoners for "tough questioning"), I'm not sure there's much more to be gained here.
But I will point out one last fleck of spittle that just issued from your mouth:
If I read your last comment correctly, you just suggested that Tom Hilton's definition of "terrorist" is "murky and ever-changing" while claiming (in virtually the same breath) that if anyone was guilty of "terrorism" during the Civil War, it was the uniformed, lawful combatants of the Union Army.
I'll let you get back to your fingerpainting now.
Posted by: d at September 27, 2006 11:59 AM (4K53w)
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I understand the precedent I cited well enough, and find it humorous that you resort to an opinion piece to support your position. My cited facts stand, your interpretive submission I'll leave for the readers to judge on its merits.
Nice try.
The point of posting those passages was to bring forward
factual content of which you appear to be ignorant (or which you choose to ignore). Pointing out that there is opinion in addition to the factual content does not make the facts go away. (The author, by the way, has written a
book specifically about the German saboteur incident. Whatever your opinion of his opinions, I assume you and I can stipulate that his factual assertions are solid.)
The facts cited make it pretty clear that a) the Bush tribunals go much further in scope than those constituted for the German saboteurs, b) the saboteurs had access to basic rights including access to attorneys and judicial review that are not available to Bush's detainees, c) they were all guilty (by their own confession), unlike the population of Guantanamo (where something like 2/3 of the original population were never involved in terrorist activities) or the speculative population of potential 'supporters' of terrorism, and d) it wasn't a particularly felicitous precedent in the first place (hence Frankfurter's comment; hence its relative disuse in the intervening decades, until Bush).
As for the Confederates, call them what you will--'terrorists', 'traitors', whatever--the fact remains that they took up arms against the lawful government of the United States. (In fact, it's worth pointing out that they, much more than al Qaeda, really did 'hate us for our freedom'; our freedom--that is, the freedom that existed in the Northern states--was their casus belli.) You cannot be a loyal American and, at the same time, glorify the treasonous anti-American scum who tried to destroy America; you can be loyal to one or the other, but you cannot be loyal to both.
Posted by: Tom Hilton at September 27, 2006 02:57 PM (crtph)
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The one mistake Sherman made was not killing more Confederates, people who broke the nation up in order to keep black people enslaved. If slavery is not terrorism, I'm not really sure what is.
Posted by: Erik at September 27, 2006 03:28 PM (Ph7WX)
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Just one more comment: I can't let your casual use of the word 'wartime' pass without objection. If 'wartime' justifies exceptions to Constitutional protections that apply in normal times, then 'wartime' has to be a very strictly defined thing; otherwise, any president could (as Bush is trying to do) simply unilaterally declare 'war' (on terrorists, on narcotraficantes, on domestic militias, on organized crime) and blithely suspend the most basic guarantees of personal liberty. If 'wartime' means anything at all, this is not wartime.
Posted by: Tom Hilton at September 27, 2006 03:43 PM (crtph)
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The applicable sections of the Geneva Conventions relevant to FDR's executions were carved out in 1929, not 1949. That is why the Supreme Court was able to comment on it during its decision in the 1942 case,
Ex Parte Quirin.
Rogue State (noun): "a Third World state that possesses weapons of mass destruction and sponsors terrorism."
By definition, a rouge state is a terrorist-sponsoring state and therefore a terrorist state. Perhaps Yglesias and the liberals that still continue to insist that calling the United States a rogue state is not equivalent to calling it a terrorist state should invest in a free online dictionary.
As for
24, I've not actually seen the show in question, but I know quite a bit about torture. Being a history buff, I've read about it as it has been practiced over the centuries in various cultures from the Middle Ages to the present, used as a means of extracting information, and as a means of producing intimidation and extracting revenge. Simply put,
torture works, however despicable as it may be.
It is because I understand real torture that I find liberal attempt to equate our intelligence gathering methods with those of real torturers as shrill and childish political stunts.
Making a man stand for hours on end or denying him sleep for several days, or giving him a sever chill or even waterboarding, where a person is tricked into feeling like he is drowning, does not even begin to equate with having his eyes plucked out, or his fingernails ripped out, or his skin peeled away, or being force to watch as his daughter and/or son are gang-raped in from of his eyes.
