June 20, 2007
Intrepid L.A. Times Reporter Uncovered Second Diyala Campaign
Operation Arrowhead Thunder?
Who knew?
Soldiers conducting Operation Arrowhead Thunder also have uncovered more than 1,000 roadside bombs around the provincial capital, Baqubah, where the offensive is being conducted, Iraqi security officials said.
I'm sure that the Times' crack reporters and editorial staff will soon provide us with an exclusive interview with General Perseus himself.
(h/t Hot Air's new headline thingy)
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Recycling the Dead
Just eight days ago, in advance of the now-engaged campaign in Baquba, Italian-based "news" site
Uruknet re-posted in full an article by
The Peoples Voice, a site dedicated, according to the masthead, to "Environmental, political, and social justice issues."
The People's Voice post attempts to re-raise the specter of the "illegal" use of Mark 77 firebombs and white phosphorus ordnance that they and other questionable media outlets claimed were used against civilians in the 2004 assault on Fallujah and in the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003. The article features three graphic pictures of victims that the site intones were killed with firebombs and white phosphorus.
There's a funny thing about at least two of those three pictures, however.
The first image they use in line with comments about the use of Mark 77 firebombs in 2003 was actually taken in Fallujah in 2004, following the American assault on that city, and was featured in the Italian-made documentary Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre that I roundly debunked in November of 2005.
As I stated at the time about this photo:
Body 3. 9:38 Extremely decomposed remains, cause of death undetermined. No apparent burn marks on the body or clothes.
Body 3 referred to the order of appearance of the remains, and 9:38 corresponds to when the photo was shown in the documentary. Interestingly enough, while the People's Voice leave the reader to infer that this body was the victim of a firebomb, the Italian documentary claimed that this body had been killed by white phosphorus. Details, details...
While the photo is of extremely low quality (and therefore easy to spin any way you desire), it is clear the corpse is clothed. Something that burns as hot as napalm or firebomb would likely have burned the clothing completely away, if not most or all of the body as well.
The fact of the matter is that we don't know what killed this suspected insurgent in Fallujah, and the attempt by the RAI documentary to claim he/she was a victim of white phosphorus is equally irresponsible as the People's Voice attempt to link the corpse to a a strike by a Mark 77 at any point in the war, much less a period in time that doesn't coincide with the claims made in the article's text.
The next body shown in the People's Voice article was also lifted from the RAI documentary, and led the reader to believe this body was the dead suspected insurgent was killed by white phosphorus.
Really?
As I noted when I first saw this picture in the RAI documentary:
Body 18. 19:40 Military-aged male, moderately decomposed. No sign of burns on face or clothes.
Once again, (like every single photo in the RAI documentary) there is no physical evidence on this corpse consistent with white phosphorous wounds.
Chris Milroy, professor of forensic pathology at the University of Sheffield (England), after seeing these bodies in the RAI documentary, said:
..."nothing indicates to me that the bodies have been burnt". They had turned black and lost their skin "through decomposition".
It might also be worth noting that the author of the Guardian article cited above made false claims regarding the use of thermobaric weapons in Fallujah (to the best of my knowledge, precisely one thermobaric weapon has been dropped in wartime, and that was used against a cave in Afghanistan).
The third body shown in the People's Voice article, point or origin unknown, also shows a badly decomposed body, cause of death unknown and partially skeletal, as some sort of incendiary weapons victim as well, without any pathological proof presented.
As for the actual charges made in the People's Voice article...
Well, to call them "highly selective" in nature would be fair, as would be calling them "inconsistent" with the military use of white phosphorus even on personnel, "ignorant" as to its actual effects of such weapons on the human body (it would burns holes in a person that did not brush or shake it off; it does not engulf them), and "misleading" overall.
In other words, the entire article is unreliable, but as People's Voice is concerned with environmental issues, we can at least commend them for recycling the dead.
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It is interesting how this story keeps resurfacing. I think much of it is caused by an ignorance of ordinance and its various effects.
I do believe the Marines used fuel-air explosive ordinance to clear some of the building in Fallujah. Whether it was responsible for the effect they are complaining about is unknown. From what I have seen, it was an effective means of clearing the enemy and saving American lives, something that apparently disappoints the authors of this reoccurring story.
Posted by: Merv Benson at June 20, 2007 12:21 PM (JLrst)
2
Yeah, unfortunately it's a regular practice in the media to use a photo to buttress a story, whether that photo is actually of the scene or event or not. They just find a photo that lines up with what they're talking about and plug it in. I've seen it happen with my own just recently. One of my photos from the Tal Afar truck bombing in late March showed up in a story about a suicide bomber in a building in Baghdad just a couple of weeks ago. All they wanted was a good pic to show a destroyed building.
I'm deployed right now as a combat photographer so I check the web every now and then to see where my photo's end up.
Posted by: Chris at June 20, 2007 12:53 PM (+jw0C)
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Merv, I believe what you are referring to is the Marine-deployed SMAW-NE shoulder-fired rocket, a close-to-medium range
thermobaric warhead. The common complaint about the SMAW-NE is that it had great difficulty penetrating structures, forcing those Marines firing to either aim for a door or window, or use the SMAW-NE through holes opened up by more conventional anti-tank rockets. Once inside, the blast typically collapsed walls and killed thos einside the structure with it's confined overpressure, or shock wave.
While my own knowledge of overpressure effects is very limited, it is the same primary blast or "shock wave" mechanism is well known, and I doubt it would be responsible for the appearance of these bodies. The hot desert sun and natural process of decomposition seems to be a far more plausible cause.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 20, 2007 12:54 PM (9y6qg)
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Ahhh! But you seem to not grasp the fundamental fact that anything-- anything at all!-- is justified when the cause is "social justice," and our beloved environment! The glorious ends easily justify the means.
Likewise, Al Queda "freedom fighters" get to shoot children in the head AND still retain their status as "holy men." When the goal is good enough, pure enough, true enough, everything is justified.
Posted by: Mike at June 20, 2007 01:03 PM (U7UoP)
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I blame global warming.
Posted by: Steve at June 20, 2007 01:22 PM (JMLfo)
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I think you have described the ordinance I was referring to. Reports I have seen suggested it was pretty potent once penetration was achieved. (Pardon the pun.)
Al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist push what I call a victim offensive from time to time. Hezballah was pretty effective with theirs during last summers war with Israel. The Palestinians have also used victims offensives to get pressure on Israel to stop effective attacks. Bin Laden has used them in recruiting videos.
This one is like Jason in his goalie mask. Every time you drive a stake through it a few weeks later it comes back. I ran into it a couple of months ago on a UK terrorism site.
Posted by: Merv Benson at June 20, 2007 02:50 PM (JLrst)
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You use the phrase "suspected insurgent" in your post. I never saw the documentary. Do they establish that these are bodies of insurgents or civilians?
Posted by: dmarek at June 20, 2007 04:32 PM (J0Xcd)
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The media ignores the dead bodies produced by our enemies because they cannot blame them on the President, or our military.
Example:
Terrorists kill, say, 50 in a market bombing. The number is reported, and the story ends.
However - if our troops kill ONE civilian, who may or may not be an actual "civilan", who may or may not have done something to GET killed in the first place....and the press picks the entire thing apart. They go to great lengths to reconstruct the very thoughts inside the head of the troop who did the killing, making insinuations and suggestions that lead the reader/viewer to believe that the troop member did it on purpose, out of some wild vengeful tirade of anger.
Yet....50 dead are reported as "50 dead"....no reporting as to the motivation (jihadi islam) used by the attacker, where he might have gotten his weaponry....etc etc etc.
The press is full of terrorist tools....This piece by CY confirms it!
Posted by: LisaV (aka "Talismen" - Lady Crusader against jihad) at June 20, 2007 04:38 PM (hosSA)
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the photos and so-called journalism that accompanied them kinds remind me of the "biker" photo from Hollister in the 1950's. Can you spell fabrication, or is it journalistic license?
Posted by: David W Shamblin at June 20, 2007 05:48 PM (GqFYz)
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I have the original pictures of my nephew and his brother marines while they executed phantom fury,and othersthru 030405 and whatched camp fallujah being built to safe guard the returning civilians.The fire fights were to the point andvery defenative,drope it or loose it all,if you want to dance you better bring a few buddies then we can party.I got alot of marines partying with inscumbags,guess who wins.Also marines taking care of the civilians,children and old men an women,showing their human side during war.Those who needed to be gone(poof)the marines made it happen and no more threat.oorrraaahhhThe people were warned,if you stay you are considered a badguy,and we will kill you!!The people were warned,but the weak and old were taken care of by the same marines who were trained to kill.Hell the medic took care of a few dogs that were injured.Didnt see any firballs but do have pics of buildings braught down,no fire no smoke just flattened.
Posted by: referman at June 20, 2007 06:29 PM (zdfyC)
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You use the phrase "suspected insurgent" in your post. I never saw the documentary. Do they establish that these are bodies of insurgents or civilians?
It's been a year since I've watched it, but I suspect you could find it on Youtube, or somewhere else. I don't exactly recall what they called them, but my general impression, as I recall it, was that they were attepmting to imply that most were innocents, even though most bodies were military-aged males, and some were clearly wearing military load-bearing equipment.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 20, 2007 10:19 PM (HcgFD)
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Well, good job. You have just given them the information to use so that the next pictures they show of the latest American war crimes will be more believable.
But you should know, that just like the Jews are always in the wrong, so are we, with or without pictures.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Posted by: Papa Ray at June 20, 2007 10:56 PM (gQ03B)
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Your spam filter defeated me. I'll not comment at your site again. Ever. G
Posted by: Gerry at June 21, 2007 12:45 AM (t0+d5)
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I'll not comment at your site again. Ever.
You'd really do that for us?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 21, 2007 09:43 PM (9yWTK)
Posted by: pst314 at June 23, 2007 01:33 PM (lCxSZ)
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Arrowhead Ripper: In Your Face
MNF-I
released comments this morning regarding the opening day of Operation Arrowhead Ripper, targeting al Qaeda elements in Baquba, capitol of Iraq's Diyala Province.
The 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division launched the offensive with a quick-strike night air assault early Tuesday morning.
"The end state is to destroy the al-Qaeda influences in this province and eliminate their threat against the people," said U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Mick Bednarek, deputy commanding general of operations for the 25th Infantry Division. "That is the number one, bottom-line, up-front, in-your-face task and purpose."
About 10,000 Soldiers, with a full complement of attack helicopters, close-air support, Strykers and Bradley fighting vehicles, are taking part in Arrowhead Ripper, which is still in its opening stages. Elements of the 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division; the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division and the 25th Combat Aviation Brigade are also participating in the operation.
The MNF-I release claims 22 terrorists killed; VOA News now puts the count at 30, while Earthtimes says 13 other suspect members of al Qaeda were captured, along with weapons caches and roadside bombs.
Soldiers from the 2nd Brigade, 5th Iraqi Army also engaged al Qaeda targets in Baquba, killing four suspected terrorists and capturing two more.
One U.S. soldier has been killed and two have been injured thus far in the operation.
