November 14, 2006
Can't We All Just Get Along?
If you happen to be al Qaeda and Iran, the answer may be
yes:
Iran is trying to form an unholy alliance with al-Qa'eda by grooming a new generation of leaders to take over from Osama bin Laden, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.
Western intelligence officials say the Iranians are determined to take advantage of bin Laden's declining health to promote senior officials who are known to be friendly to Teheran.
[snip]
The Iranians want Saif al-Adel, a 46-year-old former colonel in Egypt's special forces, to be the organisation's number three.
Al-Adel was formerly bin Laden's head of security, and was named on the FBI's 22 most wanted list after September 11 for his alleged involvement in terror attacks against US targets in Somalia and Africa in the 1990s. He has been living in a Revolutionary Guard guest house in Teheran since fleeing from Afghanistan in late 2001.
Alarm over al-Qa'eda deepened yesterday with a Foreign Office warning that the group was determined to acquire the technology to carry out a nuclear attack on the West.
A senior Foreign Office official said that the terrorists were trawling the world for the materials and know-how to mount an attack using nuclear, chemical or biological weapons.
The Baker/SecDef nominee Gates Commission seems primed to tell us that they want to negotiate with Iran and Syria, currently the two leading state sponsors of Islamic terrorism, who in addition to supporting the insurgency in Iraq, are apparently also plotting a coup in Lebanon while rearming Hezbollah and Hamas. This new and as-yet unconfirmed report by the Telegraph now sees Iran trying to further engage al Qaeda to the point of hoping to influence its leadership.
Iran, a nation ruled by the apocalyptic Hojjatieh sect, is pursuing nuclear weapons, having already developed and/or purchased long-ranged missiles and MIRV warheads only used for delivering nuclear warheads.
al Qaeda, a major terrorist group that has already successfully struck inside the U.S once and failed on numerous other attempts, has been trying to acquire nuclear weapons since the 1990s. Is anyone on this smug commission watching where this is headed?
al Qaeda: "Hey, your nuclear weapons development got on my terrorism!"
Iran: "Your terrorism got on my nuclear weapons development!"
Both: "DEATH TO AMERICA!"
It's like a Reese's Peanutbutter Cup from Hell, and the Baker Commission is trying to tell the world that it is safe to swallow.
Sorry boys, but I'm not buying it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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It seems to me that this is the indication that we have lost the war. Much as we did with Vietnam and thanks to the politicians and MSM.
Posted by: David Caskey at November 14, 2006 12:38 PM (xxoPt)
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Crusade Over: Jesus Surrenders
The blogger that styles himself "Gen. JC Christian, patriot,"
surrendered intellectually early this morning, collapsing under the unbearable weight of his own ponderous
ad hominem argument.
Apparently his disaffected Finchiness is highly disturbed--perhaps even gob-smacked--at this post, where I replicated an email I sent to the President, asking him to commit fully to winning the war in Iraq.
The good General was apparently unable to logically explain why we should engage in the rapid retreat favored by so many on the far left. Trying to explain an anti-humanitarian position that would lead to a far wider civil war or even genocide is obviously too difficult a task for a cynical faux diety. Much better to trot out the "chickenhawk" meme again instead.
We all know that one by now, don't we?
Essentially, the argument is that anyone who favors military action should not be taken seriously unless they themselves are willing to go and join the military. But the messenger is not the message, dear General, and this tired dismissal falls apart miserably when poked with even the smallest twig of logic.
Do you really want to make the argument, General, that you cannot comment upon or have an opinion on any subject in which you aren't a paid professional?
That would certainly clear up much of the war-related controversy in the blogosphere and the media. Very few liberals have the professional background General Christian would require for commenting on war-related issues, including the good General himself. Only soldiers would be able to discuss the war, and they overwhelmingly support continuing the mission.
General Christian's post wasn't meant to be fair, just dismissive, and it should hardly be surprising that someone so intellectually lazy would be caught in his own poorly-constructed trap.
Update: As so many of my liberal "guests" can't seem to keep a civil tongue in their heads, comments are now closed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Please see this post by Glenn Greenwald which explains the difference between a civilian hawk and a chickenhawk: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/what-makes-someone-chicken-hawk.html
Posted by: moioci at November 14, 2006 02:32 AM (juIjC)
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There ought to be a Godwin's Law corollary that anyone referring to Glenn Greenwald for support loses immediately. Can't you make up a losing argument on your own?
Posted by: Lee at November 14, 2006 03:32 AM (G3kW7)
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Greenwald is kinda right about this. It's not necessarily cowardly to oppose a war, if there isn't a chance you'd be taking part in it in the first place. However, if you oppose the war on terror, it may mean you're afraid of the truth.
Posted by: Anonymous for now at November 14, 2006 04:37 AM (RMHg5)
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Lee: "There ought to be a Godwin's Law corollary that anyone referring to Glenn Greenwald for support loses immediately."
(nice demonstration of apparent ignorance of what Godwin's Law actually says, btw) There should not be such a rule, for the simple reason that ad hominem attack is no replacement for substantive criticism.
Anonymous, I'm curious as to what truth I may be afraid of. As far as I'm concerned, If you support the war on terror, it may mean you've been sold a bill of goods.
Posted by: moioci at November 14, 2006 04:47 AM (Jwpjg)
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moioci: The truth is that we can't co-exist with the Islamic world. It'd be nice if they abandoned the teachings of Qur'an, but that's not going to happen any time soon.
Posted by: Anonymous for now at November 14, 2006 05:08 AM (RMHg5)
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Essentially, the argument is that anyone who favors military action should not be taken seriously unless they themselves are willing to go and join the military. But the messenger is not the message…
-- CY
So… you're not willing to join the military?
How come?
Posted by: LGF at November 14, 2006 07:23 AM (5J8Ix)
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The goal of Operation Yellow Elephant is mathmatically
unworkable. We simply do not need everyone who supports the war over there. I estimated if we had every elligible man and woman over there who backed the war, we'd have 23 million troops on the ground.
Posted by: Adam Graham at November 14, 2006 08:44 AM (uJT9y)
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"Kevin Blackthorne" (posting as LGF),
I tired to send you an email, but it appears that you didn't bother to use a valid email address, so I'll post my response here instead.
* * *
Not that it matters, Kevin, but I intended to join the Marines after college as an officer, but after wrecking my knees bad enough to require surgery my sophomore year and having a significant amount of damaged cartilage removed, my hopes of joining this nation's military (or for that matter, even playing soccer again) were wrecked as well. Even when I went to a recruiter to join the New York Army National Guard (101 Cav, 1 Bn Co D, an M-1 Abrams tank unit located where I was living in Newburgh, New York) in the winter of 2004, the recruiter told me that getting an age waiver wouldn't be too hard, but getting over me knee problems was impossible, even with the slightly less stringent physical requirements of Guard and Reserve forces.
But that really doesn't matter, does it? The chickenhawk meme isn't about intellectual honesty or integrity, but is an attempt to silence those you disagree with using a specific kind of logical fallacy, the
Ad hominem tu quoque.
For the chickenhawk meme to be valid, that "only those who would serve in the military have any right to support the war," you would also have to believe in a "chickendove" meme, that those who did not actively oppose the war, by volunteering to be "human shields" or the equivalent, have also have lost their right to speak out against the war. Interestingly enough, that meme is rarely if ever supported by top moderate or conservative bloggers, except as used to mock the intellectual dishonesty of the chickenhawk meme as applied by our critics such as the good General and equivalents.
The chickenhawk meme is shallow, self-serving, and anti-democratic. As someone who appears to be intelligent enough to string a series of words together into a coherent sentence, I would hope you'd be able to figure that out on your own.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 14, 2006 09:18 AM (g5Nba)
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…you would also have to believe in a "chickendove" meme, that those who did not actively oppose the war, by volunteering to be "human shields" or the equivalent, have also have lost their right to speak out against the war.
Sorry to hear about your weak knees. You could always serve as a human shield for the troops, you know. As additional armor on a humvee, or an IED detonator in a Yugo, or a yellow helmeted sniper decoy, you wouldn't need much leg strength.
Posted by: LGF at November 14, 2006 09:46 AM (5J8Ix)
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Pretty convenient for you, those bad knees, eh CV? This war has left, and will continue to leave, corpses strewn all over the place, but yours won't be one of them, so what do you care?
I wonder what it's like to be so indifferent to the suffering and death of other people.
Posted by: Union Hillbilly at November 14, 2006 09:47 AM (62NkU)
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Is a Right-winger actually chastising someone for purportedly using an ad hominem attack? That makes the General's post even funnier. That commenter's in this post dismiss someone for siting an argument by Glenn Greenwald is a bonus chuckle. That's intellectual laziness.
The "chickenhawk meme" is not, as you state, "only those who would serve in the military have any right to support the war." It is why, if you are of able body, would you not support in actions and deeds that which you support with words?
I'm sorry you didn't have the opportunity to serve. As a member of the New York National Guard let me say we would have welcomed you. I think it would have been an eye opening experience for you, and may have changed your outlook on the world a bit.
P.S. No more of the Cut and Run meme, please, after making such a strong argument against it here, I wouldn't want anyone accusing you of intellectual dishonesty or intellectual laziness.
Posted by: Fred at November 14, 2006 10:06 AM (jSBbA)
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Ragging the warhawks with the chickenhawk label is perfectly appropriate because for decades the right has espoused the false premise that those without military service were unqualified or suspect with respect to determining matters of war and peace. (A position, among many, that would horrify the founders.)
Since 2004, having smeared a decorated war hero and lionized a draft-dodging AWOL airman, the right can no longer pursue that line.
Calling you out as chickenhawks is a delicious case of hoisting you on your own petard!
Posted by: Kit at November 14, 2006 10:12 AM (YcUKP)
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If they can't fight then our weak-kneed sisters can send fabulous e-mails to the commander-in-chief. This is the least they can do. You go girl!
Posted by: donniej at November 14, 2006 10:25 AM (LRZxO)
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>where I replicated an email I sent to the President
Brilliant use of replication! You go, YC! Tell JC to stuff it under his beret!
Posted by: numberfivepencil at November 14, 2006 10:31 AM (0AqCS)
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Hey Yank-
I've been reading you for a while, and I say hell yeah!
I read the post by the "JC" guy, and hey, is he serious? Did you enlist in the armed forces?
I say again, Sir - HELL YEAH! That is serious business there, pal. Congratualtions are certainly order, and if you're ever in my neck of the woods, the beers are on me. It's about time to shut these "yellow Elephant" commies up, by having our own quit the "talking", and get in and start FIRING AWAY at America's enemies.
Sorry, I'm too old, but I say to you young fellas, under the age of 40 - LET'S GO! FOLLOW THE YANK, into America's MILITARY FORCES!
Bless you Yank.
ANd God Speed.
D.
Posted by: D. at November 14, 2006 11:35 AM (s2c2z)
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CY, your knees may keep you from serving, but I don't think you should cheer yourself on for turning out a letter which urges the President to keep sending Americans to their death in a misbegotten and mismanaged war.
He can't make it work. You can't make it work. Bush senior can't make it work. The cost of not making it work is the suffering of hundreds of thousands of families here and in Iraq, and a failed state in sectarian turmoil.
The glorious 101st Fighting Keyboarders has rooted for a geopolitical disaster. At some time in the next six months, I expect the object of your idolatry to declare "victory" at the same time as he beats a hasty retreat, because his daddy and his daddy's buddies tell him to.
Dubya is so... over.
Posted by: Persistent Vegetarian at November 14, 2006 11:36 AM (2W6Xl)
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Underlying that chickenhawk meme is the age-old racist/elitist mentality, in which the well-fed, well-heeled, white college republican is content with the less privileged, less white doing battle for him.
Truly, Mr. Owens could still do his part as a civilian contractor in the region- I don't think driving a truck or serving chow requires good knees.
Further, opposition to the fiasco in Iraq does not equal some sort of terrorist appeasement or an objection, in principle, to the war on terror. On the contrary, it conveys a desire to fight terrorism shrewdly, competently, seriously. These false dichotomies that the neo-cons make their living on- the "with us/against us" or
"sycophant/evildoer", sound good but signify only the intellectual laziness of those who use them.
Iraq isn't the War on Terror. Powell's Pottery Barn rule still applies when your unattended, idiot child- or president- wrecks the joint playing Army. A redeployment of troops to the North, where they would stand on call, while the Sunnis and Shias worked it out for themselves, ready to intervene in the case of ethnic cleansing, is about as good as it's likely to get.
Posted by: raindogzilla at November 14, 2006 11:53 AM (UnpHM)
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If the War is the most important thing ever, if Western Civilization hangs in the balance, if the Armed Forces have to spend $$$millions on advertising to recruit the troops, if the Army is making quota by lowering standards (the percentage of those enlisting in the lowest mental categories CAT IIIB-IV is increasing), and if you believe this and are of age (up to 42, now) then why haven't you enlisted?