Regular prison inmates in the Cook County jail in Dick "Gulag" Durbin's home district suffer far worse abuse under Chicago prison guards than does a al Qaeda terrorist in the hands of our military of CIA.
As for calling one side or another terrorists in the Civil War, Hilton made the charge, not I. I merely stated the fact that if either side was guilty, the Northern "scorched earth" tactics against Southern civilians was far close to how one might define terrorism.
Terrorism is
defined as:
the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."
In his infamous "March to the Sea" as stated in wikipedia,
General Sherman:
...therefore applied the principles of scorched earth, ordering his troops to burn crops, kill livestock, consume supplies, and destroy civilian infrastructure along their path.
You decide if the definition fits. I do not personally hold that either side committed torture, but Sherman was far harder in his treatment of civilians than was Lee.
The amount of ignorance displayed here by liberals, equating the populations of 11 states, black and white (up to 65,000 African-Confederates served in the Confederate States Army), to terrorists, shows an ignorance and smug bigotry not easily cured.
And Tom, conflicts in two countries with over 140,000 soldiers deployed is not "war" by your definition?
Again, a dictionary is recommended.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 27, 2006 03:49 PM (g5Nba)
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Erik, in my more misanthropic moments (as, for example, in arguing with the Terror-Loving Yankee) I am tempted to think that the greatest tragedy of American history is that General Sherman did not have thermonuclear weapons.
I'm sure it's probably wrong to think that, though.
Posted by: Tom Hilton at September 27, 2006 03:50 PM (crtph)
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Erik, in my more misanthropic moments (as, for example, in arguing with the Terror-Loving Yankee) I am tempted to think that the greatest tragedy of American history is that General Sherman did not have thermonuclear weapons.
Thank you, Tom. It's about what I would expect.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 27, 2006 03:58 PM (g5Nba)
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Consider yourself banned for the genocidal hopes, BTW.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 27, 2006 04:01 PM (g5Nba)
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Hey, call what Sherman did what you want. The good guys won and the bad guys lost. The South deserved everything they got and more.
And anyone who waves a Confederate flag today should be tried for treason. It should be classified the same way the Nazi flag is in Germany. George Allen, Trent Lott, Saxby Chambliss, all anti-American traitors.
Posted by: Erik at September 27, 2006 04:58 PM (6qSna)
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I can't believe I'm still arguing with you over this. But why not?
It is because I understand real torture that I find liberal attempt to equate our intelligence gathering methods with those of real torturers as shrill and childish political stunts.
This is rich. Explain to me how it is that you "understand real torture." Being a "history buff," as you say, I'm sure you understand the difference between noting the factually obvious -- that torture
has been used in the past -- and claiming, on the other hand, that "torture works" as an instrument of policy. Even the Greeks understood that a rational man will lie during torture. This, as I'm sure you know -- being a "history buff" and all -- was why the Greeks only allowed slaves to be "put to the test." Slaves, after all, were judged to be irrational creatures, too stupid to deceive their interrogators.
But that was then, this is now. By every conceivable definition of torture -- and here you have to go beyond your online dictionary and actually read the relevant international and domestic law -- torture includes the very techniques that you claim are merely "intelligence gathering methods." Waterboarding is torture; hypothermia and hyperthermia are torture; sleep deprivation is torture. Only the Bush administration -- which defines torture as anything causing "organ failure," death, or permanent disability to "vital" human functions -- sees things differently. But as a "history buff," I'm sure you've read about all this already.
I suppose, on the other hand, that countries like Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, and now Iraq would perhaps share Bush's view of torture. They are, after all, using it quite handily on our behalf. Egypt, in fact, provided the Bush administration with valuable "intelligence" on al-Qaeda training bases in Iraq -- intelligence that was exctracted by torture from Ibn al-Shayk al-Libbi. It turns out, sadly enough, that the information was completely fabricated, but I'm sure the Egyptians had a whale of a time with Mr. al-Libbi.