* * *
I'd remind readers that this operation, just underway, will no doubt result in an attempt by al Qaeda propagandists and journalists with questionable sources to allege war crimes, as similar debunked charges were brought up during and after the battle of Fallujah.
Some ersatz media sites sympathetic to jihadists are still running these already debunked claims, and will no doubt attempt to recycle these claims for Operation Arrowhead Ripper (Gee, do the pictures of bodies linked here look familiar to those in the UrukNet photos? They've mysteriously transformed from the bodies of innocent victims of white phosphorus "poison gas" to being victims of napalm or Mark 77 firebombs, even though none were used in Fallujah).
As a side note, white phosphorus has already been used in Baquba...as a screening agent for American forces to move behind and through to avoid enemy fire, which is one of its primary battlefield uses.
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June 19, 2007
Tough Choices
So South Carolina, who will you choose in the next Republican Senate primaries, Lindsay Graham, or an
indicted coke dealer?
I'm guessing that the coke dealer will at least close the border to other cartels, so that's at least a minor improvement
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Hmmmmm.
Personally I'm going to write in either "Tom Tancredo" or "Duncan Hunter" for any office at any level in 2008 where I don't like the existing choices.
And yes I will laugh my butt off if either won.
Posted by: memomachine at June 20, 2007 11:11 AM (3pvQO)
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The Declining State of Taliban Education
How can they call it a "graduation" when it is obvious that not a single student has taken the final exam?
I demand accountability.
Heh. In the comments at Hot Air, "Those who can, bomb. Those who can't, make videos. "
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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May their fuses be too short so they go boom before they reach their targets.
Posted by: Tom TB at June 19, 2007 12:31 PM (h/YdH)
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Bill Roggio has a post up indicating the US sent some their report cards. It appears they neither passed nor need to repeat the course.
Posted by: Dusty at June 19, 2007 05:19 PM (GJLeQ)
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Major Surge Op Underway in Diyala
Up to 10,000 U.S. Troops have mounted an air and ground assault in
Baquba:
Up to 10,000 U.S. soldiers backed by armored vehicles and helicopter gunships fought their way into an al Qaeda haven in Iraq on Tuesday, killing at least 22 extremist fighters, the military said.
Operation Arrowhead Ripper, involving Strykers and Bradley Fighting Vehicles, was aimed at dismantling al Qaeda operations around Baquba, a hotbed of unrest north of Baghdad, a military statement said.
Baquba is the capital of Diyala province, a mixed region located north and east of Baghdad and bordering Iran. Military officials believe some al Qaeda in Iraq elements have recently migrated from Baghdad and Anbar province to Diyala.
The 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division kicked off the operation "with a quick-strike nighttime air assault earlier today," the military said Tuesday.
Ground troops joined the attack helicopters in engaging the militants, 22 of whom were killed by daylight, the military said.
Michael Yon is on the ground with U.S. forces, and writes via email:
We just attacked Baqubah (or let's say it's just begun) and I am here. Very, very busy. US forces appear to be meeting objectives so far. There is fighting and casualties on both sides, but mostly I am seeing order so far.
He posts about the opening stages of the operation in Diyala on his latest dispatch:
The doctor has made a decision: Al Qaeda must be excised. That means a large scale attack, and what appears to be the most widespread combat operations since the end of the ground war are now unfolding. A small part of that larger battle will be the Battle for Baquba. For those involved, it will be a very large battle, but in context, it will be only one of numerous similar battles now unfolding. Just as this sentence was written, we began dropping bombs south of Baghdad and our troops are in contact.
Northeast of Baghdad, innocent civilians are being asked to leave Baquba. More than 1,000 AQI fighters are there, with perhaps another thousand adjuncts. Baquba alone might be as intense as Operation Phantom Fury in Fallujah in late 2004. They are ready for us. Giant bombs are buried in the roads. Snipers—real snipers—have chiseled holes in walls so that they can shoot not from roofs or windows, but from deep inside buildings, where we cannot see the flash or hear the shots. They will shoot for our faces and necks. Car bombs are already assembled. Suicide vests are prepared.
The enemy will try to herd us into their traps, and likely many of us will be killed before it ends. Already, they have been blowing up bridges, apparently to restrict our movements. Entire buildings are rigged with explosives. They have rockets, mortars, and bombs hidden in places they know we are likely to cross, or places we might seek cover. They will use human shields and force people to drive bombs at us. They will use cameras and make it look like we are ravaging the city and that they are defeating us. By the time you read this, we will be inside Baquba, and we will be killing them. No secrets are spilling here.
Read that again, "Baquba alone might be as intense as Operation Phantom Fury in Fallujah in late 2004."
The "Mahogany Ridge" media is tied up in the latest suicide bombing in Baghdad (simply look at the title, lede, and focus of the CNN article cited above as an example), and even those who chose to feature the Baquba assault clearly don't understand the magnitude of the just-joined battle.
Once reality slowly dawns on the media that they are misunderestimating the scope and scale of the assault, steel yourself for a rush of inaccuracies as they seek to get something, anything published, much of it based upon rumor, some of it based upon outright propaganda and lies.
We saw the same during and after Fallujah, when the U.S. military was accused of using napalm on civilians. We don't even have napalm.
The ignorati claimed that white phosphorus was a "chemical weapon," or a "poison gas" and ascribed horrible wounds to it. These claims turned out to be completely untrue.
There may also once again be claims that using .50-caliber machine guns and the cannons of Bradley IFVs and helicopter gunships against terrorist personnel somehow violates the Geneva Conventions. It doesn't.
We'll be hearing and seeing much more from Diyala Province, Baquba proper, and other areas surrounding Baghdad as full-scale surge operations seek to envelop and destroy al Qaeda.
Read smart.
Update: Over at Captains Quarters Ed Morrissey adds some good analysis, and Glenn Reynolds features a longer email from Yon.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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It might not be a bad idea to bring back the good
old Flame thrower and Napalm...
Posted by: Tincan Sailor at June 19, 2007 08:43 AM (L4HGI)
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Hey, cool. I read more of Yon's post. This part was very interesting:
Al Qaeda was never at this table and no one is planning to set a place for them now. They are mass murderers anywhere they can be: Bali, Kandahar, London, Madrid, New York and now, Iraq. This enemy is smart, resourceful and tough, and our early missteps created perfect conditions for the spread of their disease in Iraq.
Political solutions only work with people interested in a resolution where all parties can move forward. Al Qaeda is more interested in an outcome where they dominate through anachronistic anarchy. Our philosophies are so fundamentally different that fighting is inevitable. They want to go backwards and are willing to kill us to do so. We are unwilling to go backwards, and so they started killing us. Finally, we started killing back, but only seriously so after they rammed jets into our buildings, by which they hoped to cause the same chaos and collapse in America (where they failed) that they are fomenting in Iraq (where they are succeeding).
Is AQ really succeeding?
Posted by: b at June 19, 2007 08:51 AM (Vuawi)
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Is AQ really succeeding?
In some regards, unquestionably.
They now exist as a significant presence in Iraq, and as a result of their fight there, have established a certain bit of infamy/fame as a result which helps in both recruiting and funding them. They have also largely been successful in instigating and maintaining the sectarian "civil war" between Sunni and Shia. They play a significant role in keeping Iraq from being stabilized, and account for up to 90% of suicide attacks on Iraqi civilians.
But some, including myself and most embeds I've talked to, most soldiers, and some journalists, think that al Qaeda may be the proverbial "victim of their own success."
They were so good at terrorizing and murdering the Iraqi population that they've eroded their bases of support in the Sunni population severely. As a result, the same Sunni tribes that used to support AQ are now hunting them down and killing them, and are forming political parties to join a government they'd shunned before. This started in al Anbar, and is spreading to other communities like a vine. I know that a lot of support we are getting in Diyala targeting al Qaeda is coming from Iraqi civilians and even Sunni insurgents, both current and former. They don't like Americans, but Americans don't torture and kill their children.
As a result of their brutal oppression of the Iraqi people and their constant, nearly indiscriminant targeting of civilians, they have mostly worn out their welcome, something that al Qaeda's al Zawahari tried to warn AQIZ commander Abu Musab Zarqawi about in the past, but apparently wasn't able to hammer home (a U.S. bomb finished that dialogue just over a year ago, 5 miles north of Baquba).
It may be surprising to hear someone say this, and I may prove to be wrong if the situation changes radically, but I would not be surprised if the major elements of al Qaeda are finished in Iraq before America leaves, and that they will be wiped out largely because of the Iraqis themselves rejecting terrorism tied to radical Sharia.
I also suspect that as Yon states, General Petraeus, far from being out of touch as dim-bulb Harry Reid suggests, is doing much behind the scenes to help orchestrate entire tribes to defect from the insurgency into the political process, as we've seen starting to occur in al Anbar and now beginning in Diyala. As the old saying goes, there is no limit to what you might get done as long as you are willing to give others the credit.
We made a huge mess in Iraq, and one that might not be one we can turn around, but the war is not "lost" by any objective measure, and there are some encouraging developments of note recently to indicate that we may yet pull this off.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 19, 2007 09:32 AM (9y6qg)
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Is AQ really succeeding?
Well, with a great majority of Americans not supporting the effort, including members of Congress, AQ is winning the battle for the political will to keep going.
Through luck and our good enough efforts in Iraq, the Iraqis are getting the political will to fight AQ. One of the primary things that successful operations need is local by-in. Without the support of the locals, we are just holding back the flood with our thumbs.
I share your optimism CY. I think AQ's days can be numbered in months now.
That will still leave large problems to be solved, primarily by the Iraqis and the government which they need to shape into their government.
Posted by: Keith, Indy at June 19, 2007 10:16 AM (B+cEX)
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Al Qaeda doesn't need to succeed to win in Iraq. All they need to do is keep us from winning, anything else is a victory for them.
"You're never beaten until you admit it."
-General George S. Patton, Jr.
According to ole Blood and Guts and Harry Reid, yes, we have lost.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at June 19, 2007 11:43 AM (oC8nQ)
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WTF? Willie-Petes burn, not poison. Anyone near the sucker would get burned when it detonates.
And only 22 terrorists captured?
Posted by: the_velociraptor at June 20, 2007 12:08 AM (DqYja)
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"karlsjr":::
move out of the YURT, get a HAIRCUT, get a JOB, read up on the CONSTITUTION, 911, IRAQ, and militant ISLAM, stop with the sex depravety, your patchouli STINKS, toss your fairy pants SOYBURGER, toss your collectivist
then maybe we can talk,,, JERK
Posted by: Karl at June 20, 2007 01:07 AM (5zEhw)
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"karlsjr":::
throw out your sandals, buy a razor for your common law wifes and start wearing UNDERWARE
Posted by: Karl at June 20, 2007 05:18 PM (5zEhw)
9
Karl
Maybe if took that SPLIFF out of your mouth, turned off the JOPLIN, burned your BEN WAH BEADS, you'd start to take the moslims seriouslee.