What "other priorities" could be more important?
Posted by: observer 5 at November 14, 2006 12:14 PM (Z/ze5)
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It isn't rational to require different qualifications for different sides of the same question. The mirror of the chickenhawk meme is that if you have no military service you don't have the qualifications to decide war is not necessary. Wouldn't you want a real doctor to tell you surgery is NOT necessary?
Read any of these "Why aren't YOU..." posts in the whiny voice of ten year old on the playground. These are not serious people.
Posted by: Lee at November 14, 2006 12:53 PM (G3kW7)
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The Chicken Hawk label perfectly fits some Iraq war supporters...doesn't fit other supporters...but it does fit some.
There are people for the war ...
And then there are people FOR THE WAR!
These are the people violently against anyone that disagrees with them. They often use pejoratives like "Libs" and "Dems" and if you disagree with them about the war they will tell you that you should leave America. "Some' of these people are Chickenhawks...at least the ones that could go and fight the war.
Of course besides the "Get out of the country" crowd there are the legacy Chickenhawks from Vietnam...many of the people that pushed us into Iraq, Bush, Chenney, Ashcroft, Limbaugh, Gingrich etc. All men that COULD have gone to Vietnam to fight in a war they supported but would NOT by choice. Again they are all for war when they or thier family will not pay a price.
(and don't even start with the Bush served crap...he didn't, his unit had other politician's sons and Pro-football players and everyone knew the deal was the unit was a haven from the draft...that's not even a question.) Bush's "Service" was in fact to AVOID war and serve himself...NOT to serve the country.
The last group for the Chickenhawk lable are many of the College Republicans that zealously support the war but will not serve. Funny that these guys want to call anti-war people "terrorist sympathizers" and "cowards' etc. yet get very upset when they get accuratly labled a Chickenhawk.
Considering what this war is doing to many American families, and what it's costing the US in borrowed money and international prestiege I think these young Conservatives can toughen up and take the label they so richly deserve.
So if the shoe fits wear it...if it doesn't shrug it off.
Bobo
Posted by: Bobo at November 14, 2006 02:30 PM (Yx9if)
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November 13, 2006
Another Chickenhawk Goes to War
Bill Arado-something-or-other has decided that he has to see the war for himself, and
went and got embedded.
If you could, drop the guy a coin or two, and please tell him that this is not the kind of body armor he needs, no matter what Ace may say.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Hey, that's the armor I bought! I believe it's rated "level .0000000001".
Thanks for the link.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 13, 2006 06:18 PM (J7M2/)
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The comments to "Of Sterner Stuff" - even the chance to write a comment - have been eliminated. Is that all you have to defend your position?
Posted by: he at November 13, 2006 07:11 PM (LMqPB)
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A Conservative Plan for Iraq
Anyone who questions the lack of a realistic and comprehensive Iraq strategy is labeled a friend of fascism by the Republican leadership. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) recently said, “I wonder if [Democrats] are more interested in protecting the terrorists than protecting the American people.” Republicans are paralyzed with the fear of being thought ineffective on national security and the war.
Meanwhile, the Democratic leadership cannot seem to accept that—regardless of how we got there—we are in Iraq. They have not made a convincing case that an arbitrary phased or date-certain troop withdrawal is in the best long-term interest of the United States. Rather, they seem to think that withdrawal will undo the decision to have gone to war. Rubbing President Bush’s nose in Iraq’s difficulties is also a priority.
This political food fight is stifling the desperately needed public discussion about a meaningful resolution to the fire fight. Most Americans know Iraq is going badly. And they know the best path lies somewhere between “stay the course” and “get out now”.
Some Truths
1) Iraq is having a civil war between the Sunnis and Shiites. The Kurds will certainly join, if attacked. It may not look like a civil war, because they donÂ’t have tanks, helicopters, and infantry; but they are fighting with what they have.
2) Vast oil revenues are a significant factor behind the fighting. Yes, there are religious and cultural differences—but concerns about how the oil revenue will be split among the three groups make the problem worse.
3) Most Iraqis support partitioning Iraq into Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish regions. (Their current arrangement resulted from a pen stroke during the British occupation, not some organic alignment.)
4) Most citizens of the Middle East who support groups that kill and terrorize civilians—such as Hezbollah, Hamas, or al Qaeda—in part because of their aggressive stance against Israel and the United States, but also because they provide much needed social services, such as building schools.
5) Both Republican and Democratic administrations have spent decades doing business with the tyrants who run the Middle East in exchange for oil and cheap labor. This has been the one of the rallying calls of Bin Laden and Hezbollah—that we support tyrants who abuse people for profits. In fact, our latest trade deals with Oman and Jordan actually promote child and slave labor; it’s so bad the State Department had to issue warnings about rampant child trafficking in those countries.
6) Iran is using the instability in Iraq to enhance its political stature in the region. Leaving Iraq without a government that can stand up to Iran would be very destabilizing to the region and the world.
From the U.S. perspective, this is all mostly about energy. As things stand, a serious oil supply disruption would devastate our economy, threaten our security, and jeopardize our ability to provide for our children.
New Directions
Success in Iraq and the Middle East in general requires us to work in three areas simultaneously: (1) fostering a more stable Middle East region, including Iraq, (2) pursuing alternative sources of oil, and (3) developing alternatives to oil. To these ends we must:
1) Insure that the oil revenues are fairly and transparently split among all three groups: Shiite, Sunni, and Kurds based on population.
2) Allow each group to have a much stronger role in self government by creating three virtually-autonomous regions. Forcing a united Iraq down their throats is not working. Our military would then be there in support a solution that people want, rather than one they are resisting.
3) Become a genuine force for positive change, thus denying extremist groups much of their leverage. Driving a fair two-state solution to the Israeli/Palestinian problem should be our first priority. We should also engage in projects that both help the average Middle Easterner and Americans, such as supporting schools that are an alternative to the ones that teach hate and recruit terrorists. We should also stop participating in trade deals that promote child and slave labor by insisting on deals that include livable wages and basic labor rights.
4) Declare a Marshal Plan to end our Middle Eastern energy dependency with a compromise between exploring for new sources, reducing consumption, and developing of alternative energies. For example, we should re-establish normal relations with Cuba so we can beat China to CubaÂ’s off-shore oil. We should also redirect existing tax breaks for Big Oil into loan guarantees for alternative energy companies.
Once we no longer need so much oil from the Middle East, we can begin winning over its people by using our oil purchases to reward positive and peaceful behavior from their leaders. This would ultimately reduce tensions and encourage prosperity in the region.
We will have to live with the threat of Islamic radical terrorism forever; but these solutions are a start to reducing the threat. Both parties have to put politics aside and put together an honest and reasonable plan that the American understand.
Posted by: John Konop at November 13, 2006 07:45 PM (LuO/f)
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Sinking The Admiral
Matt Drudge has a typically bombastic headline running, CHINA SUB STALKS USS KITTY HAWK, which links to a Bill Gertz article in today's Washington Times that is only slightly less dramatic:
A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.
The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing's communist-ruled military.
The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries.
Disclosure of the incident comes as Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet, is making his first visit to China. The four-star admiral was scheduled to meet senior Chinese military leaders during the weeklong visit, which began over the weekend.
According to the defense officials, the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the carrier Oct. 26.
The surfaced submarine was spotted by a routine surveillance flight by one of the carrier group's planes.
The Kitty Hawk battle group includes an attack submarine and anti-submarine helicopters that are charged with protecting the warships from submarine attack.
According to the officials, the submarine is equipped with Russian-made wake-homing torpedoes and anti-ship cruise missiles.
The Kitty Hawk and several other warships were deployed in ocean waters near Okinawa at the time, as part of a routine fall deployment program. The officials said Chinese submarines rarely have operated in deep water far from Chinese shores or shadowed U.S. vessels.
A Pacific Command spokesman declined to comment on the incident, saying details were classified. Pentagon spokesmen also declined to comment.
If you're looking for me to debunk this story I'm sorry to disappoint you. I simply can't, other than to quibble over the details.
A submarine that tops out at 22 knots cannot overtake or as Gertz states, "stalk" a carrier battle group that cruises somewhere between 27-32 knots. What the Chinese can do is plot a course for the battle group, and place a submarine in position in advance of it, and wait for the battle group to steam to that location, as did the German U-boat wolfpacks of World War II.
The Song was likely vectored into position by PLAN (the People's Liberation Army Navy... I know, don't ask), and waited under minimal electric power until the American battle group closed in on their position. It was an ambush, not a stalking, and considering the stealth of this breed of diesel/electrics, it is possible that if the battle group was unprepared, it could run into such an ambush, despite my earlier thoughts to the contrary left on Hot Air's post on the subject.
No, the story here is not necessarily the apparent Chinese success in a cat and mouse game that has been playing out between submarines and surface ships for decades, but the fact that this story was leaked to Gertz, and that it was leaked now. Gertz himself provides the reason for the leak:
The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries.
Disclosure of the incident comes as Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet, is making his first visit to China. The four-star admiral was scheduled to meet senior Chinese military leaders during the weeklong visit, which began over the weekend.
Move over New York Times. The Old Gray Lady may lead in publishing information that hurts U.S. interests, but the Department of Defense has been known to selectively leak on occasion, and this leak seems to have the military exchange program with the Chinese clearly in the crosshairs.
The exchange program, which dates to 2002 is said to be extremely one-sided. Chinese military officers and technicians have been invited to see U.S. military exercises and "sensitive" facilities, and China has refused to reciprocate. In addition, Admiral Fallon has restricted U.S efforts to conduct intelligence-gathering operations against China, leading us to be even more in the dark than we should be.
The Song-class submarine may have targeted Admiral Fallon's carrier group, but by leaking the story to Bill Gertz when they did, it is clearly the intention of the Department of Defense to sink Fallon and a program that they consider to be a risk to national security.
Damn the torpedoes. There's a dangerous admiral to be sunk.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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When I first read this when Drudge had it, that was the first thing I thought. This wasn't about the sub, it was about this apparent treasonous maniac Fallon.
I wonder if we weren't pinging actively either -- save the whales and all that...
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 13, 2006 09:02 PM (l8HpH)
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Good. That guy's a prick.
Trust me, I worked for him--- one of the ships he's in charge of, anyway, and you would not believe how people-stupid that guy and/or the folks he works are.
Posted by: Sailorette at November 14, 2006 03:54 AM (42oGy)
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Of Sterner Stuff
The following letter was emailed to President George W. Bush at the White House this morning, asking him to rededicate America to winning the War on Terror.
Send your own comments to the President via email comments@whitehouse.gov, over the telephone at 202-456-1111, or via fax at 202-456-2461.
Dear President Bush,
"These are the times that try menÂ’s souls."
So Thomas Paine began a series of pamphlets in late 1776 called The American Crisis, and in which he continued, "The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot may, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
All around you lies a nation demoralized, yet not yet defeated, waiting upon your steadying hand to find a solution to the problems of modern-day Mesopotamia.
Shia, Sunni, and Kurd slaughter each other along with our soldiers in what seems to be an unending campaign of bloodshed. This war is meant to sap the spirit and soul of not just one country, but legions of the faithful of many languages and creeds, across national and international borders.
Indeed, many in this land have lost hope in the noble ideas that founded this nation, and now clamor for a retreat to our own shores from those who would strike at us here as they have in the past. These well-meaning but misguided souls seek for no more blood to be spilled, for no more lives to be lost in a brutal, grinding war that sees our national will and our thirst for peace and justice challenged.
But we are made of sterner stuff, and what they do not understand is what you must know in your heart to be true, and that is simply this; there can be no peace in this war or this world without victory.
We live in a time where cynicism lords over self-sacrifice, where absent a call to rise above the mundane, the backbenchers and the critics are given voice by the simple absence of dedicated call to duty.
Early on in this great campaign you spoke to and for all of us when you said, "Great tragedy has come to us, and we are meeting it with the best that is in our country, with courage and concern for others because this is America. This is who we are."
Our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have heard your call, and answered to it magnificently.
Yet it seems in this dark hour that many Americans have forgotten who we are and what God set us upon this Earth to do. I firmly believe that you, a man of great Christian faith and conviction, were elected not to serve just the United States, but GodÂ’s will in spreading to the dark corners of the world both hope and freedom. It is for these two things that American and Iraqi soldiers rise every morning in a struggle that sometimes seems insurmountable, against a foe both wicked and depraved.
We must succeed, Mr. President.
It is my heartfelt conviction that God put us upon this Earth to strike out against those who would subjugate, oppress and terrorize those who should be free into an uneasy silence. This silence that will only be broken by further explosions and cries from the wounded and dying if we chose this time and this date to retreat. A retreat from Iraq, however it is phrased, is a victory for the forces of Islamic terrorism.