If your riposte to all of this is an
Ace of Spades hieroglyph that unashamedly (and I'm sure prematurely) celebrates the Pakistani ISI, then I suppose we at least have some insight into where you believe the threshold for American conduct should lie.
Posted by: d at September 27, 2006 05:49 PM (muDqq)
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Ah, the old "65000 African-Americans fought for the Confederacy". A position that is held by zero reputable historians, that overstates actual black participation in Confederate Armies by about 65000, and that serves only to mildy assuage the consciences of white guys who really, really, really want to fool themselve into thinking that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. Kudos, CY.
Posted by: Rob at September 28, 2006 09:19 AM (LJ+uV)
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Rob, somehow I don't think Frederick Douglas would appreciate you calling him a liar. In 1861 speech meant to raise support for a black regiment in the Union army, Douglas noted that African-Confederates were
already serving the South.
It is now pretty well established, that there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may to destroy the Federal Government and build up that of the traitors and rebels. There were such soldiers at Manassas, and they are probably there still. There is a Negro in the army as well as in the fence, and our Government is likely to find it out before the war comes to an end. That the Negroes are numerous in the rebel army, and do for that army its heaviest work, is beyond question. They have been the chief laborers upon those temporary defences in which the rebels have been able to mow down our men. Negroes helped to build the batteries at Charleston. They relieve their gentlemanly and military masters from the stiffening drudgery of the camp, and devote them to the nimble and dexterous use of arms.
I think I find Douglas' contemporary observations just a little more credible than your modern-day revisionism.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 28, 2006 09:53 AM (g5Nba)
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Well CY, there is a difference between serving in the army and being forced at the point of a whip or gun to serve their Confederate masters. But leave it to you to read Douglass completely out of context in order to serve your despicable political purposes.
Posted by: Erik at September 28, 2006 12:46 PM (6qSna)
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Some African-Confederate soldiers were slaves, but many were free black southerners. The battle Douglas spoke of in particular, First Manassas, saw black militiamen operating Battry #2 of the Richmond Howitzers, and two black "regiments"--it is doubtful they were actually of regimental strength-- fought for the South in that battle. One was free one was comprised of slaves.
I invite anyone to read Douglas comments (they are linked above) and see if they come to the conclusion that you do that they were forced to serve at the point of a whip or a gun. Certainly nothing Douglas says reinforces that idea, which I suspect you made up entirely.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 28, 2006 01:01 PM (g5Nba)
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Oh, CY, could you please come and lecture for me when I talk about the Civil War? Your knowledge and historical analysis are so overwhelmingly amazing. I completely leave out the part about how blacks wanted to stay in slavery and how much their loved their masters, especially when they were being whipped or raped. Only someone with your clear view of the real history of the Civil War and slavery can really teach the truth.
Posted by: Erik at September 28, 2006 01:44 PM (6qSna)
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So Erik, you teach? That's a delightful thought.
I don't know how you are with your job, but here, you've made wild accusations without supporting them, you've made incorrect assumptions, and you've misrepresented what I've said and linked to, while providing no factual support for your own commentary.
I'm not sure what you teach, but I taught freshman composition on the collegiate level. Based upon what I've seen of your jumbled thoughts and mischaraceterizations here, you would not pass.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 28, 2006 02:12 PM (g5Nba)
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Yes, clearly I would not pass. Your academic judgment of me means a great deal.
When you come and teach for me, will you wear your full Klan garb?
Posted by: Erik at September 28, 2006 03:15 PM (6qSna)
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When pressed repeatedly for facts to support his commentary, Erik instead decides to go for a Klan reference. How intelligent, not to mention classy.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 28, 2006 03:36 PM (g5Nba)
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When confronted repeatedly with commenters who make him look (even more) like a stone fool, CY bans them. Way to stand strong!
Posted by: Matt at September 28, 2006 04:29 PM (ZS4Cu)
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I invite anyone to read Douglas comments . . .
The battle Douglas spoke of . . .
I think I find Douglas' contemporary observations just a little more credible . . .
I don't think Frederick Douglas would appreciate you calling him a liar.
Someone who claims to be a "history buff" should know how to spell Frederick Douglass' last name.