Yer probaly one of them VEGANS
Posted by: karlsjr. at June 20, 2007 09:00 PM (cGtRE)
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googled the beads thing,,, wish I hadnt
oh but you know all about it
depraved HIPPY
quit using your rectum for gratification thats NOT what the LORD had in mind
Posted by: Karl at June 20, 2007 11:54 PM (5zEhw)
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June 18, 2007
Silky Pony: I'll Win More Than One Southern State
Or so he boasts in
Men's Vogue.
Men's Vogue?
I'm sure copies are flying off the shelf at Tractor Supply Company as we speak.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Metrosexuals B us.
Or we would be queer if we were not such cowards.
Posted by: 1sttofight at June 18, 2007 12:56 PM (XKYtn)
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So, CY...
How did
you run across this?
Posted by: See-Dubya at June 18, 2007 06:00 PM (1QXhF)
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I'm not sure Chihuahua or Baja count here...
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 18, 2007 06:57 PM (9yWTK)
4
...no fair pickin' on TSC...that was a cheap shot.
Posted by: markm at June 19, 2007 08:44 AM (hVOTO)
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Burning the Smoking Gun: Steyr Responds
Last week I published
Burning the Smoking Gun, which rebuffed/debunked
a claim made by Thomas Harding in a February 12, 2007 U.K.
Daily Telegraph article, which made the claim that "more than 100" HS50 .50-caliber long-range precision sniper rifles purchased by the Iranian government from the Austrian company Steyr-Mannlicher were captured in Iraq by U.S. forces.
I confirmed via U.S. Army LTC Christopher C. Garver, Director of the Combined Press Information Center for Multinational Corps-Iraq that no such rifles had ever been documented as being recovered by American forces.
30 minutes ago, Reinhild Wohltan, acting on behalf of Dr. Viktor Bauer PR GmbH, sent along a press release regarding my story. Below is the press release, as copied into a GIF format from the original PDF:
Steyr-Mannlicher once again denies the rumor published as fact in the Daily Telegraph article, and notes that were these rifles to be used for anthing other than "legitimate and important law enforcement purposes," that Steyr's agreement with the Iranian government would be breached, and intones that if the Iranian-purchased HS50 rifles were captured for "non-legitimate use"--i.e., sniping at Coalition forces within Iraq--that they would "offer support to clarify matters," which I would interpret to mean as offer to compare the serial numbers of any rifles recovered to serial numbers of those purchased by Iran.
The Daily Telegraph has not updated their original article to note that their charges are unsupported, and there is no intention that they will.
SO much for those multiple layers of fact checkers and professional media accountability.
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I'm more impressed that you followed through on your initial willingness to get pissed off, but despite your "outrage" you still followed through on the story to make sure that the story was correct.
Yes the vast majority of blogs do depend on other "legitimate" sources for content, but it is rare that those "legitimate" sources themselves are willing to follow up on a story in the same way that you did initialy, and have continued to do so since.
YAY Bloggers who actually pay attention.
Posted by: Wickedpinto at June 18, 2007 07:37 PM (QTv8u)
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I've taken my hat off before and I'll do it again.
Posted by: Rafar at June 19, 2007 04:12 AM (kkgmI)
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This is Win-Win. If the weapons did make it to Iraq, we have our smoking gun. If they have not, Iran now knows that the manufacturer will work with the coalition if they are considering sending the weapons South.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at June 19, 2007 07:48 AM (oC8nQ)
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I find it hard to believe a press release that claims the 50BMG round is an original Steyr cartridge they have been making rifles for since 1904, that only later began to be used i heavy machineguns.
Posted by: GeorgeH at June 23, 2007 11:45 AM (Jkcjv)
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Brit Ambassador: We Joined Invasion to Keep Cowboy Bush from Nuking Afghanistan
Actually his words were "nuke the shit out of the place," but
you get the drift:
Britain joined the United States' invasion to oust the Taliban in 2001 because it feared America would "nuke the shit" out of Afghanistan, the former British ambassador to Washington reportedly told a television documentary to be screened Saturday.
In comments printed in advance in the Daily Mirror tabloid on Monday, Christopher Meyer said that fear explained why Prime Minister Tony Blair chose to stand with US President George W. Bush in his decision to invade Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks -- to temper his aggressive battle plans.
"Blair's real concern was that there would be quote unquote 'a knee-jerk reaction' by the Americans ... they would go thundering off and nuke the shit out of the place without thinking straight," Meyer reported told the documentary, according to the Mirror.
This makes perfect sense, of course, considering our history. We nuked Iraq after Abdul Rahman Yasin detonated a sodium cyanide-laced bomb in the first attack on the World Trade Center complex in 1993 and fled to that country, did we not? It was the first attempted WMD attack on the United States, and we responded accordingly. Didn't we?
Previously, we'd nuked Lebanon after the 1983 Marine Barracks bombing and Iran during the Hostage Crisis.
We're just a bunch of nuke-crazy fools!
Except that we aren't...
Frankly, this strikes me as the same kind of hyperventilating we heard over the self-debunking collection of seven British documents known as the "Downing Street Memos." Conspiracy theorists live citing the first, but shun mentioning that the David Manning Memo and the Iraqi Options Paper (PDF), two other documents in the series, indicate that a decision to invade was not the foregone conclusion they claimed.
You'll note that the British Christopher Meyer ambassador makes these claims, but at least in this account, doesn't seem to have any evidence to support his claim. How convenient.
The fact that Afghanistan's Taliban was not concentrated into an area where deploying a nuclear weapon would be a feasible option, that any fallout would potentially affect China, Pakistan and India, and that such a strike would fail to root out al Qaeda and Taliban elements somehow didn't factor into this article, or into Meyer's thinking.
I'd love to see what evidence Meyer can produce to show that we seriously considered using nuclear weapons against a largely mountainous, largely rural country in a dramatic over-response that would not likely produce the results of eliminating the Taliban and al Qaeda without also eliminating a much larger non-involved civilian population. I'd like to see documents supporting that we seriously considered what would be nothing less than visiting upon Afghanistan the kind of nuclear genocide Iranian President Mamoud Ahmadinejad keeps promising to deliver to the state of Israel. I suspect we won't get it.
Like the original Downing Street Memo that is the staple of Iraq War conspiracy theorists, this claim is likely the result of not "even fourth-hand" knowledge.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
"... I'd like to see documents ..."
We don't need no stinkin' documents. If it paints; Bush, America, Americans in a bad light, that's enough for any wacko.
Posted by: DoorHold at June 18, 2007 09:49 AM (MeIzN)
2
This sounds like an over statement. But after Bush has burned his own conservative base I am beginning to think that maybe other people saw something in the nut before we did.
Posted by: David Caskey at June 18, 2007 09:51 AM (G5i3t)
3
Sure everythings on the table to prevent iran from obtaining NUKES said so yourself CY:
I would posit that both the Israeli and the U.S. military have munitions capable of destroying or severely damaging Iranian nuclear sites (even hardened underground bunkers), if those sites can be accurately identified.
lets not get COLD FEET
GIT ER DONE!!!
Posted by: Karl at June 18, 2007 10:12 AM (5zEhw)
4
Yeah, but how did they know Bush was a bloodthirsty cowboy cowboy back in 2001? Did he nuke anyone while governor of Texas that I don't know about? Did he commit any warcrimes while in the Texas Air Guard?
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at June 18, 2007 10:45 AM (oC8nQ)
5
I'm betting the ambassador was making a joke in hyperbole. I'm sure it was hilarious to all his "America is a bunch of A-holes" buddies.
As for Karl... this is unrelated to the post but I'm getting bored with the parody of a conservative that you've been playing at. You're posts are ridiculous. and it's spelled: "Git R' Done"
Posted by: K-Det at June 18, 2007 11:14 AM (aaP7C)
6
There probably is a grain of truth to Christopher Meyer's thinking.
No doubt some concern that we might act rashly informed Blair's thinking, but just the normal or generic kind, not the apocalyptic kind. That's part of what friends are for in terrible circumstances and I have no problem with that. That doesn't mean the primary reason for Blair stepping forward was this and not that 9/11 was an act of barbarity which any person in their right mind would assist in countering in some way with great friends wanting to assist in ways that share every burden.
It seems to me, though, Meyer tells us more about Meyer than about Blair. It's quite possible that Meyer communicated this fear himself and thinks it was a direct influence on Blair's thinking.
It seems more likely these were Meyer's fears based on his view of the world and brought to Washington along with his other baggage. And I wouldn't surprised if they were reinforced by the fears communicated within the clique into which he glommed and circled as ambassador in Washington.
The US does not have a monopoly on self-preening egotistical fools at the ambassador level in foreign service.
Posted by: Dusty at June 18, 2007 11:37 AM (GJLeQ)
7
"K-Det":::
EVERYBODY knows bunker busters are NUKES!!! dont play dumb
also you mean 'YOUR parody' not 'you're parody' learn the LANGUAGE!!!
Posted by: Karl at June 18, 2007 11:42 AM (5zEhw)
8
Karl -
Norice the "laser guided conventional munition" part of the description.
I guess you're wrong again.
From "StrategyPage":
The Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-2
bomb is designed to penetrate hardened targets before exploding, capable of penetrating 100 feet of earth or 20 feet of concrete. The GBU-28 was initially developed in 1991 for penetrating hardened Iraqi command centers located deep underground. This "bunker buster" was required for special targets during the Desert Storm conflict and was designed, fabricated and loaded in record time. The GBU-28 is a laser-guided conventional munition that uses a modified Army artillery tube as the bomb body. They are fitted with GBU-27 LGB kits, 14.5 inches in diameter and almost 19 feet long. The operator illuminates a target with a laser designator and then the munition guides to a spot of laser energy reflected from the target.
Posted by: Actual at June 18, 2007 01:03 PM (KoiLh)
9
Karl, most "bunker busters" are not nuclear.
The B61 Mod 11 is the only active U.S. nuclear weapon I'm aware of designed to be a bunker buster. The overwhelming majority are more-or-less conventional weapons with hardened penetrator warheads, such as the BLU-109, BLU-113, and the BLU-116.
The BLU-118 themobaric weapon is a bunker-buster of a different stripe, and interestingly enough, I met a man who claims to be the Air Force ordnance tech who built the only one ever used, on a cave full of al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in Gardez Afghanistan, on March 3, 2002.
Once again, most bunker busters anre't nukes, there are several non-nuke types of bunker busters, and perhaps as important, both we and our allies are thought to have hundreds stockpiled.
Posted by: Confederaet Yankee at June 18, 2007 01:06 PM (9y6qg)
10
live and LEARN
my mistake then
Posted by: Karl at June 18, 2007 04:08 PM (5zEhw)
11
The place was already pre-wrecked when we got there. There would be nothing left to bother nuking.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 18, 2007 07:01 PM (9yWTK)
12
I'm sure it was hilarious to all his "America is a bunch of A-holes" buddies.
Cripes, the minute one of our allies steps off the res, you guys throw them under the bus. This is
Great Britain, remember? They're the ones who
went along with Iraq.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 18, 2007 09:00 PM (ARfqN)
13
Doc, you are right, Great Britain is our ally, not Meyer or his "America is a bunch of a-holes" buddies. But I don't see K-Det throwing Great Britain under the bus.