We must draw that "line in the sand, " here, and now, from which will not retreat.
I ask you to do what only you can, and that is to commit American totally to victory in Iraq. History has shown us that wars are not won with half measures, but with an overwhelming commitment of both manpower and conviction.
I beseech you to commit our reserves to the fight in Iraq, as many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of soldiers that the mission requires, in order to break the will and the bodies of those who fight for chaos and tyranny.
There have been many who have called Iraq "another Vietnam," but what they do not realize is that Iraq can be a Vietnam for the forces of terrorism for which they cannot withdraw without a resounding defeat. They have committed their all—their ideology, their material, and their manpower—to driving our alliance with the common man and woman in Iraq asunder. We must not fail them, or else, we will fail ourselves.
Should those who fight for freedom yield to those who fight for chaos, oppression, and tyranny? I say, emphatically, that the answer to all terrorists of every stripe must be "No."
Mr. President, I ask that you rededicate yourself and our nation to winning the war against terrorism currently being waged in Iraq. We fight not just for their freedoms, but our own.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Bob Owens
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
The guy doesn't even read news papers...you expect him to read this?
Posted by: Fred at November 13, 2006 01:13 PM (jSBbA)
2
Maybe if you sent it in graphic format (ie a comic) the Prez might be able to respond...
Posted by: Ashley at November 13, 2006 03:17 PM (hX6TT)
3
The guy doesn't even read news papers...you expect him to read this?
Maybe if you sent it in graphic format (ie a comic) the Prez might be able to respond...
There's only one language Reid, Pelosi and the rest of that gang are capable of reading - that would be the language of Chamberlain -"Appeasement" -
Good Luck Dems!
Posted by: Me at November 13, 2006 03:53 PM (2KcnN)
4
"All around you lies a nation demoralized, yet not yet defeated, waiting upon your steadying hand to find a solution to the problems ..."
- Why are you waiting for the same hand that has guided you into this mess? - The hand that was only too willing to act according to the interests of the neocons, Halliburton & Co (not of your nation!)? Don't you remember how arrogant and ignorant the Bush-Administration was in 2002, when they were warned not to invade Iraque? (Cf. the foreign ministers of Germany and France told them exactly what would happen (Re-read the speeches!) - and it happened: Not "Mission accomplished", but a new playing-field and a boost for terrorism! - But at least you gave those whimps what for: You now eat "Freedom Fries", don't you?)
"This war is meant to sap the spirit and soul of not just one country, but legions of the faithful of many languages and creeds, across national and international borders."
- How true, how true! But it is not only the terror - it is the way this war was started and the way it is being fought. Where is the sympathy we all felt for America after 9/11? - Lied away by the Bush, Rumsfeld, ... - tortured away in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, and dozens of secret CIA-prisons all over the world - riddled by American firepower.
"... many Americans have forgotten who we are and what God set us upon this Earth to do. ... you (GWB!) ... were elected not to serve just the United States, but GodÂ’s will ..."
Outstanding, magnificent arrogance and blasphemy!
He
Posted by: he at November 13, 2006 04:12 PM (E2nyV)
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November 12, 2006
Gates Nomination a Recipe for Disaster
Says the
American Thinker (via
Instapundit):
The Baker commission seems to be doing a lot more than just re-thinking Iraq. It appears to be copiously leaking a Vietnam-type cut-and-run plan that will leave the Gulf far more dangerous than it is now. The Vietnam model looks like a “face-saving” retreat by the United States—just like that one that left Vietnam a Stalinist prison state with tens of thousands of boat people fleeing and dying, and next door in Cambodia, two or three million dead at the hands of Pol Pot.
BakerÂ’s press leaks seem designed to test public reaction to the cut-and-run plan.
President Bush's nominee to replace Don Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense is Robert Gates, a survivor of the Iran-Contra scandal who helped draft the Baker cut-and-run strategy.
Let's be very clear on who Robert Gates is; he is part of the problem, a leftover of the failed policies of realpolitik that helped create modern terrorism. His return to public service is a recipe for losing no just in Iraq, but in the larger War on Terror. He has as much business being Secretary of Defense as Harriet Miers had being on the Supreme Court.
Norman Podhoretz captured the failures of the Baker/Gates generation quite clearly as they led the run from terrorism in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations:
In April 1983, Hizbullah—an Islamic terrorist organization nourished by Iran and Syria—sent a suicide bomber to explode his truck in front of the American embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. Sixty-three employees, among them the Middle East CIA director, were killed and another 120 wounded. But Reagan sat still.
Six months later, in October 1983, another Hizbullah suicide bomber blew up an American barracks in the Beirut airport, killing 241 U.S. Marines in their sleep and wounding another 81. This time Reagan signed off on plans for a retaliatory blow, but he then allowed his Secretary of Defense, Caspar Weinberger, to cancel it (because it might damage our relations with the Arab world, of which Weinberger was always tenderly solicitous). Shortly thereafter, the President pulled the Marines out of Lebanon.
Having cut and run in Lebanon in October, Reagan again remained passive in December, when the American embassy in Kuwait was bombed. Nor did he hit back when, hard upon the withdrawal of the American Marines from Beirut, the CIA station chief there, William Buckley, was kidnapped by Hizbullah and then murdered. Buckley was the fourth American to be kidnapped in Beirut, and many more suffered the same fate between 1982 and 1992 (though not all died or were killed in captivity).
These kidnappings were apparently what led Reagan, who had sworn that he would never negotiate with terrorists, to make an unacknowledged deal with Iran, involving the trading of arms for hostages. But whereas the Iranians were paid off handsomely in the coin of nearly 1,500 antitank missiles (some of them sent at our request through Israel), all we got in exchange were three American hostages—not to mention the disruptive and damaging Iran-contra scandal.
In September 1984, six months after the murder of Buckley, the U.S. embassy annex near Beirut was hit by yet another truck bomb (also traced to Hizbullah). Again Reagan sat still.
What realpolitik accomplished under Reagan was to build the confidence of terrorists. This same "do nothing" approach was continued under the first Bush Administration, thanks once again to political strategies favored both then and now by men like James Baker and Secretary-designate Robert Gates.
Robert Gates had a hand--never firmly proven, but never really in doubt--in the disasterous plan to attempt to negotiate with terrorism in Iran-Contra.
He also was part of the brainrust, err, braintrust, that urged Iraqi Shia to rebel again Saddam Hussein, only to stand by and watch when as many as 100,000 Shia were killed when they failed to support the rebellion they instigated in 1991.
Robert Gates has no business being the Secretary of Defense during a war on terrorism. He did far too much to help create the current problem to be relied upon to fix it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Hizbullah and Isreal are mad.
Ian Pundit thinks he's a Mossaid agent.
Posted by: Doh at November 12, 2006 03:15 PM (DXyrz)
2
right on" gates is a scowcrftian baker-brzeshinski status quoitst, and he deserves to be voted DOWN.
rice isd a MAJOR disapopointment too. SHE SHE RESIGN.
i'd like to see Bolton at State, and Tommy Franks at Defense.
and I'd like us to elect a REAL consrevative and a real hawk in 2008, and notr another wimpy dove like George W Bush.
Posted by: reliapundit at November 12, 2006 03:26 PM (8JsCh)
Posted by: reliapundit at November 12, 2006 03:28 PM (8JsCh)
4
>>Norman Podhoretz captured the failures of the Baker/Gates generation quite clearly as they led the run from terrorism in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations."
Poddy usually requires a little translation from the original Likud patois, but his message is alway the same: kill the Arabs.
Posted by: skip at November 12, 2006 04:48 PM (JxU2K)
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This is no time to start pointing fingers.
Posted by: Charles Edward Frith at November 12, 2006 05:35 PM (fuc2r)
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As if Bush the Younger had advanced us against the terrorists. Is he going to tell us about the secret plan to end the war that was put out before the election?
Sadly, since we got our asses in this mess without a plan to get out, we may have to beat a hasty retreat like in Vietnam. The neo-cons who got us in have hit a wall in Iraq and aren't getting anywhere there. Does anybody have a plan that stands a chance in hell of working? By not setting a time table for withdrawl Bush is defacto staying the course to complete failure.
Posted by: jwberrie at November 12, 2006 05:45 PM (5HYWF)
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With the fumbling, bumbling press conference the day after the election and the firing of Rumsfeld, I am getting a vision of Helicopters on the roof of the Al Rashid Hotel. I fear the next two years will be nothing but one investigation after accusation and another investigation.
And the troops once again will take the brunt of the hit. It is a shame that a country like ours is not allowed to win a war...And Rumsfeld is going to be Indicted for War Crimes ? What kind of sickness has infected this country ? What in the hell are we suppose to do with these captured terrorists, give them a kiss and a pat on the ass and send them on their way. So they can attack some other American target ?
Posted by: MarkT at November 12, 2006 08:25 PM (YadGF)
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I'll not Skip that you have to result to ad-hominem attacks and can't refute Pod.
Considering that Argentina finally charged Khamenei (you know, the "moderate") with killing 300 Argentinian Jews in the 94 bombings along with Hezbollah and the Iranian intelligence service, the Likud position that negotiating with Muslims is folly because as Ahmadinejad says, "we will kill Jews everywhere" has a lot of sense.
What do you propose to do in order to forestall Iranian nukes going off in US cities?
Hezbollah gives them deniability and they've used it to kill Americans in the past [Freeh charged Clinton, Sandy Burglar, and Albright with obstructing his Khobar Towers investigation because they were afraid of having to do something about Hezbollah/Iran]
How do you propose to deter Iran from nuking us if we run away from Iraq? How can we SHOW them the folly of attacking us when they've openly vowed to "blow up the White House?"
Posted by: Jim Rockford at November 12, 2006 08:41 PM (4878o)
9
After all that was sacrificed and all the hope that was fostered, these establishment appeasment monkeys have a plan for national disgrace.
Sometimes I just want to shake their damned teeth loose. Would that help them listen to reason?
The next several weeks will foretell the election of '08; if enough disgust is shown because of the donks and enough anger is uncovered because of the trunks' ineptness, there is a chance for Constituitional leadership. If the donks get their hands around border security and make the all the moms feel safe and sound with socialized health care, it's another Dole For President (McCain) debacle and Hillary in '08.
With that we see the end. Law by judicial fiat, governmental power overstepping private rights, GNP decline, interest rate increases, etc.
Stop them before they hurt us some more.
Dan Patterson
Arrogant Infidel
Posted by: Dan Patterson at November 12, 2006 08:52 PM (GWOjN)
10
My
initial hit on Gates is the same as Pod and others: the ISG is a bad place to be in.
That said, I
reviewed his part in a gabfest last year and his statements are at extreme odds with the ISG. If he does NOT explicitly say something along the lines: 'I appreciate the work of the ISG. Respectfully, I disagree.' then he will have problems coming across as his 'own man' and not a stand in for Baker and the Elder Bush.
I have trouble squaring the ISG position of Syria and Iran as *wanting a stabile Iraq* and this from Mr. Gates: "Robert Gates: I think an Iraqi government secure enough to invite us to leave we can count as a victory. My concern is that we have so little patience. We're so accustomed to watching television and we get irritated if it's a two-part series."
And then later:"We all hope that it will be quick. That in a year or two the -- this government in Iraq will be secure enough that they will be able to invite us to leave and we can do so, leaving behind us a government that can survive and that will be very different from what preceded it.
Iraq is one of the oldest countries in the world, that in its thousands of years of history never known democracy.
We're irritated because the Russians haven't figured out democracy in 15 years. There are still all these problems going on in Russia, a country that in its thousand years of history has never known democracy.
We're still working on it after 300 years."
He later states that he personally believes *any* talks with North Korea will fail...
So, what exactly is going on with this? I can no longer say that he is a pawn of the ISG, but he also does have that past to deal with.
If he will stick by his pronouncements, divorce himself from the ISG publicly, then I am willing to give him the benefit of ONE doubt.
Some of the rest of his foreign policy stuff I do not like, but that is Condi's realm, not his. He must clearly state that he is there to do the job of ensuring the strength of the Armed Forces, enacting the President's policy and NO ONE ELSES. And for all his Beirut problems, he *does* know that you cannot get terrorists 'the old fashioned way' having tried and failed. The INTEL component has been the #1 disconnect for the past 30 years between the CIA and the DoD, if not longer. John Negroponte is having a hard time getting the Agency off the dime, and an old leader in a New role coming to them and saying:'Get with the program and prove you are worth what we are paying you.' could do a world of good.
Coming in with Bush Family Rolodex Syndrome is not good, nor is being in the ISG. I notice the ISG does *not* put out 'minority reports'. How very Cold War, lock-step of them. And it is the Cold War and most of the 20th century thinking that now has to be jettisoned. I don't know if any of the Administration are finally ready to do that... but I am willing to let Mr. Gates have his say and demonstrate that he is no one's pawn and he is there because of his *ability* and that he has learned from his *mistakes*.