Posted by: d at September 29, 2006 12:05 PM (4K53w)
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Some Don't Forget
"Do you forget people jumping off the 80th floor or 70th floor when the planes hit them? Can you imagine what it will be for a man or woman to jump from that high?" Karzai asked recalling some of the more shocking scenes from the World Trade Center bombing. "How do we get rid of them? ... Should we wait for them to come and kill us again?"
Thus spoke Hamid Karzai, President of Afghanistan to the media assembled in the East Room of the White House in a joint press conference held with President George W. Bush this morning.
Sometimes, we do forget, or at least we want to.
It is far easier to try to forget, or try to pretend that it could never happen again, or pretend that it was somehow our fault, and that if we were just nicer or better or different in some little way, that that day wouldn't have occurred. It is a shame that man from half a world away had to visit our nation's capitol and remind some of us of what should be so obvious.
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Karzai also recently placed himself squarely in the crosshairs of the jihadis and mullahs by calling for the dismantling of the radical madrassas.
The man has some stones. More than most democrats.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 26, 2006 08:12 PM (ZVOjz)
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I'm glad he brought it to the Media so they can put it out on the news to let those that gave up caring/thinking about it time to reflect.
For me, it is burned into my brain and I still get the feelings that I had the day it happened.
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 27, 2006 05:02 AM (nFSnk)
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Steamed Rice: Condi Slaps Clinton Over Wallace Interview Comments
Bill Clinton's attempt at a face-saving, over-the-top response to Chris Wallace during an interview aired on Fox News Sunday has resulted in Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice responding, saying that much of what Clinton intoned was a
lie:
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice yesterday accused Bill Clinton of making "flatly false" claims that the Bush administration didn't lift a finger to stop terrorism before the 9/11 attacks.
Rice hammered Clinton, who leveled his charges in a contentious weekend interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News Channel, for his claims that the Bush administration "did not try" to kill Osama bin Laden in the eight months they controlled the White House before the Sept. 11 attacks.
"The notion somehow for eight months the Bush administration sat there and didn't do that is just flatly false - and I think the 9/11 commission understood that," Rice said during a wide-ranging meeting with Post editors and reporters.
"What we did in the eight months was at least as aggressive as what the Clinton administration did in the preceding years," Rice added.
The secretary of state also sharply disputed Clinton's claim that he "left a comprehensive anti-terror strategy" for the incoming Bush team during the presidential transition in 2001.
"We were not left a comprehensive strategy to fight al Qaeda," Rice responded during the hourlong session.
Her strong rebuttal was the Bush administration's first response to Clinton's headline-grabbing interview on Fox on Sunday in which he launched into an over-the-top defense of his handling of terrorism - wagging his finger in the air, leaning forward in his chair and getting red-faced, and even attacking Wallace for improper questioning.
I'm relatively sure that much of what the Bush Administration has done regarding terrorism in the months prior to 9/11 remains classified, and so it is difficult to say with any certainty what steps the Administration may have been taking. I would have hoped that among the first steps of the Administration on the subject after taking office would have been to start revamping the human intelligence effort that Clinton gutted in his eight years in office.
Why did Clinton gut American surveillance? Look to the Donkey:
In the past twenty years, there have been at least two high-profile incidents involving leaks. Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont was forced to resign from the Senate Intelligence Committee after being tied to a series of leaks in the 1980s. Congressman (later Senator) Robert Torricelli revealed secret information acquired by virtue of his position on the House Intelligence Committee. The information involved a source in Guatemala who had been allegedly been involved in a murder at the behest of then-girlfriend Bianca Jagger. The resulting scandal caused a Clinton Administration “human rights scrub” of human intelligence assets who had been alleged to have connections with criminals or terrorists. Of course, the “human rights scrub” placed the very people who would know about the activities of terrorists and other bad guys off limits to the CIA.
In short, Bill Clinton, embarrassed by Democrats leaking top secret information to the press, decided that instead of cracking down on Democrats, that the best thing to do was to sever the CIA's contact with the very people who would be in the best position to give us information about terrorist activity.