Posted by: Dusty at June 18, 2007 09:43 PM (GJLeQ)
14
I deeply respect Great Britain's commitment to the war on terror and to the mutual protection of the US and the UK. I also however, have many British friends from since childhood (I went to an international high school in Europe, being American was like being a mathlete or something) - and I've been hearing anti-american sentiment, whether in jest, serious, or a mixture of both from Britons as much as anyone else. So I have "America is a bunch of a-holes" friends myself... they exist.
P.S. I hope my term doesn't survive much longer, it takes way too much time to write.
Posted by: K-Det at June 19, 2007 12:41 AM (aaP7C)
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June 15, 2007
Liberal Senators Seek To Equate .50 BMG Rifles To Poison Gas, Grenades, Mines
If ever there has been a bill introduced in Congress to ban something based completely on fear and in the complete absence of any actual problem, S.1331, the so-called "Long-Range Sniper Rifle Safety Act of 2007" may be a perfect example.
The bill, introduced to the Senate on May 8 by Dianne Feinstein and co-sponsored by Senators Kennedy, Levin, Menendez, Mikulski, Clinton, Durbin, Boxer, Lautenberg, Shumer and Dodd (Democrats all), seeks to classify all firearms chambered for .50 BMG and similar calibers as "destructive devices" under the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the National Firearms Act of 1934.
Presently, the "destructive device" ban in both laws refers to poison gas, bombs, grenades, rockets, missiles, and mines.
These Senators are attempting to equate large caliber target rifles with poison gas and bombs under the law. Why?
Fear and Ignorance:
U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), today introduced legislation to regulate the transfer and possession of .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles, which have extraordinary firepower and range (more than a mile with accuracy, with a maximum distance of up to four miles). These combat-style weapons are capable of bringing down airliners and helicopters that are taking off or landing, puncturing pressurized chemical storage facilities, and penetrating light armored personnel vehicles and protective limousines.
[snip]
"These are combat-style weapons designed to kill people efficiently and destroy machinery at a great distance. This legislation would regulate these dangerous combat weapons, making it harder for terrorists and others to buy them for illegitimate use," Senator Feinstein said. "This legislation doesn't ban any firearms; it would only institute common-sense regulations for the sale of these dangerous sniper rifles."
Capable of bringing down airliners and helicopters? A .50 BMG rifle must make huge holes in aircraft to do that, wouldn't you think?
Not so much.
Thi is the rough difference between the diameter of a .50-caliber bullet (left) and the extremely common .30-caliber rifle (right).
Now, take into account that a typical .50-caliber rifle is roughly five-feet long weighs around 30 pounds, requiring them to be shot from a bipod or some other sort of support, and virtually all .50-caliber rifles use telescopic sights. Most are also single-shot, bolt-action firearms.
Feinstein and the other Democrat Senators sponsoring this bill are asking you to believe that a terrorist "super-sniper" can somehow heft a 30-pound gun and wingshoot an airliner like a clay pigeon.
The odds of a sniper hitting an airliner moving in three dimensions faster than a NASCAR stock car is infinitesimal; the odds of Feinstien's hypothetical terrorists actually bringing down a plane verge on the impossible.
What of the threat of a terrorist using such a rifle to penetrate a chemical storage tank or rail car?
According to a builder of such pressurized vessels, also virtually impossible:
When asked about the alleged threat of .50cal rifles to his railcars, Mr. Darymple said that they have long tested their cars against almost every form of firearm, to include .50BMG and larger. When asked what happens when a .50 hits one of his tanks he said with a shrug "It bounces off." He went on to point out that railcars are designed to survive the force of derailing, and collision with other railcars at travel speeds. By comparison the impact of a bullet, any bullet, is like a mosquito bite.
It also goes without saying that if terrorists did desire to take down an airliner, or blow up a railcar or chemical storage tank, they are far more likely to acquire smaller, less obtrusive, more accurate, purpose-built or improvised devices already covered under federal law.
So what is the true purpose of the bill, when the stated purposes simply don't make sense?
Only the Senators themselves know for certain, but IÂ’d be willing to bet it comes wrapped in a cloak of fear and ignorance.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Civilians have had .50BMG rifles since the end of WWII. Until '68 we had .55 Boyes and 20mm Lahti as well.
How many crimes have been committed with these weapons?
Less than 10.
Probably less than 5.
I have only been able to verify 2.
In 60 years.
There was no reason but hysteria for listing the Boyes and Lahti as destructive devices in '68 and now they are trying again go the .50BMG.
If they get it, they will be back next year for the Sharps Big 50.
Posted by: GeorgeH at June 15, 2007 04:08 PM (Jkcjv)
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I'm all for the ban!!! (and I thought I'd never get rid of that experimental .49 cal wildcat)
Posted by: Fredrick at June 15, 2007 09:16 PM (TcNVg)
3
It really makes one wonder if all the pompas
do nothings from Bush on down have lost their
collective minds or they just want to feel good.
Hey guys we got something done..."BFD".They can't
fix the boarder or help the troops in the sand
box but we can get rid of those nasty big guns..
But then a person with some Ammonium nitrate,some
model airplane fuel and a cell phone can do a
lot more damage...
Posted by: Tincan Sailor at June 16, 2007 11:01 AM (L4HGI)
4
"The bill, introduced to the Senate on May 8 by Dianne Feinstein and co-sponsored by Senators Kennedy, Levin, Menendez, Mikulski, Clinton, Durbin, Boxer, Lautenberg, Shumer and Dodd (Democrats all)"
My god, it's the quisling all stars.
This is ridiculous. I can't believe these people get the right to decide that a gun too big, and at the same time you can still buy a gun that bigger. Idiots.
Posted by: jbiccum at June 16, 2007 03:19 PM (Rd4s4)
5
The largest pumpkin cannons have a range over a mile.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 16, 2007 04:57 PM (jnC6a)
6
Meh. Most murderers won't be able to get their hands on a .50 rifle, it's damn expensive. Plus, it's hard to set up, and you can't be standing up with it.
Hell, you can fire the .477(?) T-Rex standing up, but it'll fly out of your hands and it's really, really loud.
I don't think that stupid gangbangers from LA or sicko mass murderers will get their hands on the .50. If Congress would just ban weapons from high-crime areas (like Los Angeles, New York City, anywhere with a high crime rate), there'd be a lot less murders. San Fran (despite the moonbats) banned weapons, and not a lot of chavs reside in San Fran anyway.
Posted by: the_velociraptor at June 16, 2007 06:02 PM (DqYja)
7
If Congress would just ban weapons from high-crime areas
Ummm, felons are already banned from owning firearms.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 16, 2007 10:19 PM (jnC6a)
8
More information on your SenatorsÂ’ and House Representatives voting record on gun issues of can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote.php?type=get_years&state_id=NA&search_1=37
For more information http://www.vote-smart.org or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.
Posted by: Project Vote Smart at June 18, 2007 05:09 PM (Z+KDc)
9
Avenger, too many felons in LA still get their hands on weapons and make LA a shitter place to live, and duh, through illegal means, they get the weapons.
What I was saying, people could stop bitching about how the Swiss and Canada own guns, yet don't kill each other, if the US would crack down on illegal dealers.
Posted by: the_velociraptor at June 20, 2007 12:12 AM (DqYja)
10
What they should really do is introduce a bill to outlaw birds. These foul creatures have been hitting and downing aircraft as far back as 1905 when Orville was flying around:
"Â… flew 4,751 meters in 4 minutes 45 seconds, four complete circles. Twice passed over fence into Beard's cornfield. Chased flock of birds for two rounds and killed one which fell on top of the upper surface and after a time fell off when swinging a sharp curve." -Orville Wright Diary, 1905
Since 1988, bird strikes have resulted in 195 deaths and costs the aviation industry around $600 million annually.
Posted by: Dan Irving at June 20, 2007 01:20 PM (zw8QA)
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Hurry, Before This Land is Completely Sold Out!
For Sale: Prairie Chapel Ranch. 1583 acres, just seven miles northwest of beautiful Crawford, Texas. Seven scenic canyons dot the landscape, and water-lovers will enjoy three miles of frontage along Rainey Creek and the Middle Bosque River. Nature lovers will thrive in the wide open spaces.
The main house is a unique 4,000 sq/ft energy efficient limestone ranch encircled by a impressive ten-foot wide wrap-around porch. Additional quarters include guest houses and Secret Service barracks. Property includes a stocked 11-acre bass pond and large swimming pool. Asking $4,500,000.
Send offers to the email address in the sidebar.
Please note that while the law regards me as an "undocumented owner" of this property, I will graciously accept payment, and I am assured that the present occupant welcomes all "newcomers," regardless of legal contracts or boundary limitations.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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You forgot to mention the newly-available Peace Ranch a mere 5 miles away.
Posted by: Old_dawg at June 15, 2007 02:39 PM (n5oUk)
2
Bob,
This country was sold out to corporate interests years ago.
(as an aside, I've always found it amusing that this 4000 sq. foot home is referred to as anything other than what it is - a multi-million dollar estate.)
Posted by: David Terrenoire at June 15, 2007 03:14 PM (kxecL)
3
It merely shows the hypocrisy of the "champions of the common man" like Edwards, or "defenders of Gaia" like the Goracle.... and supporters like you.
Posted by: SDN at June 16, 2007 12:20 AM (1Qc1i)
4
That was funny as hell, hey can I get a piece of that action?
Posted by: Jaded at June 18, 2007 12:45 PM (0lpqx)
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Reid Attacks Petraeus... Again
Because, of course,
he knows better:
Sen. Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) charged that Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, who took command in Iraq four months ago, "isn't in touch with what's going on in Baghdad." He also indicated that he thinks Petraeus has not been sufficiently open in his testimony to Congress. Noting that Petraeus, who is now on his third tour of duty in Iraq, oversaw the training of Iraqi troops during his second stint there, Reid said: "He told us it was going great; as we've looked back, it didn't go so well."
Bill at INDCJournal (who has been to Iraq), had this to say:
Harry Reid considers himself more "in touch with what's going on in Baghdad" than Petraeus? Beyond the mindblowing, bizarro hubris of such an assertion, this comment is made sinister or incompetent by the fact that Reid misrepresents the meaning of Petraus's comments:
Go to Ardalino's site for the detailed takedown.
Harry Reid, is once again willing to question General Petraeus' honesty because what Petraeus says he is seeing on the ground—in Baghdad, where he is—doesn't match up with what Reid wants to assert, namely, that the "war is lost" and that the "surge has failed."
Reid has staked out his position, and won't back down from it. Some might call that "integrity."
I'd call it "blatant dishonesty," as the last contingent of soldiers arrive for the surge just today.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Questions:
Are the lives of combat soldiers merely political grist for the elitist power mill?
Is it unreasonable to suggest that reid be impeached on the grounds of sedition, or malfeasance? Is there any legal probabitly of this happening (inspite of a castrated congress)??
Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at June 15, 2007 11:21 AM (Cy7OH)
2
Our ancestors were much better at handling this. They would simply "call out" the offending party. I have a visual image of Reid standing in an oak grove with a 50 caliber, single shot weapon aimed at his head while he quakes and tries to pull his similar weapon into position.