That can only come from him and not the tea leaves.
Posted by: ajacksonian at November 12, 2006 10:03 PM (VLjJI)
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Would somebody please explain to me what it will look like if the United States "wins the war in Iraq?"
We knew what it would look like if we won World War II: the Germans and the Japanese would surrender. They did; the war was over.
Assuming we stay the course, what, precisely, will the end of that course look like?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at November 12, 2006 10:56 PM (BUxjn)
12
Assuming we stay the course, what, precisely, will the end of that course look like?
Turkey
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 13, 2006 12:23 AM (l8HpH)
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Doc Washboard:
That's the elephant in the room. Polls show that a majority of Iraqis distrust democracy and favor an Islamic government. The Shiites and Sunnis are blowing up eachother's mosques, torturing eachother with drills, and executing eachother with death squads. The Kurds simply want autonomy. It's unfair to ask our troops to solve this problem; there is no military solution.
Posted by: Earl at November 13, 2006 12:51 AM (ZI/Tg)
14
Well shucks, Earl, when they poll the Terrorists and democrats what else would be the results.
For people who don't want democracy I wonder why so many Iraqi people showed up to vote, in 3 elections, almost 70 percent of the population. So I guess it means that the Iraqis really want to be subjugated and hearded like sheep and then led away to a firing squad as Saddam was wont to do. So freedom for all people is not what the donks is all about but rather subjecting people to the status quo as long as total appeasement takes place and the United States is blamed for all the evil in the world, then the donk agenda is fulfilled.
The democrats couldn't get that many votes if they included all the cemetaries in the country were included.
On Drudge, he has repoeted that the donks want to start pulling out troops as soon as six months. Their NOT cut and run strategy, is to cut and run, afterall, NOW there is a real surprise, and the bloodbath that will follow will make Pol Pot(Dickie Durbin's favorite leader) look like a fairy tale.
Posted by: Mark at November 13, 2006 11:28 AM (YadGF)
15
It's unfair to ask our troops to solve this problem; there is no military solution.
In a country of ~25M, there's only ~10,000-20,000 hardcore bad guys, and you can't see what the solution is? Damn.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 13, 2006 11:56 AM (l8HpH)
16
Purple Avenger:
Battling 20,000 guys mixed in 25 million is a policing operation, not a military one. Our troops are trained in combat, not so much policing and intelligence. Every time they humiliate or accidentally kill somebody, there are several relatives who are pushed that much more to take up arms against our troops. Our troop death rate has stayed steady, so there's no evidence we are reducing the number of the enemy.
Mark:
These guys started the war because of WMD, which turned out completely wrong, then they didn't take responsibility for that, instead they pretended like nation building was what they set out to do from the beginning. I regard nation building as a bunch of crap, and that, like balancing the budget, was one of the things I used to prize about the Republican party.
Then the administration thought they were *done* in 2003. One of the architects, Wolfowitz, said "there's no history of ethnic strife in Iraq." Now you guys are saying it was a war on terrorism all along. But Iraq used was a secular nation, and the terrorists are religious zealots. Oops.
The majority of Iraqis in several polls have said they want the Americans to leave. The majority said they distrust American style democracy, and the fact that 70% of the people voted does not disprove that, as you imply. I didn't say they wanted to be subjugated, you are putting words in my mouth. I won't speak for them. My point was that nation building is always claptrap, but in this case it is especially laughable. Similarly, you are jumping to conclusions saying that Dems don't want freedom for everyone (I'm in Independent by the way). The traditional Republican principle is that we should take care of our own first, and nation building is mushy liberalism. There never has been a democracy formed at the barrel of a gun. So what people want and what is doable are separate issues.
Bush obviously was determined to depose Saddam, but had absolutely no plan or clue about how to take care of the country after he broke it. They expected to be greeted with roses, and were completely surprised and uprepared by the insurgency and looting. Disbanding the army alone cost the lives of many of our troops.
As for a bloodbath if we leave: there's a bloodbath now. At least if we have a timetable, we'll know that we gave it our best shot: you have X months to solidify your police force, X months to set up your government, etc. How else are they to be expected to stand up? Otherwise it's too easy to continue depending on our troops to do their job for them. How long do you suppose the government could depend on our troops? Years and years. It's too easy for them, they've got to be made to stand up, not just told.
Posted by: Earl at November 13, 2006 12:59 PM (ZI/Tg)
17
Battling 20,000 guys mixed in 25 million is a policing operation, not a military one.
Go down to your local PD and tell'em you know where a boobytrapped stash of RPG's and C4 is.
Get back to us on how fast they punt to a military EOD unit. I'll wait for your response.
Battling characters like this is EXACTLY what Delta, Seal 6, and host of others have trained for. If you think our military isn't capable of performing intel ops, you are woefully misinformed.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 13, 2006 01:58 PM (l8HpH)
18
We have been neo-conned.
Once again our brave forces try to complete a mission when no one, including the CoC, can explain what the mission really is.
Now we cannot search for a kidnapped trooper because the terrorist/death-squad leader al-Sadr cut a deal to order our troops out of his fiefdom.
If we are not willing to kill the enemy we should pack up and come home, so we don't fill body bags for years to come.
Posted by: save_the_rustbelt at November 13, 2006 02:39 PM (D5MGw)
19
Dhimmicretin motto: "Cut, run, and defund."
Vietnamization all over again.
BTW, when was the term WMD redefined to be "stockpiles of nuclear bombs"? When I was a CBR NCO sarin qualified.
Posted by: RRRoark at November 13, 2006 03:10 PM (8u3Sz)
20
RRRoark:
David Kay, the man Bush charged to search for WMD, said "We were all wrong about WMD", and he also said that the 500 shells of nerve gas they found were old and less dangerous than stuff under your kitchen sink. Google it if you don't believe me.
It's a pity we didn't win Nam, what with the one country after another falling to the communists like dominoes, right?
Why don't you try leaving clown world every now and then.
Posted by: EArl at November 13, 2006 04:12 PM (ZI/Tg)
21
Purple Avenger,
"Battling characters like this is EXACTLY what Delta, Seal 6, and host of others have trained for."
This is *partially* true, the elites are trained in counterinsurgency as well as combat. But the kicker is, what percentage of our troops in Iraq are elite forces?
The average serviceman is trained specifically for combat, not manning checkpoints. This is exactly what hobbled the Israeli army in Lebanon: their troops have been focused on policing, and have lost their edge in conventional combat.
Posted by: Earl at November 13, 2006 04:19 PM (ZI/Tg)
22
150,000 US troops with the best military equipment money can buy (and some it can't) battling 10,000-20,000 hardcore bad guys with rudimentary arms should've been short and sweet. Fact is, this is a fight the US cannot win short of a full-scale reoccupation of Iraq, kow-towing to the "evil" regimes of Iran and Syria, and abandoning the neo-con dreams of remaking the Middle East.
Alternatively the US can betray the Iraqis as it has done before, leaving them to die in their hundreds of thousands after provoking a civil war. After all the Kurds have less than fond memories of US promises of support in 1991.
Either way, the world's sole super power will only have succeeded in proving it's impotence. That is the true legacy of George W. Bush.
Posted by: Gathara at November 14, 2006 07:05 AM (Di3Mi)
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The First (Beheading?) Cut is the Deepest
The Jawa Report is
breaking news:
The Jawa Report has obtained evidence that Yusuf Islam, the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens, was once connected to radical clerics Omar Bakri Mohammed & Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman. According to at least one credible source, he was also involved in terrorist financing.
If the Jawas are correct, the hippie that sang "Peace Train" was doing fundraisers for organizations linked to al Qaeda.
Yusuf Islam is supposed to release another albm this month called "An Other Cup," including a cover of a tune called "Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood."
There's a joke in there somewhere.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Iran Fakes Drone Carrier Footage (Update: Or Not)
I just saw a short clip on Fox News where the Iranian government showed grainy, near-overhead footage of a U.S. aircraft carrier, and claimed this was evidence that an Iranian drone was able penetrate U.S. fleet radar and air cover, a story also covered by
Breitbart.com.
Um... no.
Iran actually made this claim once before back in August (in the video clip above), going as far as say that their drone repeatedly circled the USS Ronald Reagan before it was even noticed, and that the U.S. attempted to shoot down the drone, but failed. Iran, or course, had zero evidence to support that claim.
But the apparent proof that Iran's latest "drone" video is fake may be contained in the footage itself.
The grainy footage shows what is undoubtably the angled deck of a U.S. aircraft carrier, but on that carrier deck are aircraft, including what appears to be a different fighter on the port waist of the deck than the F/A-18s, EA-6s, and E-2Cs one would currently expect on modern U.S. carriers. Could those planes be F-14 Tomcats?
The Iranian's imply their video was taken during military exercises in the past week. The F-14 Tomcat was retired in February. If Iran means to imply that this video was taken during their war games of the past week and the video released does indeed show retired aircraft, it would suggest that Iran was lying.
But Iran wouldn't lie, would they?
Update: Russian news sites are disputing the authenticy of the video.
They should. Expecting that a drone could penetrate the nine ship-mounted radars of a Nimitz-class supercarrier, plus the AWACS radar on the E-2C Hawkeyes it has aloft at all times, plus AEGIS-equipped ships in the carrier group, plus the radar of aircraft flying close air support, and be able to then circle directly above the carrier at an altitude of at least several thousand feet and return in one piece is something that, quite frankly, only an idiot would believe.
Mmmmm... Crow: Not F-14s on the port waist, but almost as large F/A-18Cs, ans clearly shown in this much better video. The angled rudders are a dead giveaway. In other words, the video is not necessarily old footage, though whether or not the U.S. knew of the drone is still up in the air.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Correct you are; more lies from the Iranian leaders.
Setting aside the fact that this "unmanned plane" would have to penetrate about 3-4 different layers of the world's most secure radar coverage (AEGIS alone makes that highly unlikely), and setting aside the obvious problems with the F-14's on deck (the last carrier Tomcat cruise ended in June) ... just listen to the what the Iranian commander claims:
"[The vessel's] commander ordered all the planes to be removed from the deck of the aircraft carrier." --- this is almost laughable b/c it is so wrong.
If you maybe didn't know, moving that many aircraft requires a HELL OF A LOT OF EFFORT as well as A HELL OF A LOT OF TIME.
There are only two possible reasons why would want to hide your aircraft:
1) you don't want pictures taken of them,
2) you are afraid they will be destroyed/damaged.
1) A drone instantly takes pictures, so there'd be no point to moving them AFTER it is detected ... If that isn't enough to convince you, check out www.navy.mil and see how many pictures of US aircraft you can find; these aren't secret aircraft.
2) Considering the amount of time required to store these below deck, no senior officer would try to protect his aircraft this way ... In fact, LAUNCHING them would make more sense -
a) they could be vectored toward the unidentified aircraft and
b) moving targets would be much harder to hit
I just hope no one believes this propaganda. The sad thing is the Iranian people largely don't like their government and are actually quite receptive to the US ... this is just a bunch of hardliners trying to prove they're tough to their Arab neighbors.
Remember: there will always be those who don't like the guy with the bigger house, nicer car, and hotter wife - regardless of how nice he is ... it's called jealousy, and it's a deadly sin.
Posted by: Dan at November 12, 2006 04:12 PM (0Nf4x)
2
The sad thing is the Iranian people largely don't like their government and are actually quite receptive to the US ...
Not really. You Americans like to tell yourselves that, but mostly, the rest of the world thinks you're all fat and stupid.
...with good reason, of course. Still, your child-like approach to geopolitics is awfully charming.
Posted by: The Rest of the World at November 12, 2006 04:22 PM (Gg/qt)
3
I believe the two aircraft on the waist catapults are either S-3 Viking ASW planes or EA-6B Prowlers. The Hawkeye on catapult 1 is unmistakable. Many of the aircraft on the forward part of the flight deck are F/A 18s; I can't tell what the aircraft parked aft are because the quality of the video still is so bad.
What gets me thinking this footage is phony is the absence of a ready alert. With tensions with Iran so high, I'd expect the Persian Gulf is considered a potential-combat zone. A Nimitz-class carrier has four catapults. On this carrier, Catapult Two is obstructed by parked planes, and out of the other three, one has a Hawkeye spotted, and two have Prowlers. There don't appear to be any fighters ready to launch. No ready alert in a potential-combat zone?
Posted by: wolfwalker at November 12, 2006 05:27 PM (ksb+f)
4
Longer video
here.
Looks like a training mission to me....
Posted by: Eagle1 at November 12, 2006 10:35 PM (uZyVy)
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So what have you established? That Iranians can provide fake multimedia presentations as well as Colin Powell could?