This of course, is the same Bill Clinton that invited terrorist leader Yasser Arafat to the White House on numerous occasions and refused to address Iraq's terrorist threat, even though three of the world's most famous terrorists prior to Osama bin Laden—Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, and the bomb-builder of the 1993 Word Trade Center attacks Abdul Rahman Yasin—lived as Saddam's guests in Baghdad.
The Clinton Adminstration also downplayed the fact that Yasin's bomb was built as a chemical weapon; an ammonium nitrate bomb laced with sodium cyanide. Yasin hoped that the bomb would disperse a cloud of poisonous cyanide smoke, killing thousands in the tower as it went up through the elevator and ventilation shafts. Fortunately, the cyanide was vaporized by the blast instead of dispersed in the smoke, and the tower was not undermined by the blast as he hoped. If Yasin had been successful in his 1993 attempt, the casualties of the 1993 Trade Center Attack would likely have far eclipsed the casualties of 9/11. The Clinton Administration responded by treating the treating the attack as a matter of criminal law instead of urgent national security.
The pattern continued.
20 were killed and 372 were injured in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing. The Clinton Administration did not respond. FBI Director Louis Freeh notes that neither Clinton nor Sandy "Pants" Berger wanted to deal with the fact that Iran was behind the attacks. In the remaining years of his Presidency, Clinton did precisely nothing to bring the bombers to justice. Frustrated by the Clinton Adminstration's inaction, Freeh finally contacted former President George H.W. Bush to move the case forward (my bold):
I had learned that he [former President Bush] was about to meet Crown Prince Abdullah on another matter. After fully briefing Mr. Bush on the impasse and faxing him the talking points that I had now been working on for over two years, he personally asked the crown prince to allow FBI agents to interview the detained bombers.
After his Saturday meeting with now-King Abdullah, Mr. Bush called me to say that he made the request, and that the Saudis would be calling me. A few hours later, Prince Bandar, then the Saudi ambassador to Washington, asked me to come out to McLean, Va., on Monday to see Crown Prince Abdullah. When I met him with Wyche Fowler, our Saudi ambassador, and FBI counterterrorism chief Dale Watson, the crown prince was holding my talking points. He told me Mr. Bush had made the request for the FBI, which he granted, and told Prince Bandar to instruct Nayef to arrange for FBI agents to interview the prisoners.
Several weeks later, agents interviewed the co-conspirators. For the first time since the 1996 attack, we obtained direct evidence of Iran's complicity. What Mr. Clinton failed to do for three years was accomplished in minutes by his predecessor.
The Clinton Administration's response? According to Freeh, they buried the evidence collected after a series of "damage control" meetings. It was only after Clinton exited office and President George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice got involved that charges were brought forth against the conspirators on June 21, 2001, five years after the attacks, and just four months after President Bush took office.
That pattern continued.
More than 200 were killed and more than 4,000 were wounded in simultaneous 1998 car bomb explosions on the U. S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. Clinton responded by firing cruise missiles at the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan and at nearly empty al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. Physical targets were destroyed, but only 20 terrorists were thought to have been killed, and Clinton Secretary of Defense William Cohen said that killing bin Laden, "not our design." Legally, a handful of terrorists were captured, tried, and convicted. Many more terrorists associated with the plot remained free.
Clinton's most robust response to terrorism was still ineffective.
Five months before Clinton left office, 17 sailors were killed and 39 were wounded when the U.S.S. Cole was hit by an al Qaeda suicide boat bomber while refueling in the Yemeni port of Aden. The rules of engagement prevented Cole guards from firing upon the approaching vessels without direct order from senior officers. According to Wikipedia:
Petty Officer Jennifer Kudrick said that if the sentries had fired on the suicide craft "we would have gotten in more trouble for shooting two foreigners than losing 17 American sailors."
Bill Clinton left office having never paid more than lip service to finding or destroying those behind the attack. On November 2, 2002, an armed Predator drone operated by the CIA killed Abu Ali al-Harithi and five other terrorists traveling with him in Yemen. The bombing's mastermind, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, was captured that same month and is currently being held by the United States at an undisclosed location.
Bill Clinton did next to nothing to attack al Qaeda in response to four terrorist attacks on the United States during his eight years in office. That he would feign outrage and falsify excuses for his inaction is to invite the criticism he so richly deserves.