The result would satisfy everyones honor and extablish the truth.
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 15, 2007 01:19 PM (G5i3t)
3
Are the lives of combat soldiers merely political grist for the elitist power mill?
There are a few problems with your question. First: "elitist?" Are you telling me that there is
anyone from a more elite stratum of society than the President? In the context of your question, the word has no meaning. There are other words you could insert there, but "elitist" doesn't cut it if you're trying to play the "elitist" side against--what's the opposite?--the "populist" side, and you're counting Mr. Bush among the populists.
Second: the Left asks much the same question, phrased instead as, "Are the lives of combat soldiers merely political grist for the
conservative power mill?"
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 15, 2007 02:06 PM (h9Q8O)
4
When is someone going to bitch slap Reid ?
Posted by: 1sttofight at June 15, 2007 02:25 PM (51r8a)
5
Senator Harry ReidÂ’s voting record on military issues can be found at: http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53320&type=category&category=47&go.x=6&go.y=10
Senator ReidÂ’s ratings from special interest groups on military issues can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53320
For more information on Senator ReidÂ’s position on military issues please visit http://www.vote-smart.org or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.
Posted by: Project Vote Smart at June 15, 2007 03:16 PM (Z+KDc)
6
I was with Harry Reid when he personally put down the Shining Path and captured Carlos the Jackal armed with only a tooth pick.
Harry knows his stuff.
Posted by: Ted Kennedy at June 15, 2007 04:13 PM (T6jJb)
7
Reid and his types need to feel the political branch creak....
Remember this, come election time.
Posted by: LisaV (aka "Talismen - Lady Crusader against jihad") at June 15, 2007 04:40 PM (hosSA)
8
Funny thing is he said this on a conference call with far-left bloggers. Harry Reid has no soul whatsoever. The man disgusts me.
Posted by: jbiccum at June 16, 2007 03:22 PM (Rd4s4)
9
I have a visual image of Reid standing in an oak grove with a 50 caliber, single shot weapon aimed at his head
When is someone going to bitch slap Reid ?
YES!!!
Posted by: Karl at June 16, 2007 10:25 PM (5zEhw)
10
Doc Wishbone:::
Are you telling me that there is anyone from a more elite stratum of society than the President?
W was BORN with the silver spoon,,, BUT
FIGHTER PILOT, RANCHER, BASEBALL
while your ted kennedy sips CHAMPAIN and CAVIAR W runs a CHAINSAW
and you say W is the elite yours is a TWISTED WORLD
Posted by: Karl at June 16, 2007 10:37 PM (5zEhw)
11
"W was BORN with the silver spoon,,, BUT
FIGHTER PILOT, RANCHER, BASEBALL
while your ted kennedy sips CHAMPAIN and CAVIAR W runs a CHAINSAW
and you say W is the elite yours is a TWISTED WORLD"
Oh, that's just hilarious! Honestly, priceless.
You buy that BS?
Posted by: Rafar at June 17, 2007 05:40 PM (KWBb6)
12
"W was BORN with the silver spoon,,, BUT
FIGHTER PILOT, RANCHER, BASEBALL"
Yes and what a brave fighter pilot he was, wasn't he? When he wasn't out banging secretaries stateside during the war, that is...
And you can't deny his authenticity as a rancher, always clearing that brush for the cameras. Wow, he used a chainsaw. Doesn't get any more authentic than that.
As for baseball, this is the genius who traded Sammy Sosa away for Harold Baines... Nuff said on that.
Posted by: Arbotreeist at June 18, 2007 12:45 AM (N8M1W)
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Soy Bomb
Considering they supplied arms, training and men against us in wars in Korea and Vietnam in the latter half of the last century, I guess we shouldn't be too surprised at reports that China is
arming our enemies today:
New intelligence reveals China is covertly supplying large quantities of small arms and weapons to insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban militia in Afghanistan, through Iran.
U.S. government appeals to China to check some of the arms shipments in advance were met with stonewalling by Beijing, which insisted it knew nothing about the shipments and asked for additional intelligence on the transfers. The ploy has been used in the past by China to hide its arms-proliferation activities from the United States, according to U.S. officials with access to the intelligence reports.
Some arms were sent by aircraft directly from Chinese factories to Afghanistan and included large-caliber sniper rifles, millions of rounds of ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs, as well as other small arms.
The Washington Times reported June 5 that Chinese-made HN-5 anti-aircraft missiles were being used by the Taliban.
According to the officials, the Iranians, in buying the arms, asked Chinese state-run suppliers to expedite the transfers and to remove serial numbers to prevent tracing their origin. China, for its part, offered to transport the weapons in order to prevent the weapons from being interdicted.
The weapons were described as "late-model" arms that have not been seen in the field before and were not left over from Saddam Hussein's rule in Iraq.
U.S. Army specialists suspect the weapons were transferred within the past three months.
As bad as it is, that China is working with Iran to supply weapons to our enemies isn't the worst part of the story.
This is.
The Bush administration has been trying to hide or downplay the intelligence reports to protect its pro-business policies toward China, and to continue to claim that China is helping the United States in the war on terrorism. U.S. officials have openly criticized Iran for the arms transfers but so far there has been no mention that China is a main supplier.
I want to be very careful and not jump to conclusions here, but it seems that Gertz is making the claim that the Bush administration is trying to cover-up the Chinese sale and transfer of weapons used to target American and allied soldiers at the behest of American companies doing business with the Chinese.
If this claim can be substantiated...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I hope that the term, "large caliber sniper rifles" is raising a red flag on this report. What exactly makes a sniper rifle 'large caliber'? Is it something along the lines the same thing that makes a magazine 'high capacity'? A Dragunov Sniper Rifle uses a 7.62 mm round. Is it safe to say that this is a 'standard caliber' for a sniper rifle? Do the Chinese even make a 'high caliber' sniper rifle?
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at June 15, 2007 09:55 AM (oC8nQ)
2
"The Bush administration has been trying to hide or downplay the intelligence reports to protect its pro-business policies toward China, and to continue to claim that China is helping the United States in the war on terrorism. U.S. officials have openly criticized Iran for the arms transfers but so far there has been no mention that China is a main supplier."
Surely the US government wouldn't be feeding incomplete or misleading stories to reporters in order to promote their foreign policy...
Such a thing is beyond comprehension.
Also, such complaints would hold more weight if every government didn't do the exact same thing given half a chance. Everyone loves a nice proxy war. You get someone else to do the dying, tying up your opponent's forces doing the killing, while you make oodles of cash selling as many sides as many arms as you can get away with.
And hell, when they hold enough of your dollars to crash the world economy (not that they will deliberately) you don't want to go straining things, do you?
Posted by: Rafar at June 15, 2007 10:17 AM (kkgmI)
3
I'm thinking those Kilos the PRC has could develop some fatal mechanical problems and sink.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 15, 2007 04:16 PM (T6jJb)
4
"I'm thinking those Kilos the PRC has could develop some fatal mechanical problems and sink."
Yes, that would certainly be a blatant act of war against a nuclear power who hold the power to crush your economy in its hand.
Nice plan.
Posted by: Rafar at June 17, 2007 05:38 PM (KWBb6)
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June 14, 2007
Reid Betrays the Selective Memory-Based Community
At Daily Kos, "BarbinMD" went to bat this afternoon for an embattled
Harry Reid:
Since its inception a few short months ago, Politico, the online soul-mate to the Drudge Report, has gotten into the habit of creating news stories through innuendo, omission, outright error, and now today, out of thin air.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "incompetent" during an interview Tuesday with a group of liberal bloggers, a comment that was never reported.
Reid made similar disparaging remarks about Army Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said several sources familiar with the interview.
Of course the reason this comment was never reported is quite simple: the bloggers on the call don't remember this quote. I, along with mcjoan and Kagro X, participated in that conference call and none of us heard Reid say it. And of the four other bloggers who were there, Joe and John from AMERICAblog and Jonathon Singer, have no recollection of it.
Please make note: according to this Kos frontpager, she and two other prominent Daily Kos bloggers never heard Harry Reid call General Pace "incompetent," and of the other four bloggers on the call, the two representing Americablog, and one from MyDD, didn't recall anything, either. "Ain't nobody heard nothin,'" as it were, from six of the seven highly respected liberal bloggers on the conference call with the Democrat Senate Majority Leader. But don't question their integrity.
The last man standing, Bob Geiger, recalled things a bit differently, but still attempted a fanboy's "I don't think that word means what you think it means" defense of Reid:
Here's exactly what Reid said:
"I guess the president, uh, he's gotten rid of Pace because he could not get him confirmed here in the SenateÂ… Pace is also a yes-man for the president and I told him to his face, I laid it out to him last time he came to see me, I told him what an incompetent man I thought he was."
So, did Reid utter the word "incompetent" in the same sentence with General Pace's name on the conference call? Yes, he did.
Geiger then went on to make a pathetic attempt to wrangle Reid's mangled syntax into an attack on President Bush instead of Pace.
The seven liberal bloggers on the conference call with Harry Reid either suffered from a convenient form of group amnesia, or from the inability to honestly parse the English language, but perhaps what was important from their perspective is that they rallied together for Harry with strongly-worded claims of "I can't recall," and "I don't remember," and "It depends on what the definition of the word 'is,' is."
But sometimes irony and justice come hand in hand, and Harry Reid soon did to these radical anti-war bloggers what they are collectively trying to do to the American military and the Iraqi people: he cut and ran:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid confirmed Thursday that he told liberal bloggers last week that he thinks outgoing Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Peter Pace is "incompetent."
Reid also disparaged Army Gen. David Petraeus, head of Multinational Forces in Iraq.
But Reid, whose comments to bloggers first appeared in The Politico, also told reporters: "I think we should just drop it."
For the Selective Memory-Based Community, Reid's betrayal must have been awful.
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Let's remember Gates fired Pace, not Reid. We now have a War Czar, SecDef and an incoming Chair of the Joint Chiefs who are all skeptical of the surge.
What does that tell ya?
Posted by: markg8 at June 14, 2007 11:12 PM (7xxF4)
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That's silly--it's not as if Gates could fire Reid even if he wanted to. The surge itself is still being executed, as the full number of combat troops are still being added into the mix. What it does tell me is that there is no silver bullet for Iraq--if the surge is successful, there will still be a measure of internal chaos to deal with, as well as external agents (like Iran) that are helping to foment said chaos.
Posted by: Nathan Tabor at June 15, 2007 12:43 AM (HQYcw)
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As Gen. Petraeus has said before - The Surge™ - in an of itself, will not fix the problems of Iraq. Will it enable central Iraq to be a bit more stable? Yes. Will it enable former insurgent groups to fall in line (ala 'Sunni Awakening' councils)? Yes. Is it allowing those Iraqi who want peace and stability a better chance at 'standing up'? Yes.
There is still a long way to go. Tribal and social customs prevent an immediate turnaround. It took Germany, Japan and S. Korea 40 years to develop into thriving democratic societies where freedom and equality under Rule of Law hold sway. In addition there are many powers in the area that want Iraq to fail. It's in Saudi Arabia and Iran's best interest since thriving democracies tend to make despotic regimes look bad.