Posted by: pastor maker at November 12, 2006 10:44 PM (3EDQx)
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Tell us,
pastor maker - or should that be
pasture muffin maker - where do
YOU have clear evidence that Colin Powell provided
fake multimedia presentations?
Another blow hard troll in our midst?
Posted by: Retired Spy at November 13, 2006 08:17 AM (Xw2ki)
7
I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but some points:
-The ship in the photo is clearly a Nimitz class.
-Reports saying it was the Reagan are clearly wrong since she was most recently reported off SoCal conducting Carquals:
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=40320
-The Eisenhower is the last Nimitz class in the vicinity, and she was in the Red Sea on Nov 3:
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=40544
CY, in your photo here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/confederateyankee/296010180/in/photostream/
...I will opine those are in fact Super Hornets and not F-14s. Tomcats alwys appear as a shrp "traingle" when spotted on deck and the "Rhino" tail feathers are evident in the above photo.
On a side note, on the first day of the Marine landing in lebanon in August 1982 the Israelis had a drone airborne over the port. I was aboard the DDG which had the job of maintaining the air picture. Not unitl I saw a cover of a photo taken from that UAV some months later -it had a date/time stamp which showed I was on watch when it was taken- that any of us were aware it was ever there...
Posted by: sid at November 13, 2006 10:52 AM (cAFEP)
8
Fixed for clarity. It was an AvWeek cover I saw the photo on...
On a side note, on the first day of the Marine landing in lebanon in August 1982 the Israelis had a drone airborne over the port. I was aboard the DDG which had the job of maintaining the air picture. Not unitl I saw an Aviation Week cover of a photo taken from that UAV some months later -it had a date/time stamp which showed I was on watch when it was taken- that any of us were aware it was ever there...
Posted by: sid at November 13, 2006 11:13 AM (cAFEP)
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A complete video is available here:
http://video dot google dot com/videogvp/IraniandronespingUSa.gvp?docid=-324294841727623684
Some observations:
1. The hull number which is prominently painted on the forward flight deck of American carriers is not visible anywhere in this video.
2. In the upper right corner of the full frame is a much smaller frame. This looks like it might be a magnified image of a portion of the main frame.
3. Later in the video, and aircraft can be clearly seen launching from one of the waist catapults.
4. Aircraft can be observed in flight in the near vicinity of the carrier.
5. A surface warship is visible in the video but not identifiable because of the extremely poor resolution.
We need someone familiar with, ideally actively involved in, modern carrier operations to evaluate this video. It may be someones home movie, or an official video of an exercise.
I doubt that the video is from an Iranian drone, although I do not have sufficient technical knowledge to assert claims about how good our radar coverage is. Can Aegis detect a wooden drone hacked together from model airplane parts?
The question is then where did the Iranians get the video?
Posted by: Earl at November 13, 2006 03:53 PM (Fg/Pu)
10
Regarding my comment above, your site will not accept a comment containing a google address for some strange reason so the URL above has the periods replaced with the word " dot ".
Posted by: Earl at November 13, 2006 03:56 PM (Fg/Pu)
11
After watching the video, I say its legit.
I'd say its recent too since no S-3s are aboard and Super Hornets are.
The deck is spotted with an alert package and they are in the process of launching it.
Now, whether or not the UAV had been spotted for some period before, is another question entirely...
Posted by: sid at November 13, 2006 08:16 PM (4sRQo)
12
Watched the video some more and I am even more convinced its likely real.
Again, that is NOT to say that the presence of the drone went undetected by the USN or that it really represents a truly viable threat (but it IS worrisome no matter what in that is shows where they are headed with such capabilities).
Assuming it is in fact video from an Iranian UAV some real quetions arise:
How was it controlled?
Likely wasn't autonomous given the moving target.
How was it navigated overhead the carrier?
Was the video linked back or taped?
(note the EMI patterns in the video)
As of Nov 7th, the Eisenhower is in the Gulf...
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=40642
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=40713
The carrier is turning into the wind in preparation for launch. Checkout the wave pattern for a sense of the surface winds.
The ship is spotted in a typical "alert" configuration. There are two sections of F-18s on the waist cats and an E-2 forward.
Contrary to your assertion CY, I will opine that she had no aircraft aloft (other than maybe helos). Carriers don't have aircraft aloft ALL the time.
The surface ship seen very briefly is a Ticonderoga class CG. Real good probabilities it is the Anzio which is deployed with the Eisenhower...
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=40684
The deck numbers are painted on much more ghostly than they used to be. Checkout this picture again...
http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=40544
Also note there are no S-3s are present on deck. They are being retired and CVWs are deploying now without them. The carrier in the Iranian video has no S-3s on deck either. My bet its the Ike in that video.
Some things to remember. The carrier is there in part to protect Freedom of Navigation. Since this purported encounter took part in international waters (or most likely did given how the carrier is maneuvering), then the Iranian UAV had every right to be there.
And if it was determined to not represent hostile intent than there would be little reason to react in any significant way to it.
Indeed, there would be every reason NOT to....
One last rub though. Pilotless vehicles tooling about makes airspace deconfliction a real issue.
Now what if it had been at night and the drone wondered into the vicinity of marshall and there was a midair?
That nightmare scenario would make the pooh hit the rotating blades in a BIG way!
Somebody had best be thinking of an adjunct to IncSea agreements that covers UAVs....
Posted by: sid at November 13, 2006 10:13 PM (4sRQo)
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>do YOU have clear evidence that Colin Powell provided fake multimedia presentations?
Well, there's this. Nothing in it that is at all specutaltive panned out. Read it yourself. Curveball, aluminum tubes, UAVs, Mobile Production Facilities for Biological Agensts, AQ No. 3 s, and much more. The main rhetorical points in favor of occupying Iraq are brief but generally still true:
>Nothing points more clearly to Saddam Hussein's dangerous intentions and the threat he poses to all of us than his calculated cruelty to his own citizens and to his neighbors. Clearly, Saddam Hussein and his regime will stop at nothing until something stops him.
>For more than 20 years, by word and by deed, Saddam Hussein has pursued his ambition to dominate Iraq and the broader Middle East using the only means he knows: intimidation, coercion and annihilation of all those who might stand in his way. For Saddam Hussein, possession of the world's most deadly weapons is the ultimate trump card, the one he must hold to fulfill his ambition.
>We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. Given Saddam Hussein's history of aggression, given what we know of his grandiose plans, given what we know of his terrorist associations, and given his determination to exact revenge on those who oppose him, should we take the risk that he will not someday use these weapons at a time and a place and in a manner of his choosing, at a time when the world is in a much weaker position to respond?
>The United States will not and cannot run that risk for the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11 world.
>My colleagues, over three months ago, this Council recognized that Iraq continued to pose a threat to international peace and security, and that Iraq had been and remained in material breach of its disarmament obligations.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2003/iraq-030205-powell-un-17300pf.htm
A good troll would have an opinon about the authenticity of the carrier video but I don't know Iranian video from Youtube.
Posted by: numberfourpencil at November 14, 2006 12:56 AM (EvDxo)
14
Beyond all the other issues discussed already, the Iranian video looks as if it were taken with a hand-held camera. The panning and zooming is typical of an excited amateur videographer. Each shot has the jiggling and response times of a direct human operator. These kind of motions and response times just don't happen in a system dependent on robotic motions and lagging man/machine feedback times. It would take an extraordinary useless effort to build a drone to imitate both the good and the bad behaviors in this video.
Posted by: photoman at November 14, 2006 12:21 PM (2kF+C)
15
If you look in the right bottom corner during parts of the video you will see a black, possibly curved, object come on camera.
While it could be a multitude of things, the first thing that popped into my head was the curved corners of passenger aircraft windows. It seems possible to me that, as Photoman said, this was filmed by a person in a conventional aircraft flying over the gulf, or anywhere else for that matter. Don't know if its true or not but it is food for thought.
Posted by: Endyr at November 15, 2006 03:05 AM (r11uJ)
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November 10, 2006
Veteran's Day With Doolittle's Raiders
Michelle Malkin interviews some the surviving Doolittle Raiders and
Hornet crewmen over at
Hot Air.
Background on the Raiders here, and here.
A special thanks to these brave veterans, the other 25 million surviving veterans of past wars, and the millions of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines that served before them to to ensure our freedoms.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Originally this was known as Armistice Day marking the end of the first world war, the 11 hour the 11 day of the 11 month. The name was changed to Veterans' Day by Act of Congress on May 24, 1954. In October of that year, President Eisenhower called on all citizens to observe the day by remembering the sacrifices of all those who fought so gallantly, and through rededication to the task of promoting an enduring peace. The President referred to the change of name to Veterans' Day in honor of the servicemen of all America's wars.
However, to some of us Today means a little bit more November 10, is the United States Marine Corps Birthday..Happy Birthday Marines.
Today is Birthday number 231
Posted by: MarkT at November 10, 2006 04:14 PM (YadGF)
2
The Senrinels
You ancient, rusty relics- if you
could only tell
Your history and your legends, of
the battles and the hell.
You lie silent on those beaches,
where you formed a battle line,
Now decaying hulks of rusting steel
from a different place and time.
Ghostly figures man your turrets,
though the surf's the only sound.
Aye, your guns are long since si-
lenced, while the ground swells
rage and pound.
I close my eyes and visualize those
beachheads long ago,
When young Marines were fighting
through that surf and undertow
All too many never made it and, like
you, they shall remain
Silent sentinels at your turrets, while
the hourglass drops its grain.
Time, to you , is unimportant; You're
a monument to the past,,,
But your presence is a waning, if
again the die is cast.
Let no tyrant, King or ruler ever tam-
per with our land,
Lest you start your rusty engines,
and your gunners rise and stand.
May you never be forgotten; May the
old vets spread your fame,
For your colors still fly boldly, and
Old Glory still her name.
Carl Dearborn.
Posted by: Mark at November 11, 2006 08:11 AM (YadGF)
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Roll-Your-Own Terrorists: Fish and Chips Edition
The British people may not have any interest in fighting Islamic terrorism, but Islamists certainly have an interest in
fighting them:
British authorities are tracking almost 30 terrorist plots involving 1,600 individuals, the head of Britain's MI5 spy agency said, adding that many of the suspects are homegrown British terrorists plotting homicide attacks.
In a speech released by her agency Friday, Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller said MI5 had foiled five major plots since the July 2005 transit bomb attacks in London.
Speaking to a small audience of academics in London on Thursday, Manningham-Buller said officials were "aware of numerous plots to kill people and to damage our economy."
"What do I mean by numerous? Five? Ten?" she said. "No, nearer 30 that we currently know of."
She said MI5 and the police were tackling 200 cells involving more than 1,600 individuals who were "actively engaged in plotting or facilitating terrorist acts here and overseas."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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"The British people may not have any interest in fighting Islamic terrorism"
I think you're confusing the Britih media with the British people here, not the same thing.
Unfortunately the British media is crippled by Liberalism. They project the false impression that this Islamic threat must somehow be our fault and that it is "us" that must change if we are to placate the terrorists.
Let me tell you that is not the view of the 99.9% of people that I come across, and being a cabbie I get to talk to quite a few people.
The consensus is that these people must be crushed and if innocents get caught up in the crushing then that is just unfortunate. Pressure is beginning to be applied to our impotent political parties, and if they are unwilling or unable to sort out this shit then if fear there will be blood on the streets.
Posted by: Glynn at November 13, 2006 10:25 AM (lvJwM)
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November 09, 2006
Bill Maher's Sex Slaves
It seems that liberal comedian pundit Bill Maher (if you've never heard of him don't feel bad; the comedian label is something of a misnomer) intends to play "the outing game" according to an interview he did with Larry King on CNN. His targets, as you may well expect, will be prominent Republicans he feels might be gay.
The liberals at the Huffington Post and always acrid John Aravosis of AmericaBlog are absolutely livid that Maher's naming of RNC Chair Ken Mehlman was edited out of later rebroadcasts of the King interview.
For those on the "tolerant" left, it seems that being gay and Republican--or for that matter, almost any minority and a Republican-- is a sin of the first order. Punishment for this "sin" is the practice of being "outed," whereby liberals that hate prominent Republicans for their policy differences also pronounce them gay in a public forum, whereby other liberals can join in and share in hating them for the compounded sin of being gay and Republican.
In this worldview practiced by too many liberals, one's views on social security reform, healthcare, taxes, defense matters, foreign policy, trade, the death penalty, abortion, religion, etc, are all superceded by which gender you are attracted to.
What this means for homosexuals according to liberals, is that even though you might favor small government, low taxes, a strong military, an aggressive foreign policy, closing the borders to illegal aliens, free trade and 90% of the planks on the Republican platform, you are a traitor if you aren't liberal. If you are gay, goes their logic, you must, by their decree, be liberal.