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Don't forget that he was at the Wallace interview to promote his concern on global warming. Does global warming even exist?? Can we really do anything to alter it?? The money seems to be going to some organization, what is Clinton's kickback??
Posted by: David Caskey at September 26, 2006 10:40 AM (6wTpy)
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It's your fault.
No, it's your fault.
No, really, it's your fault.
Please. All this finger-pointing reminds me of some damn nursery school. Who's to blame for Oklahoma City? Maybe Cookie Monster's responsible for that.
There will always be terrorists, we're pouring fertilizer on them so they'll grow better, and who knows when some domestic wacko's gonna fill a truck with fertilizer.
I have no doubt that the Bush administration did what it could against al-Qaeda in the 8 short months he held office before that attack. Also I have no doubt that the Clinton administration did what it could do re same.
You are asking two American presidents, after the fact, to predict the future.
And, by the way, please pick a side. You're either a Confederate or a Yankee. The two are mutually exclusive. I should know, my farmhouse bordered Antietam battlefield. Where do you live, Oregon?
Posted by: anne johnson at September 26, 2006 01:44 PM (BvEoi)
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I follow this stuff as closely as anyone. I can't believe I either never heard or forgot about the cyanide thing from the 1993 bomb.
Posted by: Tony B at September 26, 2006 02:29 PM (K5/lB)
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September 25, 2006
Eats, Shoots Jihadis and Leaves
Another Jihadi leader
gets killed:
British forces said they killed a top terrorist leader Monday, identified by Iraqi officials as an al Qaeda leader who had escaped from a U.S. prison in Afghanistan and returned to Iraq.
Omar Farouq was killed in a pre-dawn raid by 250 British troops from the Princess of Wales Royal Regiment on his home in Basra, 340 miles southeast of Baghdad, British forces spokesman Maj. Charlie Burbridge said.
Farouq was killed after he opened fire on British soldiers entering his home, Burbridge said.
"We had information that a terrorist of considerable significance was hiding in Basra; as a result of that information we conducted an operation in an attempt to arrest him," Burbridge told The Associated Press by telephone from southern Iraq. "During the attempted arrest Omar Farouq was killed, which is regrettable because we wanted to arrest him."
I'll admit to being easily amused by this "eats, shoots and leaves" phrasing from above:
Omar Farouq was killed in a pre-dawn raid by 250 British troops...
Killed by 250 British soldiers, or killed during a raid conducted by 250 soldiers? The answer is obviously the latter, but the-less-than-perfect sentence construction creates a quick mental image of 250 British soldiers concurrently pouring lead into one hapless jihadi.
And yes, that's good for a smirk.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:28 PM
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image of 250 British soldiers concurrently pouring lead into one hapless jihadi
He got away once. They wanted to ensure that wouldn't happen again.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 25, 2006 05:10 PM (ZVOjz)
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Yea, it keeps the problems from occuring at GITMO.
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 26, 2006 04:57 AM (0EcTE)
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Clinton Spins
I had better things to do over the weekend that listen to Bill Clinton try to defend his record of inaction against al Qaeda, but Patterico took the time to show that once again, Bill Clinton is much more interested in imparting spin to
defend his miserable record than accept fault for his failures in defending America from Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network of terrorists.
Chris Wallace asked Bill Clinton a very simple, straightforward question of why he didn't do more to get bin Laden, and in response, Clinton accused Wallace of a "conservative hit job."
Mr. Clinton, asking you why you didn't do more is a legitimate question when thousands of people were injured and hundreds killed on attacks against U.S. targets in 1998 and 2000 while you were President.
You admitted you failed, Mr. Clinton. You should have stopped there.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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He must have inhaled before the interview.
Posted by: jay at September 25, 2006 09:18 AM (/63TG)
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How many very similar questions has Bush had to endure from the likes of Dick Gregory, Helen Thomas, et. al.?
For Clinton to "meltdown" and impugn Wallace's integrity and motives shows that he has far less class or character that Bush.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at September 25, 2006 12:28 PM (jHBWL)
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