Posted by: Dan Irving at June 15, 2007 09:39 AM (zw8QA)
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So the Kos Kidz accuse the Politico of lying. They claim that they, not one of them, heard the quote and when it turns out that the Politico's story was accurate and BarbinMD flatly denied it: grudging update with caveats. No apology, even in the comments. No indication of contrition for a rush and a mistaken statement.
Which website is staffed with liars? Who is incompetent, if not one of
three separate hand-picked citizen journalists even registered the words that would assuredly be red meat to their base? Why should anyone believe them, if they didn't have their hearing-aids plugged in?
1st deaf blogger: happenstance.
2nd deaf blogger: coincedence.
3rd deaf blogger: concerted lies from an agency organized against reporting or even acknowledging the truth.
Posted by: Uncle Pinky at June 15, 2007 08:03 PM (2eQlr)
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"For the Selective Memory-Based Community, Reid's betrayal must have been awful."
Well, maybe, but they won't remember it for long.
Posted by: George Bruce at June 20, 2007 01:33 PM (tj2NC)
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"The Army strives for a "rule of threes": for every combat unit on a mission, a second is recovering and a third is preparing. But today, more than half the Army's fighting units are deployed abroadÂ…
Â…Deep inside the Pentagon...a nightmare scenario hangs in the air, unmentioned but unmistakable. With 140,000 U.S. troops tied down stabilizing Iraq, 34,000 in Kuwait, 10,000 in Afghanistan and 5,000 in the Balkans, what good options would George W. Bush have if, say sometime next spring, North KoreaÂ’s Kim Jong Il decided to test the resilience of the relatively small "trip-wire" force of 37,000 American troops in South KoreaÂ…
…America’s military has been shrinking for the past 35 years...All four services have been cut in strength, and leaders of both parties have overseen this decline. President Bush's father reduced the number of Army divisions from 18 to 14; Bill Clinton cut it further, to 10...The Bush team's vision for the U.S. Army involved making it learner, faster, more efficient and more open to change…" – TIME ‘03.
The impression I had was that the surge amounted to 30,000 more troops. However, I think that means all troops and not just "combat” troops. I have heard before that if the military has around 1,000,000 people, somewhere around 1/2 are support personnel. So, if there are only 500,000 "combat" troops and they are supposed to have an equal amount at home to rest and recuperate as they do at war, plus taking into consideration the other commitments such as Korea and Japan, etc., you have a better idea of what is really being asked of the troops:
"Inside a fortified conference room, through the prism of U.S. and Iraqi
military officials, a security plan to pacify the country was working on
WednesdayÂ…Outside, extremists blew up mosques, lobbed mortars into Baghdad's heavily protected Green Zone, and generated a steady drumbeat of violence." The Kansas City Star - 6-21-07.
Conditions in Iraq will not improve sufficiently by September to justify a
drawdown of U.S. military forces, the top U.S. commander in Iraq said Sunday. Asked whether he thought the job assigned to an additional 30,000 troops deployed as the centerpiece of President Bush's new war strategy would be completed by then, Gen. David Petraeus replied, "I do not, no. I think that we have a lot of heavy lifting to do." The Kansas City Star - 6-18-07.
"In Washington, Pentagon officials urged patience...But Pentagon planners
privately expressed concern. 'We don't have enough troops,' one said. 'It would take another 100,000' to properly protect Baghdad."
(That day there was an inset saying the troops would get extra days off in lieu of extra pay for the extra deployments. I guess times are tough all over.) The Kansas City Star - 4-19-07.
"Last summer the U.S. military in Iraq, led by Gen. George Casey...increased the U.S. forces patrolling Baghdad's neighborhoods by 3,700, to a total of more than 15,000...The current surge was to be different. U.S. forces in Baghdad were to increase by at least 17,000, bringing the total U.S. force in Baghdad to more than 30,000. The troops were to work alongside 30,000 Iraqi army and national police forces and 21,000 policemen...That hasn't happened as rapidly as U.S. commanders had hoped..." The Kansas City Star – 6-09-07.
"Most Iraqi military units arriving in Baghdad...have only 75% of their assigned soldiers...About one in six Iraqi policemen trained by U.S. forces has been killed or wounded, has deserted or has just disappeared..."
The Kansas City Star – 6-14-07.
Posted by: incognito at June 22, 2007 06:45 PM (vAWqE)
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Guns and Madness
I'm assuming that many of you saw that the House of Representatives passed an NRA-supported gun control bill yesterday that aimed to close some dangerous loopholes, requiring states to more quickly and fully provide information to check the criminal and mental health records of potential gun buyers.
Congressional Quarterly reports that the bill faces an uncertain future in the Senate, due in part to resistance by Gun Owners of America and unidentified mental health advocacy groups.
As someone who uses the FBIÂ’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to check the status of potential gun purchasers, I have reservations about the proposed changes, even though I strongly believe that neither felons nor the mentally ill should have access to firearms. Actually, it is my concern over the mentally ill potentially accessing firearms that has me worried.
One provision of the bill that was described thusly:
The senator suggested earlier this week that he was pleased with negotiated language that would explicitly protect the ability of veterans designated as having psychological conditions, such as post-traumatic stress disorder, to buy guns. The measure would also authorize procedures that would allow those successfully treated for mental illness to regain the ability to buy guns.
I'm neither a psychologist nor a psychiatrist, and I do not have anything beyond a layman's understanding of how the human psyche is damaged nor healed. Frankly, based upon what I've seen of people who have been to psychologists and psychiatrists, I'm none to certain that the experts have any idea, either.
For this reason, I'm extremely leery about how they might determine whether someone who was once determined to be mentally ill is now "cured."
My secondary concern deals with reality and the law of unintended consequences.
While a NICS background check is an important tool in sorting out those who should not be allowed to purchase firearms, it is simply one tool based upon documented information.
In my opinion—and I believe that I share this opinion with many who sell firearms on the retail level—one of the best tools to determine whether someone should be allowed to purchase a firearm is an employee trained to look for certain "red flag" characteristics in a buyer. For every high-profile killer like Seung-Hui Cho, there are many potential purchasers without a criminal or mental record who should not be allowed to purchase firearms for other, less technical but still reasonable concerns.
I have, on more than one occasion, turned down a transaction after a NICS background check came back allowing the sale to proceed simply because something "wasn't quite right" about the purchaser. Displayed maturity, firearms safety, certain mannerisms, personality traits, or other suspicious behavior can all be reasons to deny a sale that a database simply cannot account for.
Some gun sellers may become too over-reliant upon the more powerful proposed NICS system, and may forego some of the "human checks" as a result, while we at the same time rely on a less-than-precise mental health system to determine when someone is "cured" and once more able to purchase a firearm.
Somehow, I don't think this bill will change much.
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CY:
If a firearms seller has refused to deal with someone because something seems indefinably off, does the law as written allow him to take further steps to keep the person from buying elsewhere?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 14, 2007 05:05 PM (Q/FFk)
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There isn't anything legally that I'm aware of to do that, and I don't know if it is even possible to codify something being "off," as that is a subjective and impossible to define matter of judgement.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 14, 2007 05:09 PM (HcgFD)
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I'd be very leery of this because what is mental illness? Could it be someone guilty of a hate crime for instance? Or alleged spousal abuse or even sexual harassment? My guess is that mental illness will soon encompass smoker, drinkers, the over weight, rgistered GOP voters, white guys, christians (you have to b mental to believe in God), etc.
Posted by: Thomas Jackson at June 14, 2007 10:04 PM (A2ZNt)
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But what about actual mental illness, TJ? It exists. It can make people dangerous. Certainly you don't want these folks to have guns, as well.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 14, 2007 10:40 PM (Q/FFk)
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but we would not want retail salesmen, even firearm salesmen, to decide if someone is mentally ill. I think that could lead to serious abuse, even if it might catch folks in special cases.
Posted by: iconoclast at June 14, 2007 11:25 PM (TzLpv)
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I heard about this while I was driving around on Tuesday-- apparently, the actual text says that they have to be found not to have a mental problem.
In the military, at least the Navy, if someone tells a superior that I seem to be showing signs of a mental problem, they're required to put me under servelence and enter that in my record.
That notation was put in because a lot of vets were automatically monitored for mental illness simply because they were in a combat zone-- if they saw firefight or not.
Posted by: Foxfier at June 15, 2007 12:18 AM (fMX2K)
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The mandatory quarterly update of status should be a relief to those guys who've had bogus restraining orders slapped on them by psycho women.
Ignore the news stories - read the actual bill. I really didn't see anything in it to complain about.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 15, 2007 03:53 AM (COAGI)
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but we would not want retail salesmen, even firearm salesmen, to decide if someone is mentally ill.
And what precisely do you think happens under the current system? Gun sellers have always been asked to use their judgement when determining whether or not to sell a firearm to a potential customer.
Do you honestly think a database in a far-off state is better equipped to judge a potential buyer's basic compentence, obvious stability, or possible alcohol or drug intoxication than an actual person three feet away?
Let me provide some real-world examples.
I had a guy come in and ask to see a firearm when I could smell the alcohol on him. A database wouldn't pick that up.
I've turned away a potential buyer because he seemed very agitated and angry when he came in to buy a shotgun. Who you rather I armed someone in this apparent state?
I've turned away another man because he asked point blank if a certain rifle was capable of killing a person from far away. Again, would you rather I sold this man the rifle?
A father and teen-aged son have made repeated trips to our establishment over the past year. They are so grossly (almost comically) incompent and unsafe in their handling of firearms that every employee who has dealt with them feels they would be a hazard to themselves and others if armed.
Once, the father actually pulled the muzzle towards his eye to look down the barrel while the son has his hand on the grip. Thank God we have trigger locks on all our display guns.
To date, I know one employee who has gently suggested that they take a firearms safety course before considering a purchase, which they blew off in a huff. They have done a lot of looking, but haven't tried to make a purchase. We've decided that until display more compentence and safety, we will not sell to them. To arm them would probably be criminally negligent, and is certainly morally so.
We are not asked to make a clinical diagnosis, but we are required morally and legally to refrain from selling firearms to those individual that we judge to be potentially dangerous, unstable, or impaired.
Had you been on hand to witness any of the examples cited above (and I'm certain other dealers have far more extreme examples), you probably would have judged us as mentally defective had we allowed the sale... unless, of course, you think we should trust a database somewhere instead of our own eyes, and sell firearms to homicidally-curious, agitated, unstable, or obviously intoxicated individuals.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 15, 2007 07:54 AM (9y6qg)
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I can answer your concern for the ability of "mental health experts" to certify that someone is "cured". If you would consider that just about anything regarding mental health is as close to voodoo as you can get, then you are on the mark. Despite over 100 years of observation and attempted treatment with the introduction of numerous psycho active drugs, the knowledge and treatment of mental health issures in still in the stone age. Often, the people who are professionals in this group of physicians are worse off than their patients. So when they say they are well treated, lock up the guns, close the store and barracade the door.