If not, you'll face such lovely, constructive, adult perspectives such as these culled from the HuffPo comment thread:
Out the gay bastards who undermine their own lives by working for the GOP....
Gay Republicans are guilty of self-loathing and by serving a party that's harmful them they feel relieved of their guilt. Maschochists.
The great sin, in their warped perspective, is that of hypocrisy.
But what people that hold to a slate of political ideas that are conservative across the board, and happen to be gay? Should they suborn the larger part of their belief system to their libido just to appease someone else's radical politics?
I'd say making someone a social and political slave to their sexual attractions is the greater hypocrisy, but what do I know.
I'm one of those intolerant conservatives.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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"Should they suborn the larger part of their belief system to their libido just to appease someone else's radical politics?"
Suborn their beliefs to their "libido"?
Are you kidding? Do you really think that being gay is simply a matter of "libido"?
Man, and here I thought that the idea that all wingers were homophobic was simply a stereotype. Guess I was wrong.
Posted by: mklutra at November 09, 2006 05:38 PM (ASUDI)
2
Do you really think that being gay is simply a matter of "libido"?
Well, I've only had a dozen or so gay friends in the course of my life and that
did seem to be the most obvious difference between us. I didn't see any extra limbs, or anything.
Please, explain why the should abandon all of their other beliefs based just upon their sexuality. Your position that someone should be liberal because they are gay is every bit as retarded as saying hetrosexuals
must be conservative, or that bisexuals
must be--oh, I don't know--libertarian?
That's it! Glenn Reynolds must be bisexual because he's libertarian. If he's straight... OH THE HYPOCRISY!!!
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 09, 2006 06:15 PM (HcgFD)
3
It's all so simple for you folks, isn't it? It all comes down to which gender you are attracted to.
Let me ask you this: Do you think it is possible for a gay person to love his or her family as much as a straight person does? Do you think it might be possible that a gay person might want to protect his or her family just like a straight person does? Do you think that gay people should enjoy the same protection from job discrimination that straight people enjoy? Should gay people be allowed to include their families in their health insurance the same way that straight people do? Should a gay person be allowed to visit his or her partner in the hospital and make medical decisions for them when they themselves are unable to do so, like straight people do?
In short, do you believe that gay people should have the same rights and privileges as straight people? Should they enjoy equal protection under the laws of our nation?
It's a lot more complicated than "libido." Somehow, though, I'm not surprised that you believe it isn't.
Posted by: Len at November 09, 2006 06:20 PM (HwpS0)
4
Strange how the Left pushes so hard for the right to privacy, and then will ignore it completely when they think it is in their favor to do so. Welcome to the
Authoritarian Neighborhood of Mr. Rogers, where privacy is what he thinks it is on matters sexual. So nice of them to determine THAT for other people now, isn't it? They can spare me anything on the NSA after those wonderful goings-on, lately, where committed ideologues decided to play judge,jury and executioner on just what is and is not private not just for Congresscritters but for non-partisan staff that serves the Government, not either party.
But then I do see the rights of individuals as being for ALL individuals, without respect to party, religion, sexual persuasion or carbonated beverage preference.
Posted by: ajacksonian at November 09, 2006 07:36 PM (VLjJI)
5
Len,
As
every. single. thing. you just described is common to almost all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, you've proven my point. Thank you.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at November 09, 2006 08:11 PM (HcgFD)
6
I used to not mind gay marriage, but now I would vote against it because the left gay mafia is vile.
This is what happens when you create a backlash, places like Wisconsin pass marriage initiatives. In an election that favored Dems, most states protected marriage. You catch more flies with honey, not hatred and belittling the American people.
Too bad, the gay leftist crowd set back gay marriage by decades with their stupid stunts.
Posted by: Stormy70 at November 09, 2006 08:41 PM (7WJsV)
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Yankee: Wait a minute. You think that gays already have all those things I asked you about? Wow. What world do you live in? I only ask because I think I might want to visit sometime.
As for proving your point, I'd really appreciate it if you'd explain to me how I did that. Your point was that being gay is nothing more than choosing with whom you want to have sex. An ignorant view at best, and definitely not one that I would "prove."
Posted by: Len at November 09, 2006 08:47 PM (HwpS0)
8
Concerns? Civil rights are now
concerns? Equal rights and equal protection under the law for all Americans has now been diminished to a
concern?
Wow.
Thank the heavens for
concerned people.
Posted by: Len at November 09, 2006 09:23 PM (ThYc0)
9
Gays have a choice in their mode of lifestyle, as all people do. You can act like Stalinists or act like you live in a Republic and advocate for your position using reason and persuasion. Instead, we get the gay Republican witch hunt with cries of homophope to anyone who wants to protect marriage from unelected judges. Connecticut was a fine example of legislating civil unions. No hue and cry from the electorate because the correct people were making the law.
Gay conservatives exist in and out of the closet. Yet, they have no freedom to choose their lifestyle, since the left considers them fair game. Until you treat gay Republicans with respect, I will consider your arguments hollow. You want allegience to your political beliefs, not true gay rights.
Posted by: Stormy70 at November 09, 2006 10:23 PM (7WJsV)
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You are all retarded. It doesn't matter what the motivation of either side is. You don't edit out a comment on a news channel to pretend it never happened. And to edit it out of the written transcripts is an absolute travesty?
If you want to stop speech you don't like convince the person speaking it they are wrong. To pretend it was never said is a disservice to everyone and goes against everything this country was founded on.
Get a set of journalistic principles you retarded hyenas.
Posted by: JC at November 10, 2006 01:54 AM (qj7dd)
11
You don't edit out a comment on a news channel to pretend it never happened.
Why did they edit it?
Because they were EMBARRASSED?
Why are you so defensive?
Some questions answer themselves.
Posted by: lonetown at November 10, 2006 06:04 AM (KdCoY)
12
The media is a private business, they can edit out whatever the hell they want.
When I need to know how to snort coke off a barely legal teen hooker, I will look to Mayer. Otherwise, he is just a hedonistic drug addict.
Posted by: Stormy70 at November 10, 2006 07:28 AM (7WJsV)
13
Well I propose you DO edit it out if it is a rumourous accusation that could expose your company to a libel suit. I mean CNN is a private company, not like you can claim 'censorship' or some crap.
Posted by: Buddy at November 10, 2006 08:56 AM (aGQVo)
14
anyone see American Dad last Sunday? If you can find it online, it's quite relevant (and pretty damn funny).
Posted by: ez at November 10, 2006 09:37 AM (8xTQ/)
15
A clip...
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/american%20dad/video/xm8f2_american-dadgay-republican
Posted by: ez at November 10, 2006 09:42 AM (8xTQ/)
16
I am having a considerable amount of difficulty following the arguments and reasoning that have been presented so far. The difference in the groups is clearly implied in their respective names with the division being sexual in nature. I think the conservatives have issues with homosexuals as they are demanding law to be passed and judges to create laws that make them an exclusive group. If you do that then you will and should be descriminated against.
As to the list of things that gay couples can and can't do. That is bull. If a gay couple wants to marry they can do so. It is called a contract. The only difference with heteros is that the contract is mandated by the state to protect women and children. As to not seeing people in the hospital, thank your local Democrat and his passage of the HIPPA laws. On the insurance, I can't get coverage without a job as it is and I am a physician.
Republican gays represent those individuals that have finally awakened to the fact they do not care to give all their money to the government and become socialist (unless they also realize Lincoln was gay as well).
Posted by: David Caskey at November 10, 2006 12:21 PM (xxoPt)
17
Civil rights are now concerns?
What else might they be? Please be specific.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 10, 2006 01:37 PM (VUHCq)
18
Maher's distasteful conduct is a logical extension of identity politics. While straight people can be doctors, lawyers, parents, teachers, construction workers, etc., gays are always first and foremost gays -- people defined, not by their accomplishments, but by their bedroom activities. Everything is secondary to their sexuality. The same holds true for those whose primary identification is their own skin color.
No wonder those on the Left, deeply invested in identity politics, consider it treasonous for people to try to escape the bedroom or the racial ghetto, or whatever overarching label has been attached to them. They've suddenly ceased to be malleable and easily identifiable, and have become thoughtful people reacting to a variety of different issues in their lives.
Posted by: Bookworm at November 10, 2006 04:58 PM (izGwW)
Posted by: directorblue at November 10, 2006 07:38 PM (z1M8l)
20
As a radical Libertarian, I find myself torn on this issue.
On one hand, 'outing' is, in all its forms, a cheap political manuever and a complete subversion of personal privacy.
Furthermore, I hate deterministic politics. Being gay doesn't mean one has to accept the liberal agenda, anymore than being a a white protestant male means one has to accept the conservative agenda. I applaud gay conservatives on the grounds that this country desperately needs more unique people.
But what is neglected here is the obvious fact that the republican party RUNS on gay hatred. Santorum thinks they are sub-human. Alan Keyes disowned his lesbian daughter. Cheney denies his daughter the pursuit of happiness. You can call this a big tent party all you want, but it doesnt make their core any less intolerant.
When blacks are ostracized by the left for being Republican, its disgraceful, because republicans don't campaign on black hatred. But when gay people are ostracized for being republican, I think it is somewhat more justified.
Personally, I think dignity matters. Were I a gay person, I would not trade my dignity for tax cuts. Doesn't mean I don't support tax cuts, just that it should take a back seat for a while.
Again, there is valid points on both sides.
Posted by: Neal M at November 11, 2006 01:11 AM (jW6g0)
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Cheney never denied his daughter, she ran his campaigns.
Gays overreached, and suffered the backlash for it. I don't feel sorry for them. The left ran the gay outing campaign and destroyed any sympathy I ever had for their plight. Much like the Palestinians, sometimes you deserve what you set in motion. They should have never gone after the tradition of marriage, but advocated for civil unions through the elected representatives. Since I am in Texas, I mostly know the conservative gay crowd, not the libertine pinko gay mafia. I had no problems with civil unions, now I am sick of the derisive campaign ran by the left against anyone with differing political views. I will vote against anything that would make those people happy.
Posted by: Stormy70 at November 11, 2006 11:52 AM (7WJsV)
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I didnt say Cheney denied his daughter.
I said he, like every person opposed to gay marriage, does not believe in the pursuit of happiness, a right only this country guarentees. And you clearly do not either, since you admit to basing your votes on denying people happiness. What an American! Bravo, sir, Bravo!
No conservative has ever articulated for me how two gays getting married in Massachusetts actually harms a strait married couple in Alabama. Until they do Im tarring them as freedom-hating fascists.
Posted by: Neal M at November 11, 2006 03:54 PM (jW6g0)
23
No gay has advocated why marriage must be put in place by judges, instead of going through the lawful process. Now gays will have to overcome actual constitutional bans voted on by the people, instead of going for civil unions. Even gay leadership has stated this was the wrong way of going about gay marriage.
Nice dig at my Americanism, though. Right out of the Left's playbook. I thought the left hated it when people questioned their Americanism. I am not the one who chose the judicial fiat route.
Posted by: Stormy70 at November 12, 2006 08:36 AM (7WJsV)
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Neal M.,
Perhaps if all of the "married" gays would stay in Massacusetts it wouldn't harm a straight married couple in Alabama. The problem is that states are compelled to recognize marriages performed in other states.
I therefore propose that all gays who wish to be "married" move to Massachusetts.
Posted by: noprisoners at November 13, 2006 06:43 PM (zGtjs)
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Iraqi Health Minister Claims Insurgents Have Killed 150,000
Interesting.
Iraq's Health Minister Ali al-Shemari said about 150,000 Iraqis have been killed by insurgents since the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion.
For every person killed about three have been wounded in violence since the war started in March 2003, al-Shemari told reporters during a visit to Vienna. He did not explain how he arrived at the figure, which is three times most other estimates.
The health minister, a senior Shiite official linked to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, also said the United States should hand Iraqis full control of its army and police force. Doing so, he said, would allow the Iraqi government to bring the violence under control within six months.
The "most other estimates" comment likely refers to estimates compiled by iraqbodycount.org, the Los Angeles Times, and the Brookings Institute, which give figures between 48,000-62,000.
You know what this means, don't you?
Obviously, this means the evil neocon war machine must have slaughtered the other half million people reported killed since the 2003 election... probably by strangulation.
Hell of a job, Rummy.
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CY -- I'm genuinely curious about this post: do you, like Limbaugh, feel relieved that you don't have to carry water for incompetents like Rummy anymore? Or do you support Rumsfeld, and thus in this post you're mocking liberals who deride him?
Thanks,
Earl
Posted by: Earl at November 09, 2006 06:57 PM (1vDHD)
2
And CNN's The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer in the Atlanta airport last night presented his comments as 150,000 killed "by the US invasion." Truth-tellers always!?!
Posted by: SDN at November 10, 2006 08:48 AM (ozDzM)
3
who do you believe blitzer or the iraqi health minister?
Posted by: mud at November 10, 2006 11:04 AM (DSeW+)
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The Dominos Fall
Via
Fox News:
Among those expected to hand in resignation letters is the Pentagon's top intelligence official, Under Secretary of Defense Steve Cambone, a close Rumsfeld associate and a key architect in planning for the Iraq war and the War on Terror.
Cambone is the first person to hold the post, and in doing so helped the Pentagon step up its own intelligence gathering assets, a role traditionally overseen by the CIA. The new system led to turf battles between the two agencies in recent years.
This resignation is hardly unexpected, and as the article mentions, more are certainly on the way.
The article also mentions this, which makes me uneasy:
In announcing the secretary's resignation, President Bush said he was nominating Robert Gates, a veteran of the CIA under President George H.W. Bush, to lead the Pentagon. Though closely tied to the Bush family, Gates is considered by many to be an agent of change.
Rep. Jane Harman, the expected next chairwoman of the House Intelligence Committee, said Gates would be a good fit to run the Department of Defense because of his intelligence background.
"He will respect the role of civilian intelligence agencies, including the CIA," Harman, D-Calif., said.
Harmon is one of many Democrats that backs John Murtha's "over the horizon" movement of soldiers out of Iraq.
The more I hear about Bob Gates and who is supporting him, the more I come to think he's the "Harriet Miers" nominee for Secretary of Defense.
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Sins of the Father
Robert Gates, the nominee to replace Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of State was the
Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Adviser during the failed 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein at the end of the Gulf War that may have led to the mass murder of
100,000 Shiite Iraqis:
On Feb. 15, 1991, President George H.W. Bush called on the Iraqi military and people to overthrow Saddam Hussein. On March 3, an Iraqi tank commander returning from Kuwait fired a shell through one of the portraits of Hussein in Basra's main square, igniting the southern uprising. A week later, Kurdish rebels ended Hussein's control over much of the north.
But although Bush had called for the rebellion, his administration was caught unprepared when it happened. The administration knew little about those in the Iraqi opposition because, as a matter of policy, it refused to talk to them. Policymakers tended to see Iraq's main ethnic groups in caricature: The Shiites were feared as pro-Iranian and the Kurds as anti-Turkish. Indeed, the U.S. administration seemed to prefer the continuation of the Baath regime (albeit without Hussein) to the success of the rebellion. As one National Security Council official told me at the time: "Our policy is to get rid of Saddam, not his regime."
The practical expression of this policy came in the decisions made by the military on the ground. U.S. commanders spurned the rebels' plea for help. The United States allowed Iraq to send Republican Guard units into southern cities and to fly helicopter gunships. (This in spite of a ban on flights, articulated by Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf with considerable swagger: "You fly, you die.") The consequences were devastating. Hussein's forces leveled the historical centers of the Shiite towns, bombarded sacred Shiite shrines and executed thousands on the spot. By some estimates, 100,000 people died in reprisal killings between March and September. Many of these atrocities were committed in proximity to American troops, who were under orders not to intervene.
In recent years Baghdad has shortchanged the south in the distribution of food and medicine, contributing to severe malnutrition among vulnerable populations. Some 100 Shiite clerics have been murdered, including four senior ayatollahs. Draining the marshes displaced 400,000 Marsh Arabs, destroying a culture that is one of the world's oldest, as well as causing immeasurable ecological damage.
The first Bush administration's decision to abandon the March uprising was a mistake of historic proportions. With U.S. help, or even neutrality, the March uprising could have succeeded, thus avoiding the need for a second costly war.
The obvious question is, "Did Bob Gates have a hand in shaping Bush's call for rebellion?"
If so, would he also partially responsible for failing to support the rebellion, leading to one of Saddam's greatest genocides? I do not know the answers to these questions, but they must be asked before he is confirmed as the next U.S. Secretary of Defense.
While I sincerely hope that the sentiment expressed on Austin Bay's blog that the Gates nomination may political prep for "prosecuting the war even more vociferously," I think that Mr. Gates and the present Bush Administration owe to it to us and the Iraqi people to explain in detail what role, if any, he played in an Administration that instigated, and then failed to support, the 1991 uprisings.
The administration of Bush '41 failed Iraq once when we cried for them to stand up for their freedom. The same personnel who failed Iraqis in 1991 should not be given the opportunity to do so again.
Update: It's up behind an annoying subscriber wall, But Allah says that the Wall Street Journal is on the same page.
One reason the Iraqi government of Nouri al-Maliki has had such a hard time dismantling Shiite militias is because Shiites fear that itÂ’s only a matter of time before the U.S. abandons them again and they will have to confront the Sunni Baathist insurgency on their own. If President Bush wants to reassure Shiites on this score and about Mr. Gates, he should announce that the recent efforts to appease the Sunni terrorist political fronts in Iraq have failed.
We presume Mr. Gates will be grilled about these and other issues during his confirmation hearings. He should be.
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It's important to realize that Bush(41) DID want to keep going until they reached Baghdad, but the U.N. changed the rules along the way.
Hanging it on Bush and Gates without reason and without giving reference to the relevant facts is not really fair. We were in a period of time when it really looked like the U.N. could be a force for good, until they (the U.N.) realized that Saddam could be toppled and then they (the U.N.) caved and the coalition began to crumble.
It's my sincere opinion that Bush(41) believed that if the Iraqis began to rise up, that the U.N. would get back on board, but of course they didn't.
It's easy to hang the woes of the world (past and present) on the U.S., but to do so isn't necessarily intellectually honest nor historically accurate.
While I agree that Gates should answer questions about Gulf 1, I don't think it's fair to give a pet albatross to him unfairly and without considering the entirety of convergent and divergent factors.
--Jason
Posted by: Jason Coleman at November 09, 2006 08:51 PM (As32a)
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Official Enough: Democrats Take Senate
Stick a fork in George Allen.
He's done, are are the GOP's slim hopes of holding on to the Senate:
A Democratic takeover of the Senate is appearing likely after an ongoing canvass of votes in Virginia produced no significant changes in the outcome of the hard-fought race led by Democratic challenger Jim Webb, sources told CNN Wednesday.
Wednesday night, with Webb leading Republican Sen. George Allen by about 7,200 votes and the canvass about half complete, The Associated Press declared Webb the winner.
CNN does not declare a winner when race results are less than 1 percent and the potential loser may request a recount vote.
A source close to Allen also told CNN that the senator "has no intention of dragging this out."
Meanwhile, a Webb aide told CNN that he plans a formal news conference Thursday morning to declare victory.
A victory by Webb would put the new Senate lineup at 49 Democrats, 49 Republicans and two independents -- Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut -- who have said they would caucus with the Democrats.
This outcome in Virginia is hardly unexpected at this point, but perhaps the most interesting aspect of this is that Joe Lieberman, the Senator that the liberal netroots derided as "Rape Gurney Joe", has potentially become a powerful swing vote in the Senate should he decide to act as such. All the bile and hatred directed at him may not easily be forgotten.
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Joe noted in his press conference yesterday that although he would "organize" with the democrats (so he keeps seniority), he will be "beholden" to no party and will vote on what is best for Connecticut and his own conscience. Nice job nutroots. Throw your own people under the bus and then expect them to vote lockstep. LOL
Posted by: Specter at November 09, 2006 07:14 AM (ybfXM)
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The trouble with Joe is tyhat his conscience is so liberal Diane Feinstein is to his right. So is Hillary Clinton. Joe's a liberal Democrat and he's not likely to change a voting pattern that goes back 18 years int he Senate, just because he got thrown under the bus. It does mean though that as long as the Republicans can keep the Senators voting for the war, then Lieberman will make it 50 most of the time.
Posted by: Joe at November 09, 2006 09:28 AM (etxGA)
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Senator Joe said before the election "I can forgive, but I can't forget". It's hard to see how a three-term senator could not look at most of his fellow Dems who dumped him in a less than favorable light.
Posted by: Tom TB at November 09, 2006 10:33 AM (0Co69)
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ON the other hand, I hope Joe doesnt forget who put him in office.
Moderate Republicans.
Too bad that pussyass loser Chaffee (who apparently wont roll over and be dead) will kill the Bolton nomination.
Posted by: TMF at November 10, 2006 08:54 AM (+BgNZ)
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November 08, 2006
Rumsfeld Resigns
Catching it on Drudge and Rush, and will expect to hear confirmation in Bush's press conference momentarily.
Will update...
Confirmed. Rumfeld was on his way out prior to the election, and our new nominee for Secretary of Defense is Bob Gates, currenty the President of Texas A&M. Bush said that Gates had met with him in Crawford this past Sunday, where I understand he was offered the position. He is the only career officer in the CIA's history to rise from an entry-level employee to the directorship. Gates had previously declined the Director of National Intelligence position now filled by John Negroponte. I'm sure we'll hear more about him in the days ahead, but I simply don't know enoughabout him to know what kind of Secretary he may be at this point.
Mary Katharine has more.
Update: Austin Bay reports that an officer he knows thinks that Rumsfeld's resignation sets the stage for more aggressive action against the terrorists.
That is an interesting hypothesis. If the key issue of the mid-terms for voters was dissatisfaction with the prosecution of the war in Iraq, then a "new direction" could well come in the form of more aggressive, targeted, and tangible offensive operations.
It will be interesting to see if this is indeed the path taken.
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I understand the President has also just announced that he's renaming the Department of Defense, which will heretofore be known as the Department of Appeasement, and is replacing the Joint Chiefs with borrowed French officers.
I've disagreed with some of Rumsfelds policies but the way this went down sucks big time.
Posted by: Bill Faith at November 08, 2006 02:11 PM (n7SaI)
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Gates is already being targeted by the far left for a supposed role in Iran-Contra.
Posted by: Ken at November 08, 2006 02:52 PM (pJHhK)
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Bill:
That is not fair. From what I understand Gates has a very distinguished history and has worked with four different presidents, he is not a lightweight and there is no reason to believe he will appease anything. Rumsfeld is an old man, maybe he is tired and he wanted out.
Perhaps Bush is trying to restore confidence, whatever you can count on the fact that Gates will take a load of crap during confirmation.
Posted by: Terrye at November 08, 2006 03:29 PM (qGwDe)
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Gates brings three things to the job:
He is an excellent administrator.
He is an expert on Iran.
He is an expert on nuclear weapons.
Just sayin'
Posted by: Max at November 08, 2006 07:47 PM (zN/fx)
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"Update: Austin Bay reports that an officer he knows thinks that Rumsfeld's resignation sets the stage for more aggressive action against the terrorists."
I agree. Though far removed from the halls of power, I've suspected that it was Rumsfeld who was pushing the "Iraqi-ization" policy towards the Shi'i militias and forbidding Americans from dealing with them themselves. There was an article in last week's Army Times in which senior officers were hinting at their irritation at not being allowed to smash Sadr and his ilk.
Posted by: Dawnfire82 at November 08, 2006 09:00 PM (RvTAf)
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GATES SHOULD REMINDS LEFTIES THAT REAGAN AIDED IRAN - AND NOT IRAQ DURING THE IRAN-IRAQ WAR.
But that's the only good thing he brings beside extrem knowledge of the clandestine aspects of warfare. and we are also fighting a cladestine wa against neojihadism - all over the world.
but i am disheatened by the fact that he is a james Baker kinda guy.
we don;t need to accommodate the enemy - as he did china after tiannamen. and elsewhee.
if bush had let israel destroy hizballah then the GOP would have won.
but bush has ceded to the rice/baker. and now gates accomodationists. i fear.
this does not bode well for our impending crises in Korea and Iran.
it means we will not pressure them, and syria more, but less.
it means more pressure on israel, too.
more chamberlianesque policies.
which always fail.
if we survive that failure, then perhaps the m,sm and the left will join our side.
but i doub t it.
they are 9/10 people in a 9/12 world.
Posted by: reliapundit at November 08, 2006 09:39 PM (UTJFB)
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I don't think the approach to the war will change. It has now taken on all the ear marks of Vietnam with the limits placed on targets and allowing the enemy to use our soldiers as predictable targets. In short, we need to begin hurting alot more people.
But this chage in leadership might be more of a political move. I don't know much about Gates but be will now have to be approved by a Democratic congress. Thus they are giving approval to the ultimate administrator of the war. As such they take the responsibility for any difficulty. Seems like more of a chess move than a real change.
Posted by: David Caskey at November 09, 2006 09:46 AM (xxoPt)
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What I will Not Be Doing Today
The following is a short list of things I will
not be doing in the wake of the 2006 mid-terms:
- Blaming Diebold.
- Staying in bed with massive depression.
- Creating a new election-based psychological malady.
- Lamenting that America has down descended into a (fill in the blank) state.
- Checking out immigration laws to other countries.