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 15, 2007 09:25 AM (G5i3t)
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As a psychiatrist I would echo your concerns over allowing the seriously and persistantly mentally ill to buy firearms. I am also skeptical of "cures" in psychiatry, with the possible exception of some simple phobias and minor depressive syndromes. I think the best advise is the one you gave - for clerks to be vigilent in their gut level assessment of potential buyers. To rely simply on a database to tell us what to do is foolhardy and would result in guns being sold to people who should never have them. As to Dr Caskey, the brain is a wonderfully complex organ and is far from being understood, but that does not mean we have made no progress and are merely modern day witchdoctors. To be involved in treating the mentally ill you have to be comfortable with a high degree of uncertainty as the medical knowledge base is simply not there to provide a high degree of certainty. Even in the area of a "simple" electromechanical pump such as the heart, our knowledge base continues to grow and treatments are improved.
Posted by: sy at June 15, 2007 12:09 PM (hr/Ar)
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sy: PSYCHIATRY is partially a science but PSYCHOLOGY is NOT
theres no agreement on if many psychological disorders EXIST like asperger, passive/aggressive, dislexya &etc
there are good tests for some like SOCIOPATH but these are notoreously hard to apply!
disorders are REDEFINED every year
psychology == NO PREDICTIVE POWER
Posted by: Karl at June 15, 2007 02:26 PM (5zEhw)
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PSYCHIATRY is partially a science but PSYCHOLOGY is NOT psychology == NO PREDICTIVE POWER
Thank you, Tom Cruise. Try not to jump on the couch, okay?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 15, 2007 10:04 PM (h9Q8O)
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Too Little, Too Late
Via
Fox News
President Mahmoud Abbas will dissolve the Palestinian Authority's government Thursday after fighting between rival parties Hamas and Fatah consumed the Gaza Strip and was expected to call for a state of emergency, sources close to Abbas confirmed to FOX News.
Hamas fighters took control from two of the rival Fatah movement's most important security command centers in the Gaza Strip, and witnesses said the victors dragged vanquished gunmen into the street and shot them to death execution-style.
Now he's expected to call a state of emergency?
This is kind of like jotting a note to requisition more lifejackets after you've hit the iceberg and the ship's already gone down.
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The Declining Media Influence of the Association of Muslim Scholars
Formerly a staple of reports in the Associated Press and other news organizations, the credibility of the Iraqi group known as the Association of Muslims Scholars (also known as the Muslim Scholars Association) seems to have fallen on hard times.
The al-Qaeda-aligned group's credibility may have begun to diminish when it claimed that 18 people died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque in Hurriyah, Baghdad, as part of a highly-disputed series of AP stories claiming that up to 24 people died and four mosques were "burned and blew up" on November 24, 2006. A photo taken the next day from inside the mosque rebutted that claim.
The Associated Press again used the Association of Muslim Scholars as a source for a dubious account on April 10, 2007, as the AMS made the following inflammatory charge:
The Muslim Scholars Association, a Sunni group, issued a statement quoting witnesses as saying Tuesday's battle began after Iraqi troops entered a mosque and executed two young men in front of other worshippers. Ground forces used tear gas on civilians, it said.
These charges were never substantiated.
I asked at the time, "Why does the Associated Press continue to use an organization with an obvious political agenda, ties to al Qaeda, and a documented history of providing false information as a source?"
Apparently, someone at the major media organizations had similar misgivings about the credibility of the Association of Muslim Scholars at roughly that time, or shortly thereafter.
A Google News search for "Association of Muslim Scholars" and a search for "Muslim Scholars Association show that no prominent news organizations have used the AMS as a source for over a month, even as links from lesser news sources (primarily blogs) show that the organization are still issuing press releases.
Apparently, it only took four years of publishing the propaganda of the AMS as news for the professional media to finally realize they were being had.
How encouraging.
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These guys give Islam a bad name...
Posted by: the_velociraptor at June 20, 2007 12:15 AM (DqYja)
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Silky Pony's New Plan to Tax You to Pay Pharmaceutical Companies and Raise Insurance Costs
This idea seems ever bit as dim as his plan to rely on a re-branded Peace Corps to fight terrorism.
Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards wants to reduce the cost of U.S. health care by removing patents for breakthrough drugs and requiring health insurance companies to spend at least 85 percent of their premiums on patient care.
The former North Carolina senator was expected to discuss details of a universal health care proposal he released in February during an appearance Thursday at the Riverside Health Center.
Edwards' plan would remove long-term patents for companies that develop breakthrough drugs and then reap large profits because of the monopolies those patents provide, according to a statement by Edwards obtained Wednesday evening.
Edwards said offering cash incentives instead would allow multiple companies to produce those drugs and drive down prices.
By reducing pharmaceutical companies ability to make a profit from patented drugs, Edwards would be encouraging them to spend less money on researching and developing new cures. After all, these are drug companies, and companies exist to make a profit. Why would companies spend time and billions of dollars developing new and more effective drugs, when Edwards is going to strip away their ability to recoup development costs and turn a profit by forcing these new drugs to become generic by stripping away patents?
But he already has a solution.
Edwards promises to pay companies to keep developing new drugs with "cash incentives." We all know where these incentives would come from. To make good on his promise, Edwards will foist new taxes upon the American taxpayer.
As a result, the cost of new drugs won't actually go down, you'll just be paying from them whether you need them, or not, through your federal taxes.
The other part of Edward's "brilliant" health care plan is to force insurers to spend 85% of their premiums on patient care. this sounds great, until once again economics comes into play. Insurers are in business to make money, and if they can't within the framework you're paying for now, you can expect the premium costs to skyrocket until that 15% is large enough to cover their operating costs and keep their shareholders happy.
I don't know whom the Edwards campaign keeps paying to come up with these hare-brained schemes, but they are obviously paying them far too much.
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This sounds great. If Edwards were elected, I would immediately short all of the companies as they would nose dive. All drug companies would move off shore and research into new drugs would stop (even with government assistance, I have seen it happen). With this type of health care, the quality would disappear. This would then solve the golbal warming problem as we would have a shrinking population and thus less CO2.
Posted by: David Caskey,MD at June 14, 2007 11:24 AM (G5i3t)
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"Democratic ... "
'Nuff said, huh? Will they ever get around to getting rid of the misnomer "Democratic Party" and rename themselves the "Socialist Party?" They're all socialists and proud of it, so what do they have to fear from the truth? Or should we all just accept the fact that the use of the term "Democrat" is an example of Newspeak?
Posted by: DoorHold at June 14, 2007 11:44 AM (c1wdm)
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John EdwardsÂ’s voting record on health issues can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=21107&type=category&category=38&go.x=12&go.y=10
John EdwardsÂ’s history of speeches on health care can be found at: http://votesmart.org/speech.php?keyword=health+care&daterange=&begin=&end=&phrase=&contain=&without=&type=search&can_id=21107&go2.x=0&go2.y=0#Results
John EdwardsÂ’s ratings from special interest groups on health issues can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=21107
Project Vote Smart produces the National Political Awareness Test (NPAT), which essentially asks each candidate “Are you willing to tell citizens your positions on the issues you will most likely face on their behalf?” You can find John Edwards’s responses to the NPAT at: http://vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=21107#838
For more information on John EdwardsÂ’s position on health issues please visit http://www.vote-smart.org Project Vote Smart or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.
Posted by: Project Vote Smart at June 14, 2007 03:38 PM (Z+KDc)
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The Seditious Senator Reid
Comfortable among his own kind, Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has dropped all pretenses of the insincere "...but we support the troops" mantra utterly by the far left,
the Politico reports:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "incompetent" during an interview Tuesday with a group of liberal bloggers, a comment that was never reported.
Reid made similar disparaging remarks about Army Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said several sources familiar with the interview.
This is but the latest example of how Reid, under pressure from liberal activists to do more to stop the war, is going on the attack against President Bush and his military leaders in anticipation of a September showdown to end U.S. involvement in Iraq, according to Democratic senators and aides.
The report of Reid's attacks on key military commanders comes one day after Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi sent a letter to President Bush claiming that the "surge" in Iraq has failed, just weeks after claiming they would wait until September to evaluate the success of the surge, and despite widespread and growing Sunni uprisings against al Qaeda in al Anbar and Diyala provinces, in Baghdad's Sunni-dominated Amiriyah district, and elsewhere.
According to U.S. Code, Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 115 > § 2387 Activities affecting armed forces generally:
(a) Whoever, with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States:
(1) advises, counsels, urges, or in any manner causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States; or
(2) distributes or attempts to distribute any written or printed matter which advises, counsels, or urges insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
(b) For the purposes of this section, the term “military or naval forces of the United States” includes the Army of the United States, the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Naval Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, and Coast Guard Reserve of the United States; and, when any merchant vessel is commissioned in the Navy or is in the service of the Army or the Navy, includes the master, officers, and crew of such vessel.
Marine General Peter Pace is still the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and an active duty officer and leader in the United States military. U.S. Army General David Petraeus is the Commanding General of Multi-National Force - Iraq (MNF-I), in command of all U.S Army, Marine, Navy and Air Force military units in Iraq. Petraeus was confirmed to that position confirmed to that position by the Senate in an 81-0 vote less than five months ago on January 26, 2007.
Senator Harry Reid, please explain to us how your apparent utterances calling serving generals "incompetent" while they are engaged in command duties as general officers of the United States during wartime does not amount to interfering with, impairing, or attempting to influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States.
You'll note, Senator Reid, that Chapter 15 of U.S. Code covers "Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities," and I find it very hard for you to argue—though you and your supporters certainly will—that words uttered against the competence of active duty commanding generals during wartime does not amount to an attempt to "interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States." Your offense, coming from your position of United States Senate Majority Leader, is particularly egregious when it is considered that these comments are directed to a group of opinionmakers that claim to hold such sway over Democrat Party politics.
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Probably just a co-incidence that Pelosi now wants the Pentagon to provide free-rides for the CHILDREN of Congresscritters who are taking "important" trips.
Posted by: dad29 at June 14, 2007 09:18 AM (4mmzL)
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"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Posted by: blank at June 14, 2007 09:47 AM (NV0dI)
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The First Amendment has
never been construed as allowing treasonous or seditious speech.
Make your argument based upon whether or not Reid technically violated the cited U.S law against unmining U.S. forces (he certainly seems to have violated the spirit of the law), but to attempt to imply that any and all treasonous or seditious speech is somehow given blanket protection is ridiculous.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 14, 2007 09:58 AM (9y6qg)
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"You'll note, Senator Reid, that Chapter 15 of U.S. Code covers "Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities," and I find it very hard for you to argue—though you and your supporters certainly will—that words uttered against the competence of active duty commanding generals during wartime does not amount to an attempt to "interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States.""
While I carry no bag for democrats, I'd point out that the argument is pretty simple.
Criticism of incompetent officers is intended to enhance the ability of the military to perform well. Acting to improve the performance of the military is a requirement for the US government. In no way is this criticism intended to impair loyalty or morale, it is intended to improve performance. It is hard to argue that trying to improve the performance of the US military is treasonous.
Posted by: Rafar at June 14, 2007 10:18 AM (kkgmI)
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You'll have a hard time showing that an American could go to jail because they call a government employee incompetent. To the extent that the law limits free expression, it is invalid.