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Good ones. Here are some from my list:
- "Take to the Streets"
- Call for revolution
- Consider secession
- Travel to the 9/11 memorial in Arizona and kill myself (what too soon?)
- Blame it on a Carville-ian conspiracy
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at November 08, 2006 12:59 PM (oC8nQ)
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I decided to go into mourning for one minute, but I only lasted 20 seconds. It's a beautiful sunny morning in the greatest nation of all, and it's time to start reminding Republicans of why they wanted political power in the first place. It wasn't to act like the Democrats, it was to fight for ideals of freedom and justice.
Republicans lost the election, and the Democrats won only because they were the only other game in town.
Posted by: Major Mike at November 08, 2006 01:55 PM (bc5O8)
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I'm just windering if the Dems will continue and finish their investigations into all the charges of voter suppression and election fraud that they were yelling about for the last couple of days. I'd really like to get to the bottom of it this time, but I have a bad feeling that they'll give up and we won't hear about it any more (for a while).
The good news is that the Dems (in the House so far) don't have much to hide behind anymore. The only real thing they will be able to blame on anyone else now is if Bush vetoes some legislation.
I do hope that Bush will not get all mushy with them just to prove he is a "nice guy".
Only time will tell and my time has other things to do....
Posted by: SouthernRoots at November 08, 2006 03:32 PM (jHBWL)
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Once I heard the news I thought that maybe the Democrats will finally end the War on Poverty declared by LBJ 40+ years ago. Talk about a quagmire.
Posted by: bws53 at November 08, 2006 09:12 PM (u6hOc)
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The Morning After
Well I just
suck at election prognosticating, don't I?
In a national mid-term election billed as a battle against the way the War in Iraq is being waged and against Republican scandals, Democrats waltzed to an easy reversal of power in the House of Representatives and what many expect to be a slim majority in the Senate.
The Democratic Party is to be commended for their victories, and their candidates are to be congratulated.
What remains to be seen, however, is what Democratic electoral success will mean to our domestic and foreign policy.
Domestically, the farthest reaching effect may be upon those that are not elected to office but appointed, as the Democratic majority will be able to shape who is appointed to federal judgeships, including any Supreme Court vacancies that may occur at least until the 2008 election cycle. There are of course some responsible moderate judges to choose from, but I feel that a strict, historically-grounded interpretation of the Constitution is needed on the federal level, and that is most often found in the kind of judges that Democrats are likely to filibuster.
Free trade is also going to be dead, and we can expect taxes to go up through a combination of new taxes and a refusal to renew the tax cuts made by the previous Congress.
We can also expect a "quagmire" as Democrats follow through on their promised "investigations" of the Bush Administration. Some of these are indeed warranted--I know for a concrete fact that the U.S. Maritime Administration (MARAD) is as corrupt as it can be and engaged in illegal activity, as I have personally seen the evidence--and I feel that if the Administration did indeed break any laws they should of course be held accountable.
I fear, however, that honest investigations of deep-seated agency-level bureaucratic corruption I suspect exists will be ignored in favor of investigations of "brand name" targets. I fully expect Democrats to follow through on multiple investigations targeting the President and Vice President based not upon any actual criminality, but on the appearance of impropriety, with the goal of further weakening the Executive Branch and laying the groundwork for the 2008 campaigns.
But what concerns me far more than these domestic issues (at least for now) is what the election means internationally, specifically in the War on Terror.
I can respect the fact that a majority of American voters do not like the way the War on Terror is being conducted. I don't particularly like the way the War on Terror is being fought, particularly in the battleground of Iraq where al Qaeda and allied terrorist groups have joined with state sponsors of terrorism Syria and Iran in an effort to not only destroy any hopes of democracy taking root in the Arab world, but to rally the support of Islamists worldwide.
Fair or not, terrorist leaders around the world openly cheerleaded for Democratic victory. Leaders of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Islamic Jihad and Hamas were among those that publicly stated that they thought much talked about Democratic plans for withdrawal from Iraq would embolden and spread fundamentalist resistance against the United States. al Qaeda's curiously silent Osama bin Laden had pulled for a Democratic victory for the same reasons in the 2004 elections.
Will the new Democratic leadership take stock of these comments and attempt to understand why the terrorists cheered them on to victory? Recent history and breaking news alike suggests that they will not. Nancy Pelosi has already this to say about the War on Terror in Iraq:
"Nowhere did Americans make it more clear that a change is needed in Iraq ... we can't continue down that catastrophic path," she said. "Mr President, we need a new direction in Iraq."
Pelosi and other Democratic leaders such as Charles Rangel and John Murtha have made clear that their "new direction" is a vision of withdrawal, without apparently registering that such a plan would embolden and spread terrorism, as the terrorists themselves have clearly stated:
Many Democratic politicians and some from the Republican Party have stated a withdrawal from Iraq would end the insurgency there.
In a recent interview with CBS's "60 Minutes," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, stated, "The jihadists (are) in Iraq. But that doesn't mean we stay there. They'll stay there as long as we're there."
Pelosi would become House speaker if the Democrats win the majority of seats in next week's elections.
WND read Pelosi's remarks to the terror leaders, who unanimously rejected her contention an American withdrawal would end the insurgency.
Islamic Jihad's Saadi, laughing, stated, "There is no chance that the resistance will stop."
He said an American withdrawal from Iraq would "prove the resistance is the most important tool and that this tool works. The victory of the Iraqi revolution will mark an important step in the history of the region and in the attitude regarding the United States."
Jihad Jaara said an American withdrawal would "mark the beginning of the collapse of this tyrant empire (America)."
My greatest fear in Iraq is not for the American military, which overwhelmingly wants to stay engaged and finish the mission, but for the 26 million people of Iraq who face a dire future in the hands of a "cut and run" Congress.
If Democrats are able to force a retreat from Iraq, the existing sectarian violence will likely devolve into a full-fledged civil war that the still-weak Iraqi security forces will be unable to stop or perhaps even slow. The possibility exists for Iraq to fall into full-fledged tribalism, with widespread genocide a distinct possibility. If this comes to pass, the United States will have abandoned the Iraqi people twice in two wars after asking for their support, at the cost of tens of thousands of their lives. Neither they, nor any other nation on earth, will have any reason to trust commitments America for a long time to come.
Terrorism, instead of being defeated, will have proven to be an effective tactic.
That may be the ultimate legacy of Nancy Pelosi and Democratic control of the House of Representatives if the liberal leadership has its way. We can only hope that the Democratic moderates who won most of last night elections can steer their leaders from the rear.
If they cannot, our foreign policy will, quite simply, encourage further acts of terrorism, as the terrorists themselves have made abundantly clear.
Update: Well, that didn't take long.
Update: And it gets worse, quickly:
"America is offering political, financial and logistic cover for the Zionist occupation crimes, and it is responsible for the Beit Hanoun massacre. Therefore, the people and the nation all over the globe are required to teach the American enemy tough lessons," Hamas' military wing said in a statement faxed to news organizations in Gaza.
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Well Confederate Yankee props to you for at least giving me the conservatives point of view for the past long while.
Posted by: Jswanny at November 08, 2006 11:27 AM (+Q7GB)
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The more I think about this election, the more I am changing my view on it. At first I was upset, but now I am thinking that now that the Democrats have control of the house and maybe the senate, lets see these plans they have screamed about during the election.
I am no prognosticator, but if the Democrats cant pull off all these amazing things they are claiming they will be able to do. How do you think they will fare in the 08 Presidential Election?
I mean n ow it is put up or shut up time! So as they say the proof will be in the pudding.
Posted by: 81 at November 08, 2006 11:46 AM (y67bA)
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Everyone is mashing the teeth today and anticipating the most horrible of things. But stop and think. The Democrats can not pass any new tax legislation unless Bush signs it. Now he is a liberal and likely would. In fact, I wonder if the previous conservative congress was keeping a check on this idiot. As to not renewing existing tax cut, the Republicans should have taken care of that when they had the power. Instead, they simply spent like there was no tomorrow. That is what I feel the real issue was and not the Iraq war. I am sick to death of the job the Republican party has done on those of us that supported it.
We may now have the best of all governments, one that can do nothing.
Posted by: David Caskey at November 08, 2006 11:46 AM (xxoPt)
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Free trade is also going to be dead, and we can expect taxes to go up through a combination of new taxes and a refusal to renew the tax cuts made by the previous Congress.
Oh, get real. Did you think our massive deficit would magically vanish if the Dems had lost big? Whether you feel the spending was justified/reasonable or not, taxes going up is a given. Even many Repubs in Congress were iffy on continuing Bush's tax cuts. The only thing Dem losses last night might have done is allowed Bush to juggle the books until the end of his term. Now he's gotta face his own music.
We can also expect a "quagmire" as Democrats follow through on their promised "investigations" of the Bush Administration. Some of these are indeed warranted--I know for a concrete fact that the U.S. Maritime Administration (MARAD) is as corrupt as it can be and engaged in illegal activity, as I have personally seen the evidence--and I feel that if the Administration did indeed break any laws they should of course be held accountable.
Then why condemn it as a 'quagmire' before it even starts up? We all know a) there's massive corruption in this administration and b) a GOP-run Congress will never, ever, ever exercise oversight. How dare those Democrats make Congress do its job!
I fear, however, that honest investigations of deep-seated agency-level bureaucratic corruption I suspect exists will be ignored in favor of investigations of "brand name" targets.
Sometimes, where there's smoke, there's fire...
I fully expect Democrats to follow through on multiple investigations targeting the President and Vice President based not upon any actual criminality, but on the appearance of impropriety, with the goal of further weakening the Executive Branch and laying the groundwork for the 2008 campaigns.
Well, in every gov't ethics course I've ever seen (and my job requires a number of them, regularly), the appearance of impropriety is usually an _explicit_ reason for an investigation. Maybe if they weren't such unrepentant screwups, they could get the benefit of the doubt. But not Bush.
Posted by: legion at November 08, 2006 03:03 PM (3eWKF)
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Well, in every gov't ethics course I've ever seen (and my job requires a number of them, regularly), the appearance of impropriety is usually an _explicit_ reason for an investigation. Maybe if they weren't such unrepentant screwups, they could get the benefit of the doubt. But not Bush.
I'm sure you would be all for investigations into Reid then? I'm sure that you will call for the immediate resignation of Jefferson as well? Were you as interested in why all those FBI files were found in the White House?
Oops, my bad. They're not Republicans, and so the perception of impropriety has different rules. Sort of like listening to liberal bloggers talk. If you heard the exact same language from your Minister, you would be shocked and disappointed, perhaps even mad because you had high expectations. With the liberal blogger, you also had expectations and his language didn't surprise or anger you because they didn't do anything out of character, so they get a pass.
If there are "real" issues, investigate them - regardless of party affiliation. Punish the wrong doers - regardless of party affiliation.
Just run investigations the same - regardless of party affiliation. Clean out ALL corrupt politicians and bureaucrats - regardless of party affiliation.
Too bad "tolerant, non-judgemental" Democrats choose to run legal investigations based on political profiling rather than based on the actual wrong doing.
PA - I've thought the same myself. 100% inspection would tie up ports and put a huge economic strain on the shipping industry.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at November 08, 2006 04:03 PM (jHBWL)
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Roots,
Guess again. If there's reason enough to warrant an investigation, then by all means Reid should have the same scrutiny as Frist, DeLay, etc. Considering that those investigations are being carried out by the (still-GOP-run) Justice dept, I fail to see how the election results come into play at all. And Jefferson, as every single lefty I know or have spoken to via the 'net agrees, is a slimebag who should be in jail rather than DC.
Too bad "tolerant, non-judgemental" Democrats choose to run legal investigations based on political profiling rather than based on the actual wrong doing.
Really? Name one current investigation the Dems are running. Now guess the number of ethics complaints the Congress has looked into under GOP rule...
Posted by: legion at November 08, 2006 05:03 PM (3eWKF)
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You might want to take a look at actual voting records before deciding us Ds are all bunch of antiwar wimps.
Same thing with trade. Considering that Bush' actions have been much more anti-free-trade (raised tarifs twice) than Clinton (NAFTA), shouldn't you be wailing at Bush for being anti-free-trade?
Oh, yes, I know Bush lowered the tariffs again, after WTO action, but at the very least, he deserves scorn for politicizing the issue, riling our allies, and paying time for the govt to handle the WTO case.
Posted by: Jon Kay at November 08, 2006 08:50 PM (nlbbN)
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Let me get this straight. The overwhelming majority of troops want to stay in Iraq because "dozens" of them were interviewed by a WP reporter? Talk about silly extrapolations.
I think you'd find that our soldiers' feelings about the war, if you polled every single one of them, would resemble the feelings of the population at large, which seems to be that 33% are against the war, 33% support it, and 33% are immersed in their own cozy ambivalence.
Posted by: bad cabbage at November 10, 2006 06:55 AM (I1Y0b)
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