To the extent the law might apply, you'll have a hard time here:"with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United State." Reid's will say his intent is to improve the performance of the US forces by criticizing those who are incompetent. Like one normally does when one calls a government employee incompetent.
I don't know what section of the US code defines "seditious" speech. Or even how pure speech can fit the definition of treason. But you will find that the 1st amendment will severely limit how speech can be treason or seditition.
Posted by: blank at June 14, 2007 10:21 AM (NV0dI)
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I have to agree with Rafar - conceptually anyway. That Reids comments do indeed assist the improvement of the military is a hard argument to make. His comments have far more to do with posturing in front of his political base than with assisting the war effort. In his position, if he had real criticism or issue with Petraeus' leadership, he could move or petition for the general to be replaced or speak to the general in person about what he feels needs to change. For him to bad mouth American commanders without due cause or specific issue may not be outright treasonous, but it is certainly neglectful of his responsibility to the country.
Posted by: K-Det at June 14, 2007 10:35 AM (aaP7C)
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ZOMG INSULT TO TROOPS
Quick, activate massive indignation mode from behind keyboard or it will seem like you're not 100% in love with troops and therefore not up solid against the right wing wall!
ONOZ
Posted by: anonymous at June 14, 2007 12:01 PM (Bss6w)
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US Constitution Art. I, sec. 6, clause [1] "and for any speech or debate in either house , they shall not be questioned in any other place"
Though I find Reid's comments reprehensible and do tend to give aid and comfort to Al-Qaeda -- they are waging a media war and seek to sap our will to fight. Reid's comments help that goal.
Posted by: rbj at June 14, 2007 12:24 PM (ybRwv)
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CY, is your argument that people cannot speak out against the progress or execution of the war?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 14, 2007 12:49 PM (Q/FFk)
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Doc:::so you think SEDITION is find and dandy and CONSTITUTIONAL!!! it has been duly noted
Posted by: Karl at June 14, 2007 01:51 PM (5zEhw)
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An interesting comment thread.
If I'm understanding the general sentiment thus far correctly, a significant number of you feel is is fine for Harry Reid to disparage the competence of U.S. commanders. I wonder, does this extend to Reid's comment from several weeks back, where he claimed that if he heard any good news from Iraq, that General Petraeus would be a liar (or words to that effect, questioning his integrity and honesty)?
According to this mindset, disparaging the compentence, honor, integrity, and honesty of our military commanders without cause while they attempt to lead troops at war is perfectly acceptable political discourse, and somehow curiously intended to improve their performance.
For historical context, I'd be interested to know what language was used by another "peace Democrat" during the American Civil War, a former Ohio Congressman, Clement Laird Vallandigham, who was arrested, tried, convicted and expelled from the Union to the Confederacy (the Confederacy subsequently regarded him as an "alien enemy," and deported him to Bermuda) for comments he made about the union during that war. Deported by both sides, Ohio Democrats then brilliantly nominated him for governor in absentia, where he lost in a landslide.
Wikipedia brushed upon the tone of the comments lightly, but doesn't provide details of what Vallandigham said with any precision or context, other than at the speech most proximate to his arrest, he called President Bush Lincoln "Wicked and cruel" for not ending the war.
But Reid was not criticizing the war or the policies of the administration.
He was quite specifically attacking the compentence and capabilities of serving military leaders, attempting to undermine them. Does that not meet the standard of intentionally interfering with, impairing, or influencing the moral of the troops?
I submit that his comments do meet that standard, unless you are willing to argue that Reid is not intelligent enough to know the intention and probable effects of his comments.
I wouldn't predict that Reid is in any danger, however.
Though he is very arguably seditious and is certainly pro-defeat, he will not be prosecuted for his offense, not by this Justice Department. Nor will his fellow Democrats call for him to resign. Hell, the liberal bloggers he was pandering to when he made these comments flatly covered them up.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 14, 2007 02:24 PM (9y6qg)
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"I wouldn't predict that Reid is in any danger, however."
Because its ridiculous that someone would be convicted of a crime for calling a government employee incompetent. Maybe in a dictatorship, but not here.
Posted by: blank at June 14, 2007 02:52 PM (NV0dI)
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Karl:
NOTED, TOO, ARE YOUR CAPITALS, EXCLAMATION POINTS, AND ODD USE OF COLONS:::::!
The difference between what I posted and what you posted should be clear to anyone keeping score at home: you were
telling me what I think, and I was
asking CY to clarify what he thinks.
Telling me what I think and feel is a favorite pastime of wingnuts, who, thankfully, tend to hang out at other sites. On the other hand, the generally conservative but (otherwise) rational crowd that frequents CY has the decency to treat questions as questions unless otherwise indicated.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 14, 2007 03:19 PM (Q/FFk)
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Senator Harry ReidÂ’s voting record on military issues can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53320&type=category&category=47&go.x=16&go.y=7
Senator ReidÂ’s history of speeches on the Iraq war can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/speech.php?keyword=iraq+war&daterange=&begin=&end=&phrase=&contain=&without=&type=search&can_id=53320&go2.x=0&go2.y=0#Results
Senator ReidÂ’s ratings from special interest groups on military issues can be found at: http://vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53320
For more information on Senator ReidÂ’s position on military issues please visit http://www.vote-smart.org or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.
Posted by: Project Vote Smart at June 14, 2007 03:41 PM (Z+KDc)
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 14, 2007 07:13 PM (Q/FFk)
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Read that again, Doc.
Reid's quote about Pace as attributed by Bob Geiger, who was on the call, from the comments at your link:
I guess the president, uh, he's gotten rid of Pace because he could not get him confirmed here in the SenateÂ… Pace is also a yes-man for the president and I told him to his face, I laid it out to him last time he came to see me, I told him what an incompetent man I thought he was."
Perhaps more telling, Reid has not denied this.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 14, 2007 09:09 PM (HcgFD)
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Even better...
Reid admits it.
Keep that in mind the next time you read Greg Sargent, Bob Geiger, John Aravosis and other top liberals bloggers who had denied what Reid said, and wonder what they will lie to you about next.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at June 14, 2007 09:22 PM (HcgFD)
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Here's TPM's take:
We spoke to as many people as we could on the call to see what was actually said. And a number of liberal bloggers on the call told us that they didn't remember Reid saying these things. Now we've finally found someone who taped the call.... So The Politico's John Bresnahan, who wrote the original story, was right; Reid did call Pace incompetent. On the other hand, it was in the context of a discussion of Alberto Gonzales and other administration incompetents, not Iraq. The reference to Pace was an aside -- brought up solely to highlight Bush's loyalty to Gonzales. Reid's focus here wasn't on Pace or the commanders.
In the Fox article, Reid is quoted as saying,
I believe that General Pace would not be if he had come forward to be reappointed the chairman of the Joints Chiefs.
...Which frankly sounds as if English is Reid's second language, but he also made the point that,
I think we should just drop it. The fact is, he's not going to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, for which I'm happy.
So I guess the question that arises here is this: if Pace isn't going to be Chairman, isn't the hypothetical damage of Reid's remarks mitigated? Also: at what point does Reid actually get to say what he thinks? Don't we
want to know his thought process? He is a senator, after all, and his thought process affects how our country is run.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at June 14, 2007 10:56 PM (Q/FFk)
Posted by: David M at June 15, 2007 09:24 AM (4Xncc)
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if Pace isn't going to be Chairman, isn't the hypothetical damage of Reid's remarks mitigated?
Not if congress is involved in confirming his for anything else.
"Hey dude, I'm sorry I burned your car up by mistake!"
"No problem, I was going to abandon it anyway"
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 15, 2007 04:22 PM (T6jJb)
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Gaza Civil War Over Before It Began; Summer Campaign Dominoes Falling Into Place
I wrote on June 5th in a post called
The Sliding War that "...the factions in Gaza are almost in, sliding into, on the brink of, and verging on being in a civil war, but they aren't there quite yet... and have been for over a year."
Now, it appears that the Gaza Civil War may be all but over, even before the media could recognize it.
From today's Jerusalem Post:
Hamas fighters overran Fatah-allied Preventive Security headquarters in Gaza City on Thursday, a key target in their battle to control the entire Gaza Strip, witnesses and a security agency official said.
One witness, Jihad Abu Ayad, said Hamas gunmen were bringing Preventive Security men out of the building and executing them in the street.
The headquarters was the last Fatah stronghold in Gaza City, and Fatah appears to be demoralized and all but collapsing.
If Hamas—an Iranian-supported terrorist organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel—wrests complete control of Gaza, it is indeed an ominous development.
A member of the Syrian Parliment, Mohammad al Habash, has already told al Jazeera that Syria is preparing for a summer war against Israel, and Hezbollah's deputy secretary Sheikh Naim Kassem has already stated that Hezbollah—rearmed by Iran and Syria after last year's battle with Israel in Lebanon—is also preparing for another summer "adventure" with Israel as well.
A map of the region shows why these claims are of such concern.
If the ominous rumblings by Syria and Hezbollah of a summer campaign against Israel are credible, then most if not all of northern Israel could be a potential battleground. If Hamas can consolidate power in Gaza, then they have the possibility of opening a weaker, but still lethal second front in the event of a summer war, diverting or dividing Israeli ground forces.
I strongly doubt that even a combined Syrian, Hamas, and Hezbollah offensive would have any strong chance of success, and hope that whatever their endgame strategy is, they realize that as well.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:45 AM
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Post contains 358 words, total size 3 kb.
1
We need to let Israel off the chain, and allow them to defend themselves...in the manner and timing of their choosing.
Let slip the dogs of war....
Posted by: LisaV (aka "Talismen - Lady Crusader against jihad") at June 14, 2007 09:40 AM (hosSA)
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We have Israel on a chain ???
Posted by: John Ryan at June 14, 2007 11:24 AM (TcoRJ)
Posted by: Bill Faith at June 14, 2007 06:32 PM (n7SaI)
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John Ryan said:
"We have Israel on a chain?"
Yes...we do.
We've had them on a chain, holding them back from defending themselves, for decades. How many times does Iran, Syria, Hizbollah, Hamas and others have to threaten Israel, before they are allowed to take out their enemies?
They are surrounded by those who wish to see them dead. They literally share borders with their enemies, or with countries which house their enemies. Yet, the US has always held them back, telling them "just continue to work for peace".
You cannot have peace with a movement that is fueled by jihadi islam. They do not seek peace....the seek conversion of their enemies, or death of all kafir's.
Posted by: LisaV (aka "Talismen - Lady Crusader against jihad") at June 14, 2007 08:13 PM (jaqG+)
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Lisa V is right: let slip the dogs of war'. I personally think those 'Jihadi Islamists' in the Palestinian Territories should be imprisoned, immediately, within walls of barbed wire and concrete; that their men should be summarily executed; and their women and children gassed; and their bodies cremated in vast ovens. 'They do not seek peace', as Lisa V. explains. For us peace-loving people in the West, this is the only adequate response.
Posted by: Geordie at June 17, 2007 08:04 AM (Iko+q)